The Absolute Power of Christianity!

I cant help but wonder if the nick, "RANT" has anything to do with style.

Hey RANT, You might want to U2U that post to Thomas Crowne before he creates any more heated debates just like this one, that you will have to put out. He is convinced that America was founded as a Christian Nation and I believe this should be adressed. A SuperMod Should not be spreading disinfo like this on this board.

in comparison to God's kingdom. Will America save you? Can America guarentee you of everlasting life and happiness? The United States of America is a kingdom like any other, one that rises and falls with time even though it is probably one of the most beneficial in history (in my opinion) so far so kudos for that. I never understood the need for American Christians to wave a flag around with stars and stripes when a person knows in another 30-60 years it's just going to be a blink of memory. American Idol....and no I'm not talking about a tv show with horrid performers who wish they could write and perform original works. Christians, if you need to wave a flag, please have it look something like this:


[edit on 19-7-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Christians, if you need to wave a flag, please have it look something like this:

Yeah, that worked for Constantine. Nothing scares the hell out of your victims more than invading armies bearing the mark of a Roman execution.

Really. You people. :shk:

Originally posted by RANT
Yeah, that worked for Constantine. Nothing scares the hell out of your victims more than invading armies bearing the mark of a Roman execution.

Really. You people. :shk:

No problem, have one that says "Jesus" or pictures an empty tomb then .



Sorry you have bad memories of the invading armies of Rome. I know a counselor who could help you with that. Also, who did Rome execute that Christians now bear this mark? The symbol tells the story and as far as I can tell from this thread, we're all fond of history.


[edit on 19-7-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Can America guarentee you of everlasting life and happiness?

Yes it can. But it would be a lie. However, had this promise been made since your childhood, and reinforced in the public schools and by everyone around you, you would believe it nonetheless.

Originally posted by saint4God
I never understood the need for American Christians to wave a flag around with stars and stripes when a person knows in another 30-60 years it's just going to be a blink of memory.

They have faith in god and country, not just god. That's the historical norm.

Why do you think people get so heated about politics? It's because their positions are chosen based on the way the want things to be rather than the way things are. For the most part, they will look for whatever evidence supports thier preconceptions and reject as "liberal bias" or "neocon lies" or similar trivializing phrases, anything that doesn't support their position arrived at through faith.

I agree with you that the pledge is a form of idolatry as you implied.

Originally posted by spamandham
Yes it can. But it would be a lie. However, had this promise been made since your childhood, and reinforced in the public schools and by everyone around you, you would believe it nonetheless.

Then it's a good thing this was not the case for me.

Originally posted by saint4God
They have faith in god and country, not just god. That's the historical norm.

Why do you think people get so heated about politics? It's because their positions are chosen based on the way the want things to be rather than the way things are. For the most part, they will look for whatever evidence supports thier preconceptions and reject as "liberal bias" or "neocon lies" or similar trivializing phrases, anything that doesn't support their position arrived at through faith.

I agree with you that the pledge is a form of idolatry as you implied.

Thanks for both the insight and understanding. I did a search on yahoo images for "God flag" to see what would pop up. It looked like 99% were U.S. flags. I guess some people have a weird concept of who God is. *scribbles out the word 'America' and has it read: God bless us all* Isn't this what "love your enemies" is all about? (Matthew 5:43). That is the absolute power of Christianity.



[edit on 19-7-2005 by saint4God]

If I called myself Mary would that make me a girl? (LOL no!) Not all these "Christians" are really doing God's work... Christianity is a way of life of love, of compassion, and not a political affiliation. A Christians "mission" is to spread the word and I'd think that by now everyone knows what the word is. What does that tell you?
The time is short.
Do you think God cares if his commandments are displayed? He only cares if they are obeyed. The issue with most Christians is that to remove the tablets is to deny Him. Its a small thing, a mere gesture of faith that seems to threaten non-believers and other religions alike.

Whoever said it's "hell on Earth" wasn't far off the mark. It shames the devout followers of Christianity to even have to admit that there are the likes of some these people in existence, however, it is not for us to judge... we leave that to God and that my friends is FAITH.

What we as Christians try to do is show acceptance (through love and compassion) to all whether they believe or not, that is the teachings of Christ. Some do tend to get a little over zealous in their attempts at converting non-believers and probably seem like a threat. Truth be known, a believer is concerned about his own soul and merely tries to share the glory of heaven with all. If that is threatening to some, perhaps they need to feel that there is something at stake after all?

Personally, I am ready. my wife is ready... the organizations we are involved in, the church, the Christian Motorcycle Association and most recently BACA which I can't commend enough for all that they do to protect the children, we all have our hearts in the right place.

Islam is convinced that we (Americans) are a bunch of heathens... a lot are proving them right. Go ahead, take the commandments, it matters little to me or to my God, I do not feel threatened by your lack of FAITH.

If you feel that is a threat...well, you have nothing to fear from a Christian... it's God you should fear... and he asked for so little, its up to you to explain your denial of him, I don't worry about his Grace.

GBY all for trying though. I'm sure your efforts didn't go unnoticed. ... just like I'm sure your words are being heard where they matter the most.

I must also apologize since I merely "skimmed" the thread due to time constraint... but really, its the same ol' same ol' I've heard/read elswhere around the net. ... and I didn't join this group to discuss something as personal as your faith or lack thereof.
Unfortunately, when I read "conspiracy and Christianity in the topic I was compelled to put my two cents in. (I'm about out of change )
No need to reply since I didn't want to provoke anything more than thought.
*cha-ching*

Dang, keybored, well said and you just reminded me what this thread started as

I agree in some ways with your sentament, however, this is a conspiracy site, and I, as much as I don't want to admit it, am a little paranoid.

There is an attack against Christianity taking place in this country, and I understand that displays of the Ten Commandments don't make us better or worse Christians. It's mearly a symbol.

Now, if I may be able to seemingly sidetrack for a moment, the Supreme Court just decided that there is no such thing as private property in the US anymore. Now, if a city thinks it can get more revenue, it can close a small mom and pop shop and replace it with a Wal-Mart.

Now, back on task, there is an attack of all that is Christian in this country. People don't want to turn a blind eye to those they see as ignorant sheeple (Christians), they want to eradicate it. The ACLU has been gunning for public displays of faith on state land. The Supreme Court just made all land state land, as long as the state can prove it would increase tax revenue by taking it and replacing it with something else. What's the connection? Churches don't pay taxes. Anything you could put on a tract of land would increase revenue.

There was a game that came out a long while ago called SimCity. Churches would develop on residential areas. These residential areas didn't increase your funds at all, so many people would bulldoze them in the hopes that more money would be made. It would have been an effective strategy in the game if the programmers hadn't set something up to create a fairly high random chance of an earthquake if you did. Why would we expect city planners and governments, especially with this seeming vendetta against the Church, to behave in a different way?

So the paranoia comes in thinking that this systematic removal of the Ten Commandments is only the beginning. If we can stop it before it really takes off, we'll never know where it could have gone. If we wait and see where it goes, it could get to the point where nothing can be done.

In Japan in the 80s, they had a "free" market. You could buy an American car instead of a Japanese one. However, it was the most mysterious thing, everyone who got American cars got audited. Apply that possibility here. Your church is being bulldozed by the state to make more money. Now, you speak up about this, and try to prevent it from happenning. The response could get to be, mysteriously, that a new strip mall is going up in your nieghborhood, right where your house is.

It's not bad yet, but it really could be in the near future if we sit back and take it.

I whole-heartedly agree with your post. If nothing is done we are the only ones to blame. (all of us) Having said that, I anxiously await the second coming and realize the futility of trying to convince the populace that would deny that something happened 2005 years ago that was so profound that we started counting the days.
The time is so short, I suppose the end all will be when we start counting this year X of the war(s). (I guess the changing of the calendar hadn't occurred to them yet... it will, it is after all the year of our Lord)

If anything, this would fulfill the end time prophecies that state quite clearly that evil will not be changed and those who don't believe by now never will... and that Christians will be persecuted. Nothing that takes place in these times would surprise me.
I would say a prayer for the lost souls yet I don't think that would fit the "political correctness" of America so I will make it a silent prayer... as usual.
I grieve for mankind. I'd ask for mercy for my fellow man yet I also know the Lord in his infinite wisdom must be about out of patience.

Cya on the other side
"Time is precious, but TRUTH is more precious than time!"
P.S.
Perhaps the tone of my post would be more apt in a thread entitled the absolute hour of Christianity?

To the non-believers here I do have one thing to say... I'm sorry I couldn't find the right words to convince you.

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by spamandham
If Washington was a deeply religious man who felt religion played an important role in politics, you would expect he would have made reference to god in some of his annual addresses to Congress. But he didn't.

Agreed. But his personal beliefs notwithstanding (meaning even if he did), the fact is as outgoing President he approved the Treaty of Tripoli, which was ratifed by Congress, signed into law by President Adams, printed in the national newspapers, and nobody even raised an eyebrow to the foundational language "[As] the government of the United States of America is not in any way founded on the Christian religion..."

Period. End game. No more discussion on that point. It's over. Unless a law has been ratified since saying the opposite (which it has not), the Dominionists claiming this nation for Christ don't have a pot to piss in.

The fact is there are two distictive historical opinions that literally debunk every claim of the Dominionists (pertaining to America's founding and legal code) in one fell swoop no matter what additional arguments they spin.

"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law. . . This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it." --Thomas Jefferson (on the history of the US legal foundation in common law) February 10, 1814

"[As] the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..." begins the United States Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, as endorsed by then outgoing President George Washington, voted into US law by the Senate on June 7, 1797, and ratified by the signature of new President John Adams on 10 June, 1797. All during this multi-review process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern.

So here we have a clear admission by the United States that our government did not found itself upon Christianity and clarification that our legal code has no basis in same.

All the dominionists can really claim is they don't care. Jefferson was a heathen. Washington, Adams and the 1797 Senate were all liars. And they just want what they want like they always do. Subjugation of the masses with a new Dark Ages. Nothing has changed since the Roman Empire. The Roman God Jesus (aka King of the Jews) is just a tool of a new corrupting force of world conquest. Nothing more. Yes, that's "the Absolute Power of Christianity!" right there. Dominion. Control. Revision. Censorship.

No sir. I'm free. I'm an American. And I know better. Keep your bloody Roman God of conquest off me. Thank you.

[edit on 18-7-2005 by RANT]

Pity...you should have researched the treaty a little bit more. Keep reading:

Does the 1796-97 Treaty with Tripoli Matter to Church/State Separation?

Speech given to the Humanists of Georgia on June 22, 1997 and at the 1997 Lake Hypatia Independance Day Celebration.
By Ed Buckner, Ph.D.

(What follows is just an exerpt from his speech. if you want me to post the whole thing, I'll do that.)

"The pirates of the Barbary coast in general and of Tripoli (in what is now called Libya) in particular were destroying U.S. shipping and holding as prisoners U.S. seamen in the 1790s. It was a serious problem and a series of negotiators were sent to try to put together an agreement to improve it.

On 4 November 1796, near the end of George Washington's second term, a treaty with the "Bey and People of Tripoli" was signed, promising cash and other considerations to Tripoli in exchange for peace. Leading the negotiations for the U.S. at that point was Joel Barlow, a diplomat and poet (he wanted very much to be remembered as America's epic poet). Barlow was a friend of Thomas Jefferson and of Thomas Paine (Paine hurriedly entrusted the manuscript of the first part of the Age of Reason to Barlow when Paine was suddenly arrested by the radicals of the French revolution).

Barlow was very likely by 1796 a deist, though he had served earlier as a military chaplain. There is considerable dispute about whether the Arabic version of the treaty read and signed by the representatives of Tripoli even had the famous words included (they are not present, as was discovered in about 1930, in the surviving Arabic version). No one knows why. The treaty remained in effect for only four years, replaced, after more war with Tripoli, with another treaty that does not have the famous words included. One or two later treaties even allude to the Trinity. *If* the major claim of separationists regarding the treaty were a legal one, these facts might be fatal. But no one claims that the treaty was the basis for our government being non-Christian--it is the godless Constitution, which calls on no higher power than "We the People," that is the necessary and sufficient legal basis. What the treaty does is to powerfully reaffirm what the Constitution and First Amendment intended. (The references in one or two later treaties to things such as the Trinity occurred in treaties with Great Britain and Russia, both officially Christian nations at the time; no declarations that the U.S. is a Christian nation were included.)"

END

Now, personally, I think this speech throws a fair amount of ammo to BOTH sides of the argument. Making the U.S. "officially" any religion smacks a lot of "government religion", and the LAST thing we need is a "Church Of The United States."

However, one thing seems very certain. The "Humanists" (Nowadays called Secularists) are FAR more scared of our country being Christian than they are of it being religious. Afterall...they want THEMSELVES to be the "God" of the United States.

Originally posted by toolmaker

Monkeyboy is dead on.

Christianity is evolving into a Political force. Faith in God is being manipulated into votes at the polling booth, and people are confusing salvation and God with political power and conservatism. they have become the Sheep, ready for shearing.

Ironic, that the mad rush toward salvation may end up damning them in the end.

I don't think Chrisitianity was ever meant to be an evolving force in current politics let alone at the polling booth. Somewhere along the the line between giving the message from God to the people, the middlemen such as Jerry Falwell and others got in the way and decided to make a few bucks off the deal. I loath Falwell here in S.W. va. because it is very evident to me that if he can make a dollar or $25mil between here and Heaven he will. Religon was not meant to make some people rich. The money was to make sure the word got passed on to those whom have not heard it yet. In todays mentality, the Good Word has taken a stance in the political areana where it was never meant to go. But let me back up a bit. The main reason I can't stand Falwell is I can see right through him. Anyone with a shread of commonsense can see it also. He is biliking the whole "You're going to hell if you don't give" to the max and many people are actually brainwashed by this. I am a Bapitist and have been since'97 and any preacher who would rather want your so called"donation" than preach the Word of God is just a theif in my book. If there are any readers here that want to see the absloute power of God it is in the Bible.

Originally posted by junglejake
...
Now, if I may be able to seemingly sidetrack for a moment, the Supreme Court just decided that there is no such thing as private property in the US anymore. Now, if a city thinks it can get more revenue, it can close a small mom and pop shop and replace it with a Wal-Mart.
...
Churches don't pay taxes. Anything you could put on a tract of land would increase revenue.
...
So the paranoia comes in thinking that this systematic removal of the Ten Commandments is only the beginning.

Your fears are not unfounded, but your response doesn't make sense. Pushing this whole 10 Commandments thing is not going to turn the tide of the decline of Christianity within the US, but it does mobilize the opposition as a blow back.

The right response would be to fight the eminent domain decision. The ever increasing power of the state poses a threat to everyone, not just the religious. You can leverage off that to protect against enchroachments on freedom of religion.

Originally posted by junglejake
So the paranoia comes in thinking that this systematic removal of the Ten Commandments is only the beginning. If we can stop it before it really takes off, we'll never know where it could have gone. If we wait and see where it goes, it could get to the point where nothing can be done.

Considering almost all the public space idolatry in this country was systematically put there in very recent times (50's, 60's and 70s) as I know I've shown you and others in great detail in various threads, what's the big deal? You act like George Washington put it there. No. Activists like Roy Moore did. And also liberal philanthropic organizations scared the commies would get us if we didn't put up relgious statues in front of all the courthouses. The government didn't put them up in a single case I know of. Some citizen or group came along and made a "donation" several of which have since been contested by other citizens or groups and found to be in violation. Wha. No really. Wha. That's not an attack on anything but recent revisionist history trying to God up public space, imposing a message of government approved "I am the Lord Thy God" and "Take no other God before Me" messages. That's wrong. It may well be an "attack" on your efforts to shove it in my face on public grounds, but so? Good. Christians aren't special. The government should not be in the business of reenacting Roman executions, displaying Vishnu or any other Diety or authoritarian messages as if an act of contrition and official deference to a preferred religion.

Originally posted by Toelint
Pity...you should have researched the treaty a little bit more. Keep reading:

Pity. You think I give a damn what Ed Buckner, Ph.D. says.

I can read. That sentence is plain as day. It was ratified into law and printed in at least the Philadelphia Gazette (if not more papers) for all to see. And it says it all. This is not a Christian nation. I'm not making a seperation argument. I'm answering dullard revisionists that think this was founded as a Christian nation.

Are you claiming it was? Can you show me a law that's ever been ratified that says otherwise? I know the treaty is no longer in effect or on the books now. Not the point. It was. And the "activists" that agreed to it include not only most all the original elected representatives but Washington and Adams.

Is it your contention that it just slipped by everybody? It never existed? That this is indeed a Christian nation, as one might call Saudi Arabia an Islamic nation? If so, save your pity.

That should disturb even Christians. To think that lands are divided up by the Gods that govern them. Sure. In backwards authoritarian dicatorships. Hello. This is America. Why do I bother? :shk:

[edit on 20-7-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by RANT
That should disturb even Christians. To think that lands are divided up by the Gods that govern them. Sure. In backwards authoritarian dicatorships. Hello. This is America.

I think the worry here goes back to the Old Testament. There, nations were defined by who or what they believed else they were assimilated. Perhaps there are people who fear the U.S. becoming a Godless nation, thus subjected to the royal smacking up OT-style. Well, Jesus says "my kingdom is not of this earth" and we as Christians should work to comprehend that what this means is draw your silly little lines all over the map all you want, it don't mean jack to God. Hence the references to the "kingdom of heaven" and "God's kingdom". It ain't here folks, sorry to disappoint you. So, wherever you are, you are part of God's kingdom or you are not. Welcome to the world of 2 nations.

Why do I bother? :shk:

I thought it was interesting what you had to say about the monuments being built in the 50's - 70's. I don't know much about it so it's a learning experience. If you're here to help people, or even educate, I think that's reason enough. If not, then I'd ask the same question myself.



[edit on 20-7-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Why do I bother? :shk:

I thought it was interesting what you had to say about the monuments being built in the 60's - 80's. I don't know much about it so it's a learning experience. If you're here to help people, or even educate, I think that's reason enough. If not, then I'd ask the same question myself.

That made my day. Thank you. It's rare that people (esecially people you may be debating with) will acknowledge something new that may not fit what they've been taught to believe. Not saying you. Just in general. New things are good.

Originally posted by Toelint
However, one thing seems very certain. The "Humanists" (Nowadays called Secularists) are FAR more scared of our country being Christian than they are of it being religious. Afterall...they want THEMSELVES to be the "God" of the United States.

The secularists want nothing more than for religion to stay out of the public domain. That means no promotion of religion by the state, no state funds used for religious purposes, no religious indoctrination in the public schools, no legislation based on imposing religious morals that have no legitimate secular merit, etc.

The harder you guys push to insert religion into the public domain, the harder people like me will work not only against those efforts, but to deconvert you and your children so that the problem will go away permanently.

Your religion is under attack because for some reason you guys don't think it can stand unless the force of the state is involved.

By the way, Christianity is the target of secularists in the US because it is the dominant religion that has historically overstepped the bounds of what is private and what is public, and continues to do so at every opportunity.

Although, New Age stuff is now attempting the same thing and needs to be fought as well. But hey! You guys are willing to take them on.

[edit on 20-7-2005 by spamandham]

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Christianity does not believe in the God responsible for our creation, he has been replaced by another, just as all previous Gods were ousted in the 6,000 year old evolution. And even this new god, is in danger of being replaced by his mother.

You must be talking about another "Christianity." I certainly believe in the God responsible for our creation. Who do you think He was replaced by, anyway.?..and the mother thing has nothing to do with Protestant Christianity; you're thinking of Catholicsm, I'm non-denominational.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
Hey RANT, You might want to U2U that post to Thomas Crowne before he creates any more heated debates just like this one, that you will have to put out. He is convinced that America was founded as a Christian Nation and I believe this should be adressed. A SuperMod Should not be spreading disinfo like this on this board.

Yeah, Charlie, we sure don't want people having the freedom to speak what they believe; especially on a board that epitomizes what free speech is all about. Maybe you should send a U2U to Simon.