'Christian Hypocrite' Conspiracy

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE I CHOOSE NOT TO...I DONT GO TO CHURCH BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO !... and stop blaming others for your own decisions

Hmmmmmm I though that's exactly what we are doing......though I do believe in a god. That''s not really the point of this thread...the point is....because we have made this choice, having those that believe differently...condemn judge, and at times even call us names....and in general act as they think they are better than others...not all mind you ..."some". The problem is others leaving those alone that do not believe as they do...they always feel the need to teach you someone you they think you should know, and then act as if you should change your mind about your faith because they have enlightened you, and get po'ed when you don't or question them on it

I have a theory:
Christians that are so noxious that they actively drive others away from the Christian faith are actually tools of the devil. They have been decieved by the devil into believing they are totally in the right and are 'doing God's will'......while in reality the devil is the one that profits by their words or actions.

If there is a 'conspiracy' it has been created by whatever force causes 'Christians ' to be hypocritical, or by those who pretend to be honest Christians so others will be fooled into trusting them....not by those who catch them in the act of being hypocritical or dishonest.......

While there are other hypocrites.....it stings more when you are cheated or lied to by a person who claims to be a Christian. ( you know to avoid a rattlesnake, but if he were able to disquise himself as a bunny rabbit he would be far more dangerous)

And I do not allow those hypocritical Christians to 'make my decision' for me concerning my faith.....I still have faith in God.....just not so much in man or any of man's churches....

And why do I let it concern me so much? I'm not so overly concerned, but some one always asks, - just like the author of this thread....I did not seek him out to tell him my opinion out of the blue.....

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE I CHOOSE NOT TO...I DONT GO TO CHURCH BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO !... and stop blaming others for your own decisions

Hmmmmmm I though that's exactly what we are doing......though I do believe in a god. That''s not really the point of this thread...the point is....because we have made this choice, having those that believe differently...condemn judge, and at times even call us names....and in general act as they think they are better than others...not all mind you ..."some". The problem is others leaving those alone that do not believe as they do...they always feel the need to teach you someone you they think you should know, and then act as if you should change your mind about your faith because they have enlightened you, and get po'ed when you don't or question them on it

i just wanted to make sure... lol... and yes most christians ( sad but true), do think they are better than others, specially Baptists and AOG... they even referred to others as "the unsaved", as if they ahd any kind of nasty desease....but taking the risk of beeing judgemental and sounding mean, i do not consider those people christians to start with...they may say they are, but thats not what Jesus was about... and i have to say ...i am not a Christian simply because i have many doubts about Jesus...thats the reason and not "selfrighteous greedy jealous hiporcitircal sunday church going locked mind people"... i think we are somewhere in the same page LadyV ( about this topic), i just dont express myself to good... i think./..

Originally posted by LadyV
he knows everything so he knew what all outcomes would be from the before creation. In the garden of Eden did he not ask, Adam and Eve where they were and why they were hiding their nakedness? There are many such incidences.

God knew where they were(physically and spiritually) at that point. He was asking so that they could own up to what they did. He wanted them to express in words what God already knew so that they, by expressing it, could realize what has happened. Before this they looked forward to spending time with God now they were hiding from them. What satan had promised wasn't true in fact the exact opposite happened.

The God of the Bible is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. So when anyone(christian or nonchristian) runs across something like this in the Bible, first thing to do is say OK God is omniscient so this can't mean God was trying to find where they were hiding, so there is a deeper thing here that I need to find out about.

Originally posted by dbrandt

God knew where they were(physically and spiritually) at that point. He was asking so that they could own up to what they did.

How do you know this?

Originally posted by Leveller
Well, following on from that, why did God create the serpent then? He would have known that the serpent was going to tempt Adam and Eve, he would have known that they would have failed. Why punish them for an outcome that he already knew about and even created.

Adam and Eve could have said "no, we are going to listen to what God has told us". They were placed in a perfect place and had everything they needed, so they do have responsibility for their actions. But they didn't say no and God knew about this already, so what's going on here. Obviously God has something bigger going on and something that is being worked out. I would have to search for the verses but I have heard others teach on this and what they have said is basically that when satan and other angels rebelled they were in essence saying "God you are wrong in how you do things and I could do things better". Now God could have squashed satan and put them in hell which was prepared for them. But would that have solved the problem. Or would the other angels,who remained faithful, been always wondering, "was there any truth to what satan said". God knows everything. Angels don't know everything and people know less than that. The Bible says they angels are looking into what's going on on earth.

So God is working something out to prove for ALL ETERNITY(emphasis only) that He knows what He is doing. Not so He can say boastingly "look at me I know everything so don't mess with me or you've had it". But "I am God, their are no other Gods there never will be. I alone know what can happen in all circumstances. I made you to live with me forever. I know what I'm doing, Trust Me"

Now people and angels have to realize this, we are not God, and as far as people, we are not angels. A person has to accept that fact. Could I just stroll up to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and get in to see the president. No. You can't do everything.

There is something big going on here, and if you are alive and reading this, guess what you are from the mind of God. He made you and has you penciled in as a very intregal part of His plan. And as far as the age we live in(between the resurrection of Christ and His return) it appears from what I read and study that people right now have an opportunity to be "like" God. Not that anyone will ever be GOD, but we will be "like" Him. That was part of satans lie that people can actually be GOD. satan wanted to actually be God. Another part was we can be "God" by doing anything we want. satan also knew this would break the bond between God and man because God cannot truly be with us as He wants because of our disobedience. God knows everything and He doesn't have to sin to know it causes problems. Adam and Eve din't know sin or what it does until they disobeyed. And then they didn't know right and wrong they did right and wrong. So by going through this life(with the ups and downs and learning how to respond to things and and seeking God) we are being transformed to be like God. Jesus after His resurrection could travel at the speed of thought and appear where He wanted to be. We will be able to do that. I know I don't want to sin anymore, I HATE it, because it hurts God, others and me. So this is another way we will be "like " God. We will know somethings that before creation God only knew, but now we will also know.

I hope I was able to express this in a way that is understandable. There is so much to look forward too with the God of the Bible. And remember the Bible has DEEP things in it that sometimes have to be searched for. It's kinda like a treasure hunt.

Christians are the biggest hypocrits...because they strive for the highest good...all the while living amongst the lowest form of evil.

If you run around saying you will do evil all day long, then it is easy to keep your word. If you strive for the best in life, and you are the most likely to be noticed when you fall short...hence the label hypocrit is hoisted readily forth on those who strive for the highest good and fail.

Then there's the real proof. How many American call them selves Christian? How many of these Christians MUST be viewing porn on a regular basis? How many of these Christians MUST believe in abortion, gay rights, nuking the middle east, etc? Many Christians....that's how many.

Statistics?

"76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian."

www.religioustolerance.org...

"There have been more than 32.5 million abortions in the twenty one years since the U.S. Supreme Court legalized unrestricted abortion on January 22, 1973"

www.euthanasia.com...

Christians are a sad bunch, but at least we try to be better...is it better to give up and openly claim evil as a lifestyle just to make the religion more attractive to the lost masses? Probably. That's why God says if you are "luke warm", He will "Spit You Out."

Originally posted by LadyV

To get back to the original topic here....it just seems to me, that there are a lot of Christians, that use that "we're forgiven", or "we all sin because we're human" bit as a justification "to" sin....

First of all you used the word seems, that would be judging from your part. Noone knows anothers heart but that person and God. I still make judgement calls on the actions I see others take and that's wrong. I have to and need to learn to not do this. I am responsible for my motives not theirs. While that tells me I shouldn't judge. If I see and know someone christian or nonchristian is having an affairfor ex. while married to another. That is wrong, I'm not judging, that is wrong and a sin aginst God first then others and yourself.

But if they say I can sin because I'm saved, they should wonder if they have even been saved at all. I know I don't want to hurt Jesus anymore than I already have. Because if you are saved God has literally come to live in your spirit and make it alive so that it can be sensitive to what is right and wrong. But if you have really accepted Christ that means HE NOW LIVES IN YOU. You now have the strength to say no to sin. Why do christians still sin, because of the temptations of the world, the flesh and believe it or not there is an enemy of mankind. It's not the Iranians, or the North Koreans, it is a being called satan and he has the ability to influence us to sin. satan can work through people who(knowingly or unknowingly) follow him. he is limited as to what he can do, he can only tempt us to sin, if we choose to give into the temptation, we are the ones who must own up to what we've done.

Originally posted by frayed1
I have a theory:
Christians that are so noxious that they actively drive others away from the Christian faith are actually tools of the devil. They have been decieved by the devil into believing they are totally in the right and are 'doing God's will'......while in reality the devil is the one that profits by their words or actions.

There is a parable that Jesus told about wheat and tares. Wheat is symbolic for real christians. Tares is symbolic for fake christians. Tares look exactly like wheat until harvest time. The wheat was sown by God and the tares were sown by satan to disrupt and cause division and probably to make christianity look stupid. But at harvest time the tares produced no grain. So if and that is a BIG IF, you see someone that is a hypocrite of christianity you could be right. But you have to know alot about christianity to be able to make that call.

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

i just wanted to make sure... lol... and yes most christians ( sad but true), do think they are better than others,

Can you define this a little more.

I am a christian and God loves you just as much as He loves me. He has no favorites. I am not any better than you.

dbrandt...all the things you say...is your belief but it does not mean it is true...yes, I say that a lot...but only because it always fits.....it is always Christians that "usually" do this... they state belief as if it is the absolute end all of truth..and it's not, it's what you believe. That you believe is great and I respect that.... I also know that we all sin, from every religious persuasion.....but it is the Christians that are always telling others that are not Christian that they are sinning because of that fact....so I'm sure you can see why we usually say it is hypocritical....leave others alone....if it's a mistake in your eyes, fine, but don't tell others to not sin while you do it yourself, and try to remember that we feel just as strongly about our own faith, we just don't push it others. In all truth, I feel that all religions are good to live by, if one actually follows it the way they are supposed to....but sadly, most don't. It's very hard for a non Christian to be preached at about sinning, from someone that sins all the time....can you understand that point? It's not that we/or I, think you should never sin...it's telling others to not do...what they do themselves. Why can't Christian stop telling other people to not sin or that they are sinning? Why is that so hard? I could never sit andd rink while telling someone else they shouldn't....you can not tell someone "do as I say, not as I do"....it just won't work!

Originally posted by LadyV
dbrandt...all the things you say...is your belief but it does not mean it is true...yes, I say that a lot...but only because it always fits.....it is always Christians that "usually" do this... they state belief as if it is the absolute end all of truth...... I also know that we all sin, from every religious persuasion..... I could never sit andd rink while telling someone else they shouldn't....you can not tell someone "do as I say, not as I do"....it just won't work!

A belief is something someone considers to be the truth. For me what Christ has done, I've have made a choice to believe.

A person who says they are christian and does not follow it up with his/her actions, literally has to question whether or not they meant it when they accepted Christ. You will get no argument from me that not everyone who says they are a christian is. So you need to in your own mind move them out of the category of christian and then don't use them to any longer guage the christian faith.

But, a for real christian will not be perfect this side of meeting Christ, so you cannot look for a christian who has reached perfection because you will never find one outside of Christs return, so you cannot guage christianity on this fact either.

A christian in a growing relationship with Jesus will sin less in frequency and intensity. I don't drink alcohol. I have before when i was younger but I don't think a christian should. It's a waste of time money and can put you into situations you shouldn't be in and even endanger your life and others. There are some who go to my church and do drink although I don't know how much. In my own mind I don't think they should but I have to leave that up to them and God. Maybe God hasn't dealt with them on that yet. But I can't let their drinking mess with me in the sense that I use it to judge them and place myself above them.

You said everyone from every religiuos persuasion sins(very true), so from your faith wiccan what does sin do and how is it dealt with?

As much as I hate to take credit, I must at this point. I am responsible for this thread. I am the one who has called saint and others hypocrits on numerous occasions. Aside from the fact that he is, and they are hypocrits, I want to explain why.

They lie every day to themselves and others. They make claims about the words of the bible for instance, that are not true. They call opinion fact, obstruct the progress of science, and generally bug the crap out of me. Much like Copernicus was afraid to issue his discoveries that the earth was not the center of the universe (because he knew they would kill him...such an accepting group huh?), people of today are afraid to embrace science in the same way. However, churches do things differently these days because they are not the law anymore like it was in the past THANK GOD!!! (There, I did it..). Instead of killing, they ex-communicate. Relatives, friends, or anyone else that disagrees with their horribly unintellectual nonsense. They preach and preach. Then the next day they contradict themselves. All Christians are hypocrits.

Sorry saint, they don't waste their time making statistics on rubbish like this. If you would like, I will go back through your threads if you provide them to me, and show you how many times you have contradicted yourself. For all those out there who are wondering how I am crazy enough to try and catch someone in doing something I don't know for sure he did in front of everyone, its simple. He is a christian. By law, he must be a hypocrit. I would take that to the bank.

So here is the deal. If I find one hypocritical statement in any of your posts, being that you are such a good example of a chrsitian saint, we should say the mattered is settled at a 100% hypocrit rate.

If I find one hypocritical statment in any of your posts, you stand up like a man... and start a new thread called "I am a hypocrit". In it you explain why.

Deal?

Originally posted by dbrandt


But, a for real christian will not be perfect this side of meeting Christ, so you cannot look for a christian who has reached perfection because you will never find one outside of Christs return, so you cannot guage christianity on this fact either.

I understand this and I don't....my point is that you can not preach don't sin if your not sin free....and no one is sin free...so why do some Christian do that? This keeps coming up so I must be not explaining it very well.....it's like telling someone to "do as I say and not as do"...it won't work

You said everyone from every religiuos persuasion sins(very true), so from your faith wiccan what does sin do and how is it dealt with?

We believe that what you do, comes back to you three/nine fold...if you steal or cheat someone out of x amount of money...you will somewhere lose that amount plus more whether it is stolen from you, you lose something...somewhere, some how....you will be paid back. We belive in reincarnation and living though each incarnation the best that we can, in order to be a better person and closer to the god force enitiy in the next incarnation...we try to be the best person we can be .
Thanks for aking

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by dbrandt

God knew where they were(physically and spiritually) at that point. He was asking so that they could own up to what they did.

How do you know this?

I see two questions here? God is omniscient, the Bible declares that about God so from reading the Bible is how I know this. So what you read in the Bible needs to be filtered through the fact that He's omniscient. So when we run across something that appears to"conflict" with what we already know, then we have run into verses that are going to require us to dig and dig for what's hidden.

As far as them owning up to it, that is probably one of many reasons God asked them. Human nature is to blame others, which is what they did, which makes us feel better, but they just like us are on a journey in life and truth must become part of us in order that we can change. They needed to admit they did wrong in order to know it was wrong. If you do something that's wrong yet think it's right you'll keep doing it. God was desiring that they see where they were at.

Now this is my imagination at work. I imagine when they walked with God before they knew where to meet Him and when. They probably looked forward to it and were there ahead of time. Now when God came down there was noone already there waiting for Him(He knew this I'm speaking from Adam and Eve's perspective) they were hiding from someone who the day before they longed to be with. Had God changed, no they did and God wanted them to know that. They were probably a little freaked out, satans promise of Godhood hadn't come about, plus now this death thing that God told them about was coming and they probably didn't understand all of what that would be about. They probably didn't understand death fully until they found Able's body lifeless and their other son Cain driven away from them, who knows if they ever saw him again. Until they knew in their hearts what they had done was wrong they couldn't begin to be "like" God which is what God is working out then and now and part of His plan for us from before He even made anything. God asked them where they were so that they could start to move away from this sin that was now apart of them.

Originally posted by LadyV
I understand this and I don't....my point is that you can not preach don't sin if your not sin free....and no one is sin free...so why do some Christian do that? This keeps coming up so I must be not explaining it very well.....it's like telling someone to "do as I say and not as do"...it won't work

That is why the one you look to, as the role model for christianity is Jesus Christ. He is the one who can give you the strength in your own life and leads and guides.

As far as christians, you get to know people and what their personalities are like and what you can expect of them and learn how they act. And then decide if this is someone I want to communicate with. God works with and through people to achieve some of His means. Other times it a one on one thing with a person and God.

People are always going to disappoint you at times. They are going to fall below your expectations at times. But God has chosen to on purpose have people be a vessel that He is using to bring about His purposes.

Jesus(God) is the only one who will never fail you. Does that mean you are going to understand everything He does or why He allows some things. You might right away, or you might not for 10 years, or maybe not until you are face to face with Him. But this is another of those things that you know and filter your life through this. God loves each individual, and is using everything to bring about a work in us and through us.

There is a guy at my church who gave a testimony one time about how He was rebellious and didn't want anything to do with God. He said there were christians He knew who would talk to Him about God and it irritated them that they bothered him with this stuff. He is in the construction trade and he said he moved to Maine and the first job he went to was to redue a school. When he went into the school he met the janitor. The janitor came up to him and introduced himself and then saved "Are you saved". He said he got home that night and thought to himself, "I moved 900 miles to get away from people like this and what happens the first person I meet is one of them." This and a book he was reading at the time, struck a cord in Him. So he said he sat down and just started talking(to God) and said something to the effect that God I can't get away from you, I don't know why but you won't leave me alone and so with what he knew from what he heard others say to him about this christian God he realized that there was a God and that he wanted me, why I don't know but He did. He said God had finally gotten his attention and he surrendered to Him through Christ and doesn't regret it.

Originally posted by dbrandt




But, a for real christian will not be perfect this side of meeting Christ, so you cannot look for a christian who has reached perfection because you will never find one outside of Christs return, so you cannot guage christianity on this fact either.

I realize and accept this.....I do not expect or require perfection......I object to those who hold the Bible in one hand and 'stab me in the back' with the other hand. I am dismayed at the frequency with which this happens.

I can understand a mistake, a slip, a careless word spoken in anger....but to 'choose' to lie to me.....to try to cheat me in a business situation....these things are thought out, choices of free will....not the accident of the spur of the moment situations.

Originally posted by LadyV
dbrandt...all the things you say...is your belief but it does not mean it is true...yes, I say that a lot...but only because it always fits.....it is always Christians that "usually" do this... they state belief as if it is the absolute end all of truth..and it's not, it's what you believe.

All mens truths are subjective, yet to every man The Truth is absolute.

I see this charge over and over again frm the exact same people, It seems to me that the biggest crime we christians commit is having faith. You can not have faith and feel that your fath may be wrong. It doesnt work like that. Either you believe or you don't, there is no tolerant uncertainty, Ether you have faith or you dont.

Originally posted by mwm1331
All mens truths are subjective, yet to every man The Truth is absolute.

I see this charge over and over again frm the exact same people, It seems to me that the biggest crime we christians commit is having faith. You can not have faith and feel that your fath may be wrong. It doesnt work like that. Either you believe or you don't, there is no tolerant uncertainty, Ether you have faith or you dont.

Faith is OK, but on it's own it stagnates. And that's a big problem.
Most Christians I know, have Faith but they never question it. They sit back and state they are happy with it, even though they know nothing about it. It doesn't evolve.
That in itself is a hypocrisy. Christians will always state that their Faith is a knowledge, yet they never show any desire to learn about it. They'll swallow a dogma and sit on it and woe betide anyone else who can see the dogma for what it is and question it.

There may be a claim of no tolerant uncertainty about an actual Faith in God Himself, but it is a lie. Anyone with a logical mind can see that there is uncertainty surrounding religion itself. Christians don't want to see this uncertainty. They are too frightened that it will tarnish their Faith. To me, that shows that they do have uncertainty.
If they were truly comfortable with their God, they wouldn't have to defend or promote the religion. They would know that God is not religion and that it doesn't matter what happens to the religion, God will always be there.
Most Christians don't have Faith in God, they have Faith in the religion. That's a totally different thing.

Leveler If you have any doubt what so ever tht Jesus was the son of God, died on the cross to forgve us our sins, , and was ressurected, then no, you dont have faith.
Doubt and faith are mutually exclusive.
Either you have faith or you don't.
To say well I believe it but I can't say its true objectively then you dont have faith.
Unless you accept it uncodtonally and totally you dont have faith.
To say I believe in jesus but then again I could be wrong, s to show that you dont have faith.
Either you have faith or you don't, there is no middle ground.