'Christian Hypocrite' Conspiracy

Originally posted by mwm1331
Leveler If you have any doubt what so ever tht Jesus was the son of God, died on the cross to forgve us our sins, , and was ressurected, then no, you dont have faith.
Doubt and faith are mutually exclusive.
Either you have faith or you don't.
To say well I believe it but I can't say its true objectively then you dont have faith.
Unless you accept it uncodtonally and totally you dont have faith.

There are more things to have faith in than the supposed son Of God. To make such a statement is inane. All you are doing is stressing YOUR beliefs here, nothing more. But that doesn't mean that is right for everyone else.

Also, doubt and faith are mutually inclusive. Having doubt makes your faith all that much stronger. Where would we be without people questioning their faith? Once again, all you are doing is saying YOU have blind faith, you, not others. Why are you so concerned about someones elses faith? Faith comes in all shapes and sizes. Faith does not only = God or Jesus, it is whatever your or I choose to have faith in.

Originally posted by Seapeople
As much as I hate to take credit, I must at this point. I am responsible for this thread. I am the one who has called saint and others hypocrits on numerous occasions. Aside from the fact that he is, and they are hypocrits, I want to explain why.

I am sorry if I made this thread seem this way, but it wasn't directed at anyone in particular since there were a good number of people who've stated this. I wasn't thinking of individuals, rather several making this claim.

Originally posted by Seapeople
They lie every day to themselves and others.

Huh? How so?

Originally posted by Seapeople
They make claims about the words of the bible for instance, that are not true.

Again, this is something we'd need to look at with specific examples.

Originally posted by Seapeople
They call opinion fact,

I try to make clear the distinction of what is written and what I think. I know a lot of people (including myself on occasion) who blend the two without recognizing it.

Originally posted by Seapeople
obstruct the progress of science,

I worked to advance it for as long as I could in the field I was in. I left for very personal reasons, not Biblical. I have to say I'm surprised that most people think there are no Christians in science.

Originally posted by Seapeople
and generally bug the crap out of me.

Alright, that's fair. I know there are "Christians" (notice the quotes) who bother me. If I've done so, it certainly was not my intent.

Originally posted by Seapeople
Much like Copernicus was afraid to issue his discoveries that the earth was not the center of the universe (because he knew they would kill him...such an accepting group huh?),

I think Galileo ran into similar trouble too. Clearly this is wrong. I thought it had more to do with power of the Catholic Church at the time than God. Could be wrong though and would like to discuss more on the topic sometime.

Originally posted by Seapeople
people of today are afraid to embrace science in the same way.

*hugs science* There's still a special place in my heart for it though I don't do research in the field these days.

Originally posted by Seapeople
However, churches do things differently these days because they are not the law anymore like it was in the past THANK GOD!!! (There, I did it..).

I can agree and think Jesus would too. Jesus demonstrated what happens when a theocracy rules. They get bent on the law and power, completely missing the point.

Originally posted by Seapeople
Instead of killing, they ex-communicate. Relatives, friends, or anyone else that disagrees

All these things are clearly wrong *nods*. In some battles it looks like we're on the same side.

Originally posted by Seapeople
with their horribly unintellectual nonsense.

except for statments like this one.

Originally posted by Seapeople
They preach and preach.

The only ones you hear about are the 'preachy' persons. I agree that if you're interested there should be a conversation. I've never heard of a 'forced conversion of the heart'.

Originally posted by Seapeople
Then the next day they contradict themselves. All Christians are hypocrits.

All huh? Hm....

Originally posted by Seapeople
Sorry saint, they don't waste their time making statistics on rubbish like this. If you would like, I will go back through your threads if you provide them to me, and show you how many times you have contradicted yourself.

I'll stand accused. If you consider me a friend then please do me the favor of showing me my inconsistencies so that I can admit my wrongs and grow to become a better person. I'm not afraid of being called wrong. I've been wrong about things in the past and will be wrong about things in the future. Bearing in mind though, through this journey I've acquired a lot of things that are right.

Originally posted by Seapeople
For all those out there who are wondering how I am crazy enough to try and catch someone in doing something I don't know for sure he did in front of everyone, its simple. He is a christian. By law, he must be a hypocrit. I would take that to the bank.

So here is the deal. If I find one hypocritical statement in any of your posts, being that you are such a good example of a chrsitian saint, we should say the mattered is settled at a 100% hypocrit rate.

Please provide the statistics to support this conclusive percentage for there is no percentage without the math to validate it.

Originally posted by Seapeople
If I find one hypocritical statment in any of your posts, you stand up like a man... and start a new thread called "I am a hypocrit". In it you explain why.

Maybe we're seeing two different definitions? As originally posted, I talked about people who say one thing then do another as a practice. If that's true to where I've said I do not do it and yet do then yes I'm a hypocrite. If I am, I need to come forward and state such. If I've made a mistake, or sinned in an instance as I claim to do now and then, then should not the title say 'I have sinned' or 'I have made a mistake'? I deny neither and can make a post stating such.

Originally posted by Seapeople
Deal?

Per above I'll state that which is true and begin a thread saying so if this will in some way help anyone.

Look the only beef i have with christians is their blind faith. They blindly follow in their religion without questioning it at all, a fool does not question their faith.
I will accept any christian arguements after that christian has atleast did abit of research and reading on other religions. How can you be so sure your right when you dont know the competition?
If you were going to buy a car, and you only saw an ad for one car lets say a ford. When you go to the carshop, you will buy a ford because you dont know what else there is, so the ford might not be the best car, but you still get it. All i want christians to do is look at more ads.......
I hope i explained myself right.

faith

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

Originally posted by mwm1331
faith
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

Based on the first entry you have listed for faith, you contradicted yourself yet again. You said if you did not have faith that Jesus died for your sins and all this unconditional mumbojumbo than a person did not have faith. But faith isn't only about your God or his supposed son now is it?

Based on line 2 of your post you are admitting that Christians are illogical? So why is it not okay then for me or anyone else to believe what we choose as well? Faith in something other than the Christian God?

Faith can simply be a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny. It is not exclusive to your God and your religion. But then again, someone said they do not even care what someone else says about it. Everyone else must be wrong, and ignorant.



[edit on 3/9/2005 by bobafett1972]

Of course faith is illogical Boba fett.
Thats why they dont call it reason.
And faith has many meanings not all religous.
However The religous meaning of faith is the second defintion, the one I highlighted.

So just like people had faith in G.W. without logical proof and material evidence of wmd's in iraq?
My point faith can be wrong, just because someone has faith doesnt mean what he has faith in is right.

Originally posted by wang
Look the only beef i have with christians is their blind faith.

To a Christian, they've received their 'proofs' so to them it isn't 'blind' faith at all.

Originally posted by wang
They blindly follow in their religion without questioning it at all,

I think this a perspective thing. I can understand why people who aren't Christian see it as 'blind'.

Originally posted by wang
a fool does not question their faith.

I can agree with that.

Originally posted by wang
I will accept any christian arguements after that christian has atleast did abit of research and reading on other religions.

That sounds fair. I have and am willing to do additional research (see my discussion on Clement of Rome as an example on ATS). How can a Christian ask someone to read the Bible if they are unwilling to read about other religions? I'm asking because I don't know.

Originally posted by wang
How can you be so sure your right when you dont know the competition?
If you were going to buy a car, and you only saw an ad for one car lets say a ford. When you go to the carshop, you will buy a ford because you dont know what else there is, so the ford might not be the best car, but you still get it. All i want christians to do is look at more ads.......
I hope i explained myself right.

Sure. Sounds like a good idea . I don't want to be that uninformed consumer.

[edit on 9-3-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by wang
So just like people had faith in G.W. without logical proof and material evidence of wmd's in iraq?

Boy am I glad I don't worship G.W.

Originally posted by wang
My point faith can be wrong, just because someone has faith doesnt mean what he has faith in is right.

You're right, faith can be wrong which is why I don't arbitrarily throw it around. It needs to be right consistently for me to believe.

It's funny how many people actually condemn Christianity when they themselves don't understand what Christianity is all about. They do not know the "meaning of life" yet. They are searching though. If they werent they wouldn't be taking their time to "try" to "bash" Christianity in the first place. I think that it's insecurity and ignorance that plays out in a negative way instead of a positive way. It's almost like listening to a movie ticket holder talk about nannophysics ? They will never understand till they allow the Spirit of God to dwell in their own hearts and lives. Why don't they ? It's nothing more than a serious problem with pride. It's very simple, they the unbelievers want to be the God of their own lives and do what ever they want whenever they want. Gods law is stated in the Ten Commandments. We are all condemmed by the law because knowone is perfect. We all sin and are doomed to hell by the law.

God's redemption was Jesus Christ ? Don't you think a man of many documented miracles and healings could have come down off that cross and destroyed everyone if he wanted too ? Of course ! very easily. But His Father scarificed His own son by making him live on earth in human form (which was documented in the old testement many hundred of years prior ) like us and have to go through each and every pain that we went through in our own life. Such as , regection which was number one, temptations which he was able to to turn his back too, through the help of the same Holy Spirit that can live in us if we allow him too.

You will never know till you come to terms in your own life, that you are not in charge of your own destiny. There was creator. Even secular humanistic scientists are realizing that their so called theories just don't hold any water any longer with the proof and evidence that's coming from the bible and testing it with modern technology. It's great ! It's interesting and fun ! And it won't cost you your life ! You have absolutely nothing to lose and a whole new world to gain !

Hope you find the truth.

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It's funny how many people actually condemn Christianity when they themselves don't understand what Christianity is all about. They do not know the "meaning of life" yet. They are searching though. If they werent they wouldn't be taking their time to "try" to "bash" Christianity in the first place. I think that it's insecurity and ignorance that plays out in a negative way instead of a positive way. It's almost like listening to a movie ticket holder talk about nannophysics ? They will never understand till they allow the Spirit of God to dwell in their own hearts and lives. Why don't they ?

Wow, that's exactly what Neo-Jesus says in my signature.

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It's funny how many people actually condemn Christianity when they themselves don't understand what Christianity is all about. They do not know the "meaning of life" yet. They are searching though. If they werent they wouldn't be taking their time to "try" to "bash" Christianity in the first place. I think that it's insecurity and ignorance that plays out in a negative way instead of a positive way. It's almost like listening to a movie ticket holder talk about nannophysics ? They will never understand till they allow the Spirit of God to dwell in their own hearts and lives. Why don't they ? It's nothing more than a serious problem with pride. It's very simple, they the unbelievers want to be the God of their own lives and do what ever they want whenever they want. Gods law is stated in the Ten Commandments. We are all condemmed by the law because knowone is perfect. We all sin and are doomed to hell by the law.

God's redemption was Jesus Christ ? Don't you think a man of many documented miracles and healings could have come down off that cross and destroyed everyone if he wanted too ? Of course ! very easily. But His Father scarificed His own son by making him live on earth in human form (which was documented in the old testement many hundred of years prior ) like us and have to go through each and every pain that we went through in our own life. Such as , regection which was number one, temptations which he was able to to turn his back too, through the help of the same Holy Spirit that can live in us if we allow him too.

You will never know till you come to terms in your own life, that you are not in charge of your own destiny. There was creator. Even secular humanistic scientists are realizing that their so called theories just don't hold any water any longer with the proof and evidence that's coming from the bible and testing it with modern technology. It's great ! It's interesting and fun ! And it won't cost you your life ! You have absolutely nothing to lose and a whole new world to gain !

Hope you find the truth.

Wow. I understand Truthisoutthere's intentions were good, but there are a few dangerous things I'd like to point out here.

First, to fill in my background before people start claiming I don't konw what I'm talking about, I'd like to say that I grew up around Nashville, Tennessee, the proverbial buckle of the Bible belt as a highly churched person (read three times a week at the Methodist Church) up until college. My ideas today are influenced more by Buddhism than anything else, but I would also describe myself as a Christian.

This Bible-belt variety of Christianity places a large emphasis on the Bible. If a person that had never heard anything about occidental culture or religion encountered the bible (unlike many of the followers of US churches who are indoctrinated with brain washing Sunday school lessons), its reality would be obvious. The Bible is a book. This is the fact that we can all agree on: believers and non-believers, we all believe that. Books contain words (which have changed among languages and translations), and to make any meaning we have to interpret them.

Historically, the dominant interpretations were that the Bible explained the universe, in terms we can never verify (thus, the leap of faith many non-believers view as folly), and then tells us that we are doomed to hell for eternity if we don't listen. When phrased this way, it shouldn't be difficult for a believer to understand why someone might hesitate to convert in spite of promises of eternal life.

Add in 2,000 years of the powerful Church as a sociopolitical force, and its not difficult to understand why so many Christians never really question their ideaologies. By marching forward absolutely sure of their interpretation (and often calling that "faith"), Christians that don't think for themselves are quick to apply their morals onto others, which is a dangerous moment when morals turn into politics.

I think the reason that non-fundamentalist Christians have a grudge against many fundamentalist Christians is that the "moral" issues addressed in the church gain political support. Morals are incredibly personal issues of conscience, and Christians cannot force other people to accept their moral codes in an act of politics.

These are the same problems I have with my Brother or Sister, Truthisoutthere's entry. By speaking of the "non-believers" as a group of people that all operates the same way, we enter into an imaginary world where the lines are so clear cut, and Truthisoutthere's truth is absolutely right for everyone on the planet. Only God is absolutely right, and the only person who ever pretended that position in the Bible was Satan.

Ultimately a person will decide to interpret the Bible (that book, remember?) and integrate their interpretation into their system of ethics, or discard it all together. Either of these thought out decisions is ethically superior to mindlessly following the herd. The blind believer that never questions his beliefs is the least moral of all, morals aren't driven by "the law"--morals are about conscience and sacrifice of the ego. If such an immoral person, think themselves moral, begins then to proscribe his or her religious "law" on others.... well, you can see where the hypocrite image comes from.

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
It's funny how many people actually condemn Christianity when they themselves don't understand what Christianity is all about. They do not know the "meaning of life" yet. They are searching though. If they werent they wouldn't be taking their time to "try" to "bash" Christianity in the first place. I think that it's insecurity and ignorance that plays out in a negative way instead of a positive way.

WoW!! Makes me want to run back into the arms of Jesus!.

Not really. Having been a Christian I think I know what I am talking about. The meaning of life? Nope I do not know what it is, but chances are neither do you. Or maybe, just maybe everyone has a different view as to what the meaning of life actually is?

Bashing? I do not bash Christianity. Someone speaking out against Christianity or anything for that matter doesn't mean they are bashing it. Insecurity? Ignorance? Not in a million years. I voice my point of view from my life experiences not out of ignorance or insecurities. I would never condemn someone for their religion or beliefs. But, on the other hand, Christians I know do in fact condemn those who do not hold their beliefs or values...

Well saint4God you have a good point here. Most christians are in fact hypocrites. I'm also interested in statistics like fake christians VS real ones. Anyway I'll give the Bible this credit, it does admit that most (or at least a large number) of it's followers are fakes: "Many are called but few are chosen".

Did I here you right ?? My ideas today are influenced more by Buddhism than anything else, but I would also describe myself as a Christian.

You cannot beleive in Both my friend. It's either or. Or as God would say: He is the ONLY way to everlasting life.

I am not condeming you in anyway shape or form. And I am not judgeing you. Only God can do that. As a matter of fact I liked what you had to say in other columns but once I read your reply I looked a little closer and saw the painting on the wall so to speak. Lets continue below please.

Originally posted by PeaceBeWithYou

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere

It's funny how many people actually condemn Christianity when they themselves don't understand what Christianity is all about. They do not know the "meaning of life" yet. They are searching though. If they werent they wouldn't be taking their time to "try" to "bash" Christianity in the first place. I think that it's insecurity and ignorance that plays out in a negative way instead of a positive way. It's almost like listening to a movie ticket holder talk about nannophysics ? They will never understand till they allow the Spirit of God to dwell in their own hearts and lives. Why don't they ? It's nothing more than a serious problem with pride. It's very simple, they the unbelievers want to be the God of their own lives and do what ever they want whenever they want. Gods law is stated in the Ten Commandments. We are all condemmed by the law because knowone is perfect. We all sin and are doomed to hell by the law.

God's redemption was Jesus Christ ? Don't you think a man of many documented miracles and healings could have come down off that cross and destroyed everyone if he wanted too ? Of course ! very easily. But His Father scarificed His own son by making him live on earth in human form (which was documented in the old testement many hundred of years prior ) like us and have to go through each and every pain that we went through in our own life. Such as , regection which was number one, temptations which he was able to to turn his back too, through the help of the same Holy Spirit that can live in us if we allow him too.

You will never know till you come to terms in your own life, that you are not in charge of your own destiny. There was creator. Even secular humanistic scientists are realizing that their so called theories just don't hold any water any longer with the proof and evidence that's coming from the bible and testing it with modern technology. It's great ! It's interesting and fun ! And it won't cost you your life ! You have absolutely nothing to lose and a whole new world to gain !

Hope you find the truth.

Wow. I understand Truthisoutthere's intentions were good, but there are a few dangerous things I'd like to point out here.

They are not my intensions at all I am sorry: They are Gods Words.

First, to fill in my background before people start claiming I don't konw what I'm talking about, I'd like to say that I grew up around Nashville, Tennessee, the proverbial buckle of the Bible belt as a highly churched person (read three times a week at the Methodist Church) up until college. My ideas today are influenced more by Buddhism than anything else, but I would also describe myself as a Christian.

So far in the statement above you did not say if you were a christian or not ? Living in Tennessee and reading the bible a couple times a week does not make you a christian. They are plenty of preachers out there that have never received Christ into there heart, therefore preaching as you say
" with brain washing Sunday school lessons), its reality would be obvious. The Bible is a book. " If you truly read the bible in it's intireity you would not be saying that it's just a book.

This is the fact that we can all agree on: believers and non-believers, we all believe that. Books contain words (which have changed among languages and translations),

"and to make any meaning we have to interpret them." And what's wrong with reading and interpertations ? Do you not think that we as humans cannot interpret correctly ? And NO. it has not changed. What has changed ?

This Bible-belt variety of Christianity places a large emphasis on the Bible.

What exactly do you mean the Bible Belt variety of a christian ? This makes no sense. Please expand.


"Historically, the dominant interpretations were that the Bible explained the universe, in terms we can never verify"

Have you studied creationism related to physics ? Please do yourself a big favor and look into this. If you need help finding these books, I can recommend a few.

"(thus, the leap of faith many non-believers view as folly), and then tells us that we are doomed to hell for eternity if we don't listen. "

Who's telling you this ? that you are going to hell if you don't listen ? It's alot more to being a christian than listening.

"When phrased this way, it shouldn't be difficult for a believer to understand why someone might hesitate to convert in spite of promises of eternal life."

God said your going to hell if you don't beleive that He is the trinity. He is God and ONLY God that created this earth. He is also the Jesus whom walked this earth and parted miracles upon His people. He is also the Holy Spirit whom He left behind for us to help stay clear of sin, heal his people etc... and adhere to His laws, and principals so that you may stay on the path of righteousness.

"Add in 2,000 years of the powerful Church as a sociopolitical force, and its not difficult to understand why so many Christians never really question their ideaologies. "

Idealogies. Hmmmm. If you are a christian you have the Word of God which is the manual for life. You also have a Historical book with facts. Your so called idealogies as you would call them should come from the Word of God not even a preachers ideas. As a matter of fact God tells christians to test the spirit which means " Check out what the preacher is saying ". Is it consistant with the nature of God ? Or does it sound like something that came from man. The only way a christain would know this, is that if he was reading Gods Word and applying it to his life. " See there is alot more to being a christain than going to church your whole life and reading a few scriptures.

By marching forward absolutely sure of their interpretation (and often calling that "faith"), Christians that don't think for themselves are quick to apply their morals onto others, which is a dangerous moment when morals turn into politics.

Need not say anything about this. The above paragraph just reinforces what I just said about looking into it themsleves.

"I think the reason that non-fundamentalist Christians have a grudge against many fundamentalist Christians is that the "moral" issues addressed in the church gain political support. Morals are incredibly personal issues of conscience, and Christians cannot force other people to accept their moral codes in an act of politics. "

We should only be adhearing to Gods morals not mans. I think that you are being very judgemental because we christians are not forcing you to beleive in our moral codes but GODS !!!!!!!!!!! And we are not forcing but telling the truth. Do you know what happens everytime we get rid of one more of Gods morals in our lives. People get raped, murderd, shot in school, stabbed, kids killing kids, should I go on ?

"These are the same problems I have with my Brother or Sister, Truthisoutthere's entry. By speaking of the "non-believers" as a group of people that all operates the same way, we enter into an imaginary world where the lines are so clear cut, and Truthisoutthere's truth is absolutely right for everyone on the planet. Only God is absolutely right, and the only person who ever pretended that position in the Bible was Satan."

Like I said, GOD sets the parameters in our lives not the christains or anyone else.



Ultimately a person will decide to interpret the Bible (that book, remember?) and integrate their interpretation into their system of ethics, or discard it all together. Either of these thought out decisions is ethically superior to mindlessly following the herd. The blind believer that never questions his beliefs is the least moral of all, morals aren't driven by "the law"--morals are about conscience and sacrifice of the ego. If such an immoral person, think themselves moral, begins then to proscribe his or her religious "law" on others.... well, you can see where the hypocrite image comes from.

Well said but we are not bound to our own idealogical, ethical views anyway but GODS. Please read the bible before quoting you know what it says.

Take Care and Good Reading. Because only a blind non-beleiver would make such unrational statements.

My father goes for rep. and business, and my brother goes their to "shop" and "buy" a new gf to do him, if ya' know what I mean. Me, by practice, I prayed to God to lead me to where I go to learn stuff. I pray, I try to improve, but who knows? I just know I don't believe in breaking any moral code of my own, unless Life and Death is an issue at hand.

Originally posted by ufo_believer
Well saint4God you have a good point here.

Thanks!

Originally posted by ufo_believer
Most christians are in fact hypocrites.

Again, wondering where the 'most' number is coming from.

Originally posted by ufo_believer
I'm also interested in statistics like fake christians VS real ones.

Me too. I'm surprised I haven't had any takers yet.

Originally posted by ufo_believer
Anyway I'll give the Bible this credit, it does admit that most (or at least a large number) of it's followers are fakes: "Many are called but few are chosen".

The Bible does speak out a lot about hypocrisy. We're warned not to be this way by Jesus himself numerous times. It's in the Book. My question to the quote you've presented is: Are Christians the ones who are "called" or those who are "chosen"?

[edit on 28-3-2005 by saint4God]

A few are called..........

Quote//The Parable of the Wedding Feast
A Homily on St. Matt. 22:1-14

from the twenty-second chapter of St. Matthew,
are comprised of one of Christ's parables,
that in which He compares the Kingdom of Heaven to a great marriage feast. Christ says that "The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a certain King, which made a marriage for his son.;

The King, we are told, sent forth his servants to invite certain people to the wedding feast,
but none responded at all.
The King sent his servants a second time, and this time the servants told those invited of the wonderful things that had been prepared for the feast. Again, however, no one came, but instead the people gave excuses that they were too busy with the farm and with business to attend the feast. Then some of these men even seized hold of the servants and murdered them.
The infuriated King, quite understandably, sent his army to punish and destroy the murderers. The King then sent his servants out into the highways to bring in strangers, so that there would be guests for the wedding and the feast.

www.orthodoxinfo.com...

What is in this parable ?

Christ ends His parable with the dictum, "Many are called, but few are chosen." St. Paul tells us that God desires that all men be saved. God loves every human being with the same intensity of love,
and wishes that all may come to him.
So, many are called.
However, it is in the very nature of God's Glory that only those who have purified themselves and acquired selfless love may spend eternity with Him, may, so to speak, partake of the eternal feast.

QUOTE// The Bible does speak out a lot about hypocrisy. We're warned not to be this way by Jesus himself numerous times. It's in the Book. My question to the quote you've presented is: Are Christians the ones who are "called" or those who are "chosen"?

[edit on 28-3-2005 by saint4God]

All are called.......The Bible teaches that only he who follows Jesus can reach His Kingdom. But how can one follow Him? Hear what our Savior says about this: Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me (Mark 8:34).
The words whoever desires mean that Christ does not compel anyone to follow Him. He has no need of the unwilling ones, but He desires that each person freely follow Him.
Sometimes the path leading to Paradise may become narrow, steep and overgrown with bushes, whereas other paths may seem wider and easier to travel. It is very important not to stray from the correct path. The Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles repeatedly warned that there is but one path that leads to the Kingdom of Heaven, the one given in the Gospel. All others, especially the wide and comfortable ones, lead to perdition.

Let us now examine more closely the path indicated to us by our Lord Jesus Christ. He said: Whoever desires to come after Me must:

Deny himself

Take up his cross

Follow Me

Thus, a follower of Christ must begin by denying himself.
This means that you must disown all bad habits, free your heart from sinful bonds (like hunger for money, luxury, fame, power over others, etc.), squelch impure thoughts, harbor no lustful desires, distance yourself from situations leading to sin,
and, in general, do nothing because of stubbornness or ego but do all for the love of God and with the desire to contribute to the glory of His Holy Name. In other words, to deny yourself is to be dead indeed to sin but alive to God, as St. Paul has explained in Rom. 6:11.

Then, it is necessary for a disciple and follower of Christ to take up his cross. The cross means the various difficulties and sorrows associated with a Christian life.
Crosses may be external as well as internal.
To take up your cross means to tolerate everything without complaining, regardless of how unpleasant things might become.
For example, if someone has insulted you or laughed at you or provoked you, bear it all without anger or resentment. Similarly, if you helped someone and he,
instead of showing gratitude,
made up deceitful tales about you or if you wanted to do something good but were unable to accomplish it, bear it without despondency.
Did some misfortune befall you?
Did someone in your family become ill, or despite all your efforts and tireless labor did you repeatedly suffer failure? Has some other thing or person oppressed you? Bear all with patience in the name of Jesus Christ. Do not consider yourself punished unjustly, but accept everything as your cross.

www.orthodoxinfo.com...

I know this is alot to read ...........

Psalms 51

1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions....



Yes, sometimes Christians can be hard headed .....I can only speak for myself....NOT because I dont love Christ , but because it it easier to travel the wide road and make life easier for myself.....and knowing fully it is wrong ......I fall and get myself up again....STRUGGLE is what life is about.....but not all are made perfect and God knows this......that is why to be a Christian one must know that man is not perfect and Christ knows this......and seek Christ
Quote//“Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest”? (Matt. 11:28).
And, “Him that cometh to Me, I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37)?

“Fear not.” They know they are weak, but they depend on His strength. They sin, but grieve over every lapse. The never feel they have attained, but constantly press on toward their goal (Phil. 3:14).


. The Lord said to His disciples: "When ye shall have done all these things which are commanded you, say,
We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do" (Luke 17:10).
The Apostle Paul says: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:8-10). (4)

Saint Paul writes, 'I know of nothing against myself,
yet I am not justified by this' (1 Cor. 4:4).
You see he does not exalt himself,
but humbles and abases himself in every way, and that just when he had reached the summit.
And the Three Children were in the fire,
in the midst of the furnace,
and what did they say?
'For we have sinned and transgressed by departing from You; and we have done evil in every way' (Dan. 3:29).
This is what it is to have a contrite heart.
St. John Chrysostom


reading and spiritual knowledge are good,
but only when they lead to greater humility... St. Peter of Damaskos (Book 1: A Treasury of Divine Knowledge, The Philokalia Vol. 3 pg. 169)

www.orthodox.net...


ok...sorry for this long post......
helen.




[edit on 3/28/2005 by helen670]

Originally posted by helen670
However, it is in the very nature of God's Glory that only those who have purified themselves and acquired selfless love may spend eternity with Him, may, so to speak, partake of the eternal feast.

I'm a little confused as to this answer. How do you enter eternity with God? How do you prurify yourself?

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by helen670
However, it is in the very nature of God's Glory that only those who have purified themselves and acquired selfless love may spend eternity with Him, may, so to speak, partake of the eternal feast.

I'm a little confused as to this answer. How do you enter eternity with God? How do you prurify yourself?

Hey!
yeh sorry, i edit the above...hopefully theres an answer their for you....
helen.....
sorry for the long thread....