Brexit, Today is the Vote!

a reply to: Freeborn
Aye we the people always get shafted by the government or the rich , if its not kings queens and lords , merchants and bankers
its politicians , ceo's and bankers

Notice too that the unelected lords still preside over westminster and can sway political discourse , over England also over Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland like when the lords previously did it !

I'd be willing to bet some of the lords in the house today are descended from the same lords who cleared the highlands !

Oh can you tell me an equivalent Act of parliament that supressed an English cutlural practice ?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: ufoorbhunter
All peasants were treated like dirt back in the day though

Yeah very very true and in some ways they still treat us like that lol. At least that's the way it seems at times But in the case of the Highland Scots at least and the same with the Irish too terrible crimes were perpetrated by London and their landords on these regions and the pain is still felt by the descendants to this day.

a reply to: Freeborn

hardly current history but its our history , isnt that what brexit is all about , our identity as a group of nation states ?
we arent surrendering to the amalgam that is the EU smoothie

You were saying earlier about King Arthur another story funnily enough stolen by christians from pagans and re-told

but still its our cultural history , we should be remembering that history , event he shady parts, because its that history that needs to be remembered so we dont repeat our past mistakes, like letting government take too much control or lords or kings or whoever, its about the people, always has been !

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
But in the case of the Highland Scots at least and the same with the Irish too terrible crimes were perpetrated by London and their landords on these regions and the pain is still felt by the descendants to this day.

What pain do descendants feel to this day? I can understand bitterness about the history maybe, but pain?
Even bitterness about the history is something I don't fully get, it would be like me being angry with German folk for starting two world wars.
Nobody is alive from the days of Scots oppression, whinging about it now seems lame to me.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well I'm a Scot and I'm not bitter and Whiny lol. I don't know why you put up with us...well I suppose it's because you're stuck with us. I like English people ( I feel funny even writing that) like it has to be said. We aren't any different in any way...those who hearken back to clans and kilts have lost the plot!

a reply to: sapien82

True enough.

But at least be honest about it then and acknowledge that a lot of that was Scots on Scots and the English were exploiting existing Clan v Clan enmity and Highlanders / Lowlanders differences.

Oh can you tell me an equivalent Act of parliament that supressed an English cutlural practice ?

No.
But that doesn't mean there isn't one, it just means that I'm becoming incredibly lazy and can't be arsed to even a cursory search.
I also imagine the local Lord wouldn't have needed an Act of Parliament, he would have just done it. Same as The Church deemed people witches or heretics if they didn't like what they did or practised.
Bottom line is most local beliefs and traditions were eradicated one way or another.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Right so bringing up historical facts to make a point about brexit is considered whinging aye?

ken whits lame your constant inability to refrain from passing comment on Scots whinging , like somehow according to you no one else is allowed to have an opinion , unless of course that opinion doesnt conflict with your own morals and ideals in which case its just an opinion , as soon as you dont like it , they are considered whinging!

just because you personally dont feel a pain doesnt make it any less real for others who do!
so if someone says to you they feel pain for something that happened to their family in the past , you'd just dismiss it because you cant get your head round how that is possible ?



I had to laugh earlier at how you said we like to think we are different , and we are of course !
we have a strong cultural identity , then you said you were off to Rabbie Burns night !

Aww a ken rabbie burns , oor national bard , so when is it you celebrate your national bards day ?

in any case , Whit big rabba jobbie says here is what we should all follow

Then let us pray that come it may, (As come it will for a' that,) That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth, Shall bear the gree, an' a' that. For a' that, an' a' that, It's coming yet for a' that, That Man to Man, the world o'er, Shall brothers be for a' that.

a reply to: midicon
Haha, you note I said some sections of British society this time!
I like Scots as much as I like any other people from around the UK. I don't like whingebags who make out Britain is so terrible and kids are starving on the streets, proper drama queen types, but someone's nationality is irrelevant to me.
You have to admit though, your countryfolk on ATS do whine a lot more than any other people from around the UK.

Free prescriptions, free university tuition, subsidised water charges in council tax, cheap rent...living the dream north of the border lol, and I don't resent it at all, just wonder why we seem happier here down south.
Maybe better weather?

a reply to: midicon

no when there are lessons to be learned from it all !

a reply to: sapien82
Sorry dude, I was unable to understand much of your post because you typed in your regional dialect.
If you edit it back into English then I'll reply with my thoughts.
You can speak regular English I assume? It is taught on the curriculum in Scottish schools isn't it?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

As has been pointed out my ancestors were all Irish.....whilst I feel disgust at what they had to endure and anger that the truth is not more commonly known in the UK I don't however feel any 'pain' today or anger at anyone alive today.

And I also realise and recognise that injustice and inequality were everyday occurrences everywhere throughout The British Isles back in those days.

Do you believe that the sins of the father should be passed on down to their sons and do you believe the people of Scotland, Ireland and Wales somehow deserve some sort of preferential treatment today because of this?

As I've said on far too many occasions recently; there is far more that unites us than there is that divides us.
Whilst we bicker about these differences perhaps we should take time out and reflect on just whose agenda it serves that we remain divided?

originally posted by: djz3ro

Thank you, I had a read and I have to say, I think the pro No Deal crowd are playing down the bad points as much as the Remain side are playing up the negative aspects.

When I hear/read that a no deal will be bad for, crucify business's or the country

will implode. I like to hear from the horses mouth from actual business wo/men

rather than MP's after all they are more likely to know? as they are at the sharp

end!

Id like some real facts and figures not opinion pieces, we've seen too many opinions and not enough facts

I was in marketing and the same facts and figures can be manipulated to suit
and fit, and customised toward the required end result.


So I came across this at the weekend seems so easy .... why hasnt it come

out before?

Don't panic! We can avoid £39bn divorce bill and EU tariffs, insists Tory MEP

BRITAIN could have a "managed no-deal" for at least two years, with no EU tariffs while avoiding paying the £39billion divorce bill to Brussels, a memo to Cabinet ministers reveals.

The memo by Tory MEP David Campbell Bannerman, a senior member of the European Parliament trade committee
and leading Brexiteer, says the UK could invoke Article 24 of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT). That allows the UK and EU to continue to trade tariff-free for exceptional reasons, such as national security, and would take two years to challenge in the World Trade Organsisation international court, giving the UK and EU time to strike a free trade deal.
Sources say the proposal is favoured by Cabinet Brexiteers Penny Mordaunt and Andrea Leadsom, and has won key support in Brussels.

Mr Campbell Bannerman wrote: "This approach would continue the pre-March 29 status quo in trading arrangements and patterns without interruption, justified by an explicit provision of the WTO regime.

"An interim agreement would therefore be an important component of a 'managed no-deal' outcome from March 29, creating a space for negotiations to be reset and recommended on the basis of reaching a Super-Canada trade treaty."
Sources say the proposal is favoured by Cabinet Brexiteers Penny Mordaunt and Andrea Leadsom, and has won key support in Brussels.
Separately, Mr Campbell Bannerman has issued warning over the UK adopting a Norway or Turkey-style solution of staying in the customs union and single market.
He said it would mean Britain being powerless to avoid being dragged into EU trade wars, such as the one brewing between the bloc and South Asia over a ban on palm oil.

He added: "The Norwayplus option means decisions made in Brussels, which we cannot control, will dictate our trade policy, dragging us into their trade wars without a means of escape.

www.express.co.uk...

originally posted by: ipsedixit

There is an assumption being made that Her Majesty would never assume the role of chief mutineer. I'm not so sure about that.

I can just see Theresa May lecturing and talking over Liz in her school Marm style!!!

To the tower and beheaded....

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

As has been pointed out my ancestors were all Irish.....whilst I feel disgust at what they had to endure and anger that the truth is not more commonly known in the UK I don't however feel any 'pain' today or anger at anyone alive today.

It is as ridiculous as being angry with a German person for the sins of their fathers.
Whinging about history is the funniest thing I've read so far in this thread, feeling 'pain' about stuff that happened hundreds of years ago, lmfao.
My uncle was a POW and tortured in Burma, it makes me feel sad for him to think about it but I feel no pain.
Drama queens is all, can't let history be history, bitter whinging victims who need to move on.

a reply to: eletheia

Wow.

After all this time it appears there maybe a common sense solution to all this after all.....I wonder what all the harbingers of doom and gloom and predictors of the apocalypse will say about Article 24 of GATT.

www.politico.eu...

The article linked to is dated March 2017, it begs the question why hasn't this been made public?

brexitcentral.com...

a reply to: eletheia

I have to say, and i know many will disagree, but the £39 billion is the least contentious bit for me.

I see it simply as honouring what we had already committed to. Or to put it another way, when we are about to start a shiny new path, it isn't a good idea to start by renaging on previous commitments. It doesn't exactly foster any goodwill.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Its all very 'snowflake' isn't it.

I've never bought into the judging the actions of yesterday by the standards and values of today.
Everything needs putting in context of the time period it occurred.....doesn't excuse many things but certainly makes them more understandable.

And people are so selective when presenting historical facts.
As perfectly illustrated in this thread.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

better weather ! its science vitamin D and all that as well as SAD
SAD

Sunshine and Suicide

Rjukan Sun

I love rain though , so I dont think it effects everyone the same !

originally posted by: midicon
I think we are going to have another referendum as no deal is a non starter.
Might be bit of can kicking before that though.
Let's just sit back and enjoy the indignant furore that's sure to follow.
And just to add, I'm happy with no deal.

Seems theres quite a majority for NO DEAL in the country!

I watched a debate on sky yesterday and there was a studio poll and a sky poll

on the subject of leaving without a deal results were......


Studio audience poll 54% YES 46% NO

Sky poll 46% YES 54% NO


On the subject of a second referendum/peoples vote

Studio audience poll 58% NO 42% YES

Sky poll 56% NO 44% YES


Seems the Politicans are out of sync with the people.

a reply to: sapien82
I hate winter.
I've left the UK from October to March many times in my life for beaches in Asia.
I plan to do it this year, just gotta stop being a lazy bastard and actually do full 5 day weeks to raise the cash.
...check out my new thread about Scotland in the mud-pit, you won't be disappointed lol