John Titor - No need to worry?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Unexpecte is hillarious
Wasn't that dealt with like a month ago? Why does (s)he decide to bring this up now?
Anyway, I'm not providing proof against the Titor case, I'm waiting for you and others to provide the evidence for the Titor case. You all keep yapping, but you're not providing any proof. I'm showing you the inaccuracies in the Titor story, it's up to you to prove they're not inaccurate.

EXAMPLE THE FIRST: In a backhanded manner, you are thumbing your nose at Unexpecte, and accusing everyone else of blathering on at the mouth with the word "Yapping", and you are also accusing them of not supplying proof.

Do you define what is proof concerning the topic? If so, I don't want to talk to you.

1. It's Febuary 16, 2005. Iran still hasn't said they're going to convert to Euros. Just wanted to point that out.

I do believe that every statement I have made thus far has been an "IF/THEN" statement, in computing terms. Iran has been talking for about a year concerning an Iranian Oil Bourse and converting to an American/Euro hybrid purchasing possibility.

2. Nobody wants American money? What part of almost everything that's traded is in USD is hard to understand? For that reason alone, the dollar will not fall as rapidly as you're suggesting if Iran sells oil in Euros. You think that if Iran converts to Euros well over half the world would just convert their currency to Euros as well? Or start immediately trading in Euros because Iran is doing it? No, it doesn't work that way.

Tell me, do you use Yen or Yuan to buy your goods in America? So why would another country want to use OUR money to buy goods that aren't manufactured here? Because the Dollar is given an artificial value by the fact that NECESSITIES are priced in the Dollar, because we forced them to be priced in such a manner with the deal we made with the OPEC. If I have a thousand dollars, and you can only buy oil with my money, you'd want my money. Goods and exchanges other than necessities are niceties for an economy, not necessities. When necessities stop being bought in the dollar, the American Dollars value in the world drops. The fact is, many countries have WANTED an alternative to the Dollar in the Oil Market, and many are talking about signing on if one of the OPEC decides to go that direction.

3. There aren't enough countries that have enough money to make up for what would be loss, should the US and the dollar fall. This would devastate the global economy. You don't seem to be getting this through your head. That's why countries WILL NOT let the dollar fall. Countries do have a choice in this matter.

Unless they dump their dollar and move to the new universal currency. Devastation only happens if the countries stick with the money they have now, what, do you think people can't shift their economies so that their own countries aren't devastated?

But since you're so sure they would allow the dollar to fall. Where are they going to get the money from to pick up the billions upon billions of dollars that they will lose daily?

Who would lose daily? Other countries? Why would they lose this money again?

(you did make the mistake of saying debt when you meant deficit. "National Debt was virtually erased by the close of the Clinton Era"
lol, no it wasn't. It has been on a steady increase since the 1800s. It just increased less during those times)

On that you are correct, and that is the reason for my comment. A personal reminder to me, something I knew before but misquoted.

And supply and demand is the very thing that will keep the dollar afloat. Until enough countries have enough money to buy Euros to be able to trade in Euros and threaten the dollar, the dollar will stay afloat. That's a process that takes YEARS not weeks. Again, most goods are made and bought from fairly poor countries because they're cheaper. The vast majority of these countries trade in dollars. Once these countries start converting to Euros, then you'll see the dollar in trouble.

You are again thinking that money has some sort of... monetary value. The Euro is worth only as much as the people are willing to invest in it, trust it, and endorse it. Same goes for the dollar. Really, money in and of itself, has no worth. Money is a representation of the demand of the market. A strong dollar, or yen, or pound is represented only by perceptions and in many cases situations.

Europe uses the Euro....
Why didn't we prevent them by force? You think we don't owe European countries?

General consensus was that the Euro would turn out an abysmal failure, at least to American sentiments when it was introduced.

1. I can guarentee you we will not go to war with China for using the Euro. Well, maybe in your fantasy world, but not here in the real world

EXAMPLE THE SECOND: You purposely made a malicious comment right here, and here is how most people would interpret what you just said. A) You think I am a moron. B) You think I am out of touch. C) You think I am ignorant and misinformed.

Only the latter is the most acceptable, and even it is a rub.

As for the rest of your reply, you can't guarantee me anything, as you have no power, say, or understanding of politics. Neither do I, I do not deal with people in power. Don't make assanine promises.

2. If we were to go to war with China over something like that, I seriously doubt it'd be an invasion. If it's not an invasion, the US would win. China could draw at best.

Explain why the U.S. Would win. Also, REPLY: This is what I mean when I said you think America is Great and Powerful. Everytime someone suggests America's Fragility, you act as if it is ludicrous to think America could fall.

3. China is our largest trading partner. Nuking them would not benefit us one bit (especially since the goal would be to get them to return to dollars) and would not happen unless they nuked us first.

Nuking them WOULDN'T gain us anything. If China asks for the money they loaned us back, what would you expect the current Regime to do?

And you said it would happen.
You're just now saying this would be the worst outcome. In your first post concerning this you just said that this WOULD happen.

Proceeded by an IF statement concerning the Oil Bourse... as such, it is in the realm of possibilities and not probabilities. It is what I would expect if the Dollar started to decline in value.

By their understanding. And I'm not disputing it's bad. It's much more better for us and the dollar for them to mainly trade in dollars, but if they don't, there's no credible evidence the world would end.
And again, not one of those links said anything about nuclear war and the complete collapse of the US as you did.

More better? ... Nevermind. Have I said at any point the world would end? Hell, I didn't even say there'd be nuclear war. YOU think I said that. YOU don't even understand what I SAID. I never said we'd Nuke China. I said that'd be the only other option if China decided to give us the finger and screw our own economy over. And hell, when I said nuked, I also meant war... meaning going to war with China, and LOSING, because I do think you are insane if you think the Chinese would lose. Manpower also means faster development times for weapons.

What exactly is this supposed to mean?

Just read it again, couldn't find anything in it that said the US economy would collapse. I did find this though, this is exactly what I'm talking about...

I'll read it again and quote what is relevant.

As for your response, just because things can be traded in the dollar and in fact are doesn't mean that they cannot be traded in another fashion with other money.

Main reason why countries will not let a sudden devaluation of the dollar to happen....

The quote is correct, it is based on speculation at this stage. This isn't a far fetched possibility. Speculation does not instantly mean "Ludicrous to consider".

Care to cite examples of this?

Gladly. I have cited two in THIS post, and from now on, I will do so in every response I have to what you write.

If I have done this, then I'm pretty sure the person I did it to really didn't know what he/she was talking about.
And that's ok to not know what you're talking about. You're ignorant until someone teaches you.

EXAMPLE THREE: Your supreme arrogance in assuming that if someone is ignorant, it is in fact YOUR place to make them FEEL ignorant. You just said, basically, that it is okay for you to roll your eyes and treat someone as if they are ludicrous or stupid, because they are and it's not bad to be. I view this more like your view is that it's never bad for you to have a target.

Care to cite examples?
I always ask that, but never get any responses back. I wonder why?

Because you behave like an ass, and most conversations shouldn't be about you and your point of view, asking people to explain why they dislike your manner of post is asking people to derail a conversation they may in fact enjoy in spite of you.

Your quote was...
**SNIP**

1. You speculate China would just suddenly trade in Euros
2. You say the only option the US would have is to nuke china off the face of the earth. This doesn't make much sense especially since other countries we owe are already dealing in Euros and we haven't nuked anyone.
3. Why would China call for a debt repayment after the dollar falls? How will this be beneficial to China?

Speculate based off of the rumor that China has been in talks with the OPEC concerning the same idea, as well as rumors that China is also considering the concept of the Universal Dinar that was suggested earlier in this thread.

Just reread my posts. Not one personal attack in them. The closest thing was "you don't even know what thread you're posting in."

I'd argue YOU don't know what thread your posting in. Where in the title does it say "John Titor, hoax or fact?"

I'm still waiting for you to address that btw (since you're supposed to go over every single point). Is this or is this not a Titor thread?

It is a thread concerning Titor's view of the future. It is a thread on whether we should be worried and take heed to what he said, not what others claim he predicted. It is a thread to discuss events happening now and how they might be SIMILAR to the path Titor's world supposedly took. It is NOT a thread to debate whether he was a huckster or genuine or how stupid other people are for believing or disbelieving.

Ok, tell me what subjects, and I'll provide you with more info. Not a problem at all. You just have to tell me what you need info on instead of complaining that I'm not providing info. Tell me what I'm not providing info on!

Anything about Titor. You have not responded to HALF the things I personally wrote concerning "FACTS" you produced which really had no bearing on the thing. You accept these "FACTS" as truth, and find it humorous that others don't... and on top of that, you feel it's also necessary to ridicule them for doing so.

No we don't but I'm pretty sure we can.
We don't because it's MUCH cheaper to buy things overseas. Doesn't mean we don't have the ability though...

It's cheaper because people want our money, if they didn't, it'd be more expensive to buy things from other countries.



[edit on 2/16/2006 by TheCrystalSword]

have either of you two come to the conclusion if we need to worry or not ?

you know, about titors posts, hoax or not, effecting our timeline, destiny...


you two fight like an old married couple.

is there a spark there ?

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
EXAMPLE THE FIRST: In a backhanded manner, you are thumbing your nose at Unexpecte, and accusing everyone else of blathering on at the mouth with the word "Yapping", and you are also accusing them of not supplying proof.

I began my post exactly how Unexpecte started his post concerning me.
What's the golden rule again?

And no, I'm not accusing the titorites of anything. I'm TELLING them they haven't provided any proof. That's fact.

Do you define what is proof concerning the topic? If so, I don't want to talk to you.

Wha?
Proof is...
Titor said this and that will happen as such and such a date. Provide articles, linkes, etc. to prove that 'this and that happened at such and such date'
Plain and simple.

I do believe that every statement I have made thus far has been an "IF/THEN" statement, in computing terms. Iran has been talking for about a year concerning an Iranian Oil Bourse and converting to an American/Euro hybrid purchasing possibility.

What are you basing your "ifs" on? Certainly not facts.
"If Iran does this, ___ will do that"
How do you know ____ will do that? You don't! ___ could do the exact opposite!
You're whole posts are based on pure speculation at this point and nothing more, but you're acting as though they're fact. Why?

Tell me, do you use Yen or Yuan to buy your goods in America? So why would another country want to use OUR money to buy goods that aren't manufactured here?

This is where you're getting mixed up. It's not just the US that uses the dollar! They would want to use "our" money because it may be too expensive for them to switch. Converting billions of dollars to billions of Euros isn't an overnight process.

Because the Dollar is given an artificial value by the fact that NECESSITIES are priced in the Dollar, because we forced them to be priced in such a manner with the deal we made with the OPEC.

And if OPEC starts using Euros, those other necessities will still be priced in dollars! Until that changes the dollar will stay afloat. Again, that's not an overnight process.

Unless they dump their dollar and move to the new universal currency. Devastation only happens if the countries stick with the money they have now, what, do you think people can't shift their economies so that their own countries aren't devastated?

Some (poorer countries, who produce a majority of imported materials) can't shift their economies immediately. And since their largest trading partner (the US) still uses the dollar, shifting would not benefit them in the short term, despite any (slow) devaluations of the dollar.

Who would lose daily? Other countries? Why would they lose this money again?

The countries we trade with. Namely the majority of the countries in the world.
They lose money because they have no one to buy their products. Again, the US imports trillions of dollars annually. Only China is a larger consumer. Those trillions of dollars will be gone should the US fall.

Who's going to pick up the slack?

You are again thinking that money has some sort of... monetary value. The Euro is worth only as much as the people are willing to invest in it, trust it, and endorse it. Same goes for the dollar. Really, money in and of itself, has no worth. Money is a representation of the demand of the market. A strong dollar, or yen, or pound is represented only by perceptions and in many cases situations.

Very true, and the dollar is very much the most demanded piece of paper that's circulated worldwide.
Switching oil to Euros would diminish that demand. But 1) OPEC isn't just going to automatically switch to Euros. If they do decide to switch they'll use both the dollar and Euro first, gradually fading out the dollar. That would be the only way they benefit economically (seeing how the US is the largest Oil consumer) and 2) Other things will still be traded in dollars. Any switch in those things would also be gradual.

General consensus was that the Euro would turn out an abysmal failure, at least to American sentiments when it was introduced.

Well, now we see it's success. Why aren't we nuking them?

EXAMPLE THE SECOND: You purposely made a malicious comment right here, and here is how most people would interpret what you just said. A) You think I am a moron. B) You think I am out of touch. C) You think I am ignorant and misinformed.

If you think the US' only choice would be to nuke China then yes, you are misinformed.
And I said that because it's not based on reality. We don't go around nuking people we owe. That's not how the world works.

fan·ta·sy n. - An unrealistic or improbable supposition.

It may have sounded "malicious" to you, but it was correct.

As for the rest of your reply, you can't guarantee me anything, as you have no power, say, or understanding of politics. Neither do I, I do not deal with people in power. Don't make assanine promises.

The sun will rise tomorrow. I guarentee it.
Same thing for this.
This is the 21st century. We humans pride ourselves in being somewhat civilized. Meaning, we don't go around nuking random people. That just doesn't happen.

Explain why the U.S. Would win. Also, REPLY: This is what I mean when I said you think America is Great and Powerful. Everytime someone suggests America's Fragility, you act as if it is ludicrous to think America could fall.

?
I never once said the US couldn't fall.
If America were to fall however, I'm pretty sure it'll have little to do with outside forces.

Why would the US win? Superior forces. Not me "thinking America is all great and powerful." Me stating facts. If we were to try and invade China, then there's a good chance we couldn't win. If they tried to invade us, there's no way they would win. If it was a war with no invasion forces, the US would win because we're built for that kind of war. Our military is designed to fight 2 of those kinds of wars at the same time. We also have a technological and firepower advantage in that situation.

Nuking them WOULDN'T gain us anything.

Exactly....so why would we do it?

If China asks for the money they loaned us back, what would you expect the current Regime to do?

Same thing we've been doing since 19__. Absolutely nothing.
What's China going to do?

Why would China ask us that anyway knowing we can't repay?

Proceeded by an IF statement concerning the Oil Bourse... as such, it is in the realm of possibilities and not probabilities. It is what I would expect if the Dollar started to decline in value.

The question is why do you expect that?
What is your thinking based on?

Have I said at any point the world would end? Hell, I didn't even say there'd be nuclear war. YOU think I said that. YOU don't even understand what I SAID. I never said we'd Nuke China. I said that'd be the only other option if China decided to give us the finger and screw our own economy over. And hell, when I said nuked, I also meant war... meaning going to war with China, and LOSING, because I do think you are insane if you think the Chinese would lose. Manpower also means faster development times for weapons.

1. If we were to go to war with China, then yeah...it'd pretty much be the end of the world as we know it.

2. We have air superiority and water superiority over China. How exactly do you think we'd lose? The goal would be to prevent them from switching, and devastate their economy/country right? There would be no need for the US to send an invasion force. We don't send an invasion force, we don't lose. Like I said, there's a possibility of a draw (depending on the politics of this country), but we wouldn't lose that kind of war.

As for your response, just because things can be traded in the dollar and in fact are doesn't mean that they cannot be traded in another fashion with other money.

The can be, but they're not. Until they are, the dollar will stay alive.

The quote is correct, it is based on speculation at this stage. This isn't a far fetched possibility. Speculation does not instantly mean "Ludicrous to consider".

I can't recall ever saying that.

Gladly. I have cited two in THIS post, and from now on, I will do so in every response I have to what you write.

That's cool.
But you said it like it's happened many times before. I'd like to see those examples please

EXAMPLE THREE: Your supreme arrogance in assuming that if someone is ignorant, it is in fact YOUR place to make them FEEL ignorant.

No. Either you are or you aren't. There's really not much of a gray area.

You just said, basically, that it is okay for you to roll your eyes and treat someone as if they are ludicrous or stupid, because they are and it's not bad to be. I view this more like your view is that it's never bad for you to have a target.

No I said it's ok to be ignorant (as everyone is until taught otherwise). And that's all I said.

Because you behave like an ass

lol, so it's ok for you to make comments like this, but it's not ok for me to say 100% more tamer stuff?

and most conversations shouldn't be about you and your point of view, asking people to explain why they dislike your manner of post is asking people to derail a conversation they may in fact enjoy in spite of you.

What? I'm asking you to back up your comments. If you're going to accuse someone, you'd better be prepared to support that accusation.

I'd argue YOU don't know what thread your posting in. Where in the title does it say "John Titor, hoax or fact?"

What are you talking about? I said the title of this thead is "John Titor - No Need to Worry?"
Where in the title does it say that?
Well, in the title...
John Titor - No need to worry?

It is a thread concerning Titor's view of the future. It is a thread on whether we should be worried and take heed to what he said, not what others claim he predicted. It is a thread to discuss events happening now and how they might be SIMILAR to the path Titor's world supposedly took. It is NOT a thread to debate whether he was a huckster or genuine or how stupid other people are for believing or disbelieving.

Then why are you talking about Iran, the Euro, and China?
You're causing this thread to go off topic.

Anything about Titor. You have not responded to HALF the things I personally wrote concerning "FACTS" you produced which really had no bearing on the thing.

Ok, maybe I missed it.
I'll address it now. Where is it though?? Is it in another thread?

You accept these "FACTS" as truth, and find it humorous that others don't... and on top of that, you feel it's also necessary to ridicule them for doing so.

Again, WHERE!?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I began my post exactly how Unexpecte started his post concerning me.
What's the golden rule again?

And no, I'm not accusing the titorites of anything. I'm TELLING them they haven't provided any proof. That's fact.

And you join threads of conversation to do this WHY?

As for Unexpecte's comments, it is also inappropriate for them to do... and the Golden Rule is do unto others as you would have them do unto you, not do to others because they did to you.

Wha?
Proof is...
Titor said this and that will happen as such and such a date. Provide articles, linkes, etc. to prove that 'this and that happened at such and such date'
Plain and simple.

Titor said this and that HAPPENED at this and that date, in his world. I never got the impression that he cared if this or that would or could happen here, though he believed it was inevitable apparently.

What are you basing your "ifs" on? Certainly not facts.
"If Iran does this, ___ will do that"
How do you know ____ will do that? You don't! ___ could do the exact opposite!

Okay, if an OPEC begins accepting EURO for oil, China has indicated they might also back the EURO. So have several other countries. They could do the exact opposite, and that's fine. Point is, if the dollar falls, there will be a run on the market to get the money back that had been loaned to us before the dollar is worthless. THAT is where economic collapse happens, in situations like the big depression where people sense the doom and want to salvage what they can before the ship sinks.

You're whole posts are based on pure speculation at this point and nothing more, but you're acting as though they're fact. Why?

My opinions and speculation are not fact, they are merely founded on what I understand of any particular topic. I only feel inclined to believe what information I have come across throughout my life.

As such, If the dollar begins dropping, the speed at which it drops will accelerate exponentially. IF it happens, then you can expect a social collapse and an American internal Implosion... in which case, the world itself might be doomed, who knows?

This is where you're getting mixed up. It's not just the US that uses the dollar! They would want to use "our" money because it may be too expensive for them to switch. Converting billions of dollars to billions of Euros isn't an overnight process.

Granted, there is a conversion time needed... however, much of the infrastructure for the Euro was built after it's inception. That does make it easier to convert.

And if OPEC starts using Euros, those other necessities will still be priced in dollars! Until that changes the dollar will stay afloat. Again, that's not an overnight process.

How are you certain of this? Why should Malaysia employ the U.S. dollar if the Euro is worth more? Using the Euro would mean more wealth would come into their country, perceived wealth or not. Why would they export and ask for dollars if a country that imports their goods would pay them in EUROS, which might at that time be worth more?

Some (poorer countries, who produce a majority of imported materials) can't shift their economies immediately. And since their largest trading partner (the US) still uses the dollar, shifting would not benefit them in the short term, despite any (slow) devaluations of the dollar.

True, but as you pointed out so succinctly before... or was it someone else? Anyways... America is the biggest contributor to charities... so if nobody cares what America thinks, who cares what poor countries get ground to dust? Yes, I do know that everyone in the world isn't heartless and cruel, but the people in power tend to be.

You do have a point though, poorer countries wouldn't switch to the EURO... unless they could benefit from it.

The countries we trade with. Namely the majority of the countries in the world.

Trade doesn't stop if America blew up tomorrow... people find new buyers, hopefully garnering the most VALUE from the trade... which means if the Euro has more instrinsic value, trade would be done in that fashion. Varied countries backing the Euro also helps this process, allowing for more trade partners.

Very true, and the dollar is very much the most demanded piece of paper that's circulated worldwide.
Switching oil to Euros would diminish that demand. But 1) OPEC isn't just going to automatically switch to Euros. If they do decide to switch they'll use both the dollar and Euro first, gradually fading out the dollar. That would be the only way they benefit economically (seeing how the US is the largest Oil consumer) and 2) Other things will still be traded in dollars. Any switch in those things would also be gradual.

OPEC isn't likely to do so, because that wouldn't maximize their profits. However, several countries have already been discussing switching to the EURO if OPEC takes EURO in exchange for OIL. I'd be surprised if any OPEC switched strictly to Euro's... not too surprised, since some of them want more than anything for the U.S.A. to burn in hell and don't care too much for the rest of the world either.

Well, now we see it's success. Why aren't we nuking them?

EXAMPLE 4: You seriously cannot let it go, can you? I didn't say we'd Nuke China, I was using it as an example of what NOT to do and also what I'd expect to come out of the logical masterminds we call our leaders thoughtpatterns.

Let it go, I never said we'd Nuke China, and Europe itself (Since it isn't exactly a country) doesn't pose a threat to us, aside from which, who would we attack?

If you think the US' only choice would be to nuke China then yes, you are misinformed.
And I said that because it's not based on reality. We don't go around nuking people we owe. That's not how the world works.

You want to know, you asked the question, you get an answer. Your opinion doesn't matter when it comes to my interpretations of your behavior. Whether you think you are offensive and rude doesn't matter, because you aren't the person qualified to make the assessment. You are in fact the LEAST qualified to make such an assessment, considering it is entirely dependant on the perceptions of those who are not YOU.

The sun will rise tomorrow. I guarentee it.

Unless it is Dec. 23rd above the Arctic Circle.

This is the 21st century. We humans pride ourselves in being somewhat civilized. Meaning, we don't go around nuking random people. That just doesn't happen.

Hasn't does not mean will not, doesn't is an infinitive.

Why would the US win? Superior forces. Not me "thinking America is all great and powerful." Me stating facts. If we were to try and invade China, then there's a good chance we couldn't win. If they tried to invade us, there's no way they would win. If it was a war with no invasion forces, the US would win because we're built for that kind of war. Our military is designed to fight 2 of those kinds of wars at the same time. We also have a technological and firepower advantage in that situation.

War isn't about who has the upper hand, it is about who plays well and can put themselves into a position of dominance against their enemy. The longer a fight continues, the less likely it is that one side will be obviously inferior. War does funny things to strength of nations, the strong can become weak and the weak undefeatable.

Exactly....so why would we do it?

You seriously need to let it go, what you personally thought I meant has no relevance to what I meant. I told you that what you thought I meant was false, so why not accept that since I am the authority on my own personality and what I meant to convey, however misconstrued it may have been.

Same thing we've been doing since 19__. Absolutely nothing.
What's China going to do?

Why would China ask us that anyway knowing we can't repay?

Wolves do funny things when they know their prey is weak. China is no more an ally than Russia is, we are only top dog and the biggest buyers right now. That changes, and who knows what happens to relations with superpowers?

The question is why do you expect that?
What is your thinking based on?

Currently rumor and indication that talking may be going on behind closed doors about the topic of EURO supplanting the dollar in various countries. Highly speculative, but not so much pulled out of my own ass.

The fact that the Euro has been successful thus far does lend a good deal of weight to it being a bigger threat to the buying power of the dollar than any other foreign currency.

Thank you for asking politely such a question without a deriding jab at my intellect, by the by, it is much more appreciated in this fashion.

1. If we were to go to war with China, then yeah...it'd pretty much be the end of the world as we know it.

2. We have air superiority and water superiority over China. How exactly do you think we'd lose? The goal would be to prevent them from switching, and devastate their economy/country right? There would be no need for the US to send an invasion force. We don't send an invasion force, we don't lose. Like I said, there's a possibility of a draw (depending on the politics of this country), but we wouldn't lose that kind of war.

Situations change, especially in drawn out wars. That is why invading is often preferred, you can halt your enemies military progress by usurping their powerbase. Initially it would certainly appear that America would win, but then it isn't exactly winning in Iraq...

The can be, but they're not. Until they are, the dollar will stay alive.

We agree, but not on the principle of how easy the Dollar could fall in value.

I can't recall ever saying that.

Well, calling certain musings I've had "FANTASY" counts as calling something Ludicrous... they mean roughly the same thing, you know.

That's cool.
But you said it like it's happened many times before. I'd like to see those examples please

No. You will be satisfied by my pointing out when it occurrs, I will not dredge up previous posts just to make personal attacks, which has nothing to do with the topic or thread, and can only detract from the conversation. That would be rude to anyone else following the thread.

lol, so it's ok for you to make comments like this, but it's not ok for me to say 100% more tamer stuff?

I am not underhanded about it, and frankly you do act like an ass at times. You approached the initiation of this discussion with rudeness towards the people involved in this thread, and behaved with incredulity to my comments without engaging a dialogue.

What are you talking about? I said the title of this thead is "John Titor - No Need to Worry?"

Yes, but you want people to address specifically what Titor himself said... does it not occurr to you that what he said actually isn't as important as the warnings of where our country could head? Or do you REALLY think it is the most important thing for everyone to know and never doubt he's fake?

Then why are you talking about Iran, the Euro, and China?
You're causing this thread to go off topic.

Because it could play into a collapse of Western Power and a power implosion in America.

Ok, maybe I missed it.
I'll address it now. Where is it though?? Is it in another thread?

It is, in fact, in several threads including this one somewhere.

Again, WHERE!?

Photo of the Laser, Hard Case which resembles the time machine casing.

TheCrystalSword

ThatsJustWeird

TheCrystalSword
You accept these "FACTS" as truth, and find it humorous that others don't... and on top of that, you feel it's also necessary to ridicule them for doing so.

Again, WHERE!?

Photo of the Laser, Hard Case which resembles the time machine casing.

Yes that’s true!

The "hard case" "proof" is still my favourite!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually it is not funny at all, but tragically sad. Why the obsessive need to “proof” an alleged time traveller to be a hoax? Why the persistent denial of the dramatic change in America? Why propagandising these ideas with the kind of passion you would expect from a religious sect leader or a communist politician?

UnExpecte

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
And you join threads of conversation to do this WHY?

What?
I join threads like this because the topic is interesting. This is a conspiricy message board. You're going to have debates on every subject here, with at least two sides to every single subject.

Titor said this and that HAPPENED at this and that date, in his world. I never got the impression that he cared if this or that would or could happen here, though he believed it was inevitable apparently.

Then why are people so furiously trying to prove what he said is true for this world?

Okay, if an OPEC begins accepting EURO for oil, China has indicated they might also back the EURO. So have several other countries. They could do the exact opposite, and that's fine. Point is, if the dollar falls, there will be a run on the market to get the money back that had been loaned to us before the dollar is worthless.

This doesn't make sense. If the dollar falls, then that would make it worthless. If the other countries were to ask for their money back, they would do it NOW when the dollar is worth something, not after it falls.

It doesn't work like that anyway. When has any country ever asked for their money back? They ask for their money back...we go broke....we no longer have the ability to pour billions of dollars into their banks and markets because we have no money to buy their products = poor economics.

As such, If the dollar begins dropping, the speed at which it drops will accelerate exponentially. IF it happens, then you can expect a social collapse and an American internal Implosion... in which case, the world itself might be doomed, who knows?

This would be true, if countries allowed the dollar to drop exponentially. But since a drop like that would hurt them as well, other countries will not allow that to happen.

How are you certain of this? Why should Malaysia employ the U.S. dollar if the Euro is worth more? Using the Euro would mean more wealth would come into their country, perceived wealth or not. Why would they export and ask for dollars if a country that imports their goods would pay them in EUROS, which might at that time be worth more?

I stated any change would not be an overnight process. Until Malaysia can afford to trade in Euros what else are they going to use besides the dollar?
Also, the country they export to the most is the US, and the US still uses the dollar.

Trade doesn't stop if America blew up tomorrow... people find new buyers, hopefully garnering the most VALUE from the trade... which means if the Euro has more instrinsic value, trade would be done in that fashion. Varied countries backing the Euro also helps this process, allowing for more trade partners.

Yes but with the US gone trillions of dollars will be gone. Making up those trillions of dollars will not be an easy task. Even with the value of the Euro going up. What other countries have the ability to pick up the slack?

OPEC isn't likely to do so, because that wouldn't maximize their profits. However, several countries have already been discussing switching to the EURO if OPEC takes EURO in exchange for OIL. I'd be surprised if any OPEC switched strictly to Euro's... not too surprised, since some of them want more than anything for the U.S.A. to burn in hell and don't care too much for the rest of the world either.

You underestimate the power and desire for money.
They may hate the US, but the US is where they get their money from

EXAMPLE 4: You seriously cannot let it go, can you? I didn't say we'd Nuke China, I was using it as an example of what NOT to do and also what I'd expect to come out of the logical masterminds we call our leaders thoughtpatterns.

lol, you said if China switched to Euros we'd have no choice but to nuke them.
I just want to know what that's based on? Did you read it somewhere or what? That's all I want to know.

Let it go, I never said we'd Nuke China, and Europe itself (Since it isn't exactly a country) doesn't pose a threat to us, aside from which, who would we attack?

Your opinion doesn't matter when it comes to my interpretations of your behavior.

works both ways
Tell my why I should care about your opinion?

The sun will rise tomorrow. I guarentee it.

Unless it is Dec. 23rd above the Arctic Circle.
But it's not, so it will.

Hasn't does not mean will not, doesn't is an infinitive.

It means it hasn't in the past and will not in the future (unless we just go crazy for some reason)

You seriously need to let it go, what you personally thought I meant has no relevance to what I meant. I told you that what you thought I meant was false, so why not accept that since I am the authority on my own personality and what I meant to convey, however misconstrued it may have been.

lol, I'm going by what you wrote. If you wrote what you wrote and didn't mean it...why did you write it?

it is likely they will call for a debt repayment. The U.S. Citizens aren't going to let their leaders Nuke China off the face of the earth, which is the only other option the Red, White, and Blue will have.

if the debt collector is dead, who is going to collect? Hence why I said the only option would be to kill at the very least the chinese government who would ask for the money to be returned if the Dollar's value began to fall.

I asked my question based on these statements

Situations change, especially in drawn out wars. That is why invading is often preferred, you can halt your enemies military progress by usurping their powerbase. Initially it would certainly appear that America would win, but then it isn't exactly winning in Iraq...

Occupation would be the problem, not winning the war. Which is why I said an invasion is least likely to be successful.

I am not underhanded about it, and frankly you do act like an ass at times.

Oh ok! So if I'm make outright personal attacks, it's ok!

You approached the initiation of this discussion with rudeness towards the people involved in this thread, and behaved with incredulity to my comments without engaging a dialogue.

?
My first comments were back in May (before you even joined) asking about the missing towers.
My first comments since the bump was talking about Y2K and joking with Philes
I responded to your post like that because 1) it was another subject change and had nothing to do with Titor and 2) it was all based on pure speculations and you provided nothing - not one link or anything - to back up your statements

Yes, but you want people to address specifically what Titor himself said... does it not occurr to you that what he said actually isn't as important as the warnings of where our country could head? Or do you REALLY think it is the most important thing for everyone to know and never doubt he's fake?

....*sigh*....
Please see the long Titor thread....

Because it could play into a collapse of Western Power and a power implosion in America.

Which according to Titor was supposed to happen in the past two years.

It is, in fact, in several threads including this one somewhere.

Your quote was - "You have not responded to HALF the things I personally wrote concerning "FACTS" you produced"

I told you I would address those things now. You have to show me where you wrote concerning the "facts" I presented however. How am I supposed to respond if you don't show me what I'm supposed to respond to?

Photo of the Laser, Hard Case which resembles the time machine casing.

I haven't wrote concerning the laser, and there's nothing much I can add to what's already been said. If the gravity is that strong that it can bend laser light - the picture would have been distorted, the car would have been crushed, etc.
The hard case was just one type of hard case H2Z found.
There are plent of similar cases to what Titor showed



What Titor showed is likely a modified and/or customized shotgun case.

Originally posted by UnExpecte
Actually it is not funny at all, but tragically sad. Why the obsessive need to “proof” an alleged time traveller to be a hoax?

I can't speak for priest but I here wondering why the obsessive need for Titor to be real.
So I guess I'll just ask. Why do you want and/or need for Titor's story to be real?

Why the persistent denial of the dramatic change in America?

And where might I find these denials? I can't find any in this thread or the other long titor thread.

Why propagandising these ideas with the kind of passion you would expect from a religious sect leader or a communist politician?

What ideas?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
If the gravity is that strong that it can bend laser light - the picture would have been distorted, the car would have been crushed, etc.

That's a ridiculous statement. The gravity field is clearly controlled in 2036, so why would it crush the car or make it impossible to take a picture where there's still light? You sound like one of those children at school around 1900 laughing at the teacher who told them that one day they all would be able to see eachother and talk with eachother over a long distance through square boxes.

UnExpecte

[edit on 17-2-2006 by UnExpecte]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by UnExpecte
Why the persistent denial of the dramatic change in America?

And where might I find these denials? I can't find any in this thread or the other long titor thread.

I believe you were denying that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by UnExpecte
Why propagandising these ideas with the kind of passion you would expect from a religious sect leader or a communist politician?

What ideas?

So, you are saying that you are not denying that Constitutional freedoms are affected by the present US Government?

[edit on 17-2-2006 by UnExpecte]

titors science is pretty impressive until you shine the light of reason on it. Titor states his time travel device weighs 500 lbs. And he is sitting right next to it in the delorean, right ?

hmmmmm.......

communities.anomalies.net...


An amusing computation: Suppose r_s = 1 fm (somewhat smaller than "an
> electron"). Then m_BH = r_s*c^2/G, right? Plug 'n' chug. On my
> calculator, 10^-15 * 9x10^16/6.67x10^-11 \approx 10^12 kg. Let's see,
> that would be, um, a billion metric tons, the mass of a cube of water
> 1000 meters to the side (as 1000^3 = 10^9 and water conveniently
> masses a metric ton, 10^3 kg per cubic meter. How come nobody in your
> group actually did these simple computations?
>
> His suitcase contains TWO of these? He carried this suitcase on a 67
> Chevy? Man, they must put a hell of a suspension in those babies...



www.idlewords.com...
But do be careful if you start offering too many specifics. Not only might someone steal your plans and build a time machine decades too soon, but you might even slip up and end up with egg on your face. Just look at John Titor, who completely forgot to read up on Hawking radiation. His two-black-hole time machine was supposed to weigh 500 pounds. But even assuming that each of the black holes weighed 100 kg (220 lbs) - leaving only 60 lbs for the rest of the device - both of those puppies would have had to have been radiating energy at about 3 x 10e29 Watts (the equivalent of over a thousand suns), at a temperature of 1.2 x 10e21 Kelvin (twelve orders of magnitude more than the core of a supernova). And their lifetime would have been just eight trillionths of a second.





even if these calculations are off substantially, how can anyone believe that a few years after a nuclear war, and only 30 years in our future, they can make the things 500 lbs, and something you can carry around like a tuba ?

just doesn't pass the sniff test



and the laser picture with what, guided gravity ? the gravity somehow knows to bend the laser light , but not the visible light around it or the car ?

ok, but they still can't get UNIX to work right


HUH ?

Originally posted by UnExpecte
That's a ridiculous statement. The gravity field is clearly controlled in 2036, so why would it crush the car or make it impossible to take a picture where there's still light? You sound like one of those children at school around 1900 laughing at the teacher who told them that one day they all would be able to see eachother and talk with eachother over a long distance through square boxes.

UnExpecte

1. 2036 is only 30 years away. That's not that far.
2. There's supposed to be a civil war and nuclear war in between 2004 and 2036 that's going to devastate the world and kill off at least half the world's population. Where in the world are they going to get the money, manpower, and technology to 1) discover it, 2) test it, and 3) start production of this technology? When will they have time to do all that?
3. Sure it controlled. They controlled it so that it's stong enough to bend light. Still doesn't explain why the car isn't being crused. Especially since the beam bends just outside the car (rear view mirror not affected). Unless you're telling me that the device is so complex and advanced that it's the equivalent to telling each specific raindrop where to fall in a hurricane. Because that's the kind of technology it would take to have a gravitational field that strong and only affect certain things.
On technology that (after a 10 year civil war then a nuclear war) is worse than ours, I don't see that being probable.

I believe you were denying that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

Where? When?

I heard that his family was going to be on Coast to Coast earlier this week...I missed it, or maybe it was hoax but did anyone catch it? I would like to hear what if anything was said. Thanks in Advance!

By the way I do believe in Time Travel and Titor's Story.
2008 Are the only Olympics that count...hell with the low ratings in this Winter's Olympics, it might be canceled just for that. lol. Figure Skaing and Curling (think Shuffle-board on Ice!) are NOT sports, Figure Skating is not even a game. And Snow Boarding is Hobby. The "Winter Games" is far from what I have ALWAYS considered the "Olympic Games".

Just keep watching and do nothing as MS-13 Gangs takes over our cities through illegal immigration and Nationalized Mexican-Americans. MS-13 is more powerful than Hamas and the PLO put together. One major problem of fighting MS-13 is because they are already here in our cities and they blend because they know how to act and hide. If America ever declares war on MS-13, I would expect many NON-Gang members, mostly from ethnic groups but most importantly Innocent Young Americans, to be killed by their own Govt.

When the Govt. has to crack the whip and take away more of our Civil Rights, especially in the Cities where they had to put most of their resources to fight MS-13 where I would expect the entire city to be under Marshall Law...The Govt. may even use this opportunity to begin their RFID CHIP IMPLANTING PLAN. Then because of further aggression from the US Govt against its own citizens, Patriotic Groups much like the Minutemen will form Communal Militias fighting for their rights to be restored. The Union begins to fall apart, leaving America exposed to Foreign Aggressions from our many enemies.

This is not unrealistic... Do your homework on MS-13! Clear and Present Danger!!!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by UnExpecte
That's a ridiculous statement. The gravity field is clearly controlled in 2036, so why would it crush the car or make it impossible to take a picture where there's still light? You sound like one of those children at school around 1900 laughing at the teacher who told them that one day they all would be able to see eachother and talk with eachother over a long distance through square boxes.

UnExpecte

1. 2036 is only 30 years away. That's not that far.

Technological advances are in rapid acceleration compared to 50 years ago, so please don't give me that nonsense.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
2. There's supposed to be a civil war and nuclear war in between 2004 and 2036 that's going to devastate the world and kill off at least half the world's population. Where in the world are they going to get the money, manpower, and technology to 1) discover it, 2) test it, and 3) start production of this technology? When will they have time to do all that?

Didn't Titor say that mainly the great cities were affected? Of course, it won't be an easy street, but I am sure if you are running a black project you will bring it into safety before "push comes to shove" don't you think?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
3. Sure it controlled. They controlled it so that it's stong enough to bend light. Still doesn't explain why the car isn't being crused. Especially since the beam bends just outside the car (rear view mirror not affected). Unless you're telling me that the device is so complex and advanced that it's the equivalent to telling each specific raindrop where to fall in a hurricane. Because that's the kind of technology it would take to have a gravitational field that strong and only affect certain things.
On technology that (after a 10 year civil war then a nuclear war) is worse than ours, I don't see that being probable.

Please read my previous answers.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by UnExpecte
I believe you were denying that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

Where? When?

Okay, thank you. So you agree that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

UnExpecte

[edit on 17-2-2006 by UnExpecte]

here class, we have a fundamental lack of basic reading comprehension

quote: Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
quote: Originally posted by UnExpecte
I believe you were denying that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

Where? When?

Okay, thank you. So you agree that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

UnExpecte



no, he was asking you to show him where he made those statements

if you can't grasp that, how can you argue the science involved with gravity and its effects on a beam of light ?


next


[edit on 17-2-2006 by syrinx high priest]

Originally posted by UnExpecte

Technological advances are in rapid acceleration compared to 50 years ago, so please don't give me that nonsense.

They are not advancing that rapidly without war. A civil war then nuclear war would slow, if not stop, any advances greatly.

Didn't Titor say that mainly the great cities were affected? Of course, it won't be an easy street, but I am sure if you are running a black project you will bring it into safety before "push comes to shove" don't you think?

Titor said cities and military installations would get hit.

But the question then arises. Who's doing this project? If it's the government and military, well....they're defeated in the war and the defeated party usually burns or hides any top secret info they were working on so. I seriously doubt they would just willingly give the people who were trying to kill them technology like that.
If it's the militia. That doesn't make sense...the militia is just made up of regular people. Any project like that would take billions of dollars, plus millions more to pay the best scientists in the world to try and figure out time travel. But the rebels are just interested in getting their country back according to Titor, why would they worry about such things as time travel when they're fighting to take back their country?

Okay, thank you. So you agree that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

See syrinx's post.

It's interesting to see two 'snakes' crawling when a direct question is asked. The both of you neither deny or confirm whether you agree that Constitutional freedoms have been affected by the present US Government.

That should tell us enough..

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Titor said cities and military installations would get hit.

But the question then arises. Who's doing this project? If it's the government and military, well....they're defeated in the war and the defeated party usually burns or hides any top secret info they were working on so. I seriously doubt they would just willingly give the people who were trying to kill them technology like that.

Ofcourse they wouldn't do that. That's why they needed to be killed.

Apparently you haven't read that Titor made it clear that even after 2015 there was a long lasting 'resistance' until 2020 when most of them were killed.

Apparently the Government and Military got divided and as we know, some ideologies don't mix..

So I take it that the 'resistance' was the remaining part of the 'NWO' worms that needed to be dealt with after 2015.

UnExpecte

[edit on 20-2-2006 by UnExpecte]

"It's interesting to see two 'snakes' crawling when a direct question is asked. "

I would agree, the current administration is having a profound negative impact on personal freedoms in this country.

ok, your turn

can you address the following questions
do you believe that john titors posts are accurate, and 100% truthful, specifically that he is a time traveller from 2036 ?

if yes, have you begun preparations for the civil war and nuclear war ? you know, purchase bike tires, stock up on guns and ammo and canned foods etc

can you specifically address the weight of his twin mini black holes, and how he keeps them cool in that tuba case he carries them in ?

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
I heard that his family was going to be on Coast to Coast earlier this week...I missed it, or maybe it was hoax but did anyone catch it? I would like to hear what if anything was said. Thanks in Advance!

I sent a U2U link of that show. It is Titor's family lawyer speaking for JT mother.

Titor
02/05/01 11:28 (right now) 275
When the civil “conflict” started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in
the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for
more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the
street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.

Last week I saw a Predator drone (UAV) flying over my area, I was working on my T.V. antenna, and lo-n-behold there it was........ so much for my"isolated"area

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Any project like that would take billions of dollars, plus millions more to pay the best scientists in the world to try and figure out time travel. But the rebels are just interested in getting their country back according to Titor, why would they worry about such things as time travel when they're fighting to take back their country?

Money is irrevelant here. You don't need money in this kind of thing. It's not like today. When you need something to survive, you don't need money. Someone (a scientist or not) will work for free if the faith of the world is in his hands!
They are humans! For the good and the survival of them and those he's love, he'll work for free for sure!

So money is irrelevant in this kind of thing!

And JTW, look at this www.newropeans-magazine.org...

You'll see how we are right on the euro-based oil bourse... And that USA have a very great chance 80% to collapse this year. Probably in march/April.

[edit on 20-2-2006 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by UnExpecte
Ofcourse they wouldn't do that. That's why they needed to be killed.

Apparently you haven't read that Titor made it clear that even after 2015 there was a long lasting 'resistance' until 2020 when most of them were killed.

Apparently the Government and Military got divided and as we know, some ideologies don't mix..

So I take it that the 'resistance' was the remaining part of the 'NWO' worms that needed to be dealt with after 2015.

UnExpecte

What are you talking about? I have read Titor and that's why I'm asking the question. Who's doing the project? The military/government? Or the rebels?
Since the fighting really doesn't end until 2020, that means that the greatest discovery in human kind that will change the face of the world forever with technology that's 100+ years ahead of it's time, will be discovered in less than 15 years after global devestation and the worldwide decimation of the human race making Titor's story even less believable.

**

Money is irrevelant here. You don't need money in this kind of thing. It's not like today. When you need something to survive, you don't need money. Someone (a scientist or not) will work for free if the faith of the world is in his hands!
They are humans! For the good and the survival of them and those he's love, he'll work for free for sure!

So money is irrelevant in this kind of thing!

money irrelevant?
Are you joking? Not once did Titor say that time travel will be used for "their survival." In fact Titor himself was using it for personal reasons. And he specifically said that they can't use it to change the past.
Do you really think during a time of civil war, then WW3 (which is a nuclear war) you'll get people to just forget about keeping themselves and their families safe to work on a project, that would normally costs billons (if not more) in labor and materials and take decades of research, and that serves them no purpose at all for free?
I don't think so.
Humans are humans. They will not risk their lives for nothing.

And again, who's doing the project!
If it's the gov/military, there's no way they would let that technology into rebel hands.
If it's the rebels, there's no way there's enough of them with that kind of research power, brain power, money, materials, etc. to do all that. They're just regular people. They also have no motive.

And that USA have a very great chance 80% to collapse this year. Probably in march/April.

Please read up on the subject.
You haven't shown that you have read up on the subject, so I'm left to assume that your comment right there is wishful thinking.