The Absolute Power of Christianity!

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Maybe x-rays were mixed up with another patient and after your friend was told what she had, she could have 'thought' that she felt the effects of the tumor.. like a psychosomatic effect.. However, rather than showing themselves up.. perhaps the Doctors thought it'd be better to then show the clear x-ray that nothing is there and say themselves 'omg.. it's a miracle.. we can't explain it'.. merely to save their own skin as they screwed up with patients x-rays.

Who has more faith here?

I'm not saying that happened.. but mix ups do occur.. i'm saying sometimes there are other sides to a story.

I'm glad you got a hoot out of it.. and i don't have 'faith' in that anyways.. i was just saying there would be other explanations.. not just 'god did it'.

again i'm glad you found it amusing.. real good contribution there.. ''who has more faith hahaha'.. what happened to coming down on one liner responses?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I'm not saying that happened.. but mix ups do occur.. i'm saying sometimes there are other sides to a story.

Certainly, I can understand that. I don't know what kind of info I can get tomorrow but will try.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I'm glad you got a hoot out of it.. and i don't have 'faith' in that anyways.. i was just saying there would be other explanations.. not just 'god did it'.

Would you be willing to accept "God did it" as a possibility?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
again i'm glad you found it amusing.. real good contribution there.. ''who has more faith hahaha'.. what happened to coming down on one liner responses?

He probably got a penalty for it. I know I have a few times in the past...but the one-liners I have put in have been worth it. Usually it's an objective question that from me.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by curiousity
The church is the Body of His believers, who "follow the Lamb wherever He goes", who are Named by His Name, married to Him as His Bride, and soon to be revealed in the manifestation of the sons of God.

For now, we are God's children, not yet fully conformed into the image of His dear Son, but born of the Spirit, washed in the Blood of His Son, having overcome the evil by the Blood and the word of our testimony.

NO OTHER religion on earth has a Savior Who can forgive sins because He has suffered the death due sinners for the sinner. NO OTHER religion on earth has a LIVING Savior Who "ever lives to make intercession" for His people. NONE has a Savior Who is coming back to earth for them, having died and resurrected to live forever.

There is no power of salvation, forgiveness, and rest in other religions and the reason is they are not based on the Power of the Universe, Who alone is worthy to be praised.

Amen, Curiosity; very eloquently stated.

One day, it is written, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

..and that day may not be far off, it seems, if things in Israel continue to mirror biblical prophecy. Thank you, I have been away from this site far too long but am back now and eager to "contend for the faith" with my other brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

Blessings to all who eagerly look for the coming of pur Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,

LS

Originally posted by lightseeker
Blessings to all who eagerly look for the coming of pur Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,

If you bothered to read the bible, you may have read when Jesus told his disciples that their generation would not pass before he would came back.. Their generation did pass, as have many more generations.. That prophecy has not come true, Jesus lied..

Blessings to all the dillusional people who eagerly look for the coming of your Lord..

I can look for the passage if you want me to, where Jesus says he'll come back during his disciple's generation..

If you eagerly await his return, you'll be waiting, you'll die waiting, just like the generation before you died waiting, and the generation before that..

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by lightseeker
Blessings to all who eagerly look for the coming of pur Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ,

If you bothered to read the bible, you may have read when Jesus told his disciples that their generation would not pass before he would came back.. Their generation did pass, as have many more generations.. That prophecy has not come true, Jesus lied..

Blessings to all the dillusional people who eagerly look for the coming of your Lord..

I can look for the passage if you want me to, where Jesus says he'll come back during his disciple's generation..


You're speaking of MARK 13: 1-37

Jesus is talking about the "End Times" & the signs... and the tribulation.
The generation he says shall not pass is the generation which happens to be alive when this period begins.

You can take any single verse of scripture, & miss the context of what is being said if you don't read the verses that go with it. (which is what you've done)

So no, Jesus did not lie. The generation that he spoke about has yet to be revealed. (it could be OUR generation..... or the next... or the next...etc.)
But I bet it's closer than many people think.

If you eagerly await his return, you'll be waiting, you'll die waiting, just like the generation before you died waiting, and the generation before that..

Now lets look at the ACTUAL passage.. afterall sometimes you can take them out of context like the person above..

Mark 13: 24-30

But in those days, following that distress,
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light,
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

So 'during' his disciple's lifetime the sun should have darkened, the moon give no light, the stars fall and so on.. and the most important part ''this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened''.. there you have it.. i'm not sure how much clearer you want it to be. the end times should have happened during the disciple's lifetime according to Jesus, yet it did not.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Now lets look at the ACTUAL passage.. afterall sometimes you can take them out of context like the person above..

Mark 13: 24-30

But in those days, following that distress,
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light,
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

So 'during' his disciple's lifetime the sun should have darkened, the moon give no light, the stars fall and so on.. and the most important part ''this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened''.. there you have it.. i'm not sure how much clearer you want it to be. the end times should have happened during the disciple's lifetime according to Jesus, yet it did not.

Jesus' disciples were asking him what the signs would be at the "end" / his return.

His reply about this "generation" shall not pass until all these things have happened, didn't necessarily mean their particular lifetime...

"Generation" as it was written in the original language, meant "nation".
So he was speaking about the people who would be living in the "end days", & that the nation in which the disciples lived, (Israel) would remain until these signs have appeared.

He wasn't saying, "You (the disciples) will undoubtedly see these things while you are personally alive".
He was saying the nation of Israel won't pass away (or be destroyed/taken over) before these signs appear, & these thigns come to pass. But when you see these things happen, (the tribulation occur) know that the time is near... so WATCH.

THAT is the context of the scripture.



Also: Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

The Gospel was NOT published, or taught in ALL NATIONS at the time of the disciples.
We are pretty close NOWADAYS though.....
But Jesus said the word must be spread to all nations around the Earth first. And between the internet, Global satellite TV, & missionaries traveling worldwide to teach the gospel, I'd guess that every nation has just about been given the word of God.

That is why Jesus didn't mean "during the disciples" lifetime.

Does that make sense?


[edit on 31-7-2006 by marko1970]

it says 'generation' not nation.. if it meant nation it would say nation..

you change a word to make it suit your needs.. and change the context to make it in to something completly different..

what about Jordan? that was one country with israel at one point called palestine.. now it's israel and jordan.. so does jordan have to 'pass away' as well because it was one country back in the day..

the fact that it says 'this generation shall not pass, until all these things have happened'.. therefore if you use it as meaning 'nation'.. then all of these things will happen first, and then israel will pass away.. that makes no sense, as above people we're saying that israel needs to be destroyed first for the prophecy to be true, yet if you use the word 'nation' instead of generation, that means that the rapture comes first before israel passes away..

hence, that's why it makes sense that he's talking about his disciples generation and not their 'nation'.. he's talking about generation as in the lifetime of his disciples, and that all of these things will happen before their generation passes..

Also: Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

The Gospel was NOT published, or taught in ALL NATIONS at the time of the disciples.
We are pretty close NOWADAYS though.....
But Jesus said the word must be spread to all nations around the Earth first. And between the internet, Global satellite TV, & missionaries traveling worldwide to teach the gospel, I'd guess that every nation has just about been given the word of God.

That is why Jesus didn't mean "during the disciples" lifetime.

Does that make sense?

why do they use the word 'nation' there to mean nation.. yet further on use the word 'generation'.. why did they not just use the word nation again.. and if generation means nation, then why are they using the word nation back at mark 13:10, yet not using the word nation at mark 13:30?

you're the one taking it out of context.. you're twisting it to mean something that it does not..

Originally posted by shaunybaby
it says 'generation' not nation.. if it meant nation it would say nation..

you change a word to make it suit your needs.. and change the context to make it in to something completly different..

what about Jordan? that was one country with israel at one point called palestine.. now it's israel and jordan.. so does jordan have to 'pass away' as well because it was one country back in the day..

the fact that it says 'this generation shall not pass, until all these things have happened'.. therefore if you use it as meaning 'nation'.. then all of these things will happen first, and then israel will pass away.. that makes no sense, as above people we're saying that israel needs to be destroyed first for the prophecy to be true, yet if you use the word 'nation' instead of generation, that means that the rapture comes first before israel passes away..

hence, that's why it makes sense that he's talking about his disciples generation and not their 'nation'.. he's talking about generation as in the lifetime of his disciples, and that all of these things will happen before their generation passes..

Also: Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

The Gospel was NOT published, or taught in ALL NATIONS at the time of the disciples.
We are pretty close NOWADAYS though.....
But Jesus said the word must be spread to all nations around the Earth first. And between the internet, Global satellite TV, & missionaries traveling worldwide to teach the gospel, I'd guess that every nation has just about been given the word of God.

That is why Jesus didn't mean "during the disciples" lifetime.

Does that make sense?

why do they use the word 'nation' there to mean nation.. yet further on use the word 'generation'.. why did they not just use the word nation again.. and if generation means nation, then why are they using the word nation back at mark 13:10, yet not using the word nation at mark 13:30?

you're the one taking it out of context.. you're twisting it to mean something that it does not..

If you pay attention to the Parable of the Fig Tree (which jesus mentions concerning this whole subject) You would understand what the context truly is.

Also, if you understand the "mustard seed" parable, you would understand what category you happen to fall into.

It's a shame that you're missing the whole meaning here.

Okay, this detail in the discussion has me interested. I'd like to point out a footnote that is in the Bible next to the word generation. Here it is:

Mark 13:30 (New International Version)

"I tell you the truth, this generation(a) will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Footnotes:

Mark 13:30 Or race

Ah! So, according to the Greek it could also mean "race".


Or The Message translation:

"Take a lesson from the fig tree. From the moment you notice its buds form, the merest hint of green, you know summer's just around the corner. And so it is with you. When you see all these things, you know he is at the door. Don't take this lightly. I'm not just saying this for some future generation, but for this one, too—these things will happen. Sky and earth will wear out; my words won't wear out."

Oooh! Oooh! Good stuff! How do we learn more?

"The Problem

The bold area in Greek reads "γενεα" (genea), which can mean "generation" (not to be confused with "γενος" (genos) which means "offspring"). Here it would seem that our Messiah prophesized incorrectly in the Greek.

The Solution

The answer comes in the Aramaic. Here we don't see the word for "generation," but the word "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvtho), which means "family," or "family branch." A "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvtho), is like a ray in geometry. It starts at a point, then continues onwards. Usually "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvotho, plural) come from other "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvotho, plural), so we can see these branching rays make up a family tree.

The only way for a "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) can be extinguished, is if the entire family is wiped out, an entire branch destroyed. And "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) can also be used to describe a people as a whole, like someone could be from an Italian "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) or the "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) of New York.

So you can see that since "γενεα" (genea) implies a length of time equal to one person's lifespan, a generation, a "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) can last from a few days to thousands of years (for example, we are all still within the "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) of Adam).

The Significance

Who Was He Talking To?

Since we now know what "ܐܬܒܪܫ" (sharvtho) means, how do we know which "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) our Messiah was referring to? Taking a look at the beginning of the chapter, at verse 3:

" And as he sat on the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are all about to be accomplished? " -Mark 13:3-4

Bingo: His disciples. But some of them came from different biological families. What did they all have in common?

They were Christians.

The Bride of Christ

This is of even more importance, considering the events of the night before the Messiah was handed over:

When the he gave the last supper, it paralled the Jewish betrothal custom of winedrinking.

Back in the days of olde, in Jewish custom, when a man wanted to get betrothed to a woman, a cup of wine would be poured at the table. He would drink from it, then offer it to his intended. If she took the wine and drank from it as well, it meant that she accepted the betrothal offer.

This also jives with the many parables Yeshu' taught concerning marriage, placing himself as the bridegroom.

The Conclusion

Putting It All Together

"Verily I say to you, That this family shall not pass away, until all these things occur." -Mark 13:30

The Christian family will not die out.

Further Study

So see how "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) is used in other passages, take a peek at the article"
www.aramaicnt.org...


Mmm...fun stuff to chew on. Yet, all of this is the meat, not the milk. Which is correct? Hm, not sure. They all say round about the same thing. I can assure you one thing though, Christ didn't write the Bible in the English we use today. If it troubles you, my recommendation is to pray about it. Better to go right to the source for these kinds of answers.

[edit on 31-7-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Okay, this detail in the discussion has me interested. I'd like to point out a footnote that is in the Bible next to the word generation. Here it is:

Mark 13:30 (New International Version)

"I tell you the truth, this generation(a) will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Footnotes:

Mark 13:30 Or race

Ah! So, according to the Greek it could also mean "race".


Or The Message translation:

"Take a lesson from the fig tree. From the moment you notice its buds form, the merest hint of green, you know summer's just around the corner. And so it is with you. When you see all these things, you know he is at the door. Don't take this lightly. I'm not just saying this for some future generation, but for this one, too—these things will happen. Sky and earth will wear out; my words won't wear out."

Oooh! Oooh! Good stuff! How do we learn more?

"The Problem

The bold area in Greek reads "γενεα" (genea), which can mean "generation" (not to be confused with "γενος" (genos) which means "offspring"). Here it would seem that our Messiah prophesized incorrectly in the Greek.

The Solution

The answer comes in the Aramaic. Here we don't see the word for "generation," but the word "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvtho), which means "family," or "family branch." A "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvtho), is like a ray in geometry. It starts at a point, then continues onwards. Usually "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvotho, plural) come from other "ܫܪܒܬܸܐ" (sharvotho, plural), so we can see these branching rays make up a family tree.

The only way for a "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) can be extinguished, is if the entire family is wiped out, an entire branch destroyed. And "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) can also be used to describe a people as a whole, like someone could be from an Italian "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) or the "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) of New York.

So you can see that since "γενεα" (genea) implies a length of time equal to one person's lifespan, a generation, a "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) can last from a few days to thousands of years (for example, we are all still within the "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) of Adam).

The Significance

Who Was He Talking To?

Since we now know what "ܐܬܒܪܫ" (sharvtho) means, how do we know which "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) our Messiah was referring to? Taking a look at the beginning of the chapter, at verse 3:

" And as he sat on the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are all about to be accomplished? " -Mark 13:3-4

Bingo: His disciples. But some of them came from different biological families. What did they all have in common?

They were Christians.

The Bride of Christ

This is of even more importance, considering the events of the night before the Messiah was handed over:

When the he gave the last supper, it paralled the Jewish betrothal custom of winedrinking.

Back in the days of olde, in Jewish custom, when a man wanted to get betrothed to a woman, a cup of wine would be poured at the table. He would drink from it, then offer it to his intended. If she took the wine and drank from it as well, it meant that she accepted the betrothal offer.

This also jives with the many parables Yeshu' taught concerning marriage, placing himself as the bridegroom.

The Conclusion

Putting It All Together

"Verily I say to you, That this family shall not pass away, until all these things occur." -Mark 13:30

The Christian family will not die out.

Further Study

So see how "ܫܪܒܬܐ" (sharvtho) is used in other passages, take a peek at the article"
www.aramaicnt.org...


Mmm...fun stuff to chew on. Yet, all of this is the meat, not the milk.

Well put! That's along the lines of what I was trying to say, but couldn't quite put it together.
Fantastic job of explaining that one!


That's why it's important to read ALL the verses along with the one in "question".
You can miss a LOT if you try to show just one verse in a chapter.

All I can say is it's VERY inetresting to see what's going on currently. Especially with Israel approaching their 40th year of becoming a nation since 1967......

(Remember the number 40 seems to be a significant number in the Bible as well)

It could mean race or it could mean lifetime(generation)..

so it can be interpreted to mean nation/race.. hence the passage rings true, however if interpreted to mean generation.. it means Jesus lied and that the prophecy is false.. no prizes for guessing which interpretation a Christian might choose..

Is there a 'correct' interpretation of the passage.. or that we don't actually know the correct interpretation as the word used can have a doublemeaning?

Kudos on the translations saint.. I've also read somewhere that the word used to describe The Virgin Mary, can also be interpreted as 'young woman'.. yet we use 'virgin'..

My only problem still with the passage is that at Mark 13:10 it actually uses the word 'nation'.. if 'generation' means race/nation, then why not use that word again inplace at Mark 13:30.. thus avoiding the confusion..

[edit on 31-7-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Kudos on the translations saint..

Thanks for the props ,

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I've also read somewhere that the word used to describe The Virgin Mary, can also be interpreted as 'young woman'.. yet we use 'virgin'..

Back then, a young woman was not frolicking around with men until married. She was already betrothed, not long until they were to marry. Here's the interesting bit. When Joseph knew she was pregnant, he started packing his bags to take off. Any guesses why? You got it, he knew it wasn't him who impregnated her. It took an angel to stop him and say (in essence), "Hold up Joe, stick to your girl. God is at work here."

Here's where Mary says to the angel that it's impossible since she is an untouched woman:

"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. For nothing is impossible with God." - Luke 1:34-37

Joe ready to say "see ya!":

"This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us."

When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."

- Matthew 1:20-25

[edit on 31-7-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Kudos on the translations saint..

Thanks for the props

,

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I've also read somewhere that the word used to describe The Virgin Mary, can also be interpreted as 'young woman'.. yet we use 'virgin'..

Back then, a young woman was not frolicking around with men until married. She was already betrothed, not long until they were to marry. Here's the interesting bit. When Joseph knew she was pregnant, he started packing his bags to take off. Any guesses why? You got it, he knew it wasn't him who impregnated her. It took an angel to stop him and say (in essence), "Hold up Joe, stick to your girl. God is at work here."

Here's where Mary says to the angel that it's impossible since she is an untouched woman:

"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. For nothing is impossible with God." - Luke 1:34-37

Here are a couple of other translations that emphasise that Mary was defending her virginity:

34And Mary said to the angel, How can this be, since I have no [intimacy with any man as a] husband?

35Then the angel said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you [like a shining cloud]; and so the holy (pure, sinless) Thing (Offspring) which shall be born of you will be called the Son of God.

36And listen! Your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is now the sixth month with her who was called barren.

37For with God nothing is ever impossible and no word from God shall be without power or impossible of fulfillment. Luke 1:34-37 [Amplified Bible]



34Then said Mary unto the angel, "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"***

35And the angel answered and said unto her, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that Holy Being who shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


36And behold, thy cousin Elizabeth: she hath also conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.


37For with God nothing shall be impossible." [21st century King James Version]

*** In the version above the phrase "I know not a man", the word "know" would refer to sexual intercourse, as in: "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD." Genesis 4:1 [King James Version]

There is no doubt that in the context and language of the original that Mary was a virgin in the strictest meaning of the word.

Hope this helps, Shauny.

LS

Personally, I think Christianity is a perfect religion for losers, because all they have to do is convince themselves that they have somehow "accepted" Jesus as their savior and they get to claim moral superiority and a privileged place in some hypothetical afterlife. If that isn't pathetic, I don't know what is. To have so little going for you that you have to associate yourself with some guy who basically says, "You may be a loser here, but once you die, you'll get to go to Heaven." And then to hold up this nonsense as proof that you're a better person than the rest of us heathen sinners. Whadda load!

Originally posted by Enkidu
Personally, I think Christianity is a perfect religion for losers,

If by "loser" you mean sinner, I agree!

Originally posted by Enkidu
because all they have to do is convince themselves that they have somehow "accepted" Jesus as their savior and they get to claim moral superiority

Uh...no, I don't see where believers get to make that claim.

Originally posted by Enkidu
and a privileged place in some hypothetical afterlife.

I hope proof comes so that it's no longer a hypothetical for you.

Originally posted by Enkidu
If that isn't pathetic, I don't know what is.

I'll accept that.

Originally posted by Enkidu
To have so little going for you that you have to associate yourself with some guy who basically says, "You may be a loser here, but once you die, you'll get to go to Heaven."

w00t! Isn't that cool?

Originally posted by Enkidu
And then to hold up this nonsense as proof that you're a better person than the rest of us heathen sinners. Whadda load!

I agree it is indeed nonsense to uphold any proof that I or anyone is a better person than the rest of anyone else.

Good morning everyone, hope the sun is shining there as it is here...though hopefully with less heat. Anywho, good day to be inside looking out.

I have an update, inspired by Shauny's questions and my curiousity. This was the case of the disappearing tumor to which I'd e-mailed the person directly involved. I was going to talk face-to-face on last Thursday, but didn't have time during that Bible study to do so. At any rate, here goes the reply I'd received. I omitted by name from the greeting & last paragraph:

"Good day ******* ****,

To The Living God - YAHWEH (Jehovah) - Be All The Glory Forever and Ever!!
Praises to Our Lord & King-Christ Jesus, The Only Begotten Son and The Conquering Lion of Judah!
Thanksgiving Be The Precious Holy Spirit, "Who" searches the hearts and knows the intents of man's hearts.

My aunt began to have very intense headaches for @ 1 month (June). Then the first week of July - she began to feel very ill and was rushed to the emergency room as her right eye had closed completely - giving an appearance of a stroke. They ran tests for @ 1 week - she was given a CAT Scan, etc etc.....and they found a tumor - size a bit larger than a dime on the back of her right eye. It had attached itself to the nerves - which was the cause behind the severe headaches and the closing of her right eye. The doctors - tumor and eye specialists told us that the only way to treat this kind of tumor was to surgically remove it, by entering through her nostrils. They told us that they did not have any medication to treat this kind of tumor and in other patients that was the only procedure that helped. They said that in some patients it was cancerous and in some it was not.

They wanted to operate the next week Thursday (July 13th), but her pressure shot up and she had massive swelling to her lower torso. She was running very high fevers and so they had to try to get the pressure, swelling and fever down. I went to the hospital on the Monday and prayed (my granmother, and two of my grandaunts stood in prayer with me) that Monday, and specifically asked The Good Lord to "cover her with His Precious Blood and to wither the tumor at the root"...Other believers I am told went there to pray too. They put off the surgery for the following week to July 20th - the same day I asked for the Prayer Team to pray for her. She had the surgery that same day. The doctors searched for @ 8hours and they could not find the tumor. During surgery they kept going back to the x-ray's to try and pinpoint the exact spot where the tumor should have been and finally after many hours they found a little spec of ??? we still don't know - for they said what they found was so shriveled up and tiny, that there was not enough of it to even send it to their labs. I still don't know what they have done with whatever they found.

My aunt has improved drastically, but she is still in the hospital, as she for some unknown reason has been running high fevers. satan is a liar and we know that he has some power, not "All" power, so we are still standing on God's unwavering word, trusting The Lord to totally heal her from this temporary setback.

I don't know your friend, but this is my heartfelt prayer for him... "Dear Heavenly Father, let your Holy Spirit remove the scales from *******'s friend's eye, that his eyes may be OPENED RIGHT NOW!!! and he may begin to SEE!! and know your Son, The Lord Jesus on a Personal Level. Help his unbelief Lord Jesus I pray right NOW!! and I also pray for favor for him on his job - that an "Unexpected Increase" may come to him! That a total stranger will bless him and that God's mercy may extend to his entire household ...in JESUS's Mighty Name I ask these things!"

For you *******, I pray that Father God would promote you and that He would increase your gifts (talents) and sharpen the ones that you already have. I pray that your ears may be opened to hear as Father's Holy Spirit leads and guides you, and that you may have Boldness as a lion, having no fear of what anyone thinks - the spirit of Jeremiah! and may you never compromise HIS Word, but speak as The Lord tells you. May your life never be the same after this day...in Jesus' Mighty Name I pray.


Your Sister in Christ Jesus,

Michelle"

Originally posted by saint4God
for they said what they found was so shriveled up and tiny, that there was not enough of it to even send it to their labs. I still don't know what they have done with whatever they found.

So it didn't dissapear.. It was still there yet shriveled.. However small or shiveled it had got I'm sure they still would have wanted lab results on it.. Afterall they need to test it to see if it's cancerous.. so they can get her on radiotheorapy to make sure the cancer doesn't come back..

The problem is that your post is still pretty much like the first post you made.. There's no evidence.. It's just someone's story.. Even if the circumstances were true, they put off the surgery so long that they the body could have done that to the tumor..

Is she on radiotheorapy.. because if you have any sort of tumor, they test it to see if it's cancerous etc.. so far they've not done this.. she's not had any treatment for cancer.. and they didn't even send the tumor to get tested.. highly unorganised order of events..

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So it didn't dissapear.. It was still there yet shriveled.. However small or shiveled it had got I'm sure they still would have wanted lab results on it.. Afterall they need to test it to see if it's cancerous.. so they can get her on radiotheorapy to make sure the cancer doesn't come back..

Looks like the next logical step, yes.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
The problem is that your post is still pretty much like the first post you made.. There's no evidence.. It's just someone's story.. Even if the circumstances were true, they put off the surgery so long that they the body could have done that to the tumor..

If the body did that to the tumor, no doubt the doctors would like to find out how. Amazing how we know so much about the body down to the last cell but still can't figure out how, eh? Perhaps the answer isn't in the body. I'm with you in that it is best to check it out. I wouldn't expect the cure for cancer to come from it though.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Is she on radiotheorapy.. because if you have any sort of tumor, they test it to see if it's cancerous etc.. so far they've not done this.. she's not had any treatment for cancer.. and they didn't even send the tumor to get tested.. highly unorganised order of events..

In the section of "I still don't know what they have done with whatever they found" there is certainly the possibility that it is being tested. In fact, hard to believe they'd have a medical degree otherwise. In this could be some very important answers for cancer patients...but we don't know until they test. I'm hoping for follow-up to hear about these testings. If we hear nothing, then there's nothing to report. If there's a breakthrough discovery, no doubt it would be front-page news.

As far as current condition, she's still in the hospital with a fever. I don't know enough about radiotherapy to determine whether they'd do that if she did, but I'd think they wouldn't due to the effects of radiotherapy itself weakening the immune system, right?

The "speck" still remaining is evidence of what used to be there, so there was no accidental swap of x-rays. Also, a CAT scan was done which is a real-time result test. She's included etc. etc. denoting other tests done as well.

You're right about me not providing proof, as in, no medical doctor on ATS writing a report about it or photos of x-rays. Let's just suppose this though. If I posted pictures of x-rays/CAT scans, would that prove this account to be true? All it would prove is that there was a tumor and now there is not. This would hardly satisfy the miracle skeptics in this crowd. If I got a doctor's report on what happened, would that prove this account to be true? Like the x-rays/CAT scans, it would only show there is no tumor when he says there was one before. I doubt moreso that that this would satisfy the miracle skeptics in this crowd.

What then would be proof of a miracle? Well, God Himself would have to come down and tap a miracle-skeptic on the shoulder and say, "HEY! It did happen, now believe!" This can certainly happen, however in looking at the records, God doesn't tend to favor the bully approach in hoping people come to Him out of love. The reason why is that word right there - love. He's not a proponent of forcing people to believe from what I see. Could He? Sure. Does He? Don't seem so. So then I place this question out to you. Other than what I've stated, what would constitute proof to YOU (in the context of the reader, not picking on Shauny) that indeed He does exist and this miracle did in fact happen?

[edit on 1-8-2006 by saint4God]

You're right.. with x-rays it wouldn't garentee 100% proof.. However you need to understand I can't just take your word for it..

What it would take would be for me to experience a miracle myself, or directly know someone and witness the miracle happen to them etc..

Or maybe sometime soon for Jesus to actually fulfill a pretty important prophecy, which is to come back to earth, the rapture and all that.. and well.. only then could I ever say 'looks like I was wrong'..

But even then, I still don't agree with a lot of what God does.. Like you said 'he creates, therefore he can destroy'.. I just don't agree with that.. So if you're right.. Then i'm happy going to hell, as I don't agree with the actions of God..