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originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: eletheia
I see it simply as honouring what we had already committed to. Or to put it another way, when we are about to start a shiny new path, it isn't a good idea to start by renaging on previous commitments. It doesn't exactly foster any goodwill.
Selective in what way ?
facts are facts , they were used to highlight that we have always been at the mercy of the rich and poweful
yet some how this is snowflakey.....
I understand what ye mean , but not once have I said "the bastard English" or even suggested that Scotlands current crisis is entirely the result of "the bastard English"
I was simply highlighting that which you already agree with me on , we the people are always at the mercy of those who rule us !
.... the act of union etc, all those other acts that were detrimental to the people ,
.....did we vote for them ?....
.... the history of the UK is rich and bloody ,....
it seems we cant discuss it without people taking it to heart and is often the case the discussion returns to tribal grounds for some ,.....
.... I was using at as a tool for learning to emphasise the fact its always going to be us vs them! ,
its not the English , the Scots, the Welsh the Irish, its them ,....
.....those who rule us the ones who always take and take and then blame it on someone else then seek to divide us !
.... but why prop up a system that continues to take advantage , thats why i think shutting it down and starting again is the best way forward out with the old and in with the new !
originally posted by: oldcarpy
We voted to leave the EU and the Scots voted no to independence. why can't that be it?
Slightly off topic - what has happened to the Banter Cafe?
It has been claimed that the UK could simply move to WTO terms if there is no deal with the EU. But Anneli Howard, a specialist in EU and competition law at Monckton Chambers and a member of the bar’s Brexit working group, believes this isn’t true.
“No deal means leaving with nothing,” she said. “The anticipated recession will be worse than the 1930s, let alone 2008. It is impossible to say how long it would go on for. Some economists say 10 years, others say the effects could be felt for 20 or even 30 years: even ardent Brexiters agree it could be decades.”
The government’s own statistics have estimated that under the worst case no-deal scenario, GDP would be 10.7% lower than if the UK stays in the EU, in 15 years.
originally posted by: fakedirt
I am of the understanding that the house of lords have voted to allow the repeal of article50 no-deal brexit.
originally posted by: ipsedixit
The following information, put just this way, is new to me and I wonder why this sort of thing has not been given the media attention it would seem to deserve.
DAN HODGES: I was a die-hard Remainer. But arrogant MPs have made me a hard Brexiteer
I've worked in and around politics all my life. My mother was an MP. I've consistently attempted to fight the lazy caricature of British parliamentarians as venal, dishonest charlatans.
From a referendum in which 17.4 million people voted to leave the European Union, to the point where former Ministers of the Crown are sneaking around the Palace of Westminster, convening surreptitious conclaves to conceive ever more complex procedural devices to undermine Britain's departure.
But each one stated they were obliged to honour the will of the people as expressed in the referendum. Four months later, the vast majority were returned to Parliament on additional manifesto pledges to respect the result.
Yet, this week, those same MPs are preparing to stick two fingers up to their voters and, without any fresh mandate, 'extend' Article 50.
Or, in reality, kick the verdict of the British people into the weeds.
When will the penny finally drop? When will Yvette Cooper (whose constituents voted 70 per cent Leave) and her colleagues realise this cowardice – this abject refusal to clearly and confidently honour the instructions they were given in the referendum – created the antipathy towards politicians that led to Brexit in the first place.
Many MPs think that, by blocking all other avenues, voters will opt to stay, rather than risk No Deal. But they are dangerously deluded. If forced to choose between No Brexit or No Deal, most people will opt for No Deal. And I know this because I'm one of them.
I was a committed Remainer. But this morning I'm now a hard-Brexiteer. I finally understand where the anger comes from.
Thank you for that, Dominic Grieve. Thank you for nothing.
originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: eletheia
Why don't Brexiters give us an analysis of Britain's economic situation to counter the sort of thing seen in my previous post.
Brexiters have said that a "no deal" situation is not an impediment to the economic welfare of the UK because Britain will simply revert to WTO rules. The expert I cited, above, says it's not so simple. Let's hear the argument from Brexiters that, no, in fact it is that simple. I don't see it.
People who are reacting on an emotional basis, because they don't think their MP should have changed a position on the subject are being unreasonable.
The referendum was fought in the dark. The realities of the situation were not well understood or explained.
Sticking to a position that one now regards as wrong would be irrational. Expecting an MP to do so, particularly on so momentous a decision is not mature.