christians and catholics please read...your God has killed millions...

Is it evil for God to kill something he created? Does he not kill us all at some point in time? Your point is moot, death is natural, he decides when someone dies. He gave it, he has the right to take it away. It's not our time we are wasting it is his.

Let me say only one thing, "God" doesn't kill people, it never has and never will.

Humans kill humans.

Now I agree that the first testament portray God as a God of war and conquer but later on when Christianity was born and separated from the Judeo believes, the God became softer and more benevolent in the name of Christ.

More to the fact that the bible is and will ever be a book of contradictions and given to different interpretations.


[edit on 27-3-2005 by marg6043]

If it weren't a Christian god than it'd be an Islamic god and if it weren't an Islamic god than it'd be a Wiccan god and if it weren't a Wiccan god than it'd be a Aryan god and if it weren't an Aryan god than it'd be a Judaic god and if it weren't a Judaic god than it'd be a Roman god and if it weren't a Roman god than it'd be a Egyptian god and if it weren't an Egyptian god than it'd be a Sumerian god and if it weren't a Sumerian god it'd be a Cro-Magnum god and if it weren't a Cro-Magnum god it'd be a Neadenerthal god and if it'd weren't a Neanderthal god than it'd be a ______ god.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
Is it evil for God to kill something he created? Does he not kill us all at some point in time? Your point is moot, death is natural, he decides when someone dies. He gave it, he has the right to take it away. It's not our time we are wasting it is his.

Ummm...sorry, but I am not a waste of Gods time. I seriously doubt time has any meaning where God is concerned.

Life isn't even about God, It's about you. What kind of person are YOU going to be? Will you help the poor, will you reach out to those in pain? will you touch the divine nature that is yourself? Have you the ability to heal your own world in whatever way that you can, and therefore find the true nature of the loving God that granted us all Life?

God did not create you to be a victim, though every religion on earth teaches otherwise. You have power beyond your wildest dreams and each of those powers are about how YOU can become like unto the one that created us all.

The path one walks does not make them holy, they must make the path holy. It's not about God, It's about you.

Love and light,

Wupy

Originally posted by National Security Agency
If it weren't a Christian god than it'd be an Islamic god and if it weren't an Islamic god than it'd be a Wiccan god and if it weren't a Wiccan god than it'd be a Aryan god and if it weren't an Aryan god than it'd be a Judaic god and if it weren't a Judaic god than it'd be a Roman god and if it weren't a Roman god than it'd be a Egyptian god and if it weren't an Egyptian god than it'd be a Sumerian god and if it weren't a Sumerian god it'd be a Cro-Magnum god and if it weren't a Cro-Magnum god it'd be a Neadenerthal god and if it'd weren't a Neanderthal god than it'd be a ______ god.

Who else, besides me, understood the point that I am making by stating that? Okay............If you don't know, guess.

Originally posted by National Security Agency
If it weren't a Christian god than it'd be an Islamic god and if it weren't an Islamic god than it'd be a Wiccan god and if it weren't a Wiccan god than it'd be a Aryan god and if it weren't an Aryan god than it'd be a Judaic god and if it weren't a Judaic god than it'd be a Roman god and if it weren't a Roman god than it'd be a Egyptian god and if it weren't an Egyptian god than it'd be a Sumerian god and if it weren't a Sumerian god it'd be a Cro-Magnum god and if it weren't a Cro-Magnum god it'd be a Neadenerthal god and if it'd weren't a Neanderthal god than it'd be a ______ god.

NUH-UH!

The Bible and Jesus is actually a story of the internal struggle of mankind, inside the mind. The battle between good and evil within yourself is the main purpose of the stories in the Bible. Christianity/Catholisism is just an organized attempt to have power and money to extort policies in goverments in favor of priests and clergy and to stir propaganda in favor of government policies. It's a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch your back" type of relationship.

Jesus was just a revolutionary figure which led to the empowerment of peoples in the ancient land. Without Jesus we'd still be living under the dictators and would not have very much advanced technology. Jesus revolutionized the people of his time and showed them that one man can make a difference in the world. Ofcourse he healed people but actually those people healed themselves because they believed in him. He gave them an alternative reality.

I am a christian and I do have problems with the catholic religion, to put it bluntly it does not tell of salvation correctly and it will not let you get as close to God as He desires.


I have more bluntness to mention. God does decide when a person is born and when a person dies. It's that simple. He is in charge of that. That's a sobering thought. It can also be a comforting, knowing that no one or nothing can take your life from you and end your physical life on this planet without going through Him first.

More bluntness. God hates sin and God judges sin. That's sobering knowing we as people sin. But He has taken care of that problem through Christ if one will believe this. But it also is sobering to some and comforting to others to know that all will be held accountable. The saved and unsaved.

Mention that God is love and everyone is ready to jump on the bandwagon, but there is the God of justice also.

If someone committed a murder and even admitted this to the judge, then the judge pronounced the person guilty and let them go free, we wouldn't view the judge very favorably and we would be angry because justice wasn't served. God extends mercy for everyone, but eventually justice must be served also. You can't have the love without the justice, sorry.

Originally posted by dbrandt
I am a christian and I do have problems with the catholic religion, to put it bluntly it does not tell of salvation correctly and it will not let you get as close to God as He desires.

And who decides what God desires? Your preacher, perhaps? It is these type of statements that contribute to my belief in Athiesism. Enjoy your bliss because I enjoy reading it.

You are all lucky God allows you to get up in the morning.

Originally posted by dbrandt
If someone committed a murder and even admitted this to the judge, then the judge pronounced the person guilty and let them go free, we wouldn't view the judge very favorably and we would be angry because justice wasn't served.

Than what is the point of forgiveness and redemption? Aren't they the values which Christianity holds dear. Do you forgive and punish at the same time, or forgive and assume the person will redeem themselves through good?

Also, a better question, if a person killed one person knowing that it would save a hundred more than has that person sinned?

[edit on 27-3-2005 by National Security Agency]

Its unconditional forgiveness. Thats what Jesus is about boah.

Originally posted by National Security Agency
And who decides what God desires?

God has let us know about Himself through the Bible. I'm not going to debate the whole the Bible isn't real thing, there are other threads to do that. You either believe it or you don't, your choice , my choice, everybodies choice.

Let's say someone gets married. 2 people meet on a certain night and that night decide to get married in 16 months. They never see each other again until the wedding day. They would know nothing about each other because they haven't spent time together to get to know each other. You have to spend time with people to get to know them.

The same is true for God. You read the Bible daily(1 verse ,20 verses ,2 chapters) pick a reasonable pace and a time that is consistent. That's what God gave us the Bible for, so we would get to know Him and we even get to know us.

You mentioned a preacher. You certainly can listen to a preacher/s. Just make sure they know what they are talking about. How would you know if it's right. You have to read the Bible for yourself so that when someone makes a statement that "God says in the Bible" you will know if it's truth or a lie because you already have read it.

Talk to God yourself, pray and listen.

This all takes patience, if you sincerely want to know God, He will not turn you away. It will be a lifelong commitment that you are embarking on just like a marriage or parenthood. If someone can have patience for that then they can have patience for God.

First off, the Bible is the true word of God. Some things may confuse, such as "Fire from the sky"= meteor storms and such.

And, the translations in anyting other than the original Greek and Hebrew don't give the complete, or accurate meaning (especially in King James).

God is the same in both New and Old. He does have a name. It's Yahweh. No, God is not hateful. How would you feel if you created a bunch of little creatures that you loved dearly, but they turned their dedication from you to somthing evil. There are only a few left. The heathens are out of control and cannot be stopped. The bad seeds must be destroyed.

Now, that Jesus (Yeshwah) came and was born by a virgin, died on the Cross, and rose again, man's debt for sin is paid. You must only believe what the statement above says, and ask the Savior into your heart. No ifs, ands or buts.


And, no Cathlolocism is not the same as Protestant Christianity. Cathloics worship false idols and have dumb doctrines set down by Popes who , if they didn't like somthing personally, outlawed it. Most Catholics only believe that Jesus was just a good prophet or saint, rather than the truth, he is the Son of God.

I don't care what other books you have read that say otherwise. My faith is strong, and cannot be swayed.

It gets worse. According to christian belief he will be slaughtering billions, within a few years. All this because after he created mankind and declared him 'good" he realized he erred and mankind was not good at all and needed to die in the most heinous of ways. Plus he is taking a count you know, for obviously when he has met his planned X number ready to worship at his throne and wash his feet, he can just kill off the rest.

Truth is, the Biblical stories are nothing but myth and superstition told by a group of people who beat the likes of Dumas, Shakespeare and Welles to a best selling idea. Of course we do not expect them since they are the heroes in their tales, to cast themselves as anything but the righteous party so when their fabled history went well they claimed god blessed them, when it went against them they claimed they were punished. This obviously mean the other guy's god was showing his might.

Then we come to the NT, a nice little tale of war and insurrection, during a war intense time, wrapped in platitude and parable, while set amid a land of donkeys, simpletons and simple folk just plodding along as though life is a bowl of cherries and all is just hunkey dorey in their banal lives.

Is it not about time that we, considering we think of ourselves as an advanced and intelligent society stop hanging on to beliefs such as god having to use mere mortals to do his slaughtering?

What exactly does it take for a god to show and prove his might? How is it that he was quite willing to open a sea and drown Egyptians in same without shedding a drop of Israelite blood, yet he needs to send Israelite men into countless battles, and kill hundreds or thousands of same in order to vanquish the enemy.

I guarantee, a few more miracles like the Red sea and he would not have to be killing billions in the near future. Such is the farce between the covers of that book. Obviously we are just his puppets and toy soldiers.

You obviously don't have a good grasp of what Christianity is, or who God is, for that matter. The only reason people are going to die is because they are all to selfish and humanistic to believe the truth, and accept Christ.

And, in all actuality, no one ever dies. They just end up in Heaven, or Hell.

Originally posted by National Security Agency

Than what is the point of forgiveness and redemption? Aren't they the values which Christianity holds dear. Do you forgive and punish at the same time, or forgive and assume the person will redeem themselves through good?

Also, a better question, if a person killed one person knowing that it would save a hundred more than has that person sinned?

[edit on 27-3-2005 by National Security Agency]

Let's say I was 32 when I accepted Christ. I've had 32 years to sin, just 1 sin puts eternal seperation between me and God. So let's guess and say I've done 12,657 sins among them are sleeping around. But at 32 I truly and for real accepted what Christ has done for me on the cross and want to be clean and made new. I believe that Christ took my sins upon Himself and satisfied God's justice upon my sin. Those 12,657 sins are gone from me, God even tells me that He will not remember them any more. The only basis for my salvation is trusting what Christ has done. I don't have to perform 28,321 good deeds to enter heaven and eternity, and what if that wasn't enough what if it was 3,543,566. God knows we couldn't earn our salvation so that's why it's a free gift we simply need to accept.

Now from this moment forward(certainly helps to read the Bible and be with others likeminded and study and grow) I can still sin, but it should be less in frequency and intensity. My eternal salvation has not been lost because I have sinned but the sin I do after salvation can have consequences. God could choose to not let those consequences happen and as a matter of fact He could keep me from even knowing about them, but He doesn't have too. He could let the consequences come to discipline me like earthly parents would. If we missed all the consequences from sin we wouldn't learn much.

Now let's say the night before I was saved I sleep with someone I met at a party. That might even be what triggered me to ask Him to forgive me and live in my heart and life. Now 13 months down the road I'm at the Dr. and I see this girl and we remember each other. She also tells me she has AIDS and I should get checked out. Does God have to keep me from getting the AIDS virus, He could but He doesn't have too. I get checked and find out I have it, do I stop following Him. I suppose you could but once saved always saved. There is a verse in the Bible that says some people that believe in Christ, God has taken early to prevent them from sinning more. I decide not to stop believeing and as a matter of fact realize that I have AIDS and I MADE the choice to sleep with that girl. I decide to continue on with God and who knows what will happen, I may find someone who I honestly love and vice versa or maybe I become a counsellor to others and try to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Once a true acceptance of Christ has come to a person there is no one stronger than God, you cannot be snatched out of His hand.

If someone sins which we all did and do and rejects Christ the wrath of God is upon that person. He/She will be judged and found guilty. Earhtly consequences come to those people too.

If someone shoots 1 person saving a hundred others? Death and warfare are part of the sin of this earth that we cross paths with. Motives play a big part in our actions. God knows our motives, you can't lie to Him, He knows our thoughts. I would have to study up on that one before I could give a definite answer. The thing is God wouldn't have to think for a second about, He is a righteousness and can deliver justice appropriately.

If this person was not saved before killiing the 1, then god will forgive sin when salvation comes through Christ. If they are already saved and circumstances brought this about this sin if it is is also forgiven through Christ

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by National Security Agency

Than what is the point of forgiveness and redemption? Aren't they the values which Christianity holds dear. Do you forgive and punish at the same time, or forgive and assume the person will redeem themselves through good?

Also, a better question, if a person killed one person knowing that it would save a hundred more than has that person sinned?

[edit on 27-3-2005 by National Security Agency]

Let's say I was 32 when I accepted Christ. I've had 32 years to sin, just 1 sin puts eternal seperation between me and God. So let's guess and say I've done 12,657 sins among them are sleeping around. But at 32 I truly and for real accepted what Christ has done for me on the cross and want to be clean and made new. I believe that Christ took my sins upon Himself and satisfied God's justice upon my sin. Those 12,657 sins are gone from me, God even tells me that He will not remember them any more. The only basis for my salvation is trusting what Christ has done. I don't have to perform 28,321 good deeds to enter heaven and eternity, and what if that wasn't enough what if it was 3,543,566. God knows we couldn't earn our salvation so that's why it's a free gift we simply need to accept.

Now from this moment forward(certainly helps to read the Bible and be with others likeminded and study and grow) I can still sin, but it should be less in frequency and intensity. My eternal salvation has not been lost because I have sinned but the sin I do after salvation can have consequences. God could choose to not let those consequences happen and as a matter of fact He could keep me from even knowing about them, but He doesn't have too. He could let the consequences come to discipline me like earthly parents would. If we missed all the consequences from sin we wouldn't learn much.

Now let's say the night before I was saved I sleep with someone I met at a party. That might even be what triggered me to ask Him to forgive me and live in my heart and life. Now 13 months down the road I'm at the Dr. and I see this girl and we remember each other. She also tells me she has AIDS and I should get checked out. Does God have to keep me from getting the AIDS virus, He could but He doesn't have too. I get checked and find out I have it, do I stop following Him. I suppose you could but once saved always saved. There is a verse in the Bible that says some people that believe in Christ, God has taken early to prevent them from sinning more. I decide not to stop believeing and as a matter of fact realize that I have AIDS and I MADE the choice to sleep with that girl. I decide to continue on with God and who knows what will happen, I may find someone who I honestly love and vice versa or maybe I become a counsellor to others and try to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Once a true acceptance of Christ has come to a person there is no one stronger than God, you cannot be snatched out of His hand.

If someone sins which we all did and do and rejects Christ the wrath of God is upon that person. He/She will be judged and found guilty. Earhtly consequences come to those people too.

If someone shoots 1 person saving a hundred others? Death and warfare are part of the sin of this earth that we cross paths with. Motives play a big part in our actions. God knows our motives, you can't lie to Him, He knows our thoughts. I would have to study up on that one before I could give a definite answer. The thing is God wouldn't have to think for a second about, He is a righteousness and can deliver justice appropriately.

If this person was not saved before killiing the 1, then god will forgive sin when salvation comes through Christ. If they are already saved and circumstances brought this about this sin if it is is also forgiven through Christ

I agree. That is an excellent observation.

Also, I think the problem he and others are having is that they have trouble grasping the fact that God loves everyone, no matter how sinful. He doesn't desire them to die an awful earthly death, and burn forever in Hell, a place intended only for Satan and his demons. He loved Hitler, Stalin...the list goes on and on. The problem was, they didn't believe for one reason or another, and continued following the ways of humanity, the flesh, and sinning.

He loves us so much that He sent his ONLY SON to die a most horrific and painful death, in order to wipe away our sins, past present and future. All each person in the world has to do is believe.

Acknowledge-that you are a sinner and that Jesus is God's Son

Believe-that Jesus is the Savior and that he died to cover the penalty of your sins, and accept Him into your life

Commit-your life to the Lord, and watch as the blessings are bestowed on you.

Originally posted by mrwupy
Please keep in mind that anything you hear or read about God is just an opinion. Nothing more.

Love and light,

Wupy

this is more...

this is PROOF that God killed MILLIONS...

now, we must find out WHY...

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
It gets worse. According to christian belief he will be slaughtering billions, within a few years.

Do you realize what the tribulation period is? Man has been trying to build a world without God since the Tower of Babel. God confused the languages dispersed the people and divided the continents. Now here we are again and we can be anywhere in the world in a few hours and actually with the internet we can be anywhere in a few seconds. Man has not forgotten the goal of building a world without God.

So even right now but mainly during the tribulation period God says, "OK you want a world without me , go for it". Mankind will have the most freedom God has ever given man to build a world under man's leadership. That's when the billions of deaths occur when MAN IS IN CHARGE. God does reenter the picture and puts a stop to it.