John Titor - No need to worry?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
All movies and books I have seen contain paradoxes (a realistic outcome to time travel). Titor's story does not. Explain why.

Idiocy has no remedy, and if you don't understand that Paradox is just a theory and not the most likely one under current understanding, I can't help you. They don't make a pill for what ails you.

So, do you understand that MWT is more likely under String Theory and Quantum Mechanics? MWT states there is no such thing as paradox because Time Travel itself doesn't exist, merely dimensional travel to similar environments to the past.

How is knowing this going to feed someone?
How is knowing that going to rebuild a school or place of employment?

Idiocy doesn't have acure, it is a fatal ailment. If you can't see how "Time" travel can be used to supplement forgotten knowledge by usurping it from a past-like environment not dissimilar enough to warrant notice, I can't help you. There is no injection that can cure what ails you. Taking food, supplies, tools, electronics, and other objects from a past-like environment would certainly help rebuild culture and society.

Actually now that you mentioned it...it's quite possible.

I'm afraid it's already too late for some of us, apparently.

With all the radiation, little clean water and food, medical attention scarce, and after years of war and death I'm positive there would be an increase in mental retardation. How much of the population would be affected? Who knows.

No more of an increase than cancer, birth deformities, infant mortality, among other things. Though Idiocy tends to be a fatal disease to most, especially in a more ruthless environment like Post Nuclear Role Playing Games.

You really think people are going back to the stone age after nuclear war.........

I didn't say that.
(Einstein did however: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.")

So Einstein is a prophet who has seen the future? Hmm. Perhaps we should look at Nostradamus again... I mean, he was more educated than Einstein.

I'm going by what Titor said. He stated there was: Global devestation. Global decimation of the human race. No reliable technology around. No mass production plants. No cities (which means there No economy).

I cry BullSh#. I demand a link where Titor stated anything about there being no reliable technology, or no Mass Production Plants, OR No Cities.

Until you supply a quote, the above declaration is full of stinky, stinky fesces.

I have yet to hear a good reason why they would waste time and money on
time travel instead of rebuilding.

Because whatever happens to be missing can be taken from the past with little effort, expenditure, and *NO* time at all. Literally, Time Travel costs no Time.

(or let's say there is a huge leap in technology so that they are able to time travel. If they have the technology to time travel then that means the technology is there to say...teraform mars or the moon. That would be more useful to a devestated earth than time travel)

Sadly, total moronic behavior is just as fatal as idiocy. Would that I were a chemist, for if discovered a new element that certainly means I can build a fusion plant. Or perhaps if I was a physicist that works on bipedal robotics, that of course means I can build a stationary orbital ecosystem. Just like if I had the technology of a time machine, that must of COURSE mean that I am wasting my time when my Earth-maker 3000 is just sitting there unused while Mars keeps orbiting as if to taunt me.

There isn't a balm, a rub, or an oral laxative that can purge total moronic behavior.

We poured billions into rebuilding Japan. Again, who's going to pour billions into our economy?

Yes. We poured billions into rebuilding a few cities we totalled in WW2. That is why we owe the Japanese money.

And as stated before, money has no value except what is put on it. In an environment recovering from total nuclear war, people's skills have more value than a dollar bill.... scientists will get fed, they will get what they need becausethe people need them to make life easier. People need them to clean the water, to fix the radiation poisoning the environment, to find ways to make life better. Money isn't an object in such a society... and the society itself would be far different from the corporate bloaty pizza-hogs of today.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Stop with the economy thing. It's irrelevant. The money don't come in play.

If you don't believe this, just consider it out of the question, because here, you're the only one who believe that money is a problem.

You still haven't given any explanation AT ALL why money is irrelevant. Why should I stop?
Money has been relevant for thousands of years. Why would it just suddenly stop mattering?

******
Your post is hillarious Crystal
Personal attacks = a sign of desperation

So, do you understand that MWT is more likely under String Theory and Quantum Mechanics? MWT states there is no such thing as paradox because Time Travel itself doesn't exist, merely dimensional travel to similar environments to the past.

Talking to the wrong person. Talk to the Titor character.

If you can't see how "Time" travel can be used to supplement forgotten knowledge by usurping it from a past-like environment not dissimilar enough to warrant notice, I can't help you. There is no injection that can cure what ails you. Taking food, supplies, tools, electronics, and other objects from a past-like environment would certainly help rebuild culture and society.

Or they could just go into the future and not worry about that stuff.

But seriously, get real man. If you had a hundred dollars, would you put that money toward developing something that's just based on theories and will likely not work or feed your family.

No more of an increase than cancer, birth deformities, infant mortality, among other things. Though Idiocy tends to be a fatal disease to most, especially in a more ruthless environment like Post Nuclear Role Playing Games

I think you were trying to be funny here, but....

So Einstein is a prophet who has seen the future? Hmm. Perhaps we should look at Nostradamus again... I mean, he was more educated than Einstein.

Are you a prophet?
Tell us why should anyone believe you over Einstein?

I cry BullSh#. I demand a link where Titor stated anything about there being no reliable technology, or no Mass Production Plants, OR No Cities.

johntitor.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

JT: "There is no large industrial complex creating masses of useless food and recreational items."
Same thing as production plants.

JT: "In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe . The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won."

JT: "Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around."

Guess you just skipped over those parts eh?


I want to stop here to let this sink in for a minute, but I'll keep going.

Because whatever happens to be missing can be taken from the past with little effort, expenditure, and *NO* time at all. Literally, Time Travel costs no Time.

Titor said that by changing someone's past, you may not mess up your worldline, but you do mess up theirs (did you read that part or do you need me to find that for you too ). Taking enough stuff from someone else's timeline to rebuild yours would surly **** things up.

Sadly, total moronic behavior is just as fatal as idiocy. Would that I were a chemist, for if discovered a new element that certainly means I can build a fusion plant. Or perhaps if I was a physicist that works on bipedal robotics, that of course means I can build a stationary orbital ecosystem. Just like if I had the technology of a time machine, that must of COURSE mean that I am wasting my time when my Earth-maker 3000 is just sitting there unused while Mars keeps orbiting as if to taunt me.

There isn't a balm, a rub, or an oral laxative that can purge total moronic behavior.

So even though we've been sending stuff to Mars since 30+ years ago and people to the moon since almost 40 years ago, it's more believeable that time travel, which is nothing but theory right now, is more attainable than sending people back to the moon or to Mars?
Yes you are right. Nothing can cure such moronic thinking and behavior.

Ahh but maybe you're right. Maybe traveling through dimensions and time is easier than traveling in space. Maybe it takes less energy to create two 500 pound black holes than it does to make a rocket. Maybe it's easier to create a gravitational field that's so strong that it's able to bend light yet so precise that you're not affected despite being feet if not inches away than it is to create a greenhouse.

And as stated before, money has no value except what is put on it. In an environment recovering from total nuclear war, people's skills have more value than a dollar bill.... scientists will get fed, they will get what they need becausethe people need them to make life easier. People need them to clean the water, to fix the radiation poisoning the environment, to find ways to make life better. Money isn't an object in such a society... and the society itself would be far different from the corporate bloaty pizza-hogs of today.

Great! So you do agree with me that cleaning the water, fixing the radiation, etc. would be higher on the priority list than worrying about time travel. I knew you'd see the light

Look at every major war. What happened?
Inflation.
Why?
Because money does matter. More of it is printed during wars and it's aftermath because it's still needed. It's the the object of the society, but it's still necessary. Name any point in human history where a society was built and the people not compensated for their labor (excluding slavery).


[edit on 23-2-2006 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Your post is hillarious Crystal

Personal attacks = a sign of desperation

Or what you are saying is so painful to me that I can't seem to gather my politeness.

So, do you understand that MWT is more likely under String Theory and Quantum Mechanics? MWT states there is no such thing as paradox because Time Travel itself doesn't exist, merely dimensional travel to similar environments to the past.

Talking to the wrong person. Talk to the Titor character.

Except I am responding to nonsense you were saying. You feel that it is realistic to have Paradox because you don't understand temporal theories present in thecurrent day.

Or they could just go into the future and not worry about that stuff.

Yes, because if the present is screwed and Mankind is assured to die off, then going into the future would CERTAINLY be a better solution than gathering the means to rebuild society.

But seriously, get real man. If you had a hundred dollars, would you put that money toward developing something that's just based on theories and will likely not work or feed your family.

A hundred dollars doesn't matter, if the person can do something to help society recover it is then the responsibility of society to support that person. If someone was developing a method for removing radiation from groundwater in such a situation as Titor described, if I could help somehow I would. When the world is gone to crap, you only have hope.

I think you were trying to be funny here, but....

Only with the last part of the sentance, and not so much funny as referencing a video game.

Are you a prophet?
Tell us why should anyone believe you over Einstein?

No I'm not a prophet, and neither was Einstein. Are you usually this banal? Einstein can be incorrect you know.

As for the following, here, let me HELP you since you are reading into it what you want...

JT: "There is no large industrial complex creating masses of useless food and recreational items."

JT: "In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe . The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won."

Prove he meant every city and was not using U.S. cities in a general sense of the metropolitan complexes suchas New York, D.C., etc.

JT: "Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around."

Guess you just skipped over those parts eh?

Listen here, chuckles. Reliable technology is different from NO technology.

Titor said that by changing someone's past, you may not mess up your worldline, but you do mess up theirs (did you read that part or do you need me to find that for you too

). Taking enough stuff from someone else's timeline to rebuild yours would surly **** things up.

And we care about this why? If we wanted to be ethical we'd take a little from as many worlds as we wanted, that way there is a spread of resources acquired without depleting any one worlds supply lines.

So even though we've been sending stuff to Mars since 30+ years ago and people to the moon since almost 40 years ago, it's more believeable that time travel, which is nothing but theory right now, is more attainable than sending people back to the moon or to Mars?
Yes you are right. Nothing can cure such moronic thinking and behavior.

You know absolutely nothing about the measure of energy it takes to launch something into orbit, do you?

On top of that, it *IS* a lot easier to smash particles together at such high velocities that it causes black holes than it is to launch a manned mission to the moon or mars or even to put a permanent human habitat into orbit.

Yes, yes it is more believable that time travel is possible than a post nuclear holocaust society launching anything into space.

Ahh but maybe you're right. Maybe traveling through dimensions and time is easier than traveling in space. Maybe it takes less energy to create two 500 pound black holes than it does to make a rocket. Maybe it's easier to create a gravitational field that's so strong that it's able to bend light yet so precise that you're not affected despite being feet if not inches away than it is to create a greenhouse.

What the heck are you? Do you even read much science news that isn't posted to slashdot? Do you understand field theory and event horizon? Do you have an inkling of how magnetics actually works?

Nevermind, you love having an opinion which is sorely undereducated, you're welcome to it.

Great! So you do agree with me that cleaning the water, fixing the radiation, etc. would be higher on the priority list than worrying about time travel. I knew you'd see the light

Which is why recovering the proper infrastructure of the past is essential to prevent a total collapse of human society, at least in the scenario presented by Titor.

Look at every major war. What happened?
Inflation.
Why?

Not for the reasons YOU think.



[edit on 2/24/2006 by TheCrystalSword]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Look what happened after WW2. You had the UN put in place to prevent that sort of thing from happening again and to unify the world more. .

Do you think the UN is doing a good job ? When I view the world today, it doesn't seem unified to me. Rogue countries will build a bomb no matter what. Nothing will prevent them from pushing their buttons if they want.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
And you most importantly you had the Cold War. Competition is a wonderful thing.

Exactly right, but in my view before 2015, technology will take a leap, due to competition, Civil War and there after.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
After Titor's war, every continent is affected. All the major superpowers have basically been destroyed. Who's going to pour billions of dollars into their economies to help rebuild?

Yes every continent is affected, but not all destroyed. example: Brazil, parts of Russia and South Africa should shift the overall balance, future shifting alliances would form a multipolar system after Titor's war. Yes they will pour money into economic, community building, and environmental issues for strategic reasons to gain balance and power through out.

In the future, super powers will be a thing of the past. This future multipolar balance will unify the world more than the UN could ever do.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
How long do you think that rebuilding process is going to last with half as many people working to rebuild? Titor mentions no cold war so who are we competing against that we waste billions of dollars that could be used for rebuilding or feeding the people on (until proven otherwise) pointless projects such as time travel?

Like I said before, not even half the American population is destroyed. Why rebuild areas that are unlivable? The world will be paranoid after such a massive attack. Money will be going into technology for significant reasons to prevent it from happening again. Projects such as time travel is thought out strategy for the future.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Would you approve of such a project? You have a dirty (radiation) disease filled nation. Your cities have been destroyed. With the cities gone that means most people's jobs are also gone. You have two choices, either help clean up and rebuild or build time machines that 1) really don't serve a purpose in helping to rebuild and restore order

Yes I would approve, and a multi-powerful world complex would approve as well, 100% if they know it is possible. I'm sure outside sources will help fund such a project. Do you think a country should just shut down after war, put up a sign with, sorry we are closed, we don't need your business or money ?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
(as Titor stated many times - if you go back and try to change something, you're just changing something on a different timeline, not yours)

Thats right but...........
World lines appear to “converge” again and look very similar. So if you go back and change something, depending on your divergence it could effect your future. One could exchange information from world line to world line. This would be a preferred area of living, world lines being connected through time travel.

Actually, junglejake points this out in his last post, though it would make another you in life a lot easier.

The worldlines where there is no connection of time travel, would be like having a computer with NO Internet.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
2) even if time travel was discovered tomorrow, there's NO WAY it can be perfected in just 30 years! Let alone two as Titor suggested.

Nazi Germany thought that way about the bomb.



[edit on 24-2-2006 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Personal attacks = a sign of desperation

Therefore, from now we will call you: Master of Desperation!

Congratulations!



[edit on 24-2-2006 by UnExpecte]

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Or what you are saying is so painful to me that I can't seem to gather my politeness.

Painful?
Saying time travel is a theory. Saying there likely won't be such a huge leap in technology after most of the world is destroyed and most people are dead is painful?
Well....yeah. The truth hurts sometimes.

Except I am responding to nonsense you were saying. You feel that it is realistic to have Paradox because you don't understand temporal theories present in thecurrent day.

lol, the current theories came into place because they simply gave up trying to explain everything.
Parallel universes
At what point do parallel universes begin to differ? Why?
How do you test this theory?

JT: As a time traveler it would be easy for me to take a short hike up that hill where the RADAR operators were and point out to them that indeed the equipment was working just fine and they should probably call it in. Assuming they believed me, it is arguable that my lone single action could start a chain of events that would allow the US to meet the Japanese planes and stop them from attacking the battleships. As a result, the US people would still be angry but not motivated to enter the war fully since the Japanese were not a perceived threat. Thus, you don't begin research on the atomic bomb until well after Hitler has already dropped a couple on London.

I could save thousands of men on the Arizona at the cost of millions in London. I just don't know how one life will affect another.


Anyway, why are there threads 100s of pages long devoted to Titor? We obviously don't live in his world so what's all the talk about? He's not from this worldline.
And how did Titor supposedly get to a similar worldline (ours) with supposedly only a 1-2% divergence?
If there are infinite possibilities and worldlines, the chances of him ever getting to this worldline are extremely small. Oh and that 2% is huge. If there's a 2% difference of your DNA what does that mean? You're not even human anymore. Same thing here.

Yes, because if the present is screwed and Mankind is assured to die off, then going into the future would CERTAINLY be a better solution than gathering the means to rebuild society.

Sure. You're not going to your future, you're going to someone else's right?

A hundred dollars doesn't matter, if the person can do something to help society recover it is then the responsibility of society to support that person. If someone was developing a method for removing radiation from groundwater in such a situation as Titor described, if I could help somehow I would. When the world is gone to crap, you only have hope.

When the world has gone to crap, your survival instincts will kick in. That's human nature. You're going to assure the survival of you and your family first.
That hundred dollars thing was an example.

And again, thank you for realizing worrying about what's going on now such as removing radiation is more important than doing silly things like time travel (which would create more radiation)

No I'm not a prophet, and neither was Einstein. Are you usually this banal? Einstein can be incorrect you know.

I asked a simple question?
You can't be incorrect also?

Prove he meant every city and was not using U.S. cities in a general sense of the metropolitan complexes suchas New York, D.C., etc.

Well there's a 10 year civil war against the cities and then a nuclear attack against the cities. I'm pretty sure most cities would be messed up after 15 or so years of attacks against them. And no Titor wasn't talking about every little city in the US, but guess what? Those little cities don't employ millions upon millions of people. The big cities do. Those little cities aren't where our trade occurs. The big cities are. Those little cities aren't where the decisions on state and governmental affairs occur. The big cities are.

question: Were only cities along the Eastern US hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?

JT: Cities and large military areas in the entire country.

question: would still like to know what population makes a city big.

JT: Cities become targets because of their military and economic value. Any large area supported by a civil infrastructure is likely to be on that list.

Listen here, chuckles. Reliable technology is different from NO technology.

Where did I say "no technology"?

re·li·a·ble
adj.
1. Capable of being relied on; dependable: a reliable assistant; a reliable car.
2. Yielding the same or compatible results in different clinical experiments or statistical trials.

Not reliable would mean the exact opposite.

So if reliable technology is scarce to non exsistent....how are they able to 1) research time travel 2) conduct experiments in time travel 3) perfect time travel 4) perfect time travel enough to send a human through time 5) research the creation of a time machine 6) build that time machine 7) test that time machine 8) perfect that time machine 9) perfect that time machine enough to send a human in it 10) build more than one of these perfected time machines?

*snickers*

And we care about this why? If we wanted to be ethical we'd take a little from as many worlds as we wanted, that way there is a spread of resources acquired without depleting any one worlds supply lines.

More proof Titor and his friends were the bad guys.

Yes, let's alter as many worldlines as we can just so we can benefit!

You know absolutely nothing about the measure of energy it takes to launch something into orbit, do you?

Actually I do.

On top of that, it *IS* a lot easier to smash particles together at such high velocities that it causes black holes than it is to launch a manned mission to the moon or mars or even to put a permanent human habitat into orbit.

.......

I want to laugh here, but I'm seriously about to cry.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong so could you please explain. And we're talking about black holes that would be crucial to time travel here.
Please explain your statement.

Yes, yes it is more believable that time travel is possible than a post nuclear holocaust society launching anything into space.

You're kidding right?
Again, I don't know whether to laugh or cry, so I'll ask again...
Explain.

What the heck are you? Do you even read much science news that isn't posted to slashdot? Do you understand field theory and event horizon? Do you have an inkling of how magnetics actually works?

Yes I do understand all of that!
You obviously don't if you think a post nuclear world can just do all that Titor said out of the blue. That's what we're talking about here. Not the possibility of these things happeneing, but the possibility of them happening when the world is basically destroyed!

Nevermind, you love having an opinion which is sorely undereducated, you're welcome to it.

Ok genius, tell me where I'm wrong?
All I have said is that time travel (unlikely as it is) is HIGHLY unlikely in a world that has been completely devestated.
You have yet to give me a reason not to believe that.

Which is why recovering the proper infrastructure of the past is essential to prevent a total collapse of human society, at least in the scenario presented by Titor.

You have yet to give an answer to why they would waste time and money testing theories that will likely not work instead of using that time and money to build the here and now.

Not for the reasons YOU think.

That's your answer?


********
X:

Do you think the UN is doing a good job ? When I view the world today, it doesn't seem unified to me. Rogue countries will build a bomb no matter what. Nothing will prevent them from pushing their buttons if they want.

I'm not talking about now. The UN is basically useless now.

Exactly right, but in my view before 2015, technology will take a leap, due to competition, Civil War and there after.

If it were to leap, it wouldn't leap to the point where we're suddenly time traveling.
Sure weapons and medicine would get better as that's what the factions would be putting time and energy into.

Yes every continent is affected, but not all destroyed. example: Brazil, parts of Russia and South Africa should shift the overall balance, future shifting alliances would form a multipolar system after Titor's war. Yes they will pour money into economic, community building, and environmental issues for strategic reasons to gain balance and power through out.

In the future, super powers will be a thing of the past. This future multipolar balance will unify the world more than the UN could ever do.

Thanks for clearing that up Titor

Like I said before, not even half the American population is destroyed. Why rebuild areas that are unlivable? The world will be paranoid after such a massive attack. Money will be going into technology for significant reasons to prevent it from happening again. Projects such as time travel is thought out strategy for the future.

Money would be going into technology that cleans the earth at the present, not into testing theories that may or may not help.

All the major cities of the US were built where they are for mostly economic regions. Why do you think most are built along a major waterways? Easy access to resources, easy access to trade. That's why you clean those areas to rebuild there.

Yes I would approve, and a multi-powerful world complex would approve as well, 100% if they know it is possible. I'm sure outside sources will help fund such a project. Do you think a country should just shut down after war, put up a sign with, sorry we are closed, we don't need your business or money ?

1. They don't know it's possible.
2. Who said anything about shutting down? Putting your funds into theories such as time travel instead of rebuilding and cleaning up would essentially be the same as shutting your country down.

question: Which country gets the worst in the war?

JT: Again, the entire world is affected. Even if you don't take a direct hit, dying crops and no water can ruin your day.

question: How do most people die during the war?

JT: In this order: Starvation - Disease - Bullet Wounds - Radiation.

Again, you're saying that instead of feeding people, curing diseases, and cleaning raditation you would support a project that would take billions of dollars just to test a theory?

I don't think there is any reason to worry, because JT is a hoax.

check this out....





quote: Originally posted by antipigopolist
Just some of the info that outs John Titor as a fraud:

"John Titor predicts CERN to create black holes" taken from anamolies.net (note the post date)


quote:
John Titor
Member
Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 78

snip....

The source of power for the C204 that allows it to distort and manipulate gravity comes from two microsingularities that were created, captured and cleaned at a much larger and “circular” facility. The dual event horizons of each one and their mass is manipulated by injecting electrons onto the surface of their respective ergospheres. The electricity comes from batteries. The breakthrough that will allow for this technology will occur within a year or so when CERN brings their larger facility online.

snip....

02-01-2001 08:36 AM Profile My Posts Edit IP: Logged



Now, if you look at the CERN Courier and click on the Discovering new dimensions at LHC written on 7 March 2000 you'll find that this information was available for almost a year prior to John's "prediction". Also note that the breaktrough that allows for his "technology" that he supposed was to happen at the larger CERN facility (the Large Hadron Collider or LHC) within a year from when he posted did not come to pass. In fact, the LHC does not even come "online" until sometime in 2007.

He was also asked what the Ginger invention was and some have lauded it as proof. Again...considering this drawing of Ginger was available on the net in 2000 it's not to hard to reason what "IT" was. And authors of other articles written a few weeks prior to JT being asked what "IT" was, were pretty sure it was a some type of scooter by deductive reasoning when going over patents held by Kamen. It was a safe bet if one just did a web search for the most logical answer.


so if the cern and ginger info was readily available, can anyone list out what JT posted that has given any one any reason to believe ?

and do any of the believers still eat red meat, drive cars or live in the US near a big city ?

txs

That's Just Weird:

I come to understand that you do not accept any modern scientific theories which support the idea of time travel and MWT. Regardless of how many scientists or people spend their lives working in the fields of Quantum Theory or String Theory. You ignore possible science as fluff, and do not appear to have an understanding of differing temporal theories such as the possible theory that time travel to the future is impossible, a theory I don't ascribe to but which is one of the popular models of the time.

You ridicule the concepts of parallel universes without understanding that, rather than coming into being from particular events, every possible outcome already pre-exists it's conditions. This is one understanding of MWT, feel free to call it crap science as it is just a theory.

You ask how Titor got to a worldline not his own. Do you even recall that he stated the further from the point of origin the more divergence happens from your original worldline? It is difficult to predict what will happen in the future, far easier to know what happened in the past. Travelling to the future to acquire advanced technology or devices you need could be prohibitively more difficult than knowing what resources you need to get and having the means to retrieve them from thepast.

But you will ignore this, because it pleases you to think that developing time travel to rebuild society is utter nonsense and you will not be convinced no matter what anyone says to you.

And you ignore that you claimed there were no factories, when titor stated there weren't any spewing out useless garbage to make life more comfortable.

Concerning reliable technology, Titor stated they didn't have any just laying around, not that there was none. I don't think the infrastructur of CERN would have been effected at all from the Nuclear war, considering where it is located currently. Which means that the black holes, at the least, would be developed. Remember, there is a goodly number of scientific teams who work in remote locations to cities. Science doesn't stop just because a huge chunk of mankind was wiped out. Whatever power structure emerged would have realized the need for science to move forward if mankind was to survive...

But you can and will most likely ignore most of that, because it suits you to do so... because you prefer to. So really, I see no reason to talk to you in specific. When someone makes a point, chuckles, you just laugh and act like their point is either junk science or they don't know what they're talking about.

The infrastructure described to build the time machine is far easier than building an infrastructure in space. The ISS cost in the hundreds of billions of dollars, perhaps more by now. CERN specifically, and any science which might effectively utilize any discoveries made from CERN, will likely cost far... far less.

The amount of effort and expertise it takes to maintain an effective space program, MUCH LESS try and put a colony on the moon or mars, or even get a person to walk on other celestial bodies, is far more exhorbitant than developing a single, focused technology I would imagine. Space travel involves a good deal more than anything done on a terrestrial level, and will always cost high and above more in general manpower than anything else, provided nothing like a space elevator gets put up which drastically reduces the costs, but the initial price of putting such a thing in spaceis high.

But, you'll feel free to ignore that, because you don't know me and it suits you to believe in your version of reality. So keep posting without knowing what you're talking about, keep pretending like you are some form of expert on all of this, because nobody knows as much as the great TJW... and nobody can.

Syrinx High Priest: That information does not prove him to be a hoax, it only proves that he had the information when other people could have. Just because information is out there doesn't mean a person is lying.

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
I come to understand that you do not accept any modern scientific theories which support the idea of time travel and MWT. Regardless of how many scientists or people spend their lives working in the fields of Quantum Theory or String Theory. You ignore possible science as fluff, and do not appear to have an understanding of differing temporal theories such as the possible theory that time travel to the future is impossible, a theory I don't ascribe to but which is one of the popular models of the time.

The key word in all that you've just said is "theory"
Not reality.
If it was reality then sure, there's a very slim chance that humans would be able to time travel 30 years from now. But it's not reality. You can spout off as many theories as you want. Who cares!? Saying something doesn't make it reality and that's what we're talking about here with Titor.

You ask how Titor got to a worldline not his own. Do you even recall that he stated the further from the point of origin the more divergence happens from your original worldline?[/quoite]
No I asked how he got to a supposedly similar worldline. One so similar he thought for sure the same things that happened to him would happen to us. It doesn't matter how far back you travel if there are an infinite number of worldlines, the chances of you reaching one that's almost exactly like yours are not very great. You have as good or better chance of ending up in a worldline where everyone is green

Travelling to the future to acquire advanced technology or devices you need could be prohibitively more difficult than knowing what resources you need to get and having the means to retrieve them from thepast.

lmao!
If you need water, you need water! If you need food, you need food!
These are the things the people in Titor's time need.

But you will ignore this, because it pleases you to think that developing time travel to rebuild society is utter nonsense and you will not be convinced no matter what anyone says to you.

You still haven't answered my question (good).
Let's expand it a bit.
If you have enough money to feed 1000 people who are starving (the number 1 cause of death in Titor's time is starvation). Will you use that money to buy or grow food, or use it to fund a project that is based purely on theories?
If you say to fund that project then YES it is complete and utter nonsense.

And you ignore that you claimed there were no factories, when titor stated there weren't any spewing out useless garbage to make life more comfortable.

Food is useless garbage?

Anyway, let's ignore Titor's words for a second and say there are factories. Hundreds of them (spewing out even more dirt into the air). What do you think they're doing?
They would be used to build houses and buildings. Maybe even cars. Not time traveling machines

Concerning reliable technology, Titor stated they didn't have any just laying around, not that there was none. I don't think the infrastructur of CERN would have been effected at all from the Nuclear war, considering where it is located currently.

Transportation of that technology would have been affected.
As well as developing that technology in other areas. Funding for such a project would also have been affected.

Which means that the black holes, at the least, would be developed.

You're not going to explain the whole black hole thing are you?
Such has how did the magically come up with the technology to create mini black holes? How did they magically come up with the technology to create mini black holes that last more than a second? How did they magically come up with the technology to actually use black holes in the time travel process?

Remember, there is a goodly number of scientific teams who work in remote locations to cities. Science doesn't stop just because a huge chunk of mankind was wiped out.

Scientists are people. Meaning they have beliefs, they have feelings, they have families.
No science doesn't stop, but it would be greatly affected if a huge chunk of mankind was wiped out in the way Titor says it will be.

Whatever power structure emerged would have realized the need for science to move forward if mankind was to survive...

Yes and that science would be geared toward cleaning the earth and ensuring the survival of the human race.

The infrastructure described to build the time machine is far easier than building an infrastructure in space. The ISS cost in the hundreds of billions of dollars, perhaps more by now. CERN specifically, and any science which might effectively utilize any discoveries made from CERN, will likely cost far... far less.

The amount of effort and expertise it takes to maintain an effective space program, MUCH LESS try and put a colony on the moon or mars, or even get a person to walk on other celestial bodies, is far more exhorbitant than developing a single, focused technology I would imagine. Space travel involves a good deal more than anything done on a terrestrial level, and will always cost high and above more in general manpower than anything else, provided nothing like a space elevator gets put up which drastically reduces the costs, but the initial price of putting such a thing in spaceis high.

You do realize we're talking about time travel here right?

Forget the research into time travel for a second.
Once you finally actually build a time machine, the trial and error alone is going to cost you billions

As for the research and eventually development...it's 100x more comlicated than rocket science.
I'll get into details in a bit, but for now
en.wikipedia.org... (horrible source I know, but I have to go now)

But, you'll feel free to ignore that, because you don't know me and it suits you to believe in your version of reality. So keep posting without knowing what you're talking about, keep pretending like you are some form of expert on all of this, because nobody knows as much as the great TJW... and nobody can.

My version of reality?
You still haven't given me a good reason why I should stop believing that time travel being perfected in 10 or less years after a nuclear war and the decimation of the human race is a stretch.
Give me one good reason why I should believe that! That's all I'm asking.

Like I said, you don't care to debate this. You only feel the way you feel. You believe in one narrow, specific interpretation of Titor's words... you refuse to accept that there is any other interpretation that is acceptable, you state again and again what you feel you know absolutely about economics, science, field theory, time travel, and you approach the topic being discussed with as narrow a world view as those who claim Titor is absolutely true.

You lack perspective, and as such, it is a useless waste of time to even speak with you. People answer your questions, but you don't feel that they did so you keep asking them while ignoring whole sections of arguments because they do not appeal to what you think. You are only in this topic to try and prove people wrong, you aren't here to discuss anything. You've come to the table witha biased, blind, and unmoving viewpoint which does not accept new information or the possibility that you may know horsecrap about the subjects you're discussing.

So really, it is futile for anyone to talk to you on this particular subject.... other subjects, I have no clue, but this one subject, you and Syrinx should be ignored on.

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Like I said, you don't care to debate this. You only feel the way you feel. You believe in one narrow, specific interpretation of Titor's words... you refuse to accept that there is any other interpretation that is acceptable, you state again and again what you feel you know absolutely about economics, science, field theory, time travel, and you approach the topic being discussed with as narrow a world view as those who claim Titor is absolutely true.

You lack perspective, and as such, it is a useless waste of time to even speak with you. People answer your questions, but you don't feel that they did so you keep asking them while ignoring whole sections of arguments because they do not appeal to what you think. You are only in this topic to try and prove people wrong, you aren't here to discuss anything. You've come to the table witha biased, blind, and unmoving viewpoint which does not accept new information or the possibility that you may know horsecrap about the subjects you're discussing.

So really, it is futile for anyone to talk to you on this particular subject.... other subjects, I have no clue, but this one subject, you and Syrinx should be ignored on.

You show that you fully understand TJW, it's impossible to have a discussion with him, it's plainly impossible. He won't consider anything we will say, he just stay in his own way of thinking.

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Syrinx High Priest: That information does not prove him to be a hoax, it only proves that he had the information when other people could have. Just because information is out there doesn't mean a person is lying.

1) he posted the tech at cern that leads to the devices he used to travel in time would be online in a year. it is still not online 6 years later.. thats the point. how do you explain that ?
2) can you address the weight and cooling issues I've posted about ? how do explain the incredible differences in scale ?

3) the other point is his "prediction" is something that was known in technical circles, so it really carries little to no weight in validating his story.

4) and if you do believe him do you eat red meat ? do you live near a big city ? did you buy your bike tires yet ?

if no, why not ?

there is no need to worry, because he is a hoax

here's a little nugget for ya;

The opinion of many senior staff and members of AboveTopSecret.com on the writings and postings of timetravel_0 a.k.a. "John Titor" is that he is a hoax, and in no way a time traveler of any type. We offer this material as part of an archive so that analysis and discussion may continue, in an effort for full disclosure and understanding

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Look what happened after WW2. You had the UN put in place to prevent that sort of thing from happening again and to unify the world more.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I'm not talking about now. The UN is basically useless now.

Oh! then why even mention it ?
Why did you say "You had the UN put in place to prevent that sort of thing from happening again."
I think you are talking about now "happening again."
When you realize the truth, do you have issues, lol.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Sure weapons and medicine would get better as that's what the factions would be putting time and energy into.

Look at the past and you will see the future.
I'm sure there will be time and money invested in such a project of time travel.
Edward Teller persuaded FDR and Einstein about the uses of uranium during war, right.
What is to stop a future scientist doing the same during war.

If it is shown that it will work, then why not agree on time travel being completed.
You seem to agree weapons would get better along with medicine, so why not time travel.

What if time travel is on the verge of being possible, then boom! WW3 delays the process. 19 years later it is completed. It seems 19 years is plenty of time to rebuild doesn't it. A multipolar system would have plenty of time to invest into it.

Again look at New Orleans, partying months later after Katrina hit.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Thanks for clearing that up Titor

What is that, a compliment lol.
If that was true, I would be getting off on G-string theory about now in another world line lol.

Plus we all know you are Titor or it's syrinx high priest. Ah! the time machine must of broken down, Your ticked because you can't go back home or make money off of it, you must of destroyed the thing in fear of the feds catching you with it.

All these Titor wannabe create movies, webpages, ext... and you get nothing in return lol. Now your favorite past time is hanging out on forums raging people about your former self being a hoax.

It must suck that nobody cares for you in the future too lol.

You did a good job of covering your tracks.

*******************************************************************

syrinx high priest, you are going to drive someone crazy............
Your last few post are repeats, they have been addressed in this thread, and in others.
Just go back a few pages and read lol.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1) he posted the tech at cern that leads to the devices he used to travel in time would be online in a year. it is still not online 6 years later.. thats the point. how do you explain that ?
2) can you address the weight and cooling issues I've posted about ? how do explain the incredible differences in scale ?

3) the other point is his "prediction" is something that was known in technical circles, so it really carries little to no weight in validating his story.

4) and if you do believe him do you eat red meat ? do you live near a big city ? did you buy your bike tires yet ?

I think I have answered these question a few hundred times to you, I will keep it short this time lol.

1. Not all world lines are the same. In fact, Titor was referring about his world line not ours. Events can be delayed though.

2. The machine itself changes gravity making black holes come to you...... No one can assume that each of Titor's black holes weighed 100 kg (220 lbs) lol.....

3. He really did not make to many "predictions" in our world line. You must be hanging around in the wrong technical circles. Titor was only giving us a warnings, not making predictions.

4. You must be a meat eater, living in the city of fear. Riding a bike is better than walking after a E bomb or EMP from a nuclear explosion.

5. repeat 1-4

To bad your little nugget has no proof as of yet....................

I think I'm finished repeating myself lol.
32606


[edit on 25-2-2006 by XPhiles]

"events can be delayed"

as far as explanations go, that is the weakest yet.

you have been reading titor so much, you are using his favorite techniques to avoid questions. I eat red meat, work in NYC, and don't even own a bike.

how about YOU ?

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Like I said, you don't care to debate this. You only feel the way you feel. You believe in one narrow, specific interpretation of Titor's words... you refuse to accept that there is any other interpretation that is acceptable, you state again and again what you feel you know absolutely about economics, science, field theory, time travel, and you approach the topic being discussed with as narrow a world view as those who claim Titor is absolutely true.

You lack perspective, and as such, it is a useless waste of time to even speak with you. People answer your questions, but you don't feel that they did so you keep asking them while ignoring whole sections of arguments because they do not appeal to what you think. You are only in this topic to try and prove people wrong, you aren't here to discuss anything. You've come to the table witha biased, blind, and unmoving viewpoint which does not accept new information or the possibility that you may know horsecrap about the subjects you're discussing.

So really, it is futile for anyone to talk to you on this particular subject.... other subjects, I have no clue, but this one subject, you and Syrinx should be ignored on.

You show that you fully understand TJW, it's impossible to have a discussion with him, it's plainly impossible. He won't consider anything we will say, he just stay in his own way of thinking.

(sorry for the large quote mods)

You're right. This isn't a discussion.
This is a one sided debate.
I have challenged you to present your side of the discussion and you both continue to refuse.
You all keep saying I'm wrong but you have yet to tell me what I'm wrong about!
wtf is that!?


So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make it real simple for you all and just ask one question I want answered (since you all obviously don't have the brain compacity to handle mutiple questions - - see I can make personal attacks too )


Why?

That's my question.

Why should I believe you?

You're telling me that in just 10-15 years after wars ravage the earth. 40+% of the human population is wiped out (this is equal to or more than what happened during the Dark Ages when Black Death wrecked havoc on global affairs and lifestyles). Technology (according to Titor) is scarce. Food is scarce. Clean water is scarce. The air is dirty. The world (especially the US's) economic scene is a mess (according to Titor). You're telling me with all that going on, that somehow a theory which isn't even guarenteed to be true (I mean it is very possible that time travel is impossible period) is somehow developed and perfected enough to be of value? All the scientists that would be needed to research and develop such technology were all unaffected by the 20+ years of war? All the resources needed to research and develop such technology was unafffected by the 20+ years of war?
Why?
Why should I believe that?

No, I'm not just going to believe that. Until you give me a reason otherwise I'm going to continue to be in shock that there are actually human beings, who claim to have intelligence, that are so gullible as to believe that.





I have more questions about time travel itself (the amount of energy and resources needed just to time travel, etc., not even including what you would need to build a time machine). Questions about how they're suddenly able to defy current laws of physics such as Hawkings Radiation, etc. But I'll wait until I see if you can answer the simple question above first.

I just sent this e-mail to johntitor.com

I'll let you know if they respond, and give me permission to post the reply

hey there,
you have the power to prove JT's authenticity.

Would you be willing to give legal permission to the ISP he used to post to publish the IP address(s) he used ?

I'd also like to know if you would let them publish the data he entered for his profile, the address, name, etc.

Would you allow them to publish the physical street addresses associated with the IP addesses ?

it could be distributed via ATS or some other site. You would give permission, set some guidelines, but not actually handle the data yourselves.

just curious

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
"events can be delayed"

as far as explanations go, that is the weakest yet.
you have been reading titor so much, you are using his favorite techniques to avoid questions. I eat red meat, work in NYC, and don't even own a bike.

how about YOU ?

It can't be as weak as repeating your questions over and over.
How am I avoiding your question ? "events can be delayed" What is wrong with that answer ?

To even further imagine what I'm saying you could look into Delayed choice quantum eraser. In which would lead you to Everett's many-worlds interpretation.

Is it possible you are in the trash bin of world lines lol. Is your memory being deleted.

I have told you before, in the middle of nowhere, far from cities. My IP probably would point toward Tx.

****************************************************

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I have challenged you to present your side of the discussion and you both continue to refuse.

I challenge you to review my post again, then tell me how I "refused" to present my side of the discussion to you directly lol.

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
People answer your questions, but you don't feel that they did so you keep asking them while ignoring whole sections of arguments because they do not appeal to what you think.

I think TheCrystalSword summed it up pretty much.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Why?

That's my question.

Why should I believe you?

I have answered your question several times.
Whether you believe or not, is up to you. I have presented you my side of the discussion.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
No, I'm not just going to believe that. Until you give me a reason otherwise I'm going to continue to be in shock that there are actually human beings, who claim to have intelligence, that are so gullible as to believe that.

I wouldn't believe that either, reason is your twisting the discussion and misquoting.
Yes! I would be in shock, if intelligent humans believe your gabfest in disregard of our answers to you. lol

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I have more questions about time travel itself (the amount of energy and resources needed just to time travel, etc., not even including what you would need to build a time machine).

We certainly wouldn't want to give you any details on building a time machine, since you are on the enemy side.

You need to join the Rebels side of story and step away from Imperialist brain washing machine lol. America was once built by Rebels, get back to your history roots and join the good side.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
But I'll wait until I see if you can answer the simple question above first.

If you look past your above question, you will find my answers.

32606

[edit on 26-2-2006 by XPhiles]

My post wasn't necessarily directed at you X.
You're civilized

But, this goes for you, Crystal, and Vit.
Just briefly sum up your side again and tell me why yours is more believable.

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
People answer your questions, but you don't feel that they did so you keep asking them while ignoring whole sections of arguments because they do not appeal to what you think.

If I have skipped something it was either by accident or to save time as whatever I skipped was talked about already.
I don't think I've skipped too much (I know I haven't skipped more than you all), especially not anything relevant. If I have please show me and I'll address it as it likely wasn't on purpose.

I wouldn't believe that either, reason is your twisting the discussion and misquoting.

What have I misquoted?
I'm taking quotes directly from
Johntitor.com
And the ATS research page.

You all several times have taken Titor's words out of context or twisted them and said that's what he meant.
How do you know?
Are you Titor?

We certainly wouldn't want to give you any details on building a time machine, since you are on the enemy side.

Define enemy?
If you mean I'm on the side that doesn't advocate the cold blooded murder of billions of innocent people then yes I'm that side.

You need to join the Rebels side of story and step away from Imperialist brain washing machine lol. America was once built by Rebels, get back to your history roots and join the good side.

1. Define "good"
2. Not once ever in this thread did I ever give support to anything imperialistic so where did you get that from?
Just because I don't think time travel will be discovered and perfected in less than 20 years after a nuclear war destroys the world means I fully support the US government?
Care to explain that? (I can't wait for this explanation).
3. With all that said, I'd like to think we've grown more civilized in the past 200+ years. I'd like to think we can settle our differences through civilized means. No matter how you may feel about our government now, trying to overthrow it through violence and civil war will just make things worse. I guarentee it. Destoying this country will in NO WAY make things better.
These "rebels" claim to be fighting for the people. Then why the **** did you just murder 130 MILLION of them!!!!
And don't give me that "there was no choice" crap. No, there's always a choice! There's always a better way. They just didn't feel like looking for that better way. They choose the way of war and death, destroying this country in the process. Inviting a country to nuke them.....what kind of crap is that. I don't care what you're fighting for, there's no way I'll support that or any one who advocates that.
Our founding fathers had a reason to fight. They were fighting REAL oppression. You think what's going on now is oppression? You think you're losing your rights now?
Don't make me laugh. Pick up a history book.
Look at the history of this nation from before we fought for our freedom up through the 1960s. It's too bad people are either too young or too lazy to look this stuff up or remember it.

Now you are insinuating that I have not been civil. Just because I feel that you've acted like a presumptuous fool doesn't mean I haven't been civil.

Secondly, I have answered your repetitive, irritating, assanying questions again and again. You have shown me to be incorrect in my recollection of the specific wording of Titor's statements several times, but you consistently and persistenly ignore my answers to your questions.

Why? Because it doesn't suit you.

I have absolutely no reason to even talk to you, or convince you of anything. I don't believe Titor to be a time traveller.... but I also don't believe you or Syrinx knows jack crap about any of the scientific fields that are involved in the Titor story. People pretending that they know something, especially about a field that hasn't even been invented yet, have got to be the most arrogant and irritating people in the world. At least to me.

Suffice it to say, you make statements as if you know and understand the science or usage of Time Travel. You make claims of what Time Travel would be used for, you make Statements of Time Travel being impossible or statements of it being ridiculous to develop time travel in a Post Nuclear world. Really, what is irritating is that you make statements at ALL... and then you demand others prove themselves, all the while you make statements as if somehow you posessed all the facts and were superior in knowledge to anyone who argues with you.

I don't see any reason for anyone to give you an answer, or even be polite to you in a discussion.