The Serious 9/11 Arguments Compilation.

originally posted by: Jesushere
Bankers trust building? That a fair distance for the passport to travel to WTC3 building is behind WTC1.

This was found on top of the Bankers Trust building.





This was found on the road behind the Bankers Trust building.




Both from AA11.



Can you tell us what you think happened to the air inside of the 767.

originally posted by: Jesushere
waypastvne guy could be a nut case if all we know. I could write up a testimonial and claim this too who know any different?

Maybe you should compare what he says with some photos from that day.

The water delivery truck he says was parked in the loading bay of Bankers Trust is right here:



A piece of AA11 fuselage is sitting right in front of it.

a reply to: Jesushere


You might also want to check out all of the life vest, seat cushions, bone fragments,ect...from AA11 found on top of the Bankers Trust building.

It appears Niels guano loco Harrit has wussied out of presenting us with his 3 1/2 hour long Moon Hoax video.

All links of the announcement have been deleted.

www.facebook.com...

How disappointing.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux Information provided by NIST cannot be trusted. They modelled WTC7 collapse incorrectly and dare I say it fraudulently.

And the information from the truth movement is total BS.

For WTC7 they are 100 per cent right. There are drawings, documents, photos that clearly show shear studs, girder stiffeners and a beam plate on the girder that NIST said came off its seat at column 79. You are guys are supporting a hoax.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux Even if FEMA believe fire caused Tower 1 to fail they disagreed with NIST where the event started.

What do you mean by every floor had to be cut? The central steel core failing is enough to cause a failure across the building. What caused the central core failures?

The truth movement’s major argument is the towers could not achieve the witnessed rate of collapse unless CD removed the resistance of each floor. Is that false? Sorta of the start of the whole CD fantasy.

Recharge Gauge claims the towers fell trough the path of greatest resistance. Is that false?

But for WTC 1 and 2, long sections of vertical columns remained standing after the last of the floor systems crashed to the ground. The vertical columns fell in the wake of the collapsed floor systems. The floor systems fell about 60 percent of the rate of free fall. The cores fell slower at 40 percent of free fall.

I have not seen Richard Gage presentation about the twin towers. I will have to watch first to tell you.

Three towers fell so you have to quote exactly his remarks on this. WTC7 experienced freefall for 2.25 seconds so yes the resistance beneath would have to been removed when it started to fall.

originally posted by: Jesushere

shear studs,

Shear studs do the same job as railroad spikes. They keep the rails in line and keep them from buckling when they get hot.



They don't always work.

originally posted by: Jesushere

WTC7 experienced freefall for 2.25 seconds so yes the resistance beneath would have to been removed when it started to fall.

Or it could be momentum transfer.

You do know that WTC7 actually exceeded free fall acceleration. Momentum transfer would account for this.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux Information provided by NIST cannot be trusted. They modelled WTC7 collapse incorrectly and dare I say it fraudulently.

Like an unethically peer reviewed paper in a pay to play journal, with samples never released for independent verification of thermite. With the paper never publishing a result of a test that would actually prove or disprove a thermite reaction. While claiming super thermite without actually writing out what formula of thermite the paint chips matched? And nobody else finding thermite in the WTC dust. With no explanation why there would be thermite in the dust dust. With no thermal imaging or metallurgical proof the steel was heated to 4000F at which thermite burns?

This is false a good number of scientists with impeccable credentials have studied the red/grey chips. The Skeptics have made false allegations because they not siding with them on this. Independent verification, that's already been done? Even Dr Milette had a sample of red/grey chips! Nobody stopping other scientists from coming onboard and carrying out their own research. You have an opinion the scientific community is fully aware of this phenomenon? I'll will be surprised if more than 5 per cent of scientists knows this information.

You keep spouting 4000f and 5000f when Harrit ignited in the DSC at 430c. It, not thermite its nano-thermite. It an engineered substance that packs a punch

originally posted by: Jesushere
Harrit ignited in the DSC at 430c.

So does your nano thermite ever get any hotter than 430c ?

How hot does it get ?

waypastvne Finding items after WTC1 and WTC2 collapsed is not a shocker. WTC2 building is in the line of sight of the Bankers Trust building.

I thought this is the item they found belonging to Satam Suqumi?


A map of the area.


Flight 11 came from the direction of WTC7. So are you claiming the passport went from one end of the building to the other exited out took a flight in the air for god knows how many feet and landed on a street near the Banker Trust building?

originally posted by: Jesushere
waypastvne Finding items after WTC1 and WTC2 collapsed is not a shocker.

It was found before the buildings collapsed.

I thought this is the item they found belonging to Satam Suqumi?

Yes that is the same passport.

So are you claiming the passport went from one end of the building to the other exited out took a flight in the air for god knows how many feet and landed on a street near the Banker Trust building?

Why not, all the life vest and seat cushions did.

Are you saying all the seat cushions and life vest are FAKE.

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jesushere

shear studs,

Shear studs do the same job as railroad spikes. They keep the rails in line and keep them from buckling when they get hot.

They don't always work.

Carrington fire test proved this can't happen in a steel framed building. The heated a steel beam attached to a girder with shears studs and stiffeners and did not collapse. Do you ever want to know why NIST removed things that were on the girder during construction? Do you not think things should be assessed correctly?

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jesushere
waypastvne Finding items after WTC1 and WTC2 collapsed is not a shocker.

It was found before the buildings collapsed.

I thought this is the item they found belonging to Satam Suqumi?

Yes that is the same passport.

So are you claiming the passport went from one end of the building to the other exited out took a flight in the air for god knows how many feet and landed on a street near the Banker Trust building?

Why not, all the life vest and seat cushions did.

Are you saying all the seat cushions and life vest are FAKE.

I have to leave but I try answering the other posts tomorrow.

I know that you posted items in the first picture that could be items found after the tower collapse. They could be items dropped by people running from the scene.

So you truly think his passport came through the building flew in the air and ended up on a street near Bankers. Skeptics claims truthers believe in fairy tales maybe you guys need to look in the mirror.

originally posted by: Jesushere

Carrington fire test proved this can't happen in a steel framed building. The heated a steel beam attached to a girder with shears studs and stiffeners and did not collapse.

Can you point me to the steel beam girder test. I've only seen the truss test.

originally posted by: Jesushere

They could be items dropped by people running from the scene.

People carrying life vest and seat cushions ?


You'r not very good at this.

a reply to: Jesushere

Carrington fire test proved this can't happen in a steel framed building.

Then why does code require steel frame building to be insulated?

You just need steel girders and steel shear bolts? You really don’t see the fallacy of your thoughts.

And when is a beam a girder, and a girder a beam?

And there is actually real debate what the drawings really show. What was typical, what columns got what, and which columns are atypical. You do realize lots of the drawings were destroyed in the buildings. And the acquired drawings used were hand me downs left overs. They would not denote any changes from years of remodeling.

How does any of those items stop steel from expanding at different rates, prevent strain from uneven heating, prevent steel from expanding when heated, prevent steel from misshaping and prevent strain when the steel has no room to expand, prevent the steel from weakening as it increases in temperature, and cannot prevent additional stain and contraction as the steel cools. And long columns will buckle as they lose lateral support?

a reply to: Jesushere

You keep spouting 4000f and 5000f when Harrit ignited in the DSC at 430c.

If it ignited at 430c, it’s probably not thermite. Please do tell what temperature iron oxide and aluminum burn at, and what temperature it maintains when it burns?

And I guess if it burns at 430C, it didn’t melt steel. So it wasn’t whatever Harrit found that caused the WTC to collapse.

And the paper is junk because they never gave a formula for “super thermite” they claimed they found that supposedly has a lower ignition temperature. So how can you verify what super thermite is?

And you cannot name one test they conducted that proves the paint chips could sustain a thermite reaction?

This is false a good number of scientists with impeccable credentials have studied the red/grey chips.

That is why they had to use a hack pay to play journal. Couldn’t get published elsewhere. Had to use people that helped put together the paper as peer reviewers.
And bypassed the paper’s referee? And they never did complete the process with independent verification by independent labs.


And you cannot name any people independent of Harrit’s paper that found thermite.

And forensic testing proved their was no free aluminum for a thermite reaction in the WTC dust.

originally posted by: Jesushere

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux Even if FEMA believe fire caused Tower 1 to fail they disagreed with NIST where the event started.

What do you mean by every floor had to be cut? The central steel core failing is enough to cause a failure across the building. What caused the central core failures?

The truth movement’s major argument is the towers could not achieve the witnessed rate of collapse unless CD removed the resistance of each floor. Is that false? Sorta of the start of the whole CD fantasy.

Recharge Gauge claims the towers fell trough the path of greatest resistance. Is that false?

But for WTC 1 and 2, long sections of vertical columns remained standing after the last of the floor systems crashed to the ground. The vertical columns fell in the wake of the collapsed floor systems. The floor systems fell about 60 percent of the rate of free fall. The cores fell slower at 40 percent of free fall.

I have not seen Richard Gage presentation about the twin towers. I will have to watch first to tell you.

Three towers fell so you have to quote exactly his remarks on this. WTC7 experienced freefall for 2.25 seconds so yes the resistance beneath would have to been removed when it started to fall.

From AE

www1.ae911truth.org...

In other words, the building was accelerating (traveling faster and faster second by second) straight down through what should have been the path of greatest resistance – the 80,000 tons of structural steel below that was at least five times stronger than necessary to resist this load. P

Why this is false.

One, floor connections to vertical columns could not support the load of either 11 or 29 stories falling into the towers.

Two, the floor connections could only withstand the dynamic load of being hit by the equivalent force of 7 tower stories falling.

Three. As the falling mass stripped floors from the vertical columns, the falling mass grew in magnitude. It makes sense, as the falling mass grew in magnitude, it would have more energy to smash through floor connections.

Four. The towers did not collapse through the path of greatest resistance. The falling mass sheared floor connections, and left vertical columns standing in the wake of the collapsed floor system. The vertical columns toppled because they were stripped of lateral support. Not because they were cut or smashed through.

The truth movement argument for CD of the towers is built on lies.

And you glossing over the true nature of WTC 7’s collapse is appalling and blatantly false to spin a biased narrative.

Again. WTC 7’s collapse started internally. It started from east to west. The facade only fell once all of the internal columns were buckled and offered no resistance.

The north face of the facade fell at free fall speeds in the middle time duration of its collapse.

Below is the stance of NIST you cherry pick. It talks about the exterior columns, not the interior columns. Please post evidence the exterior columns were cut floor by floor to remove resistance.

www.nist.gov...

NIST stated that the north face of the building descended 18 stories (the portion of the collapse visible in the video) in 5.4 seconds, based on video analysis of the building collapse. This time period is 40 percent longer than the 3.9 seconds this process would have taken if the north face of the building had descended solely under free fall conditions. During the public comment period on the draft report, NIST was asked to confirm this time difference and define the reasons for it in greater detail.
To further clarify the descent of the north face, NIST recorded the downward displacement of a point near the center of the roofline from first movement until the north face was no longer visible in the video. Numerical analyses were conducted to calculate the velocity and acceleration of the roofline point from the time-dependent displacement data. The instant at which vertical motion of the roofline first occurred was determined by tracking the numerical value of the brightness of a pixel (a single element in the video image) at the roofline. This pixel became brighter as the roofline began to descend because the color of the pixel started to change from that of the building façade to the lighter color of the sky.
The approach taken by NIST is summarized in Section 3.6 of the final summary report, NCSTAR 1A (released Nov. 20, 2008; available at wtc.nist.gov...) and detailed in Section 12.5.3 of NIST NCSTAR 1-9 (available at wtc.nist.gov...).
The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity

This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.

Jesushere

They could be items dropped by people running from the scene.

originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: Jesushere

They could be items dropped by people running from the scene.

People carrying life vest and seat cushions ?


You'r not very good at this.

Just a concerted effort to keep the fantasy that planted charges brought down the WTC on life support.