Corona Virus Updates Part 2

a reply to: tanstaafl

Yes, that's what I mean. What if some of their lockdown measures were actually enabling it to spread more effectively even though that wasn't the intent?

Pack a bunch of people inside a highrise block of apartments without expecting them to stay in their blocks with a close contact spreading bug ... That's a recipe for trouble like sending your child to school is in the states or taking a cruise on one of those ships is ...

If the only medical care people in China receive beyond traditional docs is to go to a hospital, but all your hospitals are overwhelmed plague zones ...

originally posted by: Optimal
a reply to: tanstaafl

How long ago did the international numbers start increasing globally outside of China? What was the date that, let's say, 30-50 global cases were reached?

I checked the "official" numbers on the WuFlu tracker, and the answer is that just about two weeks ago global cases were at 35. Now, you realize China was also at 35 some time ago. Go and check the time windows of the data and you should understand why comparing about 2 weeks of global growth vs months on ground zero growth is a little absurd.

Just in.

Officials Add Aerosol Infection to nCoV Risk List

a reply to: OldLightHouse

LightHouse, thanks for the commentary.

If you get a firm sense of how many deaths are occurring vice what we're being told by official sources, please advise us of your take on that situation.

Cheers

Via Twitter -

Harry Chen PhD
@IsChinar

"Citizens need to take their ID cards to take their body temperature and register to buy food."

Now Chongqing has an SO2 cloud visible by weather equipment.

Twitter

Strange. There is s rail link between the cities.

Wonder if Chongqing outbreak is much worse than we know. Or...?

The Mysterious Origin Of The Wuhan Coronavirus

Links to a good paper that discusses the official theories about bats at the wet markets along with some of the current research papers going around about the issues. The work conducted by Zheng-Li Shi is also brought up. She is head of China's biological response at this time and well experienced in the technology.

Shi’s group found in a study published in the Journal of Virology in February 2008 that the natural bat coronavirus cannot use the human ACE2 receptor to infect humans. However, when inserted with some amino acids from position 310 to 518 for the bat CoV S protein sequence, the chimeric bat CoV can use the human ACE2 receptor.

Meanwhile, another research group led by Dr. Li published their finding in 2013 that 5 amino acid sites on CoV spike proteins are crucial in making the binding to human ACE2 on SARS virus (those positions are Y442, L472, N479, D480, T487). These 5 sites just lie in the region that the Shi group noted to be important above.

Later, Li and Shi jointly conducted a gain-of-function study published in the Journal of Virology in September 2015 on the MERS virus and a bat virus (strain HKU4) in 2015. Since MERS virus can enter human cells but HKU4 can not, they introduced 2 single mutations in the HKU4 spike protein and found that the new mutant S protein can enable HKU4 to enter human cells. If they mutated 2 sites in MERS spike, the resulting MERS pseudovirus (experimental virus) cannot enter human cells anymore.

Due to the U.S. government-mandated pause on the gain-of-function (GOF) studies, this international research did not proceed further at that time. However, there is no evidence that Shi’s group in China stopped any further study on the track of introducing GOF mutations on the CoV. And it is clear that Shi’s group already mastered the reverse-engineering technology that is sufficient to introduce mutation in current SARS-CoV or SARS-Like CoV to create mutant infectious coronavirus.

a reply to: kwakakev

i totally agree that the number being reported are wrong and that the virus is way worse tha we are being old.

originally posted by: OldLightHouse
Hello everyone,

I'm returning now to ATS after a decade long break from the platform and all it took was an earth shattering corona virus shaking the entire Chinese community to the bone and perhaps even threatening the world at large.

I tuned in a bit late to this discussion, but I've read about 75% of the 2nd thread. I've been very close to this whole ordeal and I've been following it very closely from various sources - my memory gets a bit fuzzy in terms of what my sources are of the respective tidbits of information that I have obtained so please excuse if I'm repeating things that have already been posted.

I'm an expat and China has been my country of residence for the last 9 years. I'm married to a Chinese woman and we have 2 children as well (6&10). I speak decent Chinese, I have many Chinese friends and I belong to many wechat groups where people are constantly discussing the evolving situation. So, I might have access to some information that many others do not. I'll share as much as I can, but first I want to tell the ATS community about my personal situation.
If you are short on time, feel free to skip ahead to "The situation in China".

Personal situation
I left China (Chengdu) with my family on Chinese New Years day. The Chinese people at large did not see this coming, no idea it would get as bad as it did (and perhaps getting worse) and it took me only 3 days of incessant nagging to convince my wife to leave. We flew to Thailand on the 25th of January to put some distance between us and the virus.

Chinese have always had limited spontaneous traveling options. Not a strong passport to begin with, but shortly after our arrival more and more countries started to impose even more restrictions on where we could go. Chinese can receive a 15 days visa on arrival at Bangkok airports and they have the option to extend an extra week. So 3 weeks maximum.
We spent a few days at the beach while trying to figure out our next move and while we were figuring things out, country after country jumped on the bandwagon of restricting Chinese access.
Our first and second choice (Indonesia and Vietnam) suspended all Chinese visas. Other countries we were considering that also closed was India, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Bangladesh (close friends there) so our only realistic choices that remained were Cambodia/Nepal/Laos.

My wife does not have a visa for South Africa so returning to my home was not an option either. She can't apply for one either because the bureaucracy dictates that she can only apply for a SA visa in her country of residence and all SA embassies/consulates in China are closed until further notice. This effectively means that we are refugees. Biological refugees to be exact (new concept to me). Strange position to be in and it has been stressful, with a little dose of adventure. On our expedition we've met several Chinese or European/Chinese that is on a similar journey as us. Consider this – hundreds of thousands of Chinese (if not millions) who is not currently stuck in China, are now essentially refugees trying to find a place to ride this out.

So the walls were closing in on us and we didn't want to take any more chances so we jumped on a plane to Cambodia. We chose Cambodia because of the following reasons: (1) Cheap flights) (2) Can stay 60 days (3) The Cambodian political attitude towards Chinese is very welcoming, so any anti-Chinese sentiment that is starting to develop will have some delay here - we've experienced quite a bit of that anti-chinese sentiment already and it's not pleasant, could also be crucial if things start to go further south. (4) There is speculation that the virus would likely not spread quickly in hot & humid tropical countries - especially in poor countries where there aren't much air-conditioning. Hoping that would turn out to be true.

Now we are on our way to a small town close to the beach where we are planning to hunker down and just play a waiting game for the time being.

The situation in China
So much about China and what is happening there have been discussed. This thread is painting quite a comprehensive picture, but I'll try to give its readers a few fresh perspective that has not been discussed, or has not been talked about a lot. Of course there will be some overlap, but will try to keep to a minimum.

Life for normal people in China outside of Wuhan (this is in no way a reflection of my personal opinions, I'm commenting on what I believe to be the perspective of your average Chinese citizen)
I'm generalizing here, but this is the feeling that I get regarding the mindset of the average Chinese citizen.
I think most people trust the government unequivocally, that they will get them through this difficult time. They realize that China is facing a very dangerous threat and that the government has to do some unpleasant things - they are sort of giving the government carte blanche to do what needs to be done. They are fully cooperating and they are encouraging each other (through social media) to do the same and be good citizens and help the government to fight this virus.

The Chinese are currently prisoners in their own homes (severe restriction of movement), but they are sitting tight. They are anxious, being stuck indoors every day for the past 3 weeks. They are anxious about the situation and about their lack of freedoms, but yet they persist. They are very worried about the virus and its wide-ranging consequences.
Families are spending a lot of time together and as they grow closer to each other, they are also getting on each others' nerves. They spend their days watching TV, teaching their children, playing with their phones and searching for any information they can get their hands on virus related. They are extremely active on social media weibo and wechat groups. The whole situation has also stimulated the emergence of fresh humour and jokes (jokes about babies in 9 months is quite common, and how difficult it would be to be a thief during this time, and what good husbands the men make by spending so much time with their wives)
They are concerned about their finances, their businesses and many of them are starting to move their work online. The government are sending updates every day on wide range of topics (anything from virus, work, economy, new to laws/regulations related) and they read every word with great attention and care. They follow government updates religiously...................................

Please consider starting your own thread. This is actually interesting info and I hate for it to get lost in all of these pages. Thank you for posting this - very good stuff.

Just saw this article with video. Chilling if true … they say thousands of body bags stored underground in Guandong being bulldozed, but I could not get the video to run:

halturnerradioshow.com... s-of-corpses-in-body-bags-stored-underground

And just like that - this link was removed / 404'd. Must have hit a nerve.






halturnerradioshow.com... s-of-corpses-in-body-bags-stored-underground


Well, here is a cut and paste of the article. All I can get now:


World


CAUGHT! Video Shows China BULLDOZING piles of body bags into giant pit; photos show "Thousands" of Corpses in Body Bags Stored underground


World | News Desk | 09 February 2020 | Hits: 16821


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CAUGHT! Video Shows China BULLDOZING piles of body bags into giant pit; photos show "Thousands" of Corpses in Body Bags Stored underground
11 Comments

For weeks, the world has doubted the truthfulness of China as to the number of Coronavirus victims and deaths. Today, PROOF emerged that those doubts are well founded.

Video, below, shows piles of body bags, being bulldozed into a giant pit.

Puddles of blood appear on the road near this operation, presumably from the corpses as they were offloaded before being bulldozed.

MORE:

News services have revealed at least one photo of hundreds of corpses in body bags STORED in an underground area in Guandong, China.

The number of body bags in the video and in the photo, exceeds China's "official" count of about 800 dead from the disease outbreak.

VIDEO:

In the video below, piles of body bags can be seen on the ground as the camera pans left.

Then, the Bulldozer comes into view and can be seen pushing the bags toward a giant pit, which is visible as the camera pans right.

At the end of the short video clip, BLOOD can be clearly seen, pooled on the roadway near this operation. A LOT of blood.



The image shown below, from TV News, also shows a portion of "thousands" of corpses inside body bags, found in an underground storage area in Guandong, China.





China has clearly been lying to the world about how many are infected by this new disease, and about how many have died from it.

"Nothing to see here. It's just a Flu."



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Can maybe still find the article yourselves in the topics from this main page: halturnerradioshow.com...

originally posted by: OldLightHouse
Just in.
Official transmission notice from Chinese government. A must read.

Officials Add Aerosol Infection to nCoV Risk List

I've followed these 2 mega-threads religiously, and kept what I feel is a measured reaction-- neither distraught nor unfazed-- but these quotes from your source gave me pause and took me from passive reader to poster...

That means if an infected individual within three feet of you so much as breathes in your direction, there is a chance of transmission.

current scientific data suggests the coronavirus can survive on surfaces for several hours to up to five days

I'm I the only one who can't help but extrapolate from this that once the coronavirus becomes airborne via exhalation, that it can float along in natural currents of air for up to 5 days awaiting inhalation by an unsuspecting victim? I mean, if it can live on a doorknob for 5 days, why not?

originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
Just saw this article with video. Chilling if true … they say thousands of body bags stored underground in Guandong being bulldozed, but I could not get the video to run:

halturnerradioshow.com... s-of-corpses-in-body-bags-stored-underground

halturnerradioshow.com... s-of-corpses-in-body-bags-stored-underground

originally posted by: CrazeeWorld777
a reply to: kwakakev
i totally agree that the number being reported are wrong and that the virus is way worse tha we are being old.

I don't think any proof for that is needed wrt the CCP, but...

What proof or evidence do you have the same applies to the USA/rest of the world?

a reply to: kwakakev

Add to that the anomalous characteristics of 2019-nCOV like:
The infected exhibiting no symptoms for up to 14 days...
Source

Long survivability on dry surfaces for up to 28 days...
Source

Exceptional aerosol infection ability...
Source

Unprecedented quarantine measures taken by the Chinese and other world governments (Already documented on this thread)...

Evidence is mounting 2019-nCOV is a genetically engineered bioweapon.

The video looks like a normal video of the hospital construction, the screenshots of body bags don't line up with the video at all.

originally posted by: Power_Semi
"originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
Just saw this article with video. Chilling if true … they say thousands of body bags stored underground in Guandong being bulldozed, but I could not get the video to run:

halturnerradioshow.com...

Hal Turner? The white supremacist scammer that has lied way too many times about things like this to even remotely be considered a reliable source?

Maybe 'Reliable Sources' Stelter will run with it...

originally posted by: TritonTaranis


Most effective is running hot water and soap

Washing it away is going be be more cost effective than a massive stack of expensive wipes

Yeah, no doubt, but running hot water is not very portable. The idea behind the handi-wipes is being able to disinfect your hands when you are out and about. Like after you have run into the bank or grocery store, and you want to clean your hands before getting back into your vehicle.

I've seen advertising stating that these handi-wipes will kill 99.9% of germs. But I'm guessing there must be some substantial caveats to that claim.

Just got an update from family members still in China (Shanghai specifically):

Apparently one of them went out to buy some food and some bottled water, and almost couldn't get back into their neighborhood.

Not clear to me at this point if these are government officials of some kind regulating who can walk in and out of where, or it's just residents that have banded together to keep outsiders from coming in potentially with the infection.

Either way, it's kind of what I was fearing that I mentioned earlier in the thread, about not really being afraid of the virus so much as people.

I told him this is just another sign that it's time to get the out of there.

.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Yeah, probably not reliable then. But why is this guy posting this sort of hysteria-provoking stuff?

Wikipedia isn't very reliable either, I might add (they certainly have their own bias).

originally posted by: kwakakev
Bodies piling up, Hubei Province funeral home workers pushed to near collapse as cremation centers burn HUNDREDS of bodies per day

A bombshell story published in Chinese by Liberty Times Net reveals that just one funeral home is “cremating 316 bodies per day” as its workers are driven to total exhaustion with just two hours of sleep per day.

Note that the 316 bodies per day is from just one funeral home. That’s nowhere near the actual total of bodies being cremated in the region, of course. Another funeral home in the region, the “Hankou Funeral Home,” is documented to have the capacity to cremate 576 bodies per day all by itself.

We do not yet know how many cremation centers are operating in the Hubei Province, where the Wuhan city resides, but just from these two, the cremation capacity is nearly 900 bodies per day, and even then the bodies are piling up. From these facts we can deduce that the actual death rate in the region most likely exceeds 900 bodies per day.

To get a more accurate death toll, looking at what is exactly happening at the crematoriums is a good start.

From a past posts, it was estimated that about 200 bodies a day where cremated on an average day for a city the size of Wuhan, previous to the infection. Wuhan has about 5 to 7 main crematoriums from recollection. So could be looking at 2000-3000 deaths per day as a rough estimate at this stage. Compared to the recovery rate it leaves about 10% of survival. With something this deadly it makes sense to shut down a city.

I know there is a lot of debate and uncertainty of just what the fatality rate actually is. For now I am personally preparing myself for something around the 50% rate with all that I have seen. 15% is possible and a low mark for now, 90% is also possibility for the high end. Access to good support, medication and care seams to help. It is going to take a while for all the long term data to come in and get verified. For now the 2% figure is about as good as Adam Schiff.

One thing to add when looking at the crematorium data is how all burials are now banned from what I can gather. This will add some workload to to crematorium from other causes of death. Trying to get a rough idea to it all.

If the survival rate is dismal, does anyone really think that China will wait until a victim has actually expired before wanting to get rid of them? They will likely just be considered as active sources of infection, and treated as such. People are just an expendable resource to China, and treated as such. IMHO.