Roswell: The First Witness featuring Maj. Jesse Marcel's Secret Diary

originally posted by: mirageman
Apparently in part two of this show they try to enhance the Ramey Memo [again] and the "ultimate results will be somewhat surprising". So watch this space.

Maybe they'll try this new AI enhancement people are so jazzed about. I spent a fair amount of time on that thing, too. Couldn't get much out of it, really. Some people see all kinds of things in it that I do not. For all anyone knows it could be about some new latrines being delivered to the base.

a reply to: mirageman

Pflock was the one agitating NM Congressman Schiff to open investigations into the Roswell story in the 90s.

Interesting, he likely changed his mind about Roswell since I believe his book was published in 2001. He did mention, I recall vaguely( not 100 percent sure) he said he used to be a pro-alien UFO Roswell guy.

Apparently, in part two of this show, they try to enhance the Ramey Memo [again], and the "ultimate results will be somewhat surprising." So watch this space.

The last time they did that was on Josh Gates' Expedition Unknown and Keven Randle was there and a super expert, who kind of let down the pro-alien Roswell myth. I don't recall the details, but his interpretation was different and didn't reflect any alien conversation.

This guy was the best expert who ever looked at that memo and had very advanced tech.

Maybe they will have the same guy. Or hopefully some more advanced method.

a reply to: Blue Shift

And it all started coming out in the '80s long after the Roswell occurrence in 47

Let me be clear here. Though I think Roswell and other incidents are overblown, I personally think this UFO mystery has a degree of legitimate phenomena behind it. Maybe there's a small chance Roswell does have something but the evidence just IMO is not there.

And as bad as Rendlesham has become, it is better than Roswell IMO since you do have claimed sightings of some weird crafts.

Roswell has been built up in the '80s where you had Bill Moore and that crew of UFOlogists interfacing with notorious people like Doty, and the aviary to embellish it.

IF this doc is to be legit it will cover the Mogul theory and the 80's activities that were the catalyst for Roswell's rise in popularity.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
My thought about Roswell was that if it wasn't a "crashed disc" as they were so quick to tell the press, then what could be so sensitive that it remains secret to this day? Then add on top of that the fact that White Sands was crawling with Nazis at the time (Operation Paperclip).

I should think that they were pretty busy reassembling the rest of the 100 V-2's that they had had shipped from Peenemuende, as well as going through the 14 tons of documents and assisting in the translation of the really important ones. The first one was successfully launched the year before. It could be that Roswell had something to do with that, but it certainly doesn't look like a V-2 from the photos.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
My favorite theory at this point is that those Nazis at White Sands were involved in some highly questionable research having to do with determining whether a human being could withstand the forces of liftoff and space travel whether it would be for guidance or transport. Werner Von Braun's lifelong goal was to put a human being to the Moon, and I would not put it past that guy to see his stay at White Sands as an opportunity to keep working toward making that happen.

They didn't need to do that research, that research had been done already at Dachau with human test subjects and I believe that the US did capture that information when they liberated Dachau.

Von Braun's lifelong goal, like Robert H Goddard and Jack Parsons, was space travel - flying bombs, bazookas and jet propulsion were merely war-time diversions they were compelled to involve themselves in.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
So I figure there were quite a few undocumented modified V-2 flights with whatever marginal human cargo they could find, including dead or alive war prisoners, regular prisoners, infirm or malformed people kept in homes, even children (to keep the payload light).

They were definately doing something with the other 99 V-2s, launching them, attempting to improve range and controls would be my guess.

I don't see how they could have been modified for human or even animal cargo at that point and in that time frame or really what purpose it would serve.

a reply to: Willtell

....Let me be clear here. Though I think Roswell and other incidents are overblown, I personally think this UFO mystery has a degree of legitimate phenomena behind it. Maybe there's a small chance Roswell does have something but the evidence just IMO is not there....

Agreed. There is something to the UFO phenomenon and there remains a residue of cases that remain intriguing. Hessdalen remains a particularly interesting place that is still being studied today. Others might eventually be solved by the release of secret files.

Besides the interference of the intel community (which seems to be largely an American problem), my other issue with ufology is that there are too many involved in the field of ufology with their own motives that do not want any case ever to be resolved. Unless it has a paranormal explanation.

Ok..a little more of a teaser...a commercial for next Saturday’s episode shows a blurred text word (the teaser) presumably of the person signing off on the memo at bottom of the memo.

The audio from a person pointing to the text word in the memo says, “TEMPLE” ... “was the code name of J. Edgar Hoover”

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Blue Shift

Well, if Marcel and Mac Brazel and his son were the first on the scene and neither of them as far as I know reported little dead aliens there then the stories are from other parties peripheral to eyewitnesses.

Assuming a single crash site.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Ok..a little more of a teaser...a commercial for next Saturday’s episode shows a blurred text word (the teaser) presumably of the person signing off on the memo at bottom of the memo.

The audio from a person pointing to the text word in the memo says, “TEMPLE” ... “was the code name of J. Edgar Hoover”

Seems like some desperate grasping to me. I am personally inclined on this occasion to pay more attention to the messenger, General Ramey.

At Operation Crossroads in 1946, Ramey was the director of the "Able" shot and commander of Task Force 1.5.[2][3]

en.wikipedia.org...

If the Soviet Union didn't test their first atom bomb until 1949 - and it was evidently a huge and unexpected event when they did - isn't it more likely that Project Mogul was for the purpose of measuring possible radiation pollution as a result of Able and Baker?

I'll have to dig it out, but there is a comment in one of the reports about the Washington Flap, I think, which refers to the increase in background radiation implying that there is some kind of relationship or indeed, that that was something that could be brought into public attention if too much scrutiny was applied to the flap. Not sure myself, I just noted it as incongruous but it sort of seems less so now.

Another CIA guy at the head of this investigation. Kevin Randle the well-known long-time UFO hunter also in this doc is also an ex-IC GUY.

It never ends, CIA or ex-CIA or IC people always all over this UFO field.

strange

or not strange... it's by design

a reply to: Willtell

'UFOs' in a manner of speaking are just another form of 'sky daddy' that so many are looking for.

Oh not in reality.. but reality doesn't make any difference, if the illusion is taken to be real.

A couple of religions have captured most of the credulous with their systems, so
'UFO sky daddies' were still available on the table, and the USG (and others) have
grabbed them up.

It's really that simple.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Or sky mommy, or even sky baby, or in this case sky weather balloon. Strange, when I type this very line behind this one I got a big Deja Vu vibe!

Anyway...

Don't you think many humans need that?

Have something missing or an added something that makes them needy?

And that many perceive it from a perspective of not necessarily need but understanding.

In other words, two people can arrive at truth from different angles. One has emotional content behind it and another less emotional or another from an intellectual perspective.

a reply to: Willtell

Yes, most certainly. And we may have.

If you want to discuss this issue, feel free to hop over to my latest 'UFO' thread.

I don't want to 'crap up' this thread; want to keep it on focus.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

My very thinking

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
I'll have to dig it out, but there is a comment in one of the reports about the Washington Flap, I think, which refers to the increase in background radiation implying that there is some kind of relationship or indeed, that that was something that could be brought into public attention if too much scrutiny was applied to the flap. Not sure myself, I just noted it as incongruous but it sort of seems less so now.

Took me a while to dig it out, it wasn't where I thought it was - wasn't directly related to the Washington Flap...

There is some strength to the hypothesis that many of the unexplained sightings of UFO's may be electromagnetic or electrostatic in character. Factors supporting this hypothesis are:

Absence of sound, although apparently moving rapidly in the atmosphere.

Phenomena are apparently affected by shock waves or electromagnetic radiation of aircraft.

Reports of erratic operation of various kinds of instruments in the vicinity of sightings.

Sightings of UFO's reported at Los Alamos and Oak Ridge, at a time when the background radiation count had risen inexplicably. Here we run out of even "blue yonder" explanations that might be tenable, and, we still are left with numbers of incredible reports from credible observers.

This is followed by a memorandum...

22 August 1952

MEMORANDUM FOR: Deputy Director (Intelligence)

SUBJECT: USSR and Satellite Mention of Flying Saucers

1. A search of Foreign Documents Division files has so far produced no factual evidence that subject has been mentioned in the Soviet Satellite press within the last two years. It is believed that a derisive comment was made in a Russian newspaper in 1948 on this subject but so far the article has not been found.

2. FBID has one broadcast on this subject, dated 10 June 1951, which is quoted below:
Summary - In what appears to be Moscow's first mention of Flying Saucers "Listener's Mailbag" answers questions on the subject to the effect that "The Chief of Nuclear Physics in the US Naval Research Bureau explained them recently as used for stratospheric studies. US government circles knew all along of the harmless nature of these objects, but if they refrained from denying "false reports, the purpose behind such tactics was to fan war hysteria in the country."

3. A State Department cable recently received from Budapest quotes the August 14th copy of Szabad Nep as follows:
"Flying Saucer stories are another American attempt to fan war hysteria." Radar detection of saucers is quoted in the article and it comments on the ridiculous aspects of the source of the mystery. The article concludes that it is part of American rulers propaganda to prove the Western countries are threatening.

4. FBID has been requested to alert the field stations to any mention of Flying Saucers by iron Curtain Countries.

www.cufon.org...

The same document also indicates that there is a discrepancy between the 'official' start of the Skyhook balloon program and it's actual start.

Anyway, according to wikipedia...

In the late 1940s, Project Skyhook was conceived of as a means by which plastic balloons could be used to transmit or send instruments into the stratosphere to conduct research. This project carried forward work from an earlier project, Helios, that General Mills and Jean Piccard initiated to use arrays of giant plastic balloons to carry humans aloft.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...

Where as the document in question states...

The Mantell case, referred to by Mr. Strong has been explained as a misinterpretation of a Navy Skyhook balloon. This was in January 1947. There were three interceptor aircraft. One, piloted by Capt. Thomas Mantell radioed in that he was going to climb to 20,000 feet in an attempt to close in. His rather wild report that the object was "tremendous" and his subsequent crash are laid to the effects of anoxia since his plane carried no oxygen equipment.

www.cufon.org...

I'm not sure how relevent that may or may not be, but thought I'd throw it out there.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Do you find any value in MM's theory, that the 1952 flap was simply the capitol lights reflecting off a temperature inversion, or an early test of project Paladium radar spoofing?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't think there were very many claims of visual sightings for that and I don't thing the Capitol (is that what you meant) was involved at all.

Wasn't it primarily radar contacts? Intermittent and varied?

a reply to: Phage

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Can you show where

simply the capitol lights reflecting off a temperature inversion

is mentioned? I did a quick search and couldn't find it.

As I said, there don't seem to have been many visual sightings recorded. None associated with the Capitol, as far as I can tell.

a reply to: Phage

It may have been all the way back to 2014.. I was very impressed with MM's work on it..
I'm not senile (yet).

If I run across it, or MM fesses up, we can then discuss it.

There's also this related post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I myself think the 1952 'wave' was a non-event with a prosaic explanation,
but I haven't investigated it in detail.