The Absolute Power of Christianity!

Originally posted by Neon Haze
The Absolute Power of Christianity!

ALL Absolutes are absolute ridiculous!!!!

Read the post associated with the subject, my friend

adam and eve never broke free, they tempted into the small test that our fail safe program was put to test with. if you ask me, god was just running a scan to see if its cpu will crash itself over.

who here thinks god is big in regret after creating humanity and all its dirge?!

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
who here thinks god is big in regret after creating humanity and all its dirge?!

"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." - Genesis 6:5

Ouch. That hurts. Is there any redemption for that? What could make Him happy again?

"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." - Hebrews 12:2

What changed?

"You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." - Hebrews 12:22b-24

Many people mistakingly believe power means only the ability to oppress and suppress others. To be king and order other people around to do your bidding. To watch others suffer when you succeed.

I submit that there's an opposite power in Christianity. A power to serve, to give, forgive, and to comprehend the vastness of Christ's love:

"And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." - Ephesians 3:17b-19

Philosophies of man say knowledge is power. A believer says God's love is...

"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline." - 2 Timothy 1:7

[edit on 5-9-2006 by saint4God]

"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." - Genesis 6:5

God knew what He was creating when He created it. If God was surprised at the behavior of man...that doesn't make a whole lot of sense....as He is the creator of all things....

I thinks it's humorous to picture God looking at His creation on any given planet and have Him say: "Damn...those humans sure aren't acting the way I thought they would!" Anyone who thinks this must think that God isn't all that powerful....

Originally posted by Al Davison
antigov

so, you'd be OK with us putting up an equal size monument to Satan worship?

how about if every religion gets to put up their own monuments of the same size - that would be at least a couple of hundred but, that would be OK, right? Nobody would be forced to look at them. I guess the atheists would get to put up their monument, too. Uh, oh. I see a problem, though. It wouldn't be constitutionally correct to limit it to only religious groups since that property belongs to everybody so, we'd have to allow every man, woman, and child the right to put up a monument. But, what about people who couldn't afford to pay for their monuments? Money is not speech so, we'd need a government program to pay for the monuments for every person but, the government would not be allowed to pay for the religious monuments unless they were willing to pay for all of them.

Hmmm...it's a good plan but there are some details to work out, I guess. Still, people could maintain their right to look or not look so, it seems to be fundamentally sound.

What law prohibits the size of monuments and the placement? That there is any prohibition against putting up 'religious monuments" is only because the ones in question are involved with Christianity and the worship of God.

The 10 commandments were put on public and government buildings because the makers, or at least the ones who paid the makers, felt that the commandments being kept in the public eye was equal to ensuring the ongoing worship of God and as a reminder of His sovereignity......which obviously didn't have the desired effect. (I certainly don't worship God because I saw the commandments on a court room wall, though I'm not saying that it might not have worked for some.)

So go ahead, far as I'm concerned, put up your statue to satan...or buddha...or mohammed or whoever. and may it have the same effect on your practice of religion as the commandments being engraved on public buildings did on Christianity.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
God knew what He was creating when He created it. If God was surprised at the behavior of man...that doesn't make a whole lot of sense....as He is the creator of all things....

The passage does not say God was surprised...nor would that be accurate. As Creator he'd know what a capabilities are. It still isn't pleasing when we make the wrong decisions. In the beginning, he gave us the ability to choose.

I thinks it's humorous to picture God looking at His creation on any given planet and have Him say: "Damn...those humans sure aren't acting the way I thought they would!" Anyone who thinks this must think that God isn't all that powerful....

I'm sorry to hear if you regret having the ability to choose. You're prefer mindless drones? Even mankind can make robots. That isn't power, that's basic programming. That isn't love, that's self-praise.

[edit on 6-9-2006 by saint4God]

I'm sorry to hear if you regret having the ability to choose. You're prefer mindless drones? Even mankind can make robots. That isn't power, that's basic programming. That isn't love, that's self-praise.

You completely lost me here Saint4. What are you talking about? Is this just another tactic to distract from what is being said? When did I say I regret having the ability to choose? When did I say I prefer mindless drones?

Honestly I am clueless as to your point or what you are on about......

[edit on 6-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

For the sake of oversimplification, God gave us the ability to choose. This gift was given with the free will of following Him or not to follow Him. In the same way that in any human relationship, we have the ability to treat the other with love, or mistreat them out of our selfish desires. Such is true also with God. God gave us the ability to choose to love Him or not to love Him, providing us with the control over that election. When a loved one chooses to mistreat us out of selfish desire, that hurts. We know when we enter into a relationship that it is a possibility, though that is not the hope. The hope is they will return that love, with heart and sincerity.

The alternative to providing someone else a choice is forcing them to do what we want. Lack of choice. Lack of control. Lack of anything other than what we want them to do. Slavery. Mindless drones, robots, androids performing only by our oppressive selfish nature. God is not selfish, thus humans are not mindless drones.

[edit on 6-9-2006 by saint4God]

The alternative to providing someone else a choice is forcing them to do what we want. Lack of choice. Lack of control. Lack of anything other than what we want them to do. Slavery. Mindless drones, robots, androids performing only by our oppressive selfish nature. God is not selfish, thus humans are not mindless drones.

Okay...but what does this have to do with what I posted? I basically said the same thing.....that God made us and understands that we have free will. So why did you feel the need to say basically the same thing in different language?

I would understand if you were trying to make a point...but you basically just restated what I said. So.....I assume you agree with me. That's cool!!

At judgement, God will ask Jesus if he taught that his image should be worshipped by mankind, the image of him dying on the cross, or the cross as an abbreviation of this, and if he taught to put himself on the level of the One God in saying that he was God in the flesh.

He would probably reply something like this in two yellow garments with his hair dripping but the water never actually hits his shoulders or the floor (The Qu 'ran's depiction of Jesus, or the prophet Isa *no im not a muslim, shouldnt have to say this*) the following statement. "No I did not teach any of this Idolatry my God, you are above me and my creator, you are the most high. I said what you sent me to say, and they killed me. But, clever you, knowing this ahead of time allowed it to happen so that my teachings would grow. Only to become corrupt by the very same ones that crucified me, the Romans (The Catholic Church), taking over my teachings and augmenting them, and introducing Idolatry and other terrible things. No, I most certainly did not teach them to do these acts in my name." (Look in the bible dont be mad at me)

Then, the judgement for the people who Idolized Jesus might not be that great, I'd imagine .. in this whole hypothetical scenario.

Just my 2 cents..


[edit on 6-9-2006 by runetang]

I do wear a cross so that others may ask or discuss. If everyone was a believer, there would be no reason for me to do so.

Hey runetang, I appreciate your post above expressing concern that people may become obsessed with objects instead of Christ, that they worship two wooden poles instead of the God he told us to worship. Rest assured many in the Church now read the Bible (as opposed to the dark ages) and understand what Christ says. Among them are:

Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone."

Luke 18:19
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone."

John (from chapter 1, relevant portions)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth....For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."

John 14:6
"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Matthew 16:24
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Romans 8:34
"Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us."

If the Quran says differently, it is not speaking of the same God and Jesus.

[edit on 7-9-2006 by saint4God]

Quoting from the bible is like quoting L. Ron Hubbard on Scientology..

Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.

Xenu the alien ruler Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.

It's meaningless, as are Bible quotes. If you want to argue that Bible quotes are meaningfull, then so be it, however, that would therefore make the quote from Ron Hubbard 'meaningfull'. Then again, I fail to see how Xenu the alien ruler could be 'meaningfull'.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Quoting from the bible is like quoting L. Ron Hubbard on Scientology..

Only in the regard that they're both being quoted.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
It's meaningless, as are Bible quotes.

Bible quotes may be meaningless to you but that does not make them meaningless.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
If you want to argue that Bible quotes are meaningfull, then so be it,

Sure, we can do that. Though, I doubt doing so would change your opinion.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
however, that would therefore make the quote from Ron Hubbard 'meaningfull'.

Test everything. One difference is (and there are many) when you quote Ron Hubbard, you're quoting Ron Hubbard. The Bible quotes God.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Then again, I fail to see how Xenu the alien ruler could be 'meaningfull'.

Agreed.

[edit on 7-9-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Bible quotes may be meaningless to you but that does not make them meaningless.

The Bible quotes God.

Exactly my point. What's the point in quoting 'God/The Bible' if the people reading the quotes aren't all Christian. Hence, the 'meaningless' part.

I'm not saying never quote anything, quotes can be useful to 'backup' a statement perhaps. However, if you use a Bible quote to backup something you say, it adds no authority or proof to the statement you made, as to some The Bible is not the devine word of God.

I'm just unsure why you quote from the book of 'Matthew' or 'Luke' like it's 100% authoritive and that's the final say and word in the matter.

This in essence is the absolutly power of Christianity, because people draw their conclusions from The Bible, and if this conclusion is that The Bible is the devine inspired word of God then somehow The Bible becomes authoritive in certain matters. Hence, 'Jesus said love thy neighbour.. therefore, you must love your neighbour'. Well Jesus never saw the program 'Neighbours From Hell', where the next door neighbour has a 20ft tree blocking out sunlight in your garden. Jesus would have been round there like a whippet after a stuffed bunny.

Just seems that when you quote the bible saint, that you quote it like that's the final word, the final say, and that you cannot possibly argue with it, as it is from 'The Bible'..

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Exactly my point. What's the point in quoting 'God/The Bible' if the people reading the quotes aren't all Christian. Hence, the 'meaningless' part.

I was addressing runetang, who was referring to God (capital G) and Jesus, who are contained therein. As for others, certainly it's up to them to decide whether it is meaningful or not.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I'm just unsure why you quote from the book of 'Matthew' or 'Luke' like it's 100% authoritive and that's the final say and word in the matter.

These are best when talking about Jesus since Jesus is quoted in them.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
This in essence is the absolutly power of Christianity,

I believe you've illustrated both JungleJake's and my point exactly. The power is not from Christianity, but from God. There's power in Christ, we are merely believers thereof.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Jesus would have been round there like a whippet after a stuffed bunny.

Are you suggesting he would do something other than what he says? Not sure what your meaning is here.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Just seems that when you quote the bible saint, that you quote it like that's the final word, the final say, and that you cannot possibly argue with it, as it is from 'The Bible'..

Surely a person can "argue with it" as demonstrated here, but would agree that it is the the final word.

If the Quran says differently, it is not speaking of the same God and Jesus.

Same God? There is only one God. I love how Christians believe they have a different God than everyone else...thus, why I believe Christians to be Pagans...because they believe in more than one God.

There is only one God. Different religions don't have different Gods. They have different stories about the same God. Again...there is only one God.

Why are you Christians arrogant to the point of even thinking your God is not the same God as everyone else?

[edit on 7-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
adam and eve never broke free, they tempted into the small test that our fail safe program was put to test with. if you ask me,

who here thinks god is big in regret after creating humanity and all its dirge?!

what you forget is that the serpent/draco is a manifestation of the dark side and it is the bigger disappointment. I think that god can regain his confidence in humans if they can learn to break free and return to the source.

That will not be easy as the struggle is not physical but mental and their are so many agents of deception out there.

Originally posted by saint4God
These are best when talking about Jesus since Jesus is quoted in them.

Sort of again my point as it's merely an assumption that these are actually Jesus' words, as there is no proof or evidence to suggest he actually said 'Love thy neighbour' other than what is quoted in The Bible.

Usually the point of a quote is to quote something factual and something that will add authority to a statement you've made. However, The Bible doesn't have authority other than in the eyes of the people who think every edited and changed word is somehow devinely inspired by God.

Are you suggesting he would do something other than what he says? Not sure what your meaning is here.

It's just the 'do' or 'think' something before you've heard the story. For example 'Love thy neighbour, fullstop'. Things is, you might have a neighbour that came round while you were at work, killed your mother in law, raped your wife and daughter, then killed them, and hung your son up by a noose from the dining room doorway. So it's just a hypothetical, but I don't think any person who does that deserves love, especially not from the victims.

So saying you should love your neighbour, it's just a pretty dumb statement to make. As there are certain circumstances where it'd be impossible to do so. I remember a story in the news about a woman who was a part of the church, and who's daughter died in the 7/7 bombings, and she couldn't forgive the bombers, and so she quit her position at the church. I think The Bible sometimes doesn't take in to account these sort of factors, where it may be almost impossible to forgive someone, or to love your neighbour.

Another example would be say a girl of 13 who gets raped, gets pregnant, and according to The Bible and the glorious devine word of God, she HAS to have that baby. Saint, before you were talking about God giving us choice. Where is the choice if The Bible tells you, you can't get an abortion, or love your neighbour, or you have to forgive people, and if you don't do those, then you're not fit to be a Christian. Where's the choice? That girl should have the choice to have an abortion, and not be condemned to hell or judged by Christians who have never experienced what she had to experience.

The Bible just doesn't seem to take in to account all of that. It's merely 'do this' or 'do that', otherwise what are you doing coming to church, gtfo and become an atheist already if you don't want to be told what to do.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Sort of again my point as it's merely an assumption that these are actually Jesus' words, as there is no proof or evidence to suggest he actually said 'Love thy neighbour' other than what is quoted in The Bible.

"We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. " - 2 Peter 1:16-18

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Usually the point of a quote is to quote something factual and something that will add authority to a statement you've made. However, The Bible doesn't have authority other than in the eyes of the people who think every edited and changed word is somehow devinely inspired by God.

See above.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
It's just the 'do' or 'think' something before you've heard the story. For example 'Love thy neighbour, fullstop'. Things is, you might have a neighbour that came round while you were at work, killed your mother in law, raped your wife and daughter, then killed them, and hung your son up by a noose from the dining room doorway. So it's just a hypothetical, but I don't think any person who does that deserves love, especially not from the victims.

That's the difference between a believer and a non-believer.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?" - Matthew 5:43-47

It takes trust in order to do this. It is hard. But, it works and I can testify to that.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So saying you should love your neighbour, it's just a pretty dumb statement to make.

Not sure why you're telling me that. It isn't my statement.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
As there are certain circumstances where it'd be impossible to do so.

Difficult perhaps, not impossible.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I remember a story in the news about a woman who was a part of the church, and who's daughter died in the 7/7 bombings, and she couldn't forgive the bombers, and so she quit her position at the church. I think The Bible sometimes doesn't take in to account these sort of factors, where it may be almost impossible to forgive someone, or to love your neighbour.

If she could not forgive, it is best that she quit the church, else be accused of hypocrisy.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Another example would be say a girl of 13 who gets raped, gets pregnant, and according to The Bible and the glorious devine word of God, she HAS to have that baby. Saint, before you were talking about God giving us choice. Where is the choice if The Bible tells you, you can't get an abortion,

"You shall not murder." - Exodus 20:13

"You shall not murder" - Deuteronomy 5:17

Originally posted by shaunybaby
or love your neighbour,

" 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD." - Leviticus 19:18


"And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" - Matthew 22:39

Originally posted by shaunybaby
or you have to forgive people,

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." - Luke 6:37

There are 116 passages that talks about forgiveness.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
and if you don't do those, then you're not fit to be a Christian.

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." - Matthew 16:24

"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." - John 8:12

"Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me." - John 12:26
Where's the choice? That girl should have the choice to have an abortion, and not be condemned to hell or judged by Christians who have never experienced what she had to experience.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
The Bible just doesn't seem to take in to account all of that.

Surely it does, and much more.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
It's merely 'do this' or 'do that', otherwise what are you doing coming to church,

"Do this" or "do that" is Old Testament law. The New Testament goes further on how to think, not just what to think.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
gtfo and become an atheist already if you don't want to be told what to do.

Are you trying to convert me or rally others? Not sure I understand the point of this statement.

[edit on 8-9-2006 by saint4God]