Corona Virus Updates Part 2

a reply to: weirdguy

The closest match the India team could find to compare 2019-nCoV was SARS-CoV(GZ02). It was from here that the 4 insertions where found. The Michigan team also done a sequence alignment with SARS-CoV (P59594) in their study.

We noted that these fragments are not bona fide “insertions”; in fact, at least three out of all four fragments are also shared with Bat Coronavirus RaTG13 spike glycoprotein (NCBI accession: QHR63300.1)

While Bat Coronavirus RaTG13 appears to match some of these insertion regions, how does it compare with the rest of the sequence alignment with 2019-nCoV as a possible source? Any further details on Bat Coronavirus RaTG13 as a suspect? Natural or man made, Bat CoV is a strong source for this infection.

Since the structure of the spike protein in 2019-nCoV is not yet available...

As a preliminary report on the matter I understand they are working with the best they have got. This area of 2019-nCoV is under intense scrutiny with the current associations made with HIV. It is the first insertion point that defines part of the spike protein.

As shown in Figure 2, all four insertions are located outside the Receptor Binding Domain (RBD) of spike, in contrast to the original conclusion made by Pradhan et al. which stated that the insertions are located on the interface with ACE2.

This is outside my expertise to comment, I am keenly interested to see how it plays out in the scientific community.

In contrast to the previous claim that the four insertions are unique to 2019-nCoV and HIV-1, all four insertion fragments can be found in other viruses. In fact, an HIV-1 protein is among the top BLAST hits for only one of the four insertion fragments, while three of the four insertion fragments are found in bat coronavirus RaTG13

So the Michigan team supports the India team that there is HIV RNA at the first insertion point. They do introduce other possibilities for how it got there.

n particular, the first 6 residues in the IS4 fragment “QTQTNSPRRA” from 2019-nCoV are identical to the bat CoV, while the last 4 residues, which were absent in the bat coronavirus or SARS-CoV, have at least 50% identity to MERS-CoV and HCoV-HKU1.

The first insertion point is the focus of HIV-1. What is going on in the other insertion points, I don't know. Rumors are abound at this time, checking if Ebola fits may help relive some questions. Some similarities with MERS-CoV is not surprising. More peer review is required.

The four insertions highlighted by Pradhan et al. in the spike protein are not unique to 2019-nCoV and HIV-1. In fact, they are shared with many other viruses including the bat coronavirus. Yes, the similarities in the sequence-based alignments built on these very short fragments are statistically insignificant, as assessed by the BLAST E-values.

If the virus has been bioengineered then it is reasonable to suspect that these insertions are shared with other virus. How this virus evolved is whats important at this time.

Link to Michigan Pdf Paper
Link to India Pdf Paper

originally posted by: AngelsDecay
Are you aware that maybe some Chinese fellows from Wuhan are reading your words...?
Sorry to disagree but I think that's not a very polite thing to write here... My humble 2 cents... My Gf she's Chinese and really got offended... Even if you think that, I think that's not nice at all to write it here... So, the outside world is thinking that my government tomorrow will gonna kill us all?

While I understand what you are saying, the reality is, why would she be offended at a comment based in reality about the fact that the CCP is a communist/fascist regime that wouldn't think twice about doing just that?

What she should be offended by is the way the CCP is covering up what is really going on there.

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
We all probably need a little sensitivity-training.

Nope, I'm totally done - forever - with the PC bull#. ?If you don't like what I say, then you are free to disregard it, or cry me a river.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

Thanks for that, so just just 2 deaths outside of China.

And both are native Chinese who recently left China.

Kind of changes the meaning of these fear-mongering stats we're being barraged with.

ZERO deaths, or apparently even serious illnesses, of any non-native Chinese, outside China.

Oh - and another meaningful stat would be tracking separately, those who were actually infected outside China.

a reply to: MissBeck

No worries, and yes Apple News is free. I have it on my iPhone & iPad which provided it after the update before last, iOS 12 I think. Here’s what it looks like Apple News
You don’t need News+ which is the subscription unless you want paid access. You can customise all your news sources which is pretty cool.

originally posted by: FredT
While the US can no longer claim the moral high ground,

We lost the right to claim the moral high ground many decades ago.

you are talking about a ChiCom government that massacred its citizens in Tienanmen and is actively killing its citizens in Hong Kong so to quell a outbreak that could threaten its grip on power? I would not be shocked in the least.

Exactly. The CCP is one of many governments that is simply incompatible with a free and open society - and I include certain aspects of our own government in that statement.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: slatesteam

Viruses infect specific types of cells. For this infect the epithelials of your lung tissue then your gastrointestinal tract and them somehow hit your bone marrow and then migrate to your testicles would involve it infecting several very, very different types of cells from very different body systems. Just not possible for one virus to do.

Are you certain about that wrt an engineered bio-weapon?

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
Well, without opening-the-great-math-debate, keep this in mind:
1) "Official" numbers - and conspiracy-theory is that China is under-reporting theirs (maybe other countries too).

Yes, but this massive under-reporting is only applicable to the numbers inside China.

2) Many people may have it with no symptoms or diagnosis or testing yet.
3) Many countries are not reporting at all (may also not be testing at all).

I'd add...

4. No deaths or even serious complications reported for any non-native Chinese cases where transmission occurred outside China.

That last stat is the only meaningful one wrt to evaluating this event as the possibility of a world wide pandemic.

a reply to: firesnake

Found it on my iphone. I'd put it in a folder named 'iphone crap' which I always do when I get a new device. Make a folder for all the apps I'm not going to use. Well, this time I was wrong. I'd done that because I don't watch mainstream news as I get ALL my news updates from ATS, and the BBC app for a glance over current events.

Thanks again.

originally posted by: slatesteam
a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator
F the CCP! How’s that for sensitivity training?

Exactly.

And to any native Chinese who may be offended by that, please understand.

We, in saying this, in no way, shape or form even remotely are equating the CCP with the chinese people.

These negative remarks are only aimed at your Communist government, that couldn't care less about you, the average Chinese citizen. They only care about maintaining their stranglehold/power.

Hello everyone,

I'm returning now to ATS after a decade long break from the platform and all it took was an earth shattering corona virus shaking the entire Chinese community to the bone and perhaps even threatening the world at large.

I tuned in a bit late to this discussion, but I've read about 75% of the 2nd thread. I've been very close to this whole ordeal and I've been following it very closely from various sources - my memory gets a bit fuzzy in terms of what my sources are of the respective tidbits of information that I have obtained so please excuse if I'm repeating things that have already been posted.

I'm an expat and China has been my country of residence for the last 9 years. I'm married to a Chinese woman and we have 2 children as well (6&10). I speak decent Chinese, I have many Chinese friends and I belong to many wechat groups where people are constantly discussing the evolving situation. So, I might have access to some information that many others do not. I'll share as much as I can, but first I want to tell the ATS community about my personal situation.
If you are short on time, feel free to skip ahead to "The situation in China".

Personal situation
I left China (Chengdu) with my family on Chinese New Years day. The Chinese people at large did not see this coming, no idea it would get as bad as it did (and perhaps getting worse) and it took me only 3 days of incessant nagging to convince my wife to leave. We flew to Thailand on the 25th of January to put some distance between us and the virus.

Chinese have always had limited spontaneous traveling options. Not a strong passport to begin with, but shortly after our arrival more and more countries started to impose even more restrictions on where we could go. Chinese can receive a 15 days visa on arrival at Bangkok airports and they have the option to extend an extra week. So 3 weeks maximum.
We spent a few days at the beach while trying to figure out our next move and while we were figuring things out, country after country jumped on the bandwagon of restricting Chinese access.
Our first and second choice (Indonesia and Vietnam) suspended all Chinese visas. Other countries we were considering that also closed was India, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Bangladesh (close friends there) so our only realistic choices that remained were Cambodia/Nepal/Laos.

My wife does not have a visa for South Africa so returning to my home was not an option either. She can't apply for one either because the bureaucracy dictates that she can only apply for a SA visa in her country of residence and all SA embassies/consulates in China are closed until further notice. This effectively means that we are refugees. Biological refugees to be exact (new concept to me). Strange position to be in and it has been stressful, with a little dose of adventure. On our expedition we've met several Chinese or European/Chinese that is on a similar journey as us. Consider this – hundreds of thousands of Chinese (if not millions) who is not currently stuck in China, are now essentially refugees trying to find a place to ride this out.

So the walls were closing in on us and we didn't want to take any more chances so we jumped on a plane to Cambodia. We chose Cambodia because of the following reasons: (1) Cheap flights) (2) Can stay 60 days (3) The Cambodian political attitude towards Chinese is very welcoming, so any anti-Chinese sentiment that is starting to develop will have some delay here - we've experienced quite a bit of that anti-chinese sentiment already and it's not pleasant, could also be crucial if things start to go further south. (4) There is speculation that the virus would likely not spread quickly in hot & humid tropical countries - especially in poor countries where there aren't much air-conditioning. Hoping that would turn out to be true.

Now we are on our way to a small town close to the beach where we are planning to hunker down and just play a waiting game for the time being.

The situation in China
So much about China and what is happening there have been discussed. This thread is painting quite a comprehensive picture, but I'll try to give its readers a few fresh perspective that has not been discussed, or has not been talked about a lot. Of course there will be some overlap, but will try to keep to a minimum.

Life for normal people in China outside of Wuhan (this is in no way a reflection of my personal opinions, I'm commenting on what I believe to be the perspective of your average Chinese citizen)
I'm generalizing here, but this is the feeling that I get regarding the mindset of the average Chinese citizen.
I think most people trust the government unequivocally, that they will get them through this difficult time. They realize that China is facing a very dangerous threat and that the government has to do some unpleasant things - they are sort of giving the government carte blanche to do what needs to be done. They are fully cooperating and they are encouraging each other (through social media) to do the same and be good citizens and help the government to fight this virus.

The Chinese are currently prisoners in their own homes (severe restriction of movement), but they are sitting tight. They are anxious, being stuck indoors every day for the past 3 weeks. They are anxious about the situation and about their lack of freedoms, but yet they persist. They are very worried about the virus and its wide-ranging consequences.
Families are spending a lot of time together and as they grow closer to each other, they are also getting on each others' nerves. They spend their days watching TV, teaching their children, playing with their phones and searching for any information they can get their hands on virus related. They are extremely active on social media weibo and wechat groups. The whole situation has also stimulated the emergence of fresh humour and jokes (jokes about babies in 9 months is quite common, and how difficult it would be to be a thief during this time, and what good husbands the men make by spending so much time with their wives)
They are concerned about their finances, their businesses and many of them are starting to move their work online. The government are sending updates every day on wide range of topics (anything from virus, work, economy, new to laws/regulations related) and they read every word with great attention and care. They follow government updates religiously...................................

a reply to: tanstaafl

Why do you think the mass under reporting is only applicable to the numbers inside china?

Restrictions in most Cities- lockdown
More and more cities are on lockdown. In fact I don't know of a single major city that is not currently on lockdown. I don't have connections everywhere, but ones that I do have is all on lockdown (at least 40 major cities). By lockdown I mean the following. Every city probably has their own protocol but according to the information available to me, this is what lockdown means:
Lockdown: 1) Very limited or no public transportation, 2) Extremely limited movement of citizens outside of their immediate residential areas - One family member in a household is allowed out once every second day for a few limited amount of hours to acquire supplies – they hand out these tickets and these tickets are apparently increasingly valuable. 3) mandatory temperature checks when you leave and enter your own residential community 4) No visitors into a residential community from outside (5) they spray your shoes with surgical spirits/alcohol every time you return 6) can't really leave your city, and if you do - when you come back you have to be quarantined, (this seems to vary from city to city) 7) supermarkets/shopping centers have temperature checks. 8) Laws on wearing masks in public. 9) cars that return is sprayed with disinfectant/surgical alcohol. 10) Highways are closed, need special permission to venture out

Airports – international travel
Simple temperature checks at the airport.
Apparently the flight situation is quite an ordeal with flight cancelations all over the map and passengers delayed for many hours, sometimes days, sometimes even weeks.
Planes are generally empty. Very few flying passengers.

Government dissent
War time environment and any dissent against government is punished extremely harshly. It has been announced that any non-cooperation will result in arrests with severe punishment and even the death penalty. Stories of people who has been slapped with a 15 year sentence for selling used masks (masks that were dug out of trashcans for reselling). Others received 7 years sentence for marking up prices significantly – there has been a strict order that shops and sellers are not allowed to raise prices during this crisis. The government is clearly not playing around – the overwhelming majority is complying.
Essential Shops and essential services have been ordered to open. I know owners of small supermarket who wants to stay home and ride it out in isolation that has been forced by government to open their store. Hoarding up on soap and masks are also strictly prohibited.
Not wearing a mask in most public spaces also illegal. People are being arrested for not wearing masks.

Shortage of Masks
Citizens are using creative ways when they run out of masks. Many reports of people wearing a hollowed-out grapefruit as their mask.

Spraying streets with surgical alcohol
Government is apparently, spraying streets and apartments suspected of infection with surgical spirits alcohol liquid, highly flammable and also likely responsible for all the fires that we have seen in Wuhan. Government spray and then people flick their cigarettes and then boom. But its not just in Wuhan, they are popping up all over China. Apartments of infected people are being sprayed, very thoroughly.
A residential community next to ours in Chengdu had one case where one family was infected. The entire community was quarantined for a day or 2 and the spray squad came in and sprayed the whole place with their alcohol. Residents from my own community were pleading with their own citizens not to get infected because they don’t want the same to happen to them.
Not sure if its related to the white spray that has been circulating online. Will try to find out.

No air conditioners
Air conditioners and artificial air control suspended in all public places - apparently the virus travels further in airconditioned rooms and survives longer.

Smaller towns and villages protected by citizensCitizens of small towns/villages are cordoning off their villages/towns and are not letting any outsiders in. Making homemade weapons to protect their domains.

China is becoming increasingly vegetarianAs crazy as it sounds, people are actually becoming vegetarian. Probably just a short term trend, but people have nothing better to do than to post their pictures of their meals and I see vegetables everywhere – little to no meat.
People are absolutely buying the official cause of the virus (I personally think accidental leak out of lab)

Conclusion
This whole thing is totally mind blowingly batSh&t crazy. Simply astounding and I can’t believe what is currently transpiring the country I’ve called home for close to a decade. Incredible. The quarantine, the complete shutdown of China (just think about that for one second), the government’s chaotic response, the war of information on social media, the deaths of so many and everything else I failed to mention. SIMPLY MIND BOGGLING.
I’ll post more when more information comes to light or when something else comes to mind.

ok, not sure if thishas been posted as havn't got time to go through all theposts since I last posted but there is a 4th victim in the UK who has it, after picking it u in France, he is being treated in London.

A fourth patient has tested positive for coronavirus in the UK after being infected in France by another British case. They are being treated at the Royal Free Hospital in Camden, north London, marking the first person suffering the killer infection in the capital. The victim caught the virus in France from a previously confirmed UK patient, believed to be the British man under quarantine in Brighton who recently returned from a four-day trip to the Alpine ski resort of Contamines-Montjoie near Mont Blanc. This Brighton man became the third case on UK soil, joining two Chinese nationals quarantined in York. Health officials are now scrambling to track down anyone who came into contact with these UK cases to squash the spread of the highly-contagious virus.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: OldLightHouse

Nice, thanks for the update! I have a question; Can they still use tapwater safely? To drink? To take a shower? To brush their teeth? To use their toilet? Or are they depending in bottled water? What does their government say about tapwater use?

Hope you have Some info on this!

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Scientist who discovered Ebola warns 'major coronavirus outbreak’ in Britain would overwhelm the NHS if the disease becomes a pandemic

The microbiologist who co-discovered Ebola and the presence of Aids in Africa warns that Britain is at risk of a 'major' coronavirus outbreak likely to become a pandemic. Professor Peter Piot, an ex-under-secretary-general of the UN who championed the fight against Aids, said he was 'increasingly alarmed' by the speed at which the coronavirus has spread and the 'huge' number of cases that are revealed every day. Professor Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, now warns that the coronavirus poses a greater risk than Ebola, saying that even if the death rate among those infected is relatively low, 'if the number of people who get infected is huge, then that will also kill a number of people'. 'It's a greater threat because of the mode of transmission. The potential for spread is much, much higher,' he told the Sunday Times, adding that an increase in cases could put a severe strain on the NHS.

a reply to: kwakakev

Understand that the fragment tested for is tiny. It would be like saying that if we find a tiny fragment of DNA in common between you and chimpanzee, which we could easily do, someone created you by splicing in chimp genes instead of you being born the regular way.

Heck, you could be the product of test tube gene monkeying, have a similar size strand of DNA in common with chimps, and it still wouldn't mean they created you by splicing in chimp DNA or that you in any way had any meaningful commonalities with chimpanzees because of it.

That is how relevant the strand size of this RNA is to HIV and how relevant its purpose is to the overall functioning of the virus.

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
WuFlu.Live just updated again:

2020/2/7 15:22 (Pacific presumably)

World-Wide:
Confirmed: 34455
Deaths: 721
Recovered: 2013

Mainland China:
Confirmed: 34130
Deaths: 719
Recovered: 1987

Thank you very much for adding this secondary stat that shows that the only real problem here - to date for the last 2+ months, and currently - is in mainland China.

This is tragic and horrible for the Chinese people, but what we should be doing, instead of fear-mongering about ourselves, is start yelling loudly to bring the worlds resources to help the Chinese people - and hopefully, in the process, find out what is really going on (which, I believe, is that we'd find out that what is devastating everyone in China is not the CV, but something else that escaped the lab in WuHan).

a reply to: kwakakev
Here's the published RaTG13 comparison study.
www.sciencedirect.com...

Our analysis suggests that the 2019-nCoV although closely related to BatCoV RaTG13 sequence throughout the genome (sequence similarity 96.3%), shows discordant clustering with the Bat_SARS-like coronavirus sequences. Specifically, in the 5′-part spanning the first 11,498 nucleotides and the last 3′-part spanning 24,341–30,696 positions, 2019-nCoV and RaTG13 formed a single cluster with Bat_SARS-like coronavirus sequences, whereas in the middle region spanning the 3′-end of ORF1a, the ORF1b and almost half of the spike regions, 2019-nCoV and RaTG13 grouped in a separate distant lineage within the sarbecovirus branch.

The levels of genetic similarity between the 2019-nCoV and RaTG13 suggest that the latter does not provide the exact variant that caused the outbreak in humans, but the hypothesis that 2019-nCoV has originated from bats is very likely. We show evidence that the novel coronavirus (2019-nCov) is not-mosaic consisting in almost half of its genome of a distinct lineage within the betacoronavirus.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc
Yeah , Nice Try , that's BS . The Coronavirus is a " Man Made " Biological Weapon

Possibly, but I disagree...

I believe that the CV is not what is devastating everyone in China, but it is their attempt to cover up whatever it is that escaped from that lab in WuHan - but that it isn't infecting people outside mainland China even remotely as much as they'd hoped.