The Amy Coney Barrett Abortion Arms Race Is On

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Xtrozero

Funny thing is, If you cause a woman to miscarry by some overt action you can be charged with murder
but if a woman does it herself it's a medical procedure
How this isn't a 14th amendment issue is beyond me
it takes some serious mental gymnastics to say that it isn't

Its legal because the law says that it's a woman's choice, not yours.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Exactly
Why are some fetuses considered people why others aren't?
Seems like an equal protection case to me

a reply to: Sookiechacha
That's circular thinking
It's a logical fallacy
And it's intellectually dishonest

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
There are other ways to deal with consequences than to allow nature to take it's course.

Like using contraception? You brought smoking and cancer to the table, well, most medical agencies refuse to give a healthy lung transplant to those who continue to smoke and many refuse them to former smokers in lieu of providing the healthy lungs to people not "victimized" by their own bad choices. In other words, an ounce of prevention should always be held as greater than a pound of cure. So let's not be childlike in our mental simplicity here, be forthright... we're not talking about the "consequences of women having sex" we're talking about the consequences of women choosing not to utilize prophylactic measures to protect themselves against unwanted consequences of irresponsible sex. Hell, we're not even discussing the morning after pill here... it's very much a case of buyer's remorse and, if you're going to try to compare it to some other medical situation, it's sort of akin to the smoker finding out he or she has cancer and then asking the doctor "Yeah, just remove that tumor and cover my ass for the bad choices I made" while, in most cases, fully intending to light up another smoke once they walk out of the office.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Roe V Wade assures a woman's right to an abortion BEFORE viability.

So 20 weeks? Seems abortions do happen after that without it being an issue to the health of the baby or mother. So can we say an abortion of a healthy fetus after 20 week with no increase risk to the mother is murder and should be tried as such for both the mother and doctor?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Xtrozero

Funny thing is, If you cause a woman to miscarry by some overt action you can be charged with murder
but if a woman does it herself it's a medical procedure
How this isn't a 14th amendment issue is beyond me
it takes some serious mental gymnastics to say that it isn't

Its legal because the law says that it's a woman's choice, not yours.

Slavery was legal because the law said slaves weren't citizens.
Lobotomies were legal because the law said it was a doctor's perrogative.
Beating your wife was legal because the law said she was a husband's property...

Shall I continue, or would you agree that the law is often wrong in what it says?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Xtrozero

Funny thing is, If you cause a woman to miscarry by some overt action you can be charged with murder
but if a woman does it herself it's a medical procedure
How this isn't a 14th amendment issue is beyond me
it takes some serious mental gymnastics to say that it isn't

Its legal because the law says that it's a woman's choice, not yours.

Oh, and by the way, we had another instance in our nation's history that enabled one group of human beings the power to deem another group human beings or not
That instance was just as morally bankrupt as this one is

a reply to: burdman30ott6
Beat me to it

a reply to: Arizonaguy

The Republican platform says that a fertilized egg is entitled to personhood, the Supreme Court of United States disagrees. The 14th Amendment guarantees rights to persons born.

The Act that you're referring to was enacted due to outrage that Scott Peterson murdered his pregnant wife, who gave birth hours after her death. It was believed that he was born alive. Pro-lifers, who pushed the bill, promised that it would never affect a woman's right to choice.

Of course they lied, because they use that law to argue against a woman's right to choose.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Slavery was legal because the law said slaves weren't citizens.

But the law never claimed that they weren't "persons". Slaves were counted as 3/5th of a person before the 14th Amendment counted them as 100%.

Lobotomies were legal because the law said it was a doctor's perrogative.
Beating your wife was legal because the law said she was a husband's property...

These are all people who have been born.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Its legal because the law says that it's a woman's choice, not yours.

Why then does the man need to pay for anything if it is the woman's choice...seems we should have a choice too in choosing to support or not, right...all mansplaining...

I can agree with that, its your choice all the way, and its my choice if I want to be apart of it in anyway physically or monetarily.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

You're citing the Federal Law
Many states had similar laws on the books long before that

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Roe V Wade assures a woman's right to an abortion BEFORE viability.

So 20 weeks? Seems abortions do happen after that without it being an issue to the health of the baby or mother. So can we say an abortion of a healthy fetus after 20 week with no increase risk to the mother is murder and should be tried as such for both the mother and doctor?

Viability is generally closer to 22-24 weeks, for a healthy fetus. Spontaneous abortions also happen after 20 weeks. Nature doesn't care.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Sookiechacha

You're citing the Federal Law
Many states had similar laws on the books long before that

And many states' constitutions have incorporated the guidelines of Roe V Wade.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Why then does the man need to pay for anything if it is the woman's choice...seems we should have a choice too in choosing to support or not, right...all mansplaining...

Take it up with the women you're having sex with. Buyer beware.

a reply to: Sookiechacha
And many states don't agree with Roe V Wade
Is it possible for you to engage in this debate without using a logical fallacy?
Your last 3 posts main points are all made by using a logical fallacy

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Slavery was legal because the law said slaves weren't citizens.

But the law never claimed that they weren't "persons". Slaves were counted as 3/5th of a person before the 14th Amendment counted them as 100%.

That's splitting hairs. The 3/5ths count was a political tool to determine taxation and representation in Congress, only. The fact that a large outlay of public dollars is directed towards prenatal and neonatal care would indicate that the system absolutely recognizes a fetus as a separate entity beyond the woman carrying the fetus.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Viability is generally closer to 22-24 weeks, for a healthy fetus. Spontaneous abortions also happen after 20 weeks. Nature doesn't care.

Science and tech keep making it sooner and sooner. No one is talking about babies with no scull or fetuses aborted naturally... People can be murdered and then people can just die,....right...lol

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Slavery was legal because the law said slaves weren't citizens.

But the law never claimed that they weren't "persons". Slaves were counted as 3/5th of a person before the 14th Amendment counted them as 100%.

Lobotomies were legal because the law said it was a doctor's perrogative.
Beating your wife was legal because the law said she was a husband's property...

These are all people who have been born.

Wow
Way to totally misrepresent the facts
This 3/5 personage didn't make them people
If an owner wanted to kill his slave he could
If an owner wanted to rape his slave he could
If an owner wanted to shive pineapples up his slave's bum all day long he could
They had no rights as a person
The 3/5s clause was solely for census purposes

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Take it up with the women you're having sex with. Buyer beware.

So I should be able to choose abortion too if she doesn't want to...Sounds equal... Takes two to have sex and it takes two not to have protection.