Our Suns Binary and Spiritual Second Sun (Coverup)

a reply to: Byrd
Hi Byrd,
Do you read some of the links you leave?
Quote from last post below and link:-
"It was the Romans (long before Christianity) who decided that the day began at midnight: en.wikipedia.org...
Romans adjusted hours to be longer in Summer than in Winter, no mention of midnight????
From YOUR link it is obvious that the start of the day for ancient Romans was Sunrise, quote below:-
"Natural day

The natural day (dies naturalis) ran from sunrise to sunset.[4]

The hours were numbered from one to 12 as follows: hora prima, hora secunda, hora tertia, etc. To indicate that it is a day or night hour Romans used expressions such as for example prima diei hora (first hour of the day), and prima noctis hora (first hour of the night).[5]
Watches of the night

The Romans divided the night into four watches, (Latin vigiliae plural), following the Greek practice (Greek φυλακή). "In the fourth watch of night" (quarta vigilia noctis) meant just before dawn.

The four night watches were called prima vigilia, secunda vigilia, tertia vigilia, and quarta vigilia, and the intervals of time were tracked using water clocks.
Time keeping devices

The Romans used various ancient timekeeping devices. The sundial was imported from Sicily in 263BC[6] and they were set up in public places.[2] Sundials were used to callibrate water clocks.[7] The disadvantage of sundials, or shadow clocks, was that only worked in sunshine and had to be recalibrated depending on the latitude and season.[8]
Legacy
The Roman day starting at dawn survives today in the Spanish word siesta, literally the sixth hour of the day (sexta hora).[9]"

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Astronomer62
We have already established that the Egyptians were fuzzy over the Sothic Cycle, and Sirius didn't rise with the Sun on even a small amount of times to how we could calcalate on the first day of Thoth being New Year in the Egyptian Calendar, because the Egyptian Calendar never had any leap days added, in 100 years Sirius would be approx. 25 degrees off rising with the Sun, so the working of their calendar it steeped in mystery.

They kept two calendars... a civil one of 365 days and a lunar one based on the moon and observation. They would add in the month of Thoth to adjust the calendar back to 365 1/4th days. www.britannica.com...

Julius Caesar instituted the leap year system we have today.

But legends persisted, so we come to Hermes Trismegistus, which i feel all these beliefs came from, that are apparent today in secret beliefs, link below:-en.wikipedia.org...

Possibly... though Hermes Trismegistus was more involved with alchemy. It's a concocted belief and has very little to do with the real beliefs and practices of ancient Egypt.

In 1582 these beliefs did creep into the Catholic Church during the time of Calendar re-calibration, you can see this in the floor of Siena Cathedral with picture of Hermes Trismegistus ( not sure he even existed), link below:-
operaduomo.siena.it...

He did not exist.

I would argue that Hermes Trismegistus was not part of the beliefs of the Catholic Church. He was considered a "wise pagan" who saw the coming Christianity and Hermeticism (a competing belief to early Christianity) had some small impact on Christianity itself. But that all fell out of favor until the late 1400's en.wikipedia.org... when there's a revival of interest -- but he never gets adopted as a saint and never appears in numerous cathedrals. Hermeticism is eventually tied to alchemy and then to practices they considered dangerous such as necromancy.

There's actually more references/art in cathedrals and Christian lore relating to King Arthur and his knights and the Round Table than there are to Hermes Trismegistus.

You say that you were trained as an astrologer, so it should be easy for you to use Astro-Dienst where you can calibrate a chart for yourself, use extented chart options to get projected fixed stars on the ecliptic, which isn't accurate to astronomy, so the first Gregorian New Year in Rome at midnight is time, 00:00 1st January 1583 after calendar reform, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
Link to Astro-Dienst below, work it out by yourself, remember you need to see connection to M.C. and Sirius:-

What, exactly, am I working out here? You gave a list of organizations with year dates; when the "birth" dates were looked at there was no correlation. Could you be more specific, please?

There is no need to debate early astrology attempts by the Egyptians, legends persisted and by 1582 astrology was well established, and the Catholic Church thought they would follow suit with the legends about Egypt and Sirius rising with the Sun on New Years Day.
Clocks by 1582 were being established, therefore the start of the day was changed to midnight with Sirius culminating!

It was the Romans (long before Christianity) who decided that the day began at midnight: en.wikipedia.org...

The ancient material about Sirius that comes down to us is mainly Roman, with some Greek notes as well. Remember that these languages persisted (where hieroglyphs and the writing of Egypt did not) and that every well-educated person was expected to be familiar with Greek and Roman writings. They form the basis of our philosophy and religion: articles.adsabs.harvard.edu...

In fact, the Romans had a very elaborate set of beliefs about Sirius (see Holberg, Jay B. Sirius: Brightest diamond in the night sky. Springer Science & Business Media, 2007. )

Egyptian legends persist only because Romans wrote about them, and the Romans and Greeks don't record anything about Sirius from the Egyptians (as far as I know... if you can provide references to contradict this please do.)

Yes the Egyptians had two calendars, the other was a moon calendar, which will not keep things true with the Sothic Cycle, it is impossible to verify through astronomy.
The breakthrough with using midnight was the emerging clocks and people like Jost Burgi, quote from link below:-
"1576: Magnetic dip - variation between true and magnetic north - discovered by English mariner, compass builder and hydrographer Robert Norman.

1577: Swiss clockmaker, maker of astronomical instruments and a mathematician Jost Burgi invents the minute hand. Burgi's invention is part of a clock made for Danish nobleman Tycho Brahe, an astronomer who needed an accurate clock for his stargazing"
www.lhaasdav.com...
Hermeticism lasted far longer than the Renaissence as shown by quote below:-
"In the late Middle Ages, reaction against the rational soulessness of Aristotle and the resurgence of neo-Platonism provided an encouraging environment to the mystical spirituality of hermeticism causing the philosophy to attract many followers. In the sixteenth century, Isaac Casaubon discovered that the Hermetic Writings were far from ancient, having actually been written in the second century, and were part of the early Neoplatonic movement. Despite this proof of the fraudulent nature of the texts, hermeticism continued to be very popular and influenced many of the great scientific minds of the Renaissance and early modern periods, among them Copernicus, Robert Boyle and Sir Isaac Newton."
Link below:-
www.faculty.umb.edu...
Robert Boyle was heavily involved with the "Invisible College, that was involved in hermetic philosophy, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...

"You say that you were trained as an astrologer, so it should be easy for you to use Astro-Dienst where you can calibrate a chart for yourself, use extented chart options to get projected fixed stars on the ecliptic, which isn't accurate to astronomy, so the first Gregorian New Year in Rome at midnight is time, 00:00 1st January 1583 after calendar reform, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
Link to Astro-Dienst below, work it out by yourself, remember you need to see connection to M.C. and Sirius:-


What, exactly, am I working out here? You gave a list of organizations with year dates; when the "birth" dates were looked at there was no correlation. Could you be more specific, please?"
I thought i was specific, so i repeat again, midnight Rome, 1st Jan. 1583.

I said legends were made out of Hermeticism that were alleged to be Egyptian, i never said that it was correct!
Astrology was and is part of Hermeticism. Your Quote below:-

Possibly... though Hermes Trismegistus was more involved with alchemy. It's a concocted belief and has very little to do with the real beliefs and practices of ancient Egypt.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now i have already said that the "Projected onto the Ecliptic measure" that some astrologers use isn't accurate to astronomy, however the first year that Sirius is aligned to the M.C. is 1st January 1583 after calendar reform in 1582.
This inaccurate measure continued to the last quarter of 1700's within one degree, after 1800 we have the True South Culmination of Sirius that we are agreed happens on 1st January at midnight.
Astrology chart below regarding Sirius aligned to M.C. at midnight in Rome on 1st January 1583:-

originally posted by: Astronomer62
Yes the Egyptians had two calendars, the other was a moon calendar, which will not keep things true with the Sothic Cycle, it is impossible to verify through astronomy.

I'm a little confused with all the attention to human-made calendars relating to only a few civilizations. The Sothic Cycle is an astronomical observation. It doesn't rely on a calendar or clocks, which are arbitrary human constructs.

The breakthrough with using midnight was the emerging clocks and people like Jost Burgi, quote from link below:-
"1576: Magnetic dip - variation between true and magnetic north - discovered by English mariner, compass builder and hydrographer Robert Norman.

With all due respect, this does not support your statement that the day began at midnight as an invention of the 1500's. The concept of the day beginning at midnight is a thousand years older and dates to Rome.

What, exactly, am I working out here? You gave a list of organizations with year dates; when the "birth" dates were looked at there was no correlation. Could you be more specific, please?"

I thought i was specific, so i repeat again, midnight Rome, 1st Jan. 1583.

My question wasn't about that date. It was about the list of organizations that you gave, claiming they were all significant and making some sweeping claims (that I have some quibbles with) for them. You gave the years when they were organized (at least I assume so) but not the place and time and exact date of the formation (we would do a "natal chart" based off this.)

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Astronomer62
Yes the Egyptians had two calendars, the other was a moon calendar, which will not keep things true with the Sothic Cycle, it is impossible to verify through astronomy.

I'm a little confused with all the attention to human-made calendars relating to only a few civilizations. The Sothic Cycle is an astronomical observation. It doesn't rely on a calendar or clocks, which are arbitrary human constructs.

The breakthrough with using midnight was the emerging clocks and people like Jost Burgi, quote from link below:-
"1576: Magnetic dip - variation between true and magnetic north - discovered by English mariner, compass builder and hydrographer Robert Norman.

With all due respect, this does not support your statement that the day began at midnight as an invention of the 1500's. The concept of the day beginning at midnight is a thousand years older and dates to Rome.

What, exactly, am I working out here? You gave a list of organizations with year dates; when the "birth" dates were looked at there was no correlation. Could you be more specific, please?"

I thought i was specific, so i repeat again, midnight Rome, 1st Jan. 1583.

My question wasn't about that date. It was about the list of organizations that you gave, claiming they were all significant and making some sweeping claims (that I have some quibbles with) for them. You gave the years when they were organized (at least I assume so) but not the place and time and exact date of the formation (we would do a "natal chart" based off this.)

The Sothic Cycles has always had disputes,A) where it was viewed from, and did it change viewing point after time.
B) The Egyptians didn't view this straight on the horizon, but rather a considerable period before sunrise, so begs the question how long before sunrise?
I do a lot of work verifying ancient Eclipses that needs added software, trying to work out the Moon Calendar position can be problematic, due to Delta T. link below:-
eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...
So to go back to 3000 BC does have inaccuracies.
I'm finished in trying to explain disputes regarding Sothic Cycle.
The Ancient Romans only had Sun Dials and water clocks, they NEVER started the day at midnight, water clocks were not accurate, the day started at sunrise, the same as Egyptians.
sites.google.com...
The ancient Greeks started the day at previous sunset to date in Gregorian Calendar, as shown below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
To fully understand this we can look at the Florentine Calendar:-
en.wikipedia.org...

The Gregorian Calendar become an icon of the Christian World, it was aligned to Sirius.
It is hypocrisy that the Catholic Church burned people for having different beliefs in the Inquisition, when all the time they were following ancient Egyptian beliefs.
In Rome on 21st July 1542 the Inquisition started, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
A few years later on 21st July 1550, the Jesuits gained acceptance.
en.wikipedia.org...
I'm only showing the Jesuit astronomy graph as the Inquisition graph would show the same, the powerful deliberate alignment, Sirius rising with the Sun!

originally posted by: Astronomer62

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Astronomer62
Yes the Egyptians had two calendars, the other was a moon calendar, which will not keep things true with the Sothic Cycle, it is impossible to verify through astronomy.

I'm a little confused with all the attention to human-made calendars relating to only a few civilizations. The Sothic Cycle is an astronomical observation. It doesn't rely on a calendar or clocks, which are arbitrary human constructs.

The breakthrough with using midnight was the emerging clocks and people like Jost Burgi, quote from link below:-
"1576: Magnetic dip - variation between true and magnetic north - discovered by English mariner, compass builder and hydrographer Robert Norman.

With all due respect, this does not support your statement that the day began at midnight as an invention of the 1500's. The concept of the day beginning at midnight is a thousand years older and dates to Rome.

What, exactly, am I working out here? You gave a list of organizations with year dates; when the "birth" dates were looked at there was no correlation. Could you be more specific, please?"

I thought i was specific, so i repeat again, midnight Rome, 1st Jan. 1583.

My question wasn't about that date. It was about the list of organizations that you gave, claiming they were all significant and making some sweeping claims (that I have some quibbles with) for them. You gave the years when they were organized (at least I assume so) but not the place and time and exact date of the formation (we would do a "natal chart" based off this.)

The Sothic Cycles has always had disputes,A) where it was viewed from, and did it change viewing point after time.
B) The Egyptians didn't view this straight on the horizon, but rather a considerable period before sunrise, so begs the question how long before sunrise?

The "Sothic cycle" would actually have been pretty meaningless to the Egyptians. They didn't count years from a starting point, but rather "the year 12 of the reign of Ramesses II"... etc. So they just looked for the helical rising of Sirius and didn't bother with where it rose.

The Ancient Romans only had Sun Dials and water clocks, they NEVER started the day at midnight, water clocks were not accurate, the day started at sunrise, the same as Egyptians.
sites.google.com...

Your link very clearly says that there were two types of day measurements - civil day and natural day. So the idea of midnight beginning the day was, as I said, Roman and dates from earlier than 200 AD.

The third century grammarian Censorinus discusses the structure of the day in his De die natali (238 CE) and distinguishes the natural day (from sunrise to sunset) from the civil day (from midnight to midnight).

...and this still didn't answer the question of why you listed a group of departments by founding year rather than by natal birthdate of the organization or what it had to do with your astrology and Sirius.

originally posted by: Astronomer62
The Gregorian Calendar become an icon of the Christian World, it was aligned to Sirius.

I haven't seen convincing proof of this (to me, "convincing" would be Vatican astronomers writing about it and timing things to the heavens over a period of many centuries.)

Now... I know that they were interested in astronomy to determine the dates of Easter and certain feast days, but I can't think of a single one tied to Sirius.

It is hypocrisy that the Catholic Church burned people for having different beliefs in the Inquisition, when all the time they were following ancient Egyptian beliefs.

They didn't have any particular beliefs. Unlike the Babylonians, who identified multi-year cycles of various planets, there's no records of the Egyptians tracking the planets or the sky that clearly. www.catholic.com...

During Ptolemaic times (300 BC) their system merges with Greek and Babylonian astronomy and the whole science gets a lot more professional and organized: en.wikipedia.org...

In Rome on 21st July 1542 the Inquisition started, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
A few years later on 21st July 1550, the Jesuits gained acceptance.
en.wikipedia.org...
I'm only showing the Jesuit astronomy graph as the Inquisition graph would show the same, the powerful deliberate alignment, Sirius rising with the Sun!

Then what about 21st July in the years between 1542 and 1550? Sirius would have been rising with the sun during those years, too.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Astronomer62

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Astronomer62
Yes the Egyptians had two calendars, the other was a moon calendar, which will not keep things true with the Sothic Cycle, it is impossible to verify through astronomy.

I'm a little confused with all the attention to human-made calendars relating to only a few civilizations. The Sothic Cycle is an astronomical observation. It doesn't rely on a calendar or clocks, which are arbitrary human constructs.

The breakthrough with using midnight was the emerging clocks and people like Jost Burgi, quote from link below:-
"1576: Magnetic dip - variation between true and magnetic north - discovered by English mariner, compass builder and hydrographer Robert Norman.

With all due respect, this does not support your statement that the day began at midnight as an invention of the 1500's. The concept of the day beginning at midnight is a thousand years older and dates to Rome.

What, exactly, am I working out here? You gave a list of organizations with year dates; when the "birth" dates were looked at there was no correlation. Could you be more specific, please?"

I thought i was specific, so i repeat again, midnight Rome, 1st Jan. 1583.

My question wasn't about that date. It was about the list of organizations that you gave, claiming they were all significant and making some sweeping claims (that I have some quibbles with) for them. You gave the years when they were organized (at least I assume so) but not the place and time and exact date of the formation (we would do a "natal chart" based off this.)

The Sothic Cycles has always had disputes,A) where it was viewed from, and did it change viewing point after time.
B) The Egyptians didn't view this straight on the horizon, but rather a considerable period before sunrise, so begs the question how long before sunrise?

The "Sothic cycle" would actually have been pretty meaningless to the Egyptians. They didn't count years from a starting point, but rather "the year 12 of the reign of Ramesses II"... etc. So they just looked for the helical rising of Sirius and didn't bother with where it rose.

The Ancient Romans only had Sun Dials and water clocks, they NEVER started the day at midnight, water clocks were not accurate, the day started at sunrise, the same as Egyptians.
sites.google.com...

Your link very clearly says that there were two types of day measurements - civil day and natural day. So the idea of midnight beginning the day was, as I said, Roman and dates from earlier than 200 AD.

The third century grammarian Censorinus discusses the structure of the day in his De die natali (238 CE) and distinguishes the natural day (from sunrise to sunset) from the civil day (from midnight to midnight).

...and this still didn't answer the question of why you listed a group of departments by founding year rather than by natal birthdate of the organization or what it had to do with your astrology and Sirius.

I have always said that dating by the Sothic Cycle going backwards and using dates regarding Pharaoh's is highly difficult, the legend that Sirius rose at the start of every year being first of Thoth is just a legend, as shown below:-
Problems and criticisms

"Determining the date of a heliacal rise of Sirius has been shown to be difficult, especially considering the need to know the exact latitude of the observation.[3] Another problem is that because the Egyptian calendar loses one day every four years, a heliacal rise will take place on the same day for four years in a row, and any observation of that rise can date to any of those four years, making the observation imprecise.[3]

A number of criticisms have been leveled against the reliability of dating by the Sothic cycle. Some are serious enough to be considered problematic. Firstly, none of the astronomical observations have dates that mention the specific pharaoh in whose reign they were observed, forcing Egyptologists to supply that information on the basis of a certain amount of informed speculation. Secondly, there is no information regarding the nature of the civil calendar throughout the course of Egyptian history, forcing Egyptologists to assume that it existed unchanged for thousands of years; the Egyptians would only have needed to carry out one calendar reform in a few thousand years for these calculations to be worthless. Other criticisms are not considered as problematic, e.g. there is no extant mention of the Sothic cycle in ancient Egyptian writing, which may simply be a result of it either being so obvious to Egyptians that it didn't merit mention or to relevant texts being destroyed over time or still awaiting discovery.

One recent popular history of the Ancient Near East by Marc Van de Mieroop, in his discussion of chronology and dating, does not mention the Sothic cycle at all, and believes that the bulk of historians nowadays would consider that it is not possible to put forward exact dates earlier than the 8th century BCE. [13]

Some have recently claimed that the Theran eruption marks the beginning of the Eighteenth dynasty due to Theran ash and pumice discoveries in the ruins of Avaris in layers that mark the end of the Hyksos era[citation needed]. Because the evidence of dendrochronologists indicates the eruption took place in 1626 BC, this has been taken to indicate that dating by the Sothic cycle is off by 50–80 years at the outset of the 18th dynasty[citation needed]. Claims that the Thera eruption is the subject of the Tempest Stele of Ahmose I[14] have been disputed by writers such as Peter James.[15]"
en.wikipedia.org...

And being an archeaoastronomer i can see problems with dating going backwards especially trying to date with other calendars like the hebrew calendar and bible study.
I don't go beyond the start of the Julian Calendar on 1st January 45BC, there is also another problem that i add going back thousands of years which is Delta T, so if the date is beyond 1500 i add this criteria, quote below:-
"For many centuries, the fundamental unit of time was the rotational period of the Earth with respect to the Sun. Universal Time or UT (colloquially called Greenwich Mean Time or GMT) is based on mean solar time from Greenwich, England. Unfortunately, Universal Time is not a uniform time scale because Earth's rotational period is gradually increasing.

As Earth rotates on its axis, tidal friction is imposed on it through the gravitational attraction with the Moon and, to a lesser extent, the Sun. This secular acceleration gradually transfers angular momentum from Earth to the Moon. As Earth loses energy and slows down, the Moon gains this energy and its orbital period and distance from Earth increase."
Link below:-
eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...

There is little doubt that ancient people used sundial's during the day and dubious water clocks during the night to roughly calcalate hours, it was problematic in hot countries like Rome due to vaporization of water and dripping even after sunset, and as the Sun appears to move by approx. one degree per day, a different amount of water was needed every day to calcalate midnight.
Whatever you say Sunrise and Sunset were used for astronomical and astrological alignments not midnight, this they could calcalate after the Greek math and geometry teachers were able to plot the stars.
We can see this with Hebrew calendar that plots days by Sunset:-
en.wikipedia.org...
The Roman Calendar was hopeless before the Julian Calendar, all the Senate tinkered with it for their own motives, So Julius Caesar wanted a more accurate calendar, so while he was romancing Cleopatra up the Nile, he asked her and Sosigenes who it is thought was a member of the Great Library of Alexandria.
en.wikipedia.org...
To get the hopeless Roman calendar back to being in season, 0046 BC was 445 days long, it doesn't say much for the Roman Calendar or being to calcalate midnight on the wrong day!
Today, UH scholar Richard Armstrong tells us about the longest year in history. The Honors College at the University of Houston presents this series about the machines that make our civilization run, and the people whose ingenuity created them.

"What was the longest year in history? It sounds like a silly question, but it's not. There is a correct answer: It was 46 BC. Julius Caesar stretched that year out to a whopping size. He wanted to make the following year begin at the right time again: that is, after the winter solstice."
uh.edu...
Actually when the Julian Calendar started, the Winter Solstice was falling on 25th December, not 21st December as it does now, the legend is that a lot of pagan gods were born on this date without saying Jesus didn't exist.
Cleopatra was Greek but thought she was Isis on Earth, Day start for ancient Greeks was Sunset previous to date, and as you see below in Thebes/Luxor, as Sun set on 31 December 0046 BC, Sirius was rising, Cleopatra wanted the Julian Calendar aligned to her!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Astronomer62
I have always said that dating by the Sothic Cycle going backwards and using dates regarding Pharaoh's is highly difficult, the legend that Sirius rose at the start of every year being first of Thoth is just a legend, as shown below:-

With all due respect, your link is conflating the civil calendar in Egypt (which did have problems) with the "natural calendar", which always started with the heliacal rising of Sirius.

They kept two calendars.

"Determining the date of a heliacal rise of Sirius has been shown to be difficult, especially considering the need to know the exact latitude of the observation.[3] Another problem is that because the Egyptian calendar loses one day every four years, a heliacal rise will take place on the same day for four years in a row, and any observation of that rise can date to any of those four years, making the observation imprecise.

Civil calendar, not natural calendar. It was the natural calendar that they relied most on.

. Firstly, none of the astronomical observations have dates that mention the specific pharaoh in whose reign they were observed...

Yes. Exactly. As I keep repeating, they were TERRIBLE astronomers.

Other criticisms are not considered as problematic, e.g. there is no extant mention of the Sothic cycle in ancient Egyptian writing...

Again, something I have repeated more than once.

One recent popular history of the Ancient Near East by Marc Van de Mieroop, in his discussion of chronology and dating, does not mention the Sothic cycle at all, and believes that the bulk of historians nowadays would consider that it is not possible to put forward exact dates earlier than the 8th century BCE.

Exactly. Which is why dates are always given as a range and open to adjusting.

"For many centuries, the fundamental unit of time was the rotational period of the Earth with respect to the Sun. Universal Time or UT (colloquially called Greenwich Mean Time or GMT) is based on mean solar time from Greenwich, England. Unfortunately, Universal Time is not a uniform time scale because Earth's rotational period is gradually increasing.

Which is why there's a delta T adjustment in the time scale in history.

Yes. All of the above is well-known and understood.

originally posted by: Astronomer62
Whatever you say Sunrise and Sunset were used for astronomical and astrological alignments not midnight, this they could calcalate after the Greek math and geometry teachers were able to plot the stars.

Once again, let me state that I quibbled with your saying that we started the day at midnight only after the invention of the clock (late Middle Ages.) As I have pointed out (twice), the Romans were the first with this practice and it began sometime after 200 AD.

(the rest of the post wasn't relevant to the original discussion point, which was that the legal day beginning at midnight was something started by the Romans around 200 AD. Not BC and not before.)

...and none of that addressed my question of why you put a list of US organizations and their year of founding as somehow important.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Astronomer62
Yes the Egyptians had two calendars, the other was a moon calendar, which will not keep things true with the Sothic Cycle, it is impossible to verify through astronomy.

I'm a little confused with all the attention to human-made calendars relating to only a few civilizations. The Sothic Cycle is an astronomical observation. It doesn't rely on a calendar or clocks, which are arbitrary human constructs.

The breakthrough with using midnight was the emerging clocks and people like Jost Burgi, quote from link below:-
"1576: Magnetic dip - variation between true and magnetic north - discovered by English mariner, compass builder and hydrographer Robert Norman.

With all due respect, this does not support your statement that the day began at midnight as an invention of the 1500's. The concept of the day beginning at midnight is a thousand years older and dates to Rome.

What, exactly, am I working out here? You gave a list of organizations with year dates; when the "birth" dates were looked at there was no correlation. Could you be more specific, please?"

I thought i was specific, so i repeat again, midnight Rome, 1st Jan. 1583.

My question wasn't about that date. It was about the list of organizations that you gave, claiming they were all significant and making some sweeping claims (that I have some quibbles with) for them. You gave the years when they were organized (at least I assume so) but not the place and time and exact date of the formation (we would do a "natal chart" based off this.)

Hi Byrd,
I will leave the all information about American security organisations in time, please note i can't write too much at a time, i'm ill more than i'm not, having a broken spinal cord with complications, if you need more info before i'm ready, ask Canadian Mason to give a lot of references about this, i need to cluster around Gregorian calendar at the moment.
The Gregorian Calendar started at midnight, because clocks were getting more accurate by Jost Burgi, link below:-
www.lindahall.org...
The last minute of the Gregorian Calendar was 23:59pm on 4th October 1582, 5th October didn't exist, therefore this was the last salute to the Julian Calendar, Sirius was rising.

The Vatican obelisk was aligned to Sirius by Sunrise while Sirius was culminating link below:-
civil.lindahall.org...


Epiphany is aligned to Sirius being when the alleged three wise men arrived in Bethlehem, first miracle and baptism.
This i will show tomorrow.
The early orthodox church in Egypt does show interest in Egyptian philosophy.
My carer is putting to bed i will be back tomorrow.

Link for Epiphany below:-
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Further links below:-
ldysinger.stjohnsem.edu...@texts/0381_egeria/00a_start.htm
www.timeanddate.com...

originally posted by: Astronomer62
The Vatican obelisk was aligned to Sirius by Sunrise while Sirius was culminating link below:-
civil.lindahall.org...

Epiphany is aligned to Sirius being when the alleged three wise men arrived in Bethlehem, first miracle and baptism.
This i will show tomorrow.
The early orthodox church in Egypt does show interest in Egyptian philosophy.
My carer is putting to bed i will be back tomorrow.

Okay.. this doesn't make any sense.

The Vatican obelisk is an ancient Egyptian artifact that was brought to Rome by Caligula. He set it up and it was later moved by Pope Sixtus IV and it was aligned so that it could be used as a sun dial. I don't see any evidence that they staged the moving to align it with any particular heavenly alignment.

Do you have any documents or letters where they're shown instructing the movers that it must be erected on a certain date? The feast of the epiphany is in January, not September.

a reply to: [post=25014734]Byrd[/post.
This doesn't make any sense, could you please show where i said that Epiphany was in September, obviously it is 6th January?
www.agos.com.tr...
You asked for any events in scriptures that were aligned to Sirius, the early church thought that the Birth, arrival of the three wise men, the first miracle of turning water into wine and Jesus's baptism were all on 6th January.
These events were not far from Bethlehem, and by Hebrew day start would happen at sunset on 5th January while Sirius was rising in the East.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
What you asked for was already stated on this thread.
It is possible to follow this alignment from Persia but only if you know date of birth beforehand, the wise men would know of Tishtrya, as Sirius, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
These events do show the connect to Sirius but may have manipulated as we are not sure of Christ's birth or death date.
Mirsilio Ficino who was slightly earlier than Calendar reform who was a Catholic Priest was heavily involved with Hermeticism, and many Popes did practice astrology of the period, as shown below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Quote from link below:-
"Emperors and popes became votaries of astrology-- the Emperors Charles IV and V, and Popes Sixtus IV, Julius II, Leo X, and Paul III. When these rulers lived astrology was, so to say, the regulator of official life; it is a fact characteristic of the age, that at the papal and imperial courts ambassadors were not received in audience until the court astrologer had been consulted."
www.newadvent.org...
The Coptic Church in Egypt still uses a remnant of the old Egyptian Calendar.
www.copticchurch.net...
en.wikipedia.org...
The Church during this time did try to ban astrology but lots of Catholic orders still used it
www.academia.edu...
As far as the Vatican Obelisk is concerned, i don't have more material, but what doesn't make sense is having a pagan symbol in the Vatican back yard in the first place, aligned to Sirius.

I thought i would show the Dominicans next, Papal Bull Rome 22nd December 1216, Religiosam Vitam:-
en.wikipedia.org...
Ancient Greek day marker used, being previous sunset while Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris star was rising at location:-
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Astronomer62
a reply to: [post=25014734]Byrd[/post.
This doesn't make any sense, could you please show where i said that Epiphany was in September, obviously it is 6th January?
www.agos.com.tr...
You asked for any events in scriptures that were aligned to Sirius, the early church thought that the Birth, arrival of the three wise men, the first miracle of turning water into wine and Jesus's baptism were all on 6th January.

These events were not far from Bethlehem, and by Hebrew day start would happen at sunset on 5th January while Sirius was rising in the East.

Okay. Got it. And I can confirm it with other sources... however... these sources also say that the dates for these other events were moved in later church history (around 400 AD) www.catholicnewsagency.com...

Now... if these things really did have something to do with Sirius (which I doubt because there's no emphasis on it in early Church theology that I see), then the new dates should also reflect this.

Mirsilio Ficino who was slightly earlier than Calendar reform who was a Catholic Priest was heavily involved with Hermeticism, and many Popes did practice astrology of the period, as shown below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Quote from link below:-
"Emperors and popes became votaries of astrology-- the Emperors Charles IV and V, and Popes Sixtus IV, Julius II, Leo X, and Paul III. When these rulers lived astrology was, so to say, the regulator of official life; it is a fact characteristic of the age, that at the papal and imperial courts ambassadors were not received in audience until the court astrologer had been consulted."
www.newadvent.org...

However, in astrology, Sirius was not particularly significant. The planets were far more important, as was the sun and the relationships.

The Coptic Church in Egypt still uses a remnant of the old Egyptian Calendar.
www.copticchurch.net...

I'll grant that. But it's not based on Sirius.

As far as the Vatican Obelisk is concerned, i don't have more material, but what doesn't make sense is having a pagan symbol in the Vatican back yard in the first place, aligned to Sirius.

I have read that it's NOT aligned to Sirius... but is set up so that it can also be used as a sundial. Sundial makes sense frankly. Sirius doesn't.