christians and catholics please read...your God has killed millions...

when i went to the easter vigil mass yestersay i noticed something...

i noticed that the God of christians and catholics has killed millions of people...

one of the gospel readings was the story of noah and the great flood...

you all know this story...

the world was "evil" so God made a huge flood and killed everyone except noah and some animals...

did God have to kill EVERYONE in the world (except for noah and some others)???

another example of God killing many is the story of sodom and gomorrah...

the people living in these cities were "evil" so God killed EVERYONE in them and destroyed the cities...

then we heard the reading of abraham and his son...

God told abraham to kill his son as a holacaust to God...

even though it was only a test, it was still pretty harsh that God told abraham to kill his son...

then, in the reading of moses and the israelites, God killed Pharaoh's army in the red sea...

He could have sent an angel down to the army and the angel could have told the army that these people were the "choosen ones" and this would have stopped the chase...

but God decided to kill them...

so, God has killed MILLIONS of people...

and we call Him a "good" God???

so God kills MILLIONS and Jesus preaches about loving your neighbor???

what do YOU think about all of this???

please note that for this thread we are ASSUMING that the stories in the bible are 100 percent true...

If you knew the whole story not the bible version you would understand a bit better... I've posted it plenty of times..

Concerning the comment that the God of the New Testament isn't the same as the Old is because who the people believe was God back then was actually Satan... The Apocrypha of John has the TRUE account of "the Beginning... it's a bit hard to understand at the beginning but it's very interesting... all of it is a whole lot more plausable then the version in the bible...
SYMBOLICALLY it's sort of like this...

"REAL GOD" is "NAMELESS" because none of us have known him yet (until Jesus)... that's because...

NAMELESS (also seen here as CONSORT) created his wife out of his mind, in his image

"And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind"

She asked for all sorts of powers... she is known as Sophia of the Epinoia...
But one day she decided that she wanted to bring a likeness of herself (an image of herself) into existence without the consent of the Mother-Father (NAMELESS)

"And the Sophia of the Epinoia, being an aeon, conceived a thought from herself and the conception of the invisible Spirit and foreknowledge. She wanted to bring forth a likeness out of herself without the consent of the Spirit, - he had not approved - and without her consort, and without his consideration."

And that BEING was Satan... also known as... Yaltabaoth

She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the Holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth

He is the FIRST Archon to steal a great power from his mother.

"And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born"

He left their area... assumed power for himself and created the Authorities... (12 of them)
"But he did not send forth from the power of the light which he had taken from his mother, for he is ignorant darkness"

"He became strong and created for himself other aeons with a flame of luminous fire which (still) exists now"(The sun)
"And he joined with his arrogance which is in him and begot authorities for himself"

He created 12 of them according to text. and each of them created 7 Powers for themselves..

"And the powers created for themselves six angels for each one until they became 365 angels"

""And having created [...] everything, he (Yaltabaoth) organized according to the model of the first aeons which had come into being, so that he might create them like the indestructible ones."

"Not because he had seen the indestructible ones, but the power in him, which he had taken from his mother, produced in him the likeness of the cosmos. And when he saw the creation which surrounds him, and the multitude of the angels around him which had come forth from him, he said to them, 'I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside me.' But by announcing this he indicated to the angels who attended him that there exists another God. For if there were no other one, of whom would he be jealous? "

"Then the mother began to move to and fro. She became aware of the deficiency when the brightness of her light diminished. And she became dark because her consort had not agreed with her."

Now Yaltabaoths' mother became aware that he stole her power and she was angry with herself and repented and became shameful

"And she was overcome by forgetfulness in the darkness of ignorance and she began to be ashamed. And she did not dare to return,"(to The Nameless)

"And the arrogant one (YaltaBaoth) took a power from his mother. For he was ignorant, thinking that there existed no other except his mother alone. And when he saw the multitude of the angels which he had created, then he exalted himself above them"

(That’s when the God in Regular Genesis say I am the Only God, and I am a Jealous God)

"And when the mother recognized that the garment of darkness was imperfect, and then she knew that her consort (The NAMELESS) had not agreed with her. She repented with much weeping. And the whole pleroma heard the prayer of her repentance, and they praised on her behalf the invisible, virginal Spirit. And he consented; and when the invisible Spirit had consented, the Holy Spirit poured over her from their whole pleroma. For it was not her consort who came to her, but he came to her through the pleroma in order that he might correct her deficiency. And she was taken up not to her own aeon but above her son that she might be in the ninth until she has corrected her deficiency.

"And a voice came forth from the exalted aeon-heaven: 'The Man exists and the son of Man.' and the chief archon, Yaltabaoth, heard (it) and thought that the voice had come from his mother. And he did not know from where it came. And he taught them, the holy and perfect Mother-Father, the complete foreknowledge, the image of the invisible one who is the Father of the all (and) through whom everything came into being, the first Man. For he revealed his likeness in a human form.

What happened there is, The Nameless heard her prayers and had pity on her and appeared to her in a human form, and spoke to her and her creations and explained "REALITY" and Yaltabaoth heard it thought it was his mom...
So then Yaltabaoth said to his authorities...

‘Come; let us create a man according to the image of God and according to our likeness that his image may become a light for us.' And they created by means of their respective powers in correspondence with the characteristics which were given. And each authority supplied a characteristic in the form of the image which he had seen in its natural (form). He created a being according to the likeness of the first, perfect Man. And they said, 'Let us call him Adam that his name may become a power of light for us.'


The Apocryphon of John

[edit on 27/3/05 by dnero6911]

The God you refer to is the Christian God - and yes, if you go by the bible and some of its followers - their God is a hateful God.

The Lord speaks through the Old Testament prophet Jeremiah and says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving kindness" (31:3). The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament. In both testaments, Bible readers will see God reveal himself as a holy and righteous God who demands that sin be punished. Yet, God also reveals himself as a God of mercy and grace, who for the sake of his Son Jesus, offers forgiveness to the penitent sinner. Permit me to elaborate.

The record of the Old Testament begins with a record of divine love. The creation account itself is a marvelous testimony about the love of God who created a world fit for life and full of life, and all for the crown of his creation, humans. They were placed into a perfect paradise and in love God entrusted them with the care of his creation (see Genesis 1 and 2). Yet when our first parents rebelled, how did God react? In love he called them forth and asked them questions. God knew all things, yet in grace he gives them a time to confess and repent. God goes even farther and promises to send someone who would crush the serpent's head (see Gen. 3:15). God intervenes and promises Adam and Eve a way out of the tragedy of sin and death. God, in love, even expels them from the perfect garden. Why is this love? A gracious heavenly Father did not want them to eat from the tree of life in their sinful state and live forever with the horrible consequences of sin and pain. Instead, a Savior is promised who would win a victory to rescue them.

Throughout the Old Testament, we see God revealed as one jealous to fulfill his promise to send a Savior. When the wickedness of mankind grew so violent and prevalent, God, in judgment, sent a flood. Yet even now, God displays patient love in giving mankind 120 years to repent and turn back to him (Gen 6:1-8). God used Noah and his family not only to preserve life for the earth, but to preserve a line through which the promise of a Savior to come could be carried out. Later in history, God in love chose Abraham and promised that through him this precious promise would be carried. Yet, Abraham on numerous occasions displayed weak faith and tragic sins. Yet, God in grace and mercy restored and continued to bless him for the sake of the promise. It is with Abraham that God pledged himself as a covenant God. Through Abraham, God would build up a great nation known as the Israelites.

In reading the history of the Israelite nation, the Bible reader quickly realizes that God does not "whitewash" the sins of his people. Nor does the Bible downplay the holiness of God. Yes, God had specific and demanding laws for his people. They were to learn several basic and elemental truths. God is a righteous and holy God, just in his decrees, demanding of absolute perfection. "Be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy" (Lev 19:2). No human, then or now, could meet such expectations of perfection. The Bible clearly teaches us that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Ro 3). We are under the curse of God's wrath. Each and every transgression deserves death. On numerous occasions in the Old Testament, we see God's justice and judgment carried out immediately upon the hardened transgressor. (By the way, several times in the New Testament such immediate judgment was also carried out. See Acts 5 and the account of Ananias and Sapphira.)

But the Bible also contains Good News. In Jesus God sent one to live a holy and perfect life in our place, and it is credited to us as perfect righteousness. The punishment we deserve, God placed on his Son. In Jesus God has declared all the world justified (see 2 Cor 5:17-21). In Old Testament times, God taught these salvation truths through the ceremonial worship life of the tabernacle and later the temple. No sinful human can approach God. A representative is needed. Blood is needed. Sacrifice is needed. This worship life pointed ahead to Jesus, the one whom God sent as our Substitute, and whose blood covers our sin and allows us to approach God. The animal sacrifices pointed ahead to the one perfect sacrifice for all sin in Jesus (see Hebrews 9:11-28). Jesus is the Substitute who would take our place and carry our sin. The Old Testament prophet Isaiah clearly teaches this same truth of substitution: "The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Is 53:6). In fact, read through the entire chapter 53 for a beautiful Gospel message of how the Servant of the Lord will come to take our place and our punishment that we might have healing and peace.

It is possible eading of the Old Testament singes the sensitivities of 21st century readers. After all, we live in a time when most people deny that there is an absolute standard of right or wrong, so how could there be sin? We live surrounded by the prevalent philosophy that no one is truly accountable for their actions. The Bible stands in vivid contrast and forcefully proclaims that there is a righteous God, of whom the psalm writer says, "you hate all who do wrong" (Ps. 5:5). Only when we understand the dreadful wrath of God and the seriousness of sin, can we truly begin to stand in awe at the cross and be amazed at the love of God to save. The Old Testament believer marveled at this grace of God during every celebration of the Day of Atonement.

There is much more the Bible then just pulling stories out of it. It takes a lot of study and commitment to understand them, and when you do it makes everything connected and stronger

Not to be picky ... but what the heck.

Your title is silly. Catholics ARE christians. There are 1 billion
Catholics and 1 billion other Christians... 2 billion Christians in
all. Why say 'Catholics and Christians'?? Just say Christians.
Catholics ARE Christians.

Originally posted by they see ALL
when i went to the easter vigil mass yestersay i noticed something...

Oh .. and what were you doing at Easter Vigil Mass anyways?
You don't believe in the Catholic faith. I hope you didn't go to
Holy Communion. When you go to Communion you are making
a public statement that you are 'in communion' (agreement)
with the Catholic faith. Why were you there?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Not to be picky ... but what the heck.

Your title is silly. Catholics ARE christians. There are 1 billion
Catholics and 1 billion other Christians... 2 billion Christians in
all. Why say 'Catholics and Christians'?? Just say Christians.
Catholics ARE Christians.

Not to be picky ... but isn't the old Testament also the Torah that the Jews believe in. So in effect its the God of the Jews and the Christians that you are accusing of killing millions? Which will add another few million to your tally, Flyers.

And not wanting to pick any further but to my recollection nobody in the new testament is killed by God, in fact the ones that died, Jesus brought back to life.



[edit on 27-3-2005 by Mynaeris]

Originally posted by Mynaeris
to my recollection nobody in the new testament is killed by God,

Acts 5 - Ananias and his wife ... were they killed by God ...
or by Peter ... or by their own guilt causing stress and they
stroked out?? Did their own lies and subsequent guilt/stress
kill them? hmmmmmmm

But yes, add the Jews to the 2 billion Christians. They all claim
the same God ... although the Jewish God isn't a trinity. How
many Jews in the world are there anyways?

Amen to that flyersfan

indeed I dont understand why Catholics cant be called Christians. Most Christians take this to deep offense to be put in the same category as Catholics. Or at least most of the Christians out here.

yeah he's completely right about the communion and Easter Vigil mass?! are you out of your mind. Most devout catholics dont even go to that mass. Its long and strung out. (thats from experience :lol

My god is better then your god blaaa blaaa blaaa
It takes people to kill people
god os there tp srout them out

[edit on 27-3-2005 by allwayslooken]

But yes, add the Jews to the 2 billion Christians. They all claim the same God ... although the Jewish God isn't a trinity. How
many Jews in the world are there anyways?

Don't forget Islam. Same God, the God of Abraham, just different interpretations of the same God.



[edit on 27/3/05 by Skibum]

I think, taken in context with all the nuances, it makes perfect sense. Of course alot of study and years has lead me to this conclusion. Everyone can interpret it differently, though

FlyersFan...

why are you talking like this to me???

ok...

christians and catholics are the same...

i didn't know this, calm down...

i went to mass because its my faith...

i, also, question my faith instead of following it blindly...

you should question your faith too...

there are MANY MANY religions in todays world...

why is christianity the BEST or the "truth"???

anyway...

lets say that God made the earth and manking (lets think of it as a game)...

now, God created rules for the game (the 10 commandments)...

God is the "judge" of this game...

weather or not we cheat (do evil) during this game (life) will not effect God because He will punish or award us when it is over (when we die)...

so, if we cheat during this game we will be punished when it is over NOT during...

so why the heck would God punish us (the gread flood / sodom and gomorrah) DURUING the game when His PLAN was to punish us when its over (the judgement when we die)???

to me, this looks like God is CHANGING His own rules...

does this make God decisive???

o0o yeah...

Jehosephat...

i did not know that God "warned" us with 120 years to change...

thanks for teaching me this...

BTW dnero6911...

your post was very hard to understand...

it did not even pertain to my original post...

no offense...

please discuss it some more...

god killed for reasons, and we specimens are none to justify whichever his means consisted of, his mindset and persona dont match up to numbers calculations etc like most computers do

in other words, god is never grounded in data, and many sourceful knowledges are obviously unattainable

By installing the aging process in our design the creator of all things has killed every single man, women and child that has ever been born. No exceptions.

As for the christian god, i'll have to go with Mark Twains description:

"If the Bible is true then never has a more damning autobiography been written. What kind of monster would slay the first born children of Egypt for the sins of the Pharoah?"

Love and light to each of you,

Wupy

so, if we cheat during this game we will be punished when it is over NOT during... so why the heck would God punish us (the gread flood / sodom and gomorrah) DURUING the game when His PLAN was to punish us when its over (the judgement when we die)???

I don't see any difference between God judging before or after death.
Perhaps in the cases you mentioned, God knew that the final judgement was not going to be in favor of the ones he slew. Maybe God had seen enough. If he had determined the ones he slew were "evil" in nature and would never change then why let them continue to live?


[edit on 27/3/05 by Skibum]

Im Catholic and if my God killed millions, they probably deserved it. The cities Saddom and Gammora resembeled modern day San Francisco and had lost their way. My point is....

God is not a nice guy, he is a vengeful and jealous God. He created us and he can destroy us and he really does not ask much in return.


Maximu§

Please keep in mind that anything you hear or read about God is just an opinion. Nothing more.

Love and light,

Wupy

All gods are evil, they just like to sat there and watch us kill each other over them...

You know what i think? i think god is for the weak minded, it stops you from thinking too much. question everything!

All you have to do to go to heaven is believe that Jesus existed as a symbol, (and much more of course), but primarily as a symbol of Gods forgiveness and accept Jesus for that, and thats it. THATS IT.

Of course most who belive this will pursue the teachings of Jesus further and thats where you get all the "here's how you act like a human being" stuff. lol...

Anyways, I stress myself out reading and hearing people who take incredible strides to discredit someone who supposedly never existed.


I think that many people immediately throw Christ away because of some of the people in fundamentalist churches. They may seem extremely uptight and judging. ETC ETC ETC.

READ THE BOOK NOT THE PEOPLE. Jesus is incredibly tolerant and kind, and also remember that he lived in a time of political and religous perversion. The people were very cruel to those who had any form of sickness, or those who were seen as outsiders. Ie. Prostitutes, tax collectors, neighboring groups of people in the local geography. BUT JESUS WASNT INTERESTED IN WHO WAS POPULAR.

Jesus Christ lived in a time where there was an NWO, just not like we see it today. The priests ran everything and as we know power corrupts. Jesus stood up to this NWO, by blatantly revealing their atrocities and by also showing the people that the sick and those who were different from them were wanted and cared for by God.

If people would get away from looking at what many super-uptight, super-conservative people who are christians are like... and just look at Jesus.