Was Blowing Kakhovka Dam Part of the counter offensive?

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Are you all so blind to forget this stuff?

a reply to: mr-lizard

Good evening.

You can't destroy a dam with shelling or Himars or similar.

As Barnes Wallis proved.

Russia held the dam.

It's blatantly obvious they did it.

Why is there even any question about it?

a reply to: mr-lizard

There's none so blind as them that won't see.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I agree. Good evening. I'm arguing against the wobble-heads who think that Ukraine gains something by damaging their own counter-offensive and civilians ecology/safety/security by doing such a thing.

It's clearly Russia.
The only thing I don't know is if it's intentional or accidental.

a reply to: mr-lizard

Evening.

Yes, if it was all accidental like (as if!) then it was pretty good timing.

crazy to watch th usual garbage media try and spin it as though Russia did this to their own dam

can we all cancel this obnoxious war yet? collectively ignore this nonsense and for crying out loud... not another dime from the USA

So the Russian invasion of Ukraine started on 24 February 2022, on the 102th anniversary of the foundation of the NSDAP (The Nazi Party), and now they destroy this dam exactly the same day in which the Normandy landings took place 79 years ago.

And you guys still believe it’s just a coincidence?

I’m sorry, but it isn’t. They are the nazis, the Axis. All this happenings on this specific dates are warnings (or warning shots) made by what I call the Reactionary Conspiracy. I’m trying to explain it in a series of threads in the “General Conspiracies” forum.

I find it interesting that many of the same people blindly supporting Ukraine and repeating msm propaganda regarding the conflict behaved the exact same way in regards to the covid vaccine propaganda.

a reply to: Salamandy

Even more important than not sending money would be to repatriate all American soldiers destined in Europe, since this war seems designed to escalate into an all-out war that is going to destroy much of Europe.

a reply to: oddnutz

isnt that nature and intent of MSM propaganda?
Do you have another source?

originally posted by: Salamandy
crazy to watch th usual garbage media try and spin it as though Russia did this to their own dam

can we all cancel this obnoxious war yet? collectively ignore this nonsense and for crying out loud... not another dime from the USA

It's not Russia's own dam; it is Ukraine's. And destroying it means that the down river assaults that Russia worried about are much less likely and more difficult. Making the area a big mud pit helps the Russians on defense. It is defenders that generally destroy dams to make offensive mobile actions difficult.

And if you think the Russian army and government give a fig about their own people, let alone the Ukrainians who will be affected, you haven't been paying attention.

originally posted by: oddnutz
I find it interesting that many of the same people blindly supporting Ukraine and repeating msm propaganda regarding the conflict behaved the exact same way in regards to the covid vaccine propaganda.

No more interesting -- and less so even -- than the people who blindly support Russian, even though Russia was the invading country, and who have believed every wild conspiracy theory about and quack treatment for Covid. To be clear, I don't consider the lab leak theory to fall into that category. But thanks for going off topic.

originally posted by: Quintilian

originally posted by: vNex92
The Propaganda from the Hawkish Crowd is amusing...

Trying to frame and blame Russia as they tried with the North Stream Pipelines.

Ukraine still couldn't pull off the so called counter offensive.
Was blowing the Kakhovka Dam part of the counter offensive?

Highly Unlikely.

Got to wonder why the Russians wouldn't simply open the sluice gates if they wanted to flood the place? This is sounding similar to the "Russia blew up their own pipeline, despite simply needing to shut off the valve" (that we now know was blown by the US). Or to the genuinely idiotic claim that the Russians were shelling themselves at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.

Because with the onset of the Ukrainian offensive, the Russians don't think they will control the dam much longer, and wanted to take it and its power station out, and threaten the upstream nuclear plant as well. And sluice gates don't work as efficiently as blowing several large holes in the dam. And it would be obvious that they were opening the sluice gates. Blowing up the dam gives them some cover to claim they didn't do it. Not great cover, but some cover just the same.

As to the "idiotic claim" that the Russians were shelling themselves at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, UN inspection groups and the press found unexploded shells or missiles that clearly came from Russian lines. Furthermore the Russians could move their troops away from the target point, and then there is the fact that the Russians don't care a wit about using their troops as cannon fodder.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Seriously think on this one. Why has Zelenski come out to say Russia did it????? Why, as it would be in his own interest to claim Ukraine did it (no matter who did it) ie, his statement to the world "look at what we've done in our offensive, a major blow to Russia". It would bring him great kudos of what the Ukrainians can do even now.

Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Your member name is most apt.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: spacedoubt

The same contrarians who a while back were screaming at the thought that Russia blew its own gas pipelines are now popping up and claiming that Ukraine blew it's own dam.

It's beyond ridicule.

Or irony.

Here's another aspect Ive seen mentioned and just bring it up for the sake of discussion. Is it possible that whoever is leading the 5th Army decided independent of the Kremlin to neglect the dam, and ultimately blow it up cause at the end of the day it's the 5th Army that likely benefitted the most, and they had access and it definitely keeps the Ukrainian offensive from starting in their sector? Hell, the demolitions team in the 5th Army could have decided on thier own to blow it.

Generally in Russia all decisions are from the top down. Taking the initiative to blow up the dam against Kremlin wishes means either a firing squad or a one-night stay in the top floor of a hotel with open windows.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
You guys might want to read this. Zero Hedge found out that last year, Ukrainian officials studied the possibility of blowing up this dam.

Kiev's Long-Term "Last Resort" Plan To Blow-Up The Kakhova Dam Exposed

Titled “Inside the Ukrainian counteroffensive that shocked Putin and reshaped the war”, its journalists quoted former commander of November’s Kherson Counteroffensive Major General Andrey Kovalchuk who shockingly admitted to planning this war crime:

“Kovalchuk considered flooding the river. The Ukrainians, he said, even conducted a test strike with a HIMARS launcher on one of the floodgates at the Nova Kakhovka dam, making three holes in the metal to see if the Dnieper’s water could be raised enough to stymie Russian crossings but not flood nearby villages. The test was a success, Kovalchuk said, but the step remained a last resort. He held off.”

Nice far right-wing, pro-Russia/pro-China site as your source. I took a look at the list of recent articles and they all have an extreme right-wing bent to them. The article in question makes it seem like Ukraine had everything to gain by blasting the dam, but doesn't mention how it favored the Russians. Also claims the bridge was "bombed" without any evidence, making it sound like it was an external attack on the bridge, which would be difficult, and result in a lot of tell-tale near hits as well

originally posted by: mr-lizard
a reply to: Salamandy

Playground attitude? What does that even mean? Are you saying the people defending their land are children? Are you suggesting it's child-like to react to a violent, rapist, invader?

Victim blaming by a Kremlin sycophant. Surprise, surprise.

a reply to: MrInquisitive

Your excuses are as weak as your insults.

Ukraine blew up the dam out of frustration. Maybe not ordered by Zelenskyy, could have been rogue actors but they did it to justify getting more money from the USA (among others)

Our president needs to stop enabling this toxic behavior before more shady terroristic attacks happen, and yes that could include one from Russian bad actors just as well

How about the news gives us a year or two off from this and let Russia / Ukraine sort it out

originally posted by: Salamandy
Ukraine blew up the dam out of frustration.

Yes, those pesky Ukrainians are just frustrated that there is not enough destruction of Ukraine going on, so want more.

Was your comment satirical?

The dam represented a crossing point for Ukraine, so the Russian's gained more by its destruction than they lost. The immense damage (environmental, ecological, economic, and to people's livelihoods and property) is just irrelevant as far as Russia is concerned. Russian doctrine does not care for destruction, as we can see by the levelling of towns, cities and villages.