Israel agrees to 4-hour daily pauses in Gaza fighting to allow civilians to flee

A bit jingoistic perhaps, but we shall protect the Cenotaph, no matter the cost!

So er, what's a "Cenotaph"?

Aha, quick Google:

Cenotaph: Empty tomb or monument erected in honor of a person whose remains are lost or interred elsewhere

Yip, a perfect hill to die on.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Bingo.

That should be what Israel does. Maybe while they are futzing around with 4 hour window games that is what they are planning.

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a reply to: CaptainHalf

Actually, it's "the" Cenotaph.

Quite significant to us Brits:

www.english-heritage.org.uk...

originally posted by: BeyondKnowledge3
a reply to: derfreebie

I am not supporting the kill everyone mentality but why let the enemy have it easy every day to be able to fight back better?

The answer is right there in the topic post. They are intended for citizens who are able to flee. Gaza isn't a homogenous terrorist state. There are innocent people there. You are in error if you believe war has no room for compassion. Hamas will not go away even if they level the city. There has to be room for compassion if there is any hope for a ceasefire.

originally posted by: SourGrapes
So, a 4 hour ceasefire every day? What happens if Hamas attacks Israel during those four hours?

If Isreal stops shooting, what will the AST pro-Hamas crowd say if Hamas continues to attack? Will Israel FINALLY be justified in leveling Gaza and the West Bank?


Or, will they still scream "war crimes"?

Who is this pro-Hamas crowd? I have been here all day reading posts and I have yet to see one post saying Hamas is justified.

originally posted by: SourGrapes
I just want those ATS members who support Hamas (or, are yelling for a "ceasefire ") to say, right NOW whether they will continue to support Hamas (aka ceasefire) if Hamas attacks Irael during those four hours.

Will you please show me a post that openly supports Hamas on ATS? You are actually incorrect in your statements that supporting a ceasefire is the same thing as supporting Hamas.

I'm daring them to throw down their position, right here, right now.

My position to your posed hypothetical of Hamas breaking the ceasefire today is thusly: that will be yet another violation of human rights by Hamas.

If Hamas attacks Israel during the 4 hour daily window, will they FINALLY condemn Hamas, WITHOUT ALSO condemning Israel?

Yes.

Will Israel be justified in leveling Gaza?

You yourself answered the final question with your edit.

Edited, to add this: They won't.

originally posted by: EvanH
This is a mistake.

You never pause in battle or you will lose the initiative and momentum. You never let the enemy breath or give them a chance to reog, as it will give them the time to set up ambushes etc and resupply.

Israel needs to keep going until hamas is utterly destroyed from the river to the sea.

Sun Tzu would disagree wholeheartedly, and was he a military genius? The Art of War is used instructionally in US military academies.

The greatest victory is won without fighting a battle at all. How is victory achieved without fighting? A ceasefire if the first step.

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor

originally posted by: EvanH
This is a mistake.

You never pause in battle or you will lose the initiative and momentum. You never let the enemy breath or give them a chance to reog, as it will give them the time to set up ambushes etc and resupply.

Israel needs to keep going until hamas is utterly destroyed from the river to the sea.

Sun Tzu would disagree wholeheartedly, and was he a military genius? The Art of War is used instructionally in US military academies.

The greatest victory is won without fighting a battle at all. How is victory achieved without fighting? A ceasefire if the first step.

The people of the West Bank will be forced from their homes and the people say that while they are evacuating South that Israel still is shelling around them.

Gaza will be razed with the dead remaining within their aboveground concrete and stone graves.

Israel has cut off water, fuel, humanitarian aid and power and the deaths at hospital are now happening. Israel claims it will evacuate babies from hospitals but what about others that rely on machines to keep them alive? Where are the field hospitals and humanitarian aid behind IDFs lines - do the people still have to march South?

Netanyahu said after Hamas is destroyed the Palestinian people will not govern themselves, so we are at square one again with the same mindset that allows terrorist groups to emerge. While Israelies enjoy the law allowing them to return with full citizenship from anywhere and anytime, Palestinian people do not and may never be. Rules for thee, not for me will continue as always.

How can this be called war when one side has fighter jets, naval vessels and the best armaments from the U.S. while the other fights with homemade bombs and no high tech warfare?

There are both peaceful/anti-war/pro ceasefire and volatile/angry/traumatized/hateful protesters and counter-protesters, so let's make sure we draw the line between the two.

Pro-Hamas and anti-Semitic labels put on protesters are incorrect labels to use. Using these labels only further inflames and may incite the more extreme radicals who are pushing their hate agenda. Social media and some politicians use these labels to further incite division, hate and violence and push their political narrative perhaps to garner more voters. Don't fall for the propaganda, sift through many different sources to find what could be the truth.

Nobody is for Hamas and nobody is for Israel government's occupation and future plan to continue their occupation of those territories.

The majority of the world say 'Not in Our Name' 'Not in Our Time' 'Free Palestine' 'Stop the Genocide' 'Netanyahu Must Go' 'War Crimes; cameras expose the truth' and this is what some consider anti-semitic placards:

'Israel is the worst terror state in history - child killers, land grabbers, oppressors, zionists, liars'.

'No British politician should be a friend of Israel'

'From the River to the Sea' - which BTW originates from an old Israeli song/chant which supposedly means that Israel wants a total Israeli state throughout all the land with Palestinian people continuing in their miserable and suffering occupied state.

As for social media propaganda...twisted logic is not only reserved for Palestinians.

Is it gonna be like last time when they told all the civilians to go to one spot and then bombed that place when a sufficiently large crowd had gathered?

Poor people. If Hamas had a shred of honour they'd shelter non-combatants in those massive tunnels they built. But they don't so...

originally posted by: quintessentone

Nobody here is pro-Hamas that's something a lot of you people can't get past for some ungodly reason. Pro-Palestinian and anti-war and pro-ceasefire is what some of us here are taking a stand for. Sheesh the stupid it burns.

The problem is that it isn't that simple. The vast majority of the refugees there are pro-Hamas so what does that make them? Also, is it anti-war only when Israel is doing it? The only fix is to remove Hamas out of there and regain full control over the area. The 17 years of self-governing was a failure, time to start over and that means Hamas is gone.

You can take your stand all day, but what is the alternate choice here? Go back to the status quo in pretending like Hamsas isn't there and let them build up again to attack over and over.

originally posted by: Ohanka
Is it gonna be like last time when they told all the civilians to go to one spot and then bombed that place when a sufficiently large crowd had gathered?

Poor people. If Hamas had a shred of honour they'd shelter non-combatants in those massive tunnels they built. But they don't so...

What are you even talking about in both cases?

originally posted by: BiothermalReactor

The greatest victory is won without fighting a battle at all. How is victory achieved without fighting? A ceasefire if the first step.

So you and I are pointing guns at each other. You yell ceasefire and I say OK. You lower your gun and I then shoot you. That is Hamas...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

Nobody here is pro-Hamas that's something a lot of you people can't get past for some ungodly reason. Pro-Palestinian and anti-war and pro-ceasefire is what some of us here are taking a stand for. Sheesh the stupid it burns.

The problem is that it isn't that simple. The vast majority of the refugees there are pro-Hamas so what does that make them? Also, is it anti-war only when Israel is doing it? The only fix is to remove Hamas out of there and regain full control over the area. The 17 years of self-governing was a failure, time to start over and that means Hamas is gone.

You can take your stand all day, but what is the alternate choice here? Go back to the status quo in pretending like Hamsas isn't there and let them build up again to attack over and over.

You say pro-Hamas I say pro-liberty for Palestinians who have nobody else fighting for their freedoms and those people really have no say or power in any side and they never did, what would be your choice?

It certainly is not ideal having a terrorist? group fighting for you but what's the alternative living under another's occupation - define terrorist group? who institute open air prisons, imprisonment with no trials, imprisonment with humiliation, torture and sometimes killing at the hands of the guards, no jobs, lack of enough of everything - there was never any self-governing in the true sense - Rules for thee but not for me was the order of the day...it's amazing how some people turn a blind eye to others' sufferings because the can't or won't put themselves in their shoes. Hamas was put in place by Israel government and because of failed agreements, negotiations and a forever occupation and massacres on both sides, we are now back again to the same old situation.

One professor said there is only one solution and that would be Confederation. The capital city for all would be Jerusalem, Palestinine territories would have their own soverignty and laws with Israeli's allowed to be residents but would have to follow Palestinian laws and vice versa. Key word: soverignty, you don't have true self-government without it. Did you really think the Israeli leaders never thought of that, I know the did, and reject it because they have something else in mind for those territories, what else could it be?

originally posted by: quintessentone

How can this be called war when one side has fighter jets, naval vessels and the best armaments from the U.S. while the other fights with homemade bombs and no high tech warfare?

You are right it isn't a war...Israel is destroying a terrorist cell. Hamas doesn't need jets they just need 1000 men to come into Israel and kill everyone they can. Rape a few along the way and bring some dead girls back to parade them through the streets to a cheering crowd.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

How can this be called war when one side has fighter jets, naval vessels and the best armaments from the U.S. while the other fights with homemade bombs and no high tech warfare?

You are right it isn't a war...Israel is destroying a terrorist cell. Hamas doesn't need jets they just need 1000 men to come into Israel and kill everyone they can. Rape a few along the way and bring some dead girls back to parade them through the streets to a cheering crowd.

Have you ever researched what soldiers do during warfare, you don't have to be a terrorist to engage in terrorist activities. Just read what American soldiers did in vietnam.

www.ucpress.edu...#:~:text=The%20brutality%20has%20been%20well,thrown%20into%20ditches %20and%20executed.

originally posted by: quintessentone

You say pro-Hamas I say pro-liberty for Palestinians who have nobody else fighting for their freedoms and those people really have no say or power in any side and they never did, what would be your choice?

Well then protest Jordan and Egypt who put them where they are today. Neither country wanted them and especially Jordan should have assimilated them long ago as they are one and the same. They are not on their land, they are on the land they were pushed to, so there is no "my people have been here for 1000 years" If you wanted to make that point then we are talking deeper into Egypt as to any lands that they might claim as ancestral.

Hamas was put in place by Israel government and because of failed agreements, negotiations and a forever occupation and massacres on both sides, we are now back again to the same old situation.

As I said, time to start over, but the cancer needs to be removed first.

One professor said there is only one choice and that would be Confederation. The capital city for all would be Jerusalem, Palestinine territories would have their own soverignty and laws with Israeli's allowed to be residents but would have to follow Palestinian laws and vice versa. Key word: soverignty, you don't have true self-government without it.

Jews have been there for 4000 years... You are suggesting Israel stop being a sovereign country. How about Jordan and Egypt saying we will take them into our countries where they belong? Gaza had 17 years to get their act together to maybe even look at this, they failed big time and so yes we are back to square one. There is a level of brutality on the Muslim side that makes the Jews look like Boy Scouts, so that little world you want to see just isn't going to happen even if Israel agreed to it.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Have you ever researched what soldiers do during warfare, you don't have to be a terrorist to engage in terrorist activities. Just read what American soldiers did in vietnam.

I don't need to research I've been one since 1980... As to Vietnam, much was hyperbole as part of the anti-war movement. Kerry lied about everything he did or saw, for example. I do agree isolated cases happen, but when it comes to Muslims fighting it isn't isolated cases it is doctrine even when they fight their own kind.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

Have you ever researched what soldiers do during warfare, you don't have to be a terrorist to engage in terrorist activities. Just read what American soldiers did in vietnam.

I don't need to research I've been one since 1980... As to Vietnam, much was hyperbole as part of the anti-war movement. Kerry lied about everything he did or saw, for example. I do agree isolated cases happen, but when it comes to Muslims fighting it isn't isolated cases it is doctrine even when they fight their own kind.

The camera did not lie and that is what caused those anti-war protests in the U.S. The same thing is happening here but the horrific acts are committed from both sides.