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Big Brother has been in your Car for years...and you didn't even know

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posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by apc
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Every major vehicle today has an ECm (electronic Control Module). This records engine serial number, maximum speed limit, idle, trans ratios, etc. It also records at what speed you were driving, and for how long, with the time of day.


Erm think you could provide some sort of reference to this? Last I checked, and Ive worked on cars for years, the ECM did nothing of the sort. If there was a problem, say the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor went berzerk, the ECM would store the appropriate code in memory, to be returned via an OBDI/II scanner. It does not record any serial numbers, speeds, ratios, times, nada. The primary purpose of the ECM/U is to control the fuel mixture in fuel injected vehicles.



Ok, here we go!




DDEC Data

DDEC Data is dedicated memory in the DDEC IV ECM that records operating information about the engine and the vehicle. It is a standard feature in DDEC IV ECM's and is extremely beneficial for diagnostics and reporting.
DDEC Data stores three monthly records and a trip file that can be reset after it is extracted from the ECM. There is an internal clock/calendar, with an internal battery, which is used to track time and stamps event-based occurrences, such as fault codes, hard braking incidents and last stop records. Extremely beneficial information is also stored. Certain reports summarize the data, so there is no practical limit to the length of time data for these particular reports to be stored.

DDEC Reports software produces a wide variety of diagnostic and management reports useful for analyzing driver performance. These reports offer the opportunity for maintenance and a fleet managers to review driving habits an assess how those habits impact driving performance and wear on the engine and vehicle.

Some of the types of reports accessible in DDEC Reports include: Trip Activity, Speed vs. RPM, Engine Load vs. RPM, Periodic Maintenance, Daily Engine Usage, Life-to-Date Summary, Hard Brake, Last Stop Record. All the reports are displayed in and easy to read format, several which have dual display capabilities: graphical and tabular. The graphical representation offers the opportunity to easily view information at a quick glance for diagnosis, while the tabular format displays more detail for a comprehensive analysis.

Extractions can be made by direct connection to the vehicle or wireless. Direct extractions are accomplished by utilizing he approtpriate software, connecting a laptop computer or PC to a compatible translator box and the vehicles 6 or 9 pin diagnostic deutsch connector. Wireless extractions are accomplished through Detroit Diesels InfraRed Information System (IRIS).

DDEC Reports offers reporting capabilities for DDEC and Mercedes (VCU version 12.09 or later) on-highway vehicles, DDEC off-highway and marine applications.

DDEC Reports software is available in the Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link (DDDL) software package through your local Detroit Diesel Distributor. Reference the part numbers listed below for your complete package. If Mercedes diagnostic coverage is needed please order DDDL 5.0



Datalinks
Cummins Engine Company produces many engines today that are electronically controlled. These engines have special diagnostic requirements because of the electronic control module (ECM) in the system. To interface with these ECMs, electronic service tools have been developed, such as INSITE™.




posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 01:33 PM
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So what does that have to do with passenger cars. What you posted is for Semi trucks etc and is an optional feature as best I can tell.

[edit on 8/4/05 by Skibum]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
Big Brother has been in your Car for years...and you didn't even know...


Good thing I left the window cracked, it gets really hot here in the summer...

Unless... I mean... I know I'm not very observant, but... if he's been in the trunk...ew... that would explain the smell...


[edit on 4/8/2005 by thelibra]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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Do you know what I find funny? The fact that we are all scared (for some i'd say obssesed) of Big Brother and yet we all want to beneffit of modern technology.

Well, that's it. If you want a computer in your car that can guide you in your journey, you'll have to accept that sooner or later, someone could make a gizmo wich will record your coordinates given by the GPS (or perhaps europe's Gallileo system).

Are all these necesserary? Well some of the features, in my oppinion, are good. But as soon as you begin recording my behaviour it's bad.

I mean, it's fine if the computer controls the air-gas mixture, or the brakes, tells me if the airbag is working, and so on, but what gain will I have if it will tell me that i've been speeding (come on, I drove the car - I know I've been speeding!!) between point A and B, that I've put my seatbelt only when I saw the police officer...
I will have nothing to gain, only the insurance company will!



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Skibum
So what does that have to do with passenger cars. What you posted is for Semi trucks etc and is an optional feature as best I can tell.

[edit on 8/4/05 by Skibum]


Having an ECM on a truck is not an option, it is a requirement. I stated in my original post that I worked in the trucking business.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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OK, nathraq. In Romania they aren't. Yet!

But like I said, if you want a better car, you'll have to accept them.

If you don't, than like apc said :


don't buy new cars


I repeat. It's OK to have an ECM that controls the air-gas mixture. It's bad to have an ECM that records your speed, acceleration, fuell consumption...

It's a big difference between "control" and "record", but the insurance companies and the car manufacturers seem to ignore it.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Ok my friend, no problem


We get guys in every day, who want us to change their road speed limits, horsepower, optimized idle, etc. We do it, for a charge of course.

Sometimes when their computers go bad, they need to get them replaced. To do so, we need the engine serial number. The computer is then programmed to the factory defaults within the parameters set by the engine manufacturer (Detroit Diesel, Cummins Caterpillar, Volvo, etc.)

That is what I meant by, the computer has this information(per serial number of engine) programmed into it. As the computer is programmed to serial number, that specific serial number tells the injectors when to fire, how much fuel to shoot into the cylinder, how much horsepower and rpms's, when to shut down the engine after idleing for too long, when the fan clutch should engage, etc.

I have seen some 'alley' mechanics try to interchange computers between two different engine serial numbers )although the engine models are the same), and they had nothing but problems. Quick $1700.00 profit for us



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Well, I have to work for 3 months for the same amount of money...and I'm earning above averege!
I guess that's why here in Romania an ECM is still an option...



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by apc


Every major vehicle today has an ECm (electronic Control Module). This records engine serial number, maximum speed limit, idle, trans ratios, etc. It also records at what speed you were driving, and for how long, with the time of day.


Erm think you could provide some sort of reference to this? Last I checked, and Ive worked on cars for years, the ECM did nothing of the sort. If there was a problem, say the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor went berzerk, the ECM would store the appropriate code in memory, to be returned via an OBDI/II scanner. It does not record any serial numbers, speeds, ratios, times, nada. The primary purpose of the ECM/U is to control the fuel mixture in fuel injected vehicles.



Im curious as to what kind of work you do on cars considering that what nathraq said is true and is very basic common knowledge in the automotive industry.

The computer(s) in your car do all sorts of things and as time goes on they are getting incredibly complex. They DO store and process speeds, ratios, etc etc etc which is all gathered by sensors. The information is used to basically help perfect the operation of your vehicle and to notify you and/or a technician of problems. Guess what an ABS computer does, it monitors tire speeds! Recording time of day, serial number is a different issue though unless of course you work in the trucking industry as I believe nathraq does, but even so, normal ECUs for our everyday vehicles can store/monitor your driving habits (speeds, how long you usually drive for, how many miles) and adjust accordingly. My '95 Nissan's ECU does this so it is obviously not new technology.

To me this sounds like a bunch of people are just being paranoid as usual and making an issue out of nothing. An actual black box whos sole purpose was to record information like that of an airplane's is a different story. The computers on your car are there for the reasons stated above. I just hope people dont start ripping out all the little "black boxes" from their car, as I dont think your warranty will cover acts of stupidity and paranoia.


apc

posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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What kind of logic is this ?? You don't buy the subway car and park it in your garage at night do you? Its your car and you have bought it so nobody else needs to know where it is except you and maybe the police. What concern is it to the manufacturer where my car is?


The car is not the concern by my previous logic. The road is. The governing traffic authority for an area has every right to know the location of every single vehicle present on ITS roads. They belong to that authority, not the people on them (the fact that the people pay the taxes means nothing). This is the sense, if you had understood my statements, that I am talking about.



And here is more misinformation by the ignorant! Care to read the link in my post! You should have

Yes, I did go over the linked page. Did you read what I said? I don't believe I said that picture was of an ABS unit. What I do believe I said, again if you only had understood, was now thanks to these shiney metal boxes with white and yellow stickers being labelled "black boxes", every little twerp who thinks he knows what the NWO is doing is going to tear his/her car apart looking for one of these things, stumble apon something such as their stereo amp, and scream conspiracy.


Nathraq: thankyou. The next time I need to get some work done on my 18wheeler (which apparently translates to "Every major vehicle today"), I know where to go.


My '95 Nissan's ECU does this so it is obviously not new technology.

My '97 and '94 Nissan's ECU do not. Check your diagnostics manual again.

You're right about a few things tho, modern day ECU's are getting rediculously complex, storing info and computing all sorts of crap down to how much air is flowing around the power antenna. It's f'in insane. You can trip a code for having a tire pressure imbalance! ACK!
And yup, most of this is pure paranoia.

As I stated already, the following applies to the majority of consumers: THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT.

You want a car that can drive itself? Well this technology is the foundation. You want a car that can intelligently avoid traffic jams and accidents? This technology is the foundation. Do you want to be able to rise up above the southbound parking lot and zip into a sky way... you get the point.

If, like me, you dont want these things... don't use the technology. Don't buy new cars.

> btw, I said Ive worked on cars, not I am employed working on cars. I actually design and build electronics, so naturally I am not on the 2005 chapter of automotive technology... and Im definitely glad I dont have a dead rat on my roof.

[edit on 8-4-2005 by apc]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 11:40 PM
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Could possibly be useful technology.

I hope the black box doesn't replace human observation. I just don't want a ticket from speeding trying to get away from a speeding truck on the interstate. Sometimes you cann't help it, when a big truck is right on top of you, you speed or get run over. Hopefully you could argue that in court. A back box isn't human, so we need to keep that in mind as well.

Troy



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 12:05 AM
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i dont want a care that will drive itself, and stop itself. i dont want a care that will send out information, even if it records it within the car until its physically removed. I dont want to overspecialize the transportation industry so that only manufacturers can repair their own veichles. And I dont think that electronic functioning the car radio cant be done without recording what station i was listening to for the past month (or brake/wheel/airbag equivalent).

and the government DOES NOT have the right to know whats on its roads, if the people democratically decide that it Doesnt. Manufacturers already test their cars before release, lets not make our public roads a R&D lab. We dont have problems with viechles on roads that dont meet requirements, so obviously the procedures we have in place are sufficent and do not warrant a privacy invasion.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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I am against this and also against OnStar. I watch the commercials and the voice says "Sir your airbag deployed, can you hear me"? Now before anyone gets in an uproar, I realize they can be good things, but depending on how they are used I see the potential for misuse. I personally will not activate my OnStar system. I don't care what I am told about it, I feel there is the ability to listen in on my conservations etc. Not to mention that if for some reason I can not forsee at this moment I feel I have to get away from someone or something I don't want my movements tracked. As far as I am concerned it is just like a lot of other things, it starts out as something that seems beneficial and ends up biting John Q. Citizen in the butt. Thanks but no thanks.


apc

posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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janesquest you are a prime example of precisely what people should do if they don't like the technology... don't use it. *applaud*


and the government DOES NOT have the right to know whats on its roads, if the people democratically decide that it Doesnt


Wrong. Yes, the governing authority of a traffic district has every right to know what is going on on ITS roads. For example, many cities including my own now use a camera system to monitor traffic on the city highways and on/offramps. One use, of many, for the information gathered is to be compiled into an interactive web page to allow people to see what the traffic situations are like before they hit the street. They can tell that the avg speed on, for example, I-35 is 15mph. Do the people have any say on the presence of these cameras? No. No vote, No polls, nothing. Why? Because they shouldnt have such a say. If youre obeying the laws of the road, you have nothing to be concerned about. If you're not obeying the laws of the road, you have no right to be on them. Don't think Im bhudda or some crap when it comes to driving... in my younger days I would routinely make very high speed runs around town in the range of 120mph usually, but not once did I ever get a ticket. Had I gotten one however, I would have accepted it with the full knowledge that I deserved it.. I broke the street law of the specific city, and got caught.. I therefore deserved punishment. Simple. If I felt punishment was not warranted for such an act, I would not have used their roads.

Again, if you dont want to cooperate with the regulations placed on the public use roadways, build your own damn roads.

Do I like the fact that there are cameras watching me as I cruise down the highway? Of course not!! But do I like the fact that I can look at a website to see what the traffic conditions are like (when you work 200ft below ground you cant exactly look out a window) around the city. So it is a minor sacrifice of privacy to gain a nice convenience.

These "black boxes" are the exact same thing. Everybody rants and whines about things they want their vehicles to do... and often it is apparent that they really need these things (like cars driving themselves) because they are outright too stupid to do it themselves. "Oh, Ill just cut across 4 lanes and stop halfway inside one blocking traffic for 3 miles because I missed my turn because I was too distracted jabbering away on my cellphone."

You want nice conveniences? A consequence of the necessary infrastructure is the ability for the administration to know the precise location, speed, and altitude (yes, altitude) of every vehicle traversing the roadways.

Either get over and get used to it, or dont use it.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 10:25 PM
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I don't mind so much being monitored to a degree. As long as it's understood that stuff happens and sometimes you have to speed, and sometimes you have to break the law. Sometimes your survival depends on it. I just don't want a machine to indiscriminately label me as a wreckless driver because I had to speed, because there is this nut case pursuing me on a nightly basis.

Having a camera, for example, in a car could be a bit much for some people to handle. That might be too far, as far as what big brother sees. If you wanted to make love to your wife in the car, you've just made a nice little porn video. That could embarass some people.

Now, if I am a criminal, then more observation might be warranted.

Troy




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