What is Actually Happening in the United States Which Was Predicted 35 Years Ago.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

The truth is that even illegal immigrants reduce the serious crime rate by diluting the criminal population of the US in a small way.

LMAO maybe stick to your own countries politics, you're way out of your depth here and that statement makes it clear. So much stupid.

I am resident on the same planet as Americans and this is an international forum. I have just as much right to talk about US politics as you are to talk about mine. Live with it.

What is stupid is people who are so fearful about pointing out that a country is failing in its humanitarian duties because they fear repercussions from their fellow citizens who will accuse them of being 'unpatriotic'.

When the emperor stands before the world nakedly lying, saying stupid stuff and repeatedly failing in diplomacy, I can fearlessly point it out.

As someone from from another country, the social pressures don't work on me at all. I can talk freely and express what you are afraid to say.

It's all right. No need to thank me.

a reply to: chr0naut

ATS where you can only have a opinion if you are American.

Its a sad state when your thoughts are being ridiculed because of where you live/come from

"Why don’t they (chr0naut) go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came", seems to be trickle down thoughts work better than trickle down economics

a reply to: chr0naut

Why would anyone rationally believe some random internet voice above the official figures? Do random individuals on the internet have departments that collect statistics and measure departmental efficiency performance?

You're missing the point. It is you that is believing poll data over the actual dollars and cents paid out for reimbursement. One is absolute, hard data, the other has a margin of error and confidence interval.

a reply to: chr0naut

I am resident on the same planet as Americans and this is an international forum. I have just as much right to talk about US politics as you are to talk about mine. Live with it.

Oh, you can go right on ahead and post about whatever you like. 'When a fool opens his mouth, let him speak that all will know him to be.'

It was just some wisdom and an olive branch to allow a graceful exit for yourself, you certainly don't have to take it.

What is stupid is people who are so fearful about pointing out that a country is failing in its humanitarian duties because they fear repercussions from their fellow citizens who will accuse them of being 'unpatriotic'.

What are you even talking about...? More foreign ignorance of american culture. Not surprising, really.

When the emperor stands before the world nakedly lying, saying stupid stuff and repeatedly failing in diplomacy, I can fearlessly point it out.

Pray tell, what diplomacy has failed? Before you answer, consider strategic objectives of the US. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath.

As someone from from another country, the social pressures don't work on me at all. I can talk freely and express what you are afraid to say.

Ahhh yes, the old "americans are afraid to speak their minds" trope... wait that's not a thing....

Your ignorance seems limitless! Please continue to enlighten us!

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

Why would anyone rationally believe some random internet voice above the official figures? Do random individuals on the internet have departments that collect statistics and measure departmental efficiency performance?

You're missing the point. It is you that is believing poll data

I is, is I?

over the actual dollars and cents paid out for reimbursement. One is absolute, hard data, the other has a margin of error and confidence interval.

I didn't quote any poll data at all.

The issue was about if immigrants committed more crime than citizens. No one was polled about that because opinions would not matter as much as hard crime and migration statistics, which are freely available from a number of authoritative sources.

It is the anti-immigrant lobby who, for justification of their opinion, usually quote other opinion pieces which take the instance of a few actual crimes and then conflate that to entire communities, making appeals that, while they are highly emotional, are a misrepresentation of the truth.

a reply to: chr0naut

The issue was about if immigrants committed more crime than citizens.

No the issue was about if illegal immigrants and refugees commit more crime than citizens.

a reply to: chr0naut

Right, and what happened to the native population? Great argument for strong anti-illegal immigration policy. Great self pwn there.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

I am resident on the same planet as Americans and this is an international forum. I have just as much right to talk about US politics as you are to talk about mine. Live with it.

Oh, you can go right on ahead and post about whatever you like. 'When a fool opens his mouth, let him speak that all will know him to be.'

Or, more aptly, because it is ATS, one might write about a fool typing out a post.

It was just some wisdom and an olive branch to allow a graceful exit for yourself, you certainly don't have to take it.

Oh, I'm sorry, I entirely missed that it was wisdom, but I do like olives. For some reason they seem to perfectly compliment fortified red wine and cheeses.

What is stupid is people who are so fearful about pointing out that a country is failing in its humanitarian duties because they fear repercussions from their fellow citizens who will accuse them of being 'unpatriotic'.

What are you even talking about...? More foreign ignorance of american culture. Not surprising, really.

American culture is broadcast in vivid color, across the world, with volume and repetition. I don't think anyone from other lands (especially English speaking lands) has any confusion about it.

We call them "loud Americans" for a reason.

When the emperor stands before the world nakedly lying, saying stupid stuff and repeatedly failing in diplomacy, I can fearlessly point it out.

Pray tell, what diplomacy has failed? Before you answer, consider strategic objectives of the US. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath.

Well;

Has Trump stopped little Kim from building nuclear weapons or lobbing the missiles to carry them across the sea? Nope.

Did Trump negotiate to fund his wall without damaging all other government funding? Was the government shutdown an instance of good diplomacy? Nope.

Has his re-write of the affordable health act actually done much different than the original one? Is it a totally new and completely rewritten act as trump suggested? Nope.

Has he diplomatically negotiated trade deals with other countries (like China) in favor of American interests? Nope.

Of all the NAFTA stuff about getting the motor industry's manufacturing back from Mexico into the country, and taxing the car companies trans border shipments at 35% to force them, has that happened? Nope.

And what is happening with the American automobile industry. Is it growing? Nope.

Is Mexico actually contributing any funds towards the common wall? Nope.

As someone from from another country, the social pressures don't work on me at all. I can talk freely and express what you are afraid to say.

Ahhh yes, the old "americans are afraid to speak their minds" trope... wait that's not a thing....

9 Celebrities Who Were Accused of Being Unpatriotic - Beliefnet

Neil Armstrong film accused of being unpatriotic - artdaily.com

McCarthyism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Michelle Obama attacked over patriotism gaffe - The Telegraph

It looks like every time someone in America disagrees with another, they do actually call them unpatriotic.

Your ignorance seems limitless! Please continue to enlighten us!

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

The issue was about if immigrants committed more crime than citizens.

No the issue was about if illegal immigrants and refugees commit more crime than citizens.

Yes, since you seem to want pedantry, illegal immigrants, asylum seekers (who are not illegal immigrants) and refugees (who are not illegal immigrants).

I was just being unredundant because all of those aforementioned are immigrants by definition, regardless of their legality or otherwise.

a reply to: chr0naut

American culture is broadcast in vivid color, across the world, with volume and repetition.

And yet you still don't seem to understand it. Case and point, two quotes from you:

We call them "loud Americans" for a reason.

I can talk freely and express what you are afraid to say.

So which is it. Are we unabashed americans who broadcast our culture, ideas, and opinions loudly? Or are we afraid to speak our minds?

Has Trump stopped little Kim from building nuclear weapons or lobbing the missiles to carry them across the sea? Nope.

Has anyone else in the world? Nope. They're all a bunch of failures too, right?

Did Trump negotiate to fund his wall without damaging all other government funding?

What? Diplomacy is now accounting gimmicks? Did trump promise a wall? Is he delivering? Furthermore, you ought to look up diplomacy.

Has his re-write of the affordable health act actually done much different than the original one? Is it a totally new and completely rewritten act as trump suggested?

Really, go look up the word diplomacy. You're embarrassing yourself with your ignorance again.

Has he diplomatically negotiated trade deals with other countries (like China) in favor of American interests?

Yes, with canada and mexico (NAFTA is no more) and with europe as well. Currently the trade deal with china is ongoing, you can't declare victory or failure part way through the game.

Of all the NAFTA stuff about getting the motor industry's manufacturing back from Mexico into the country, and taxing the car companies trans border shipments at 35% to force them, has that happened?

You've again strayed away from diplomacy. But he didn't need to do the 35% tariff because he got the trade deal he wanted.

And what is happening with the American automobile industry. Is it growing? Nope.

Still not diplomacy. You might want to actually look these things up before spouting off about them Auto manufacturing has increased under trump. See for yourself:

Is Mexico actually contributing any funds towards the common wall? Nope.

Yeah, they are. Through the trade deal there is more money in the US economy from mexico than there was previously. A portion of that money goes to the wall. It's an accounting gimmick.

It looks like every time someone in America disagrees with another, they do actually call them unpatriotic.

Maybe in 2003. This is 16 years later. But that doesn't stop us "loud americans" does it?

a reply to: chr0naut

Of course there are far more legal immigrants in the US than there are illegal and therefore every stat you showed that said "immigrants commit less crime" is not an accurate representation of the point I was making. Meanwhile the reimbursements for housing illegals who commit crimes is a pretty accurate representation and it shows that illegals commit far more crime than citizens.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

Right, and what happened to the native population? Great argument for strong anti-illegal immigration policy. Great self pwn there.

I fail to see what the slaughter, oppression and marginalization of native Americans by their own government has to do with immigration.




Massacre of the Sioux


Wounded Knee

You guys are nasty!

a reply to: chr0naut

You fail to see how unchecked illegal immigration was bad for the native population? Seems like you posted some pics that showed how that worked out.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

And yet you still don't seem to understand it. Case and point, two quotes from you:

We call them "loud Americans" for a reason.

I can talk freely and express what you are afraid to say.

So which is it. Are we unabashed americans who broadcast our culture, ideas, and opinions loudly? Or are we afraid to speak our minds?

Shakespeare wrote of a "tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury but signifying nothing".

Likewise it does not follow that because someone talks loudly and incessantly, that they express their true and deep fears.

In psychology, it is said that those who cannot abide silence, do so because they are constantly trying to distract themselves and drown out their increasing anxiety.

Has Trump stopped little Kim from building nuclear weapons or lobbing the missiles to carry them across the sea? Nope.

Has anyone else in the world? Nope. They're all a bunch of failures too, right?

They haven't had the opportunity to talk with Kim Jong Un like Trump has, so, I'll let them off the hook on diplomatic issues.

What? Diplomacy is now accounting gimmicks? Did trump promise a wall?

Yes.

Is he delivering?

Where is the wall? Shouldn't it be mostly finished now? So, no, not delivering as far as I can see.

Furthermore, you ought to look up diplomacy.

diplomacy - The Free Dictionary

OK, I've looked it up. Now what?

Or did you just read the top line and then stop?

Has his re-write of the affordable health act actually done much different than the original one? Is it a totally new and completely rewritten act as trump suggested?

Really, go look up the word diplomacy. You're embarrassing yourself with your ignorance again.

Perhaps you are embarrassing yourself? I mean, having the attention span of a goldfish would be nothing to shout about. Read the next line down, and perhaps a few more after that.

Has he diplomatically negotiated trade deals with other countries (like China) in favor of American interests?

Yes, with canada and mexico (NAFTA is no more)

NAFTA was the North American Free Trade Agreement. It was between Canada, Mexico and the US.

The new trade agreement is between Canada, Mexico and the US. It is called a new name and has some changes but is built on the framework of NAFTA. One of it's primary differences relates to tariffs on car manufacture.

and with europe as well. Currently the trade deal with china is ongoing, you can't declare victory or failure part way through the game.

That is very true!

But China is more of a competitor against the US than other nations.

Confrontational and inflammatory words and severe tariffs are likely to be met with the same.

Trump won't be able to bully China.

Of all the NAFTA stuff about getting the motor industry's manufacturing back from Mexico into the country, and taxing the car companies trans border shipments at 35% to force them, has that happened?

You've again strayed away from diplomacy. But he didn't need to do the 35% tariff because he got the trade deal he wanted.

And it's effect on the US motor vehicle manufacturing industry?

"Getting his own way", no matter what, is belligerence, not diplomacy.

But perhaps he is a puppet of Russia? Just doing enough damage that no one can really be sure if he intended it.

And what is happening with the American automobile industry. Is it growing? Nope.

Still not diplomacy. You might want to actually look these things up before spouting off about them Auto manufacturing has increased under trump. See for yourself:

That is only during 2018. At the start of the graph, it was clearly falling after a year of Trump.

In 1970, the figures where double what they were in 2018. In fact since those heady days of unsustainable overproduction, the more moderate increase in sales lags behind population growth.

The following picture shows that while there has been some small growth, imports far exceed exports and the market is saturated, there are no extra Americans around to buy more cars, so the industry cannot grow in the way suggested by Trump. The madness that destroyed Detroit is over and most companies are wary of overproduction

Yeah, they are. Through the trade deal there is more money in the US economy from mexico than there was previously. A portion of that money goes to the wall. It's an accounting gimmick.

Nope, the balance of trade has been fairly stable for decades. The imports from from Mexico always exceeding exports to Mexico (the US imports goods and pays Mexico the money) but, mind you, they have paid out more to Mexico under Trump, especially in 2019 than in previous years. That's less money in the US economy.

Trade in Goods with Mexico - US Census

It looks like every time someone in America disagrees with another, they do actually call them unpatriotic.

Maybe in 2003. This is 16 years later. But that doesn't stop us "loud americans" does it?

Apparently not.

Fox News host calls USWNT 'unpatriotic'

FNC's MacCallum Slams 'Unpatriotic' and 'Inhumane' Media Rooting for a Recession

How Unpatriotic Is Donald Trump? - HuffPost

NEWSDan Crenshaw Shuts Down Joy Behar On Live TV For Calling Trump Unpatriotic (Video)

Republicans say protest of Trump shows Democrats are unpatriotic and in disarray - Washington Post

Fox News’ Jesse Watters: Soccer Women’s ‘Unpatriotic’ Behavior Hurts Equal Pay Fight - HuffPost

I could go on but if you watch FauxNews or any other propagandist opinion source you'd know the frequency of the use of the word "unpatriotic" (and they also use the word "patriot" a lot too, in that sort of creepy adulative, sycophantic, boot licking, fawning, brown nosing way.

Also "bombshell", they like that word a lot. Usually its about some nothingburger speculative item, though.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

You fail to see how unchecked illegal immigration was bad for the native population? Seems like you posted some pics that showed how that worked out.

The unchecked illegal immigration had nothing to do with it. The first fleeters and Europeans after Lewis & Clark claimed it was their "manifest destiny" that gave them a legal right to inhabit the land and also they claimed to have "purchased" large parts of the country.

The bad guys were the US government, US cavalry and US citizens (and some of the natives, too). All of them living within the borders most of their lives. It was entirely internal American warfare.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: chr0naut

Of course there are far more legal immigrants in the US than there are illegal and therefore every stat you showed that said "immigrants commit less crime" is not an accurate representation of the point I was making. Meanwhile the reimbursements for housing illegals who commit crimes is a pretty accurate representation and it shows that illegals commit far more crime than citizens.

There are studies, like the one from the Cato Institute that show a lower crime rate among illegal immigrants than among the general public.

The percentages of incarcerated criminals, who are undocumented, compared with the total number of undocumented calculated to be in the country gives us a ratio of criminals among the illegals, right?

Then we can compare with the numbers incarcerated who are not undocumented, divided by the total population statistic, minus the total undocumented population, this gives us a ratio of citizen criminals compared with total citizen population. Are you still with me?

I know that no-one has taken any specific metrics but the above simple calculation reveals a clear result that the general public are more 'criminal' than the specifically illegal immigrants, on the basis of incarceration numbers.

a reply to: chr0naut

Likewise it does not follow that because someone talks loudly and incessantly, that they express their true and deep fears. In psychology, it is said that those who cannot abide silence, do so because they are constantly trying to distract themselves and drown out their increasing anxiety.

Ok, and if that's the case, then you don't know the actual culture do you? Do you yet see how you erred in trying to claim you know the US because we are loud yet cannot speak our minds? If we don't speak our minds, you don't know us. If we are loud and we do, then you know us but were wrong about us being unable to speak our minds. It's really that simple. No amount of pretzeling yourself will make you right on both counts.

They haven't had the opportunity to talk with Kim Jong Un like Trump has, so, I'll let them off the hook on diplomatic issues.

Sure they have. So basically, because they failed so spectacularly at diplomacy that they couldn't even talk to the guy they want to stop building missiles, they're doing better than trump. LMFAO.

Where is the wall? Shouldn't it be mostly finished now? So, no, not delivering as far as I can see.

This is what we call moving the goal posts. The wall is being built. Hundreds of miles of guard rail (meant to stop vehicles) has been replaced with 30 ft wall. Border patrol has said there will be 400-500 miles of new wall and upgraded wall installed by the end of 2020 with the 2.5 billion that he diverted from the defense budget. So in spite of the dems doing everything they could to stop him from building the wall, from congressional budget tricks to lawsuits to stop him from building it, he's delivering. No amount of whining about lack of progress will shift the blame from democrats to trump.

Or did you just read the top line and then stop?

No, I read all of it. None of it applies to any of the things I pointed out. The ACA bit, what does that have to do with diplomacy (definitely not international relation and didn't require tact). Same with car manufacturers. Same with funding the wall (which he's secured funding for, regardless). Remember when trump offered the dems amnesty for the wall funding and they said no? Remember when he offered them permanent DACA for the wall and they said no?

NAFTA was the North American Free Trade Agreement. It was between Canada, Mexico and the US.

Admit it, you just had to goole what that was. LOL this is great.

The new trade agreement is between Canada, Mexico and the US. It is called a new name and has some changes but is built on the framework of NAFTA. One of it's primary differences relates to tariffs on car manufacture.

Yes, it's called the USMCA. I see you've learned a lot about it

But China is more of a competitor against the US than other nations.

Confrontational and inflammatory words and severe tariffs are likely to be met with the same.

Trump won't be able to bully China.

Not economically. Economically we're their customer. We're 20% of their entire economy. But china will be bullied and they'll hate every moment of it and they'll either let their country devolve into a 17th century hell hole or they'll give in. Choice is theirs and I couldn't care less which way they choose to go. The US functioned just fine without china up until the mid 90's and we'll function just fine without them going forward, should they chose that path. China did not fare just fine without the US.

Watch and see.

And it's effect on the US motor vehicle manufacturing industry?

We'll have to wait for congress to pass it. Right now we are on a soft version of it until congress passes it. The dems are slow walking it.

But perhaps he is a puppet of Russia? Just doing enough damage that no one can really be sure if he intended it.

LOL. So much damage is being done. Record low unemployment, rising wages, strengthening our defense, securing our borders, record high stock market, moderate to low inflation, NATO countries increasing their contributions closer to their pledged numbers. Just a disaster all around. This is why you shouldn't talk about US politics, you've got no idea what you're talking about. You've got a media stream of bs right into your brain and that's your only exposure. Meanwhile in the US we are living the greatness of this economy and administration.

That is only during 2018. At the start of the graph, it was clearly falling after a year of Trump.

No that graph is from 2009 to present. Not 2018. The first half of 2019 saw a plateau of auto manufacturing but these things are cyclical so it's not surprising at all.

In 1970, the figures where double what they were in 2018.

What figures? The number of people employed by auto manufacturers? Do you really expect donald trump to undo 45 years of bad policy in 2.5 years? really?

The following picture shows that while there has been some small growth

But you said it's declining.

The imports from from Mexico always exceeding exports to Mexico (the US imports goods and pays Mexico the money) but, mind you, they have paid out more to Mexico under Trump, especially in 2019 than in previous years. That's less money in the US economy.

In a whole dollars sense, that's correct but as a percent of the economy that's incorrect. The whole economy has grown by about a trillion dollars while the deficit with mexico will grow by about 20 billion. Over the entirety of the prior administration we exported an average of 200 billion dollars worth of goods to mexico. This year we are on pace to be just shy of 300 billion (probably >290B). That's more money from mexico coming into the US. Each of those extra 90+ billion gets taxed and therefore builds the wall. At 10% that's 9 billion more dollars per year. The wall hasn't cost anywhere near that yet.

I could go on but if you watch FauxNews or any other propagandist opinion source you'd know the frequency of the use of the word "unpatriotic" (and they also use the word "patriot" a lot too, in that sort of creepy adulative, sycophantic, boot licking, fawning, brown nosing way.

Never heard of fauxnews. must be unique to your country. We have a fox news though. I don't watch much of that either though. Just when it's on in the break room at work or when I'm at an airport and can't take anymore CNN propaganda.

originally posted by: chr0naut

See for yourself:

That is only during 2018. At the start of the graph, it was clearly falling after a year of Trump.

The graph is by year

i.e. "01/09" = Jan 2009

then Jan 2010 etc 🤣 🐇 🤣

a reply to: chr0naut

That's all fine and dandy but you simply can't get around the facts. Entering the US illegally is a crime. Ergo, 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals. Far higher than the 29% of adults in the US who have a criminal record. To work in the US without being a citizen or having a permit is also illegal. So 100% of working illegal immigrants are committing that crime. It's illegal to earn income in the US and not pay taxes, again 100% of working illegal immigrants are committing that crime. Then there is the rampant identity theft (quite illegal) and usage of stolen social security numbers (also illegal) to get jobs and benefits, which is also illegal.

It's a weird thing to try to argue that people whose first action in this country is to break the law, are somehow less criminal than the people who immigrate legally or are born here.

a reply to: xuenchen

Apparently years have 19 months in his country...