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Home owner aged 78 arrested under suspicion of murder stabbing intruder UK

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posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

From my own perspective, the law does make sense although it'd be an improvement if the police could use their judgement in cases like this. Of course, when the police get to exercise their own judgement, some will abuse it. Likewise, clever criminals could use the system to kill rivals in plain sight and say it was self-defence.

It's why the laws have evolved into what they are. On one hand, they're flawed and lack a conscience. On the other, human nature would exploit them if they had a conscience.

I realise I haven't really addressed your question. No, as far as I know, there's no official way for the populace to demand a change in the laws. There are times when public opinion sways the law makers and we have changes like 'Sarah's Law' which you also have in the States. There are often calls to bring back the death penalty and it doesn't happen.




posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Blaine91555

From my own perspective, the law does make sense although it'd be an improvement if the police could use their judgement in cases like this. Of course, when the police get to exercise their own judgement, some will abuse it.

British police can and do make that judgement call, I've been released 'no further action' plenty of times.
EDIT
Loss of life though, I'm more drawn to the idea that such a decision should be a mixture of police and the Crown Prosecution Service.
edit on 4-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

You recall correctly.

I, too, had to deal with the cops in the aftermath. Gave my statement, after I'd returned from the ER, and went about, albeit slowly, about my day...getting stabbed in the leg does nothing for ones mobility, well, nothing good.

I have no patience, none, for people who decide what's mine, is, in some strange reality, theirs. Theirs to be taken whenever and however, they wish.

The incident you're alluding to a gentleman, using the term very loosely, decided that the gray (silver, dammit) haired guy gimpin' around on the bad knee (long day at work) was fair game to be mugged. His tool of choice was the biggest damned Arkansas toothpick I've ever seen. Wanted my money, such as it was. I, not wanting trouble, gave him the 20 dollars I had on me at the time...he returned that favor by trying to kill me.

Well that well and truly pissed me off, I mean rob me, then try to kill me? WTF? Well, I got cut in the process of the struggle. I like to think he came out of it the worse for it. At least two broken ribs, I felt those go when I hit him, and one damaged, if not broken wrist when I took the knife away.

That was the day I decided I'd get a carry permit. I'm not getting any younger, and frankly, getting stabbed hurts, a lot!

Gave my statement to a uniform cop. Then a detective interviewed me, at home, two days later.

My problem with this whole scenario, the topic of the the thread, is why they had to take him into custody. If he has family, why not allow him to stay with them, or at his own home with them. It's the whole taken into custody thing that confuses me...can't the investigation take place without that? Or is the law that much different in the UK?

Not trying to start a fight. Just curious.
edit on 4/4/2018 by seagull because: sentence structure...



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Yeah but not when there's a screwdriver kebab body on your lounge carpet.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Yeah but not when there's a screwdriver kebab body on your lounge carpet.

Admittedly true, but I bet the police don't apply for an extension to the 24 hours.
Bet they all feel sorry for him, I just hope he ain't ranting "The bastard deserved it, wish I had got him in the eye!" or whatever, that's gonna make the difference what he says...I hope he's just saying he feared for his life.
EDIT
It is the only defence in British law, fear for oneself or other people, and the response must be 'reasonable'.
...and yes that is badly subjective, but it ain't rocket science.
edit on 4-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: UpIsNowDown

Robbing me is absolutely punishable by death, if i can catch you in the act.

Wow dude, I don't think the same, only do I need to remove a threat.
I mentioned the burglar I stabbed earlier, but I was burgled one other time and gave the guy a savage beating instead, didn't even phone the cops with that one just threw him into the street. I never once thought they deserved death fo simple theft.
I still see the guy I beat 20 odd years later, tragic, don't know how he is still alive, been a heroin addict all these years. An emaciated tragic shell of a human.


I've never been burgled and caught the person at it. I had a dude i knew break in and steal some stuff once while i was out. He didn't get anything that made it worth my effort to deal with it. I just let him keep the crap i was throwing away anyway (i was in the process of moving).

You need to understand: i didn't say someone deserved to die for theft. I said they would die. Deserving or not, barring a divine intervention.

First, keep in mind that its not a big secret. I live in Texas. No one expects they can enter your home without dying. If they do, they are grossly misinformed. May get away with it a few times, but you will eventually be carried out on a stretcher.

Next, you should understand something about me: i have no desire to engage in hand to hand combat with someone who is fighting for their life right after being woke up in the middle of the night. There is no benefit to me to make that choice...why would I make it? Instead, im going to let 00 buckshot do its job as I point my 12ga from across the room, like any sensible/reasonable person in Texas would do. Their death is a result of physics, not a judgement that was deserved. If they don't die...great. But for my own protection, im certainly not going to use to little force while stumbling around my house bleary eyed in the middle of the night. So i will use all the force available to me to ensure I am protected.

I have no interest in chasing someone down the street to get my stuff. So if they make it out of my house, im not giving chase. But Texas law may allow for me to give some chase, to the range of my property.

All of this assumes that I would somehow know that the intruders are there to rob me, and not simply bind/torture/kill me.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: seagull

That was my question.

The guy has the trauma of having to kill another human, and is whisked into the cold clinical environment of the law enforcement office, instead of being comforted by his family at home.

It just seems a bit cruel to me.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

It's horses for courses. Even if he was going OTT, it should be taken as an emotional response and forgiven. Not everyone has the James Bond response to having to kill a guy at 3am.

Ahem...cough...no doubt some of our American friends would be able to 'double tap' an intruder and go back to sleep with a shrug.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

Thanks.

Here when it comes to laws about this it's a State issue and some do allow for a referendum that can override the state government. Personally I'd like to see it as a universal right both federal and state as a buffer between those in power and the people who have to live under their laws.

MoveOn dot org has a petition up wanting a right to a national referendum to do an end run around the Constitution. It made me curious about the UK. In the end I don't think there is much difference in reality, other than State Rights.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Totally get ya

Different worlds is all, and don't get me wrong, I support your second ammendment because if I lived in a world with so many freely accessed firearms I'd certainly carry myself.
...I don't want hand to hand combat anymore either, getting older, but random tools lay around my home, randomly and just tools of course. No pre-meditation, just randomness in my home...that would be an incidental weapon then, very good in violence charges.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

Well thats good or he be charged with multiple murders...



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: seagull

Applause for how you handled the incident


I'm not sure if he needed taking to the station. It could have been a kindness too. Leaving him in his burgled home with the blood stained carpets and forensic officers doing scene-of-crime could have made it worse. Horrible situation and not one he asked for...or his wife.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky
I'm with you man, I just recognise how the Crown Prosecution will look at all his recorded words under caution.
Our world ain't perfect and it's a game negotiating it sometimes.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

True enough. Ideally, though, assuming he has family, they'd be contacted and come take him home with them, or something of the sort.

But, yeah, I can see that. Tough ol' codger though, spine of steel and the guts to match. Almost half again my age, and not only willing to defend himself, but able to...that's double tough. Quintessential British bulldog!!!



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
Quintessential British bulldog!!!

Agreed, I almost want him to have a Cockney accent as well



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

No. Not a shrug. I doubt I'd sleep, at least comfortably, for some time. It'd be same, I'm fairly sure, for even the most "shoot 'em all, let God sort 'em out" types...

Which is, I suppose, one of the things that separates most of us from the "takers". We have a conscience that talks to us. They, in many cases, do not.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

That goes without saying!! 'course I'm partial to that upper crust English, I'd almost call it a drawl, way of speaking. Do they teach that in school?
It's just so "I don't give a #." that you almost have to admire it.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: UpIsNowDown

If they come into my home, without my permission, armed--they're leaving in a bodybag, if I have anything to say about it.

The fact that they're armed means, to me, that they're OK with harming someone in the process of robbing them.

Nope. I'm simply not going to take the chance. I live with two of my sisters and my brother in law, none of which are physically able to defend themselves very well. I can, though I'm not the 25 year old I keep trying to think I am anymore, either.

So anyone coming into my house with intent to burgle is taking their life into their own hands. They can avoid that by staying the # out of my house. It's really very, very simple.


This bears repeating because I have the same opinion. I'm a little old lady. My firearms are my equalizers. I'm not going to stop them and ask them their intentions if they break into my castle. We have a terrible meth problem in our area and someone on that stuff often isn't deterred by anything short of a gunshot to a vital area. I just read a story in the local paper about a guy that was tazed three times by LEOs without going down. Took five of them to subdue him. I'm not waiting the 10-15 minutes it would take the cops to arrive. My friend Mr. Ruger and I will just have to handle it. Mr. Mossberg is my back-up.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:32 PM
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I'd hate to mess with a guy of that age shall we say as he'll of had to do military service and depending on what he did who knows what he learned.

Reasnonable use of lethal force is different all over the place and i'm sure in Texas the fact you tripped over a lace and fell on someones lawn thus trespassing would not be reasonable reason to fire probably a few thousand rounds at the person for example.

The guy was arrested and thus has his rights explained and protected and allows for collection of evidence and I'd imagine he's in hospital with a police escort who's probably more of a bit of company while they sort him out and gather the details of what happened.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

That goes without saying!! 'course I'm partial to that upper crust English, I'd almost call it a drawl, way of speaking. Do they teach that in school?
It's just so "I don't give a #." that you almost have to admire it.

I can only speak anecdotaly but when I was schooled and later my offspring, English classes taught us to speak 'posh' and local dialect was for the playground. I can switch easily from scummy me to 'phone voice' lol.
I really hope the old boy in the OP is a hard Cockney though, and gets released with no further action.




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