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Do the Freemasons preserve arcane mystical and occult knowledge in their rituals?

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posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 12:09 AM
Damn Mithra Worshippers...
Just don't have a ring to it though!

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 08:32 AM

Never mind.

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Tamahu]

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 11:55 AM
quote: "Freemasonry is transmogrified Mithraism"

Care to 'mind' now?

Is the USA known as Uncle Samael, or Uncle Samson?

[edit on 1-3-2005 by akilles]

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 12:32 PM
Best I can work out its a funny masonic sunworship ?

The major cult among the Roman legionaries was a cult which had come out of the Middle East called "Mithraism." Mithra is an ancient Indo- European name. (Mitra is still one of the principal gods in Hinduism, which is a lot older than Judaism or Christianity.) As this cult moved westward out of Chaldea, the figure of Mithra changed. He looked more and more Graeco-Roman, and not like a Persian or Hindu. The name is about the only thing that stuck--that and the iconography. Mithra was depicted slaying a bull, and in the carving were usually also a dog and a scorpion. (The above illustration is from a Mithraeum. There's also a full-scale Mithraeum at Yale Univ., in New Haven

Well looks like a smooth passage from Chaldea to Greco Roman , Hindu Judaic Christianity finally ariving at Yale University. seems quite straight forward.

I wonder if it gave birth to the word Myth ?

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 12:40 PM

Originally posted by akilles
Care to 'mind' now?

I would.
Early Christians destroyed nearly every record of Mithraism. We unfortunately know very little of what it was all about and for a large part can only make guesses.
Any website can only offer an opinion.

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 01:19 PM
Further, I would argue that Christianity is much more a type of neo-Mithraism than Freemasonry. The parallels are obvious: a man-god born of a virgin, murdered and resurrected at the spring equinox, born on Dec. 25, and followers congregate and worship on the day of the Sun, being the first day of the week (the day on which the deity was resurrected).

These parallels are not surprising considering that many of the important early Christians, like Constantine and St. Augustine, were also Mithraists.

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 01:37 PM
i just had a free mason plow my drive way before he went to plow out the huge mason temples driveway..lots of snow....whats satanic about that..
dude should read some about hinduism at least...conscious is all constructive not destructive...
reading about the hindus as a child..really played a part in my life..

aaaaaaaaah i entered heaven and hell today...lots of fresh powder here in new england usa..had first tracks down a steep mogul run covered with 8 inches of fresh snow..not one track down it yet..
i stopped to look and absorb and some one from the chairlift above,yelled dont think about it..the more you think the less you will do it..

i appreciated the comment..thou i was not thinking as it may have seemed..i was in awe and i yelled back thank you for that.
and went..
it was orgasmic..same if not better then sex and that god like/higher self like feeling..
i was on the edge of my seat on the chair lift on the way up..could not wait to get back ther..
by then ther were two other tracks following mine..
this time,i thought which way will i go..eeeer some of these moguls are hard under the snow when i resist against the mtn.some rather than just letting go..
the way down was goofy..not straight line and heavenly like the first...surely my thoughts made me enter hell some..

being content i felt like i was ready to go home at 10 keep the heavenly feeling rather then the one i could have stayed in if i pounded myself into hell..

more of greenmans out of context dribble.

could it be satan...dont think so.
inner peace please

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 03:26 PM
Quote: "Damn Mithras Worshippers."

Damn Fundamentalists - trying to force their Orthodox Viewpoints down others throats - calling everyone who is not in their own little Personal Cult a "Satanist". Contributing nothing to Society but Inquisitions - Destroying the Lives of Brilliant Scientists & Artists & Mathematicians in the name of "Witch Hunting"!

Jeez you would think that it was a crime to study "Ancient Religions". You know there is no Law that states that everyone in the world must be an Orthodox Judeo-Christian (although the likes of you would probably enjoy this)! Have you ever heard of the concepts of Freedom & Liberty - Akilles?

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:03 PM
Is the world a bad place because it isn't spiritual enough?

I am NOT making this claim. That view is for the ignorant.

It is the TYPE of spirituality that dominates the world, that makes it what it is.

Look at American children's attitudes towards God (as reported by Reuters a week ago, if memory serves) where they view God as someone to be called upon, and solves problems.

I don't care for what religion people PROFESS to belong to, I don't belong to one myself. I am interested in men's actions. The fact that groups like the Knights Templar were involved in banking in ways no Christian was allowed to, tells you something.

They made money from other people's money, AND they made allegiances with other people who had large amounts of money (such as Scottish nobility, who allowed Knights sanctuary when they were hunted in the rest of Europe).

This tells you their VERY BELIEFS are different from what we are meant to believe, as their actions illustrate quite clearly organized power/wealth gaining methods. At the time there were NO SUCH THING as common people, they were all free, ordinary people, who had no REASON to gather large amounts of wealth (as money didn't mean anything on a farm), and no REASON to impose their power on others.

The Church was powerful, yes, but it is not to be confused with government.

People say I am on a witch hunt
, all I want to do is show that there are belief systems in this world that are EXCLUSIVE, SECRETIVE, Elitist, and probably don't have any qualms about 'enlightening' the unfortunates of the world, by committing acts that will 'further' humanity on its path.

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:17 PM

Originally posted by akilles
At the time there were NO SUCH THING as common people, they were all free, ordinary people, who had no REASON to gather large amounts of wealth (as money didn't mean anything on a farm), and no REASON to impose their power on others.


You've actually got it the wrong way round and you really do need to read up on the Knights Templar. The vast majority of the Order were common people. Each Knight required a vast entourage to keep him on his horse - everything from book-keepers to stable-lads.
As for money not meaning anything back then? That really shows no understanding of economics. Money predates that Knights Templar by centuries. Europe had left the bartering system behind long before the KT arrived on the scene.
If anything, the KT enabled monetary wealth to be distributed more fairly through their banking system. Prior to this, people had to rely on the favour system and ingratiate themselves to a noble if they required finance - they became indentured. The KT cut out the need to go to a nobleman and sell oneself for finance.

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:22 PM
this was written by Michael Berg
this is how i too look at much before me.

A landmark on the road to becoming like God is the realization that nothing happens because of external forces. Whatever happens to me, positive or negative, happens because I need it to happen to me at that instant for my spiritual development. Whoever “does” it to me happens to have the merit to be the vehicle for that action….but it was going to happen anyway. The individual simply was the channel.

This demolishes the paradigm of our current world, which is a paradigm of total misunderstanding. Now, when someone treats us badly and apologizes, we brush it off: “Oh, that's OK.” We don't fully embrace the apology, because we still want the person to feel bad for it. We are totally in the grip of the notion “They did it to us.”

Conversely, when we do something good for someone and they thank us, we brush that off: “Don't worry about it.” We're not really accepting the thank you because we feel they still owe us.

It's a mistaken view of the world.

When someone does a good action toward us, that action was going to happen anyway and that person happened to be the channel. He can't expect a thank you - it is he who gains by the goodness he partakes in.

In the bible story, Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers. Through an amazing set of events, he winds up second in command to the Pharaoh of Egypt, and when his brothers come to Egypt for help, he reveals his identity to them. To say the least, they are astounded and embarrassed for their actions to him. Yet Joseph, being the high soul he is, feels no animosity or anger toward them, realizing it was for the best that he went to Egypt and thus got to reveal his greatness. The brothers were naturally sorry for committing a grave misdeed against him, but Joseph himself sincerely felt there was nothing for them to be sorry for.

When a person lives this way, it changes his life. When we recognize that each event was going to happen anyway, we can't become so angry anymore, so needing of thanks, or such a victim to resentment.

Like all struggles on the path of becoming like God, this is difficult do. Universal victimhood dies hard. But we must try.

And the final point pertains to imposing this truth on others. In the words of a great kabbalist:

When it comes to me, I'm a believer. When it comes to others, I'm an atheist.

What he means is, you don't judge others. You don't pontificate to a person in stress how there are no external forces and it's all for the good.

You live the truth yourself. You hold yourself to the most rigorous spiritual standards. But you approach others with human dignity and gentleness.

Just like God.

How do you prepare yourself for a divine spiritual experience when the negative forces keep nagging at you until you lose control and do something that seems to bring you back to square one. These feelings of loneliness, despair, jealousy. I really need some insight on this because this is becoming a real challenge. I know it's me but I just don't know how to handle it. Any advice?

The great kabbalist Rav Ashlag taught: in spirituality there is no disappearance. Whatever Light you reveal will never disappear. When a person falls, he does not lose the level or Light he has already achieved. Returning to square one is an illusion.

The Opponent, or Evil Inclination as kabbalists speak of it, will make us despair, make us believe in the notion of square one. It is important to fight these thoughts with fervor, and remind ourselves that for every positive action Light is revealed, and that Light is maintained and that Light never diminishes. In the middle of despair, we must remind ourselves that we have revealed Light, and that we must clean away the darkness and we will find it.

Understand that the “negative forces nagging at you” is the Opponent speaking and he has a certain hold on you. You must disconnect from him more and more. Second, you must take action to get back to and re-connect with the Light already achieved. You can do this through sharing (remember, our positive actions never get diminished), and through meditating or praying. Praying in the kabbalistic sense is not asking something of God. It is connecting to the Light.

With Love & Light,

Michael Berg


posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Leveller

You've actually got it the wrong way round and you really do need to read up on the Knights Templar. The vast majority of the Order were common people.

Not even to mention the fact that each potential Knight, upon being made a Squire, was required to take a vow of poverty, and could possess no personal property except for the absolute necessities. To try to paint them as "wealthy", as akilles has, is the height of ludicrosity.

Furthermore, akilles tells us that we should not confuse the Church with the government, which illustrates his complete misunderstanding of feudal Europe. The Church and state were then symbiotic; they were not separate entities (it was not until the US Constitution was ratified that the Enlightenment's concept of a separation between the Church and state was put into practice).

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:32 PM
Well slap me and call me Susan, that was a great post there greenman.

posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 05:44 PM
The group was wealthy, the majority were sworn to poverty, leaving plenty for hidden controllers, but this is a difficult concept to imagine for some, let alone prove (although one must ALWAYS come first).

The Church, although symbiotic with the state as you said, it was not ANYTHING like government by Monarchy, or the later, more dominating (in the personal lives of citizenry) Democracy.

All they did was put a healthy fear of God in you, got the Knights to collect tax (oh yes they did), and let you on your way.

But if you're here to give an apologist view of history, go right ahead.

How was being indentured to a lord ANY different than taking the Knights poverty vow? Both still benefitted from you working your ass off, did they not?

You can sugarcoat it, but the world has got to be a dreary place for those to be ACCEPTABLE choices for an ordinary free born person.

Leveller, are you going to give me a lesson on property from the time of Babylon?

posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 05:44 AM

Originally posted by akilles

But if you're here to give an apologist view of history, go right ahead.

How was being indentured to a lord ANY different than taking the Knights poverty vow? Both still benefitted from you working your ass off, did they not?

You can sugarcoat it, but the world has got to be a dreary place for those to be ACCEPTABLE choices for an ordinary free born person.

Leveller, are you going to give me a lesson on property from the time of Babylon?

You do need the lesson, but I'll save that for another time.

How was it different? Well for a start, when you were endentured, you were at the beck and call of the nobleman. With the Templars you merely had to pay the money back with a fixed interest rate.
Big difference. Would you rather pay back what you have borrowed in cash or would you rather borrow money from someone and have them make you their slave.
I don't dispute that the Templars didn't benefit. But their system was 100% fairer.
If you're talking about the Knights being indentured through their vows, you're on a totally different track. KT became KT through choice. It was an honour. But there were relatively few actual knights in comparison to members of the rest of the order.

By the way. If your insinuation is purely that the Templars gained financially and because of this they were evil, what does that say about the borrower? You can even drag that question though history. If you want money, you have to earn it. If you want money that you haven't earned it will always cost you a little bit more.

posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 08:49 AM
If i were to have lived in the time money was being thought up,i would have wipped the seers eyes!
dont have much money,dont care for it,thou in this world we live i too need to fall prey to the evil if thats how some look at to be able to carry on with my heavenly is instrumental.

so i nearly live in poverty,it does not reflect thru my life and my creativity.
i do not choose the poverty idea in my external world for my inner world is wealthy.
and we are rich with the land and people are forgetting WE ARE RICH WITH THE LANDS.
thou there are walls placed up before us between ourselfs and nature
and land is being raped and the riches taken away..
these walls once again are crashing down,thou will they fall fast enough for that connection to be made beyond the $$$ signs.
ok just..greenmans dribble..means nothing...

posted on Mar, 2 2005 @ 05:39 PM
Quote: "St. Augustine... also (a) Mithraist."

On a side note...

Well actually St. Augustine was a Manichean (Gnostic Sect) before Converting to Orthodox Catholicism. Jesus told his disciples to watch for the "Paraclete" (i.e. "Advocate/Intercessor") . Many believe that Mani was this "Paraclete". Mani merged many ideas of Judaism with the Teachings of Jesus (who was all about Inclusiveness - Christianity is Hellenized Judaism more or less) in addition to Zoroastrianism & Buddhism (which if studied carefully can also be picked out of Jesus' Teachings/Philosophy). Imagine that - a Christianity which Incorporates FreeWill & Karma -> hence
Re-Incarnation! The Catholic Church spent a Lot of time Suppressing Gnostics like the Manicheans & Destroying their Scriptures!

As was mentioned before - Mithras was a god originally taken from Zoroastrian Persia. The Bull is a Fertility Symbol of the Earth. There is that famous image of Mithras as Persius Slaying said Bull. In addition Mithras was a SUN GOD. As this Moved West (like say to Rome) the Religion became more Hellenized. In addition Constantine was also a Worshiper of the Pagan SUN GOD "Sol Inviticus" - before he became the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire (or Republic if you like) & the first
Pope of the Roman Catholic Church!

Christ -> "I am the Light & the Life".

[edit on 2-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 2-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 2-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
It's Never going to end - this Ignorance, I swear it will NEVER END!

Jesus could come back to Earth Tomorrow in a Big Show & announce
"Hey Everyone the FreeMasons are actually pretty good Guys, They do a lot of Charity Work & they Preserve Sacred Knowledge & Wisdom - I say they are OK" & you will STILL have these Moronic Trolls pop out of
no-were & say Stupid S**T like "Masons Worship Satan"! It makes me sick - why don't you guys try reading some Books & Educating yourselves before you speak!

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

i think your getting things out of context there, just because someone talks about conspiracy doesnt mean they are against the mysteries.

[edit on 3-3-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]

posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente

Well actually St. Augustine was a Manichean (Gnostic Sect) before Converting to Orthodox Catholicism.

That is true, but he did not become a Manichean until he had reached adulthood. His father was a Mithraist and his mother was a Christian. He received a Christian education and was baptized, but he wrote that through his adolescence, he considered himself a Mithraist. After becoming influenced by the Gnostics and Neo-Platonists, he eventually returned to Christianity; but his Christianity was different from his mother's. He was a true scholar, intellectual, and philosopher, and incorporated Gnosticism, Mithraism, and especially Platonism, into his theology.

As was mentioned before - Mithras was a god originally taken from Zoroastrian Persia.

Actually, Mithras far predates Zoroastrianism. The first mention we find of Mithras is in the Rig Veda, which is the one of the oldest books in existence. There, Mithras is glorified along with Indra, as the primeval light.

In Zoroastrianism, the Supreme God was called Ahura Mazda, but Mithras is mentioned several times in the Zend Avesta as a manifestation or emanation of Ahura.

posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 10:08 PM
MasonicLight you never cease to amaze me....

That's why I'm honored to:

You have voted Masonic Light for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


Even tho you did vote for Kerry

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