Time Traveling Abductors

This is a continuation of my other thread UFO's and Time Travel. I've been posting some updates in that thread but I feel like a new thread is warranted to discuss some new information. I'm not posting in the Skunk Works this time because I no longer feel like this a completely outlandish idea, and in fact is the most likely explanation for UFO's when we consider all the evidence. How did they find us? Why do they never reveal themselves? Why do they seem to appear at historical moments in time? Why are they humanoid in appearance?

Also worth thinking about is how do their crafts work... well we have witnessed them performing movements that would kill any normal person due to the intense inertial forces, so how could they possibly do that? One way we think this could be possible is by using a warp drive propulsion mechanism because instead of traveling through space, a warp drive actually moves space around the ship by warping it, thus allowing the ship to move through space in ways that no classical space ship would be able to, without killing the occupants. Such a craft wouldn't even be limited to the speed of light because there's no limit to how fast space can be warped.

However a warp drive isn't only manipulating space, according to Einstein space and time are part of the same fabric we call space-time. So what a warp drive actually does is warp space-time, and this seems to be a fact which is typically overlooked. We don't often think about how a warp drive may be used to manipulate time or even travel backwards in time, we tend to only focus on how it would warp space and allow us to travel vast distances in very little time. When we think about this in terms of relativity theory, it doesn't seem so crazy at all. Even just traveling faster than light should allow a craft to move backwards in time from certain frames of reference.

Today I picked up a copy of Abduction by the late John E. Mack from an old book store and it's quite revealing imo. We must ask ourselves why these aliens are typically depicted as humanoid beings and why abductees often report experiencing a sperm/egg extraction procedure, and why on Earth would they possibly need our sperm/eggs unless they were somehow compatible with our species. It seems very unlikely an alien species from far away would evolve to have two hands, two feet, a head, and be compatible with our species in any way what so ever.

The forced taking of sperm for some sort of poorly understood inter-species breeding program is characteristic of male abductions. Information about ecological disaster with powerful apocalyptic imagery is also commonly transmitted by the aliens to human subjects.

~ Abduction, page 66

Almost every abductee reports being shown images of destruction and chaos, and are warned that if humans continue on our current path we will destroy ourselves. We must also ask ourselves why so many abductees report having a similar message conveyed to them... why would an aliens species care so much about what we do on Earth unless it has some direct impact on their own well being. Are they just really environmentally minded people or is there some other reason? If they live on a future Earth then our actions now will affect them greatly.

Here is a very interesting little excerpt from the chapter about Ed:

Ed was told of the "heavily destructive" path we were taking, which was also destructive to the "humanoid's planet".

~ Abduction, page 54

Now why would our destructive actions on Earth also cause destruction to the humanoids planet? This seems like a rather strange statement doesn't it? Mack doesn't seem to recognize the significance of it and just skips over it. But when you read through this book keeping this time-travel theory in mind you see things in a whole new light... and I'm not sure I like the implications.

As I read this book it's becoming quite apparent that Mack was far too easily swayed by metaphysical arguments and often that prevented him from making grounded scientific conclusions because he had a desire to find some greater spiritual meaning in all of this. However I find his analysis on page 67 to be quite realistic and admitting to the uncomfortable truths:

A final word needs to be said about the use of hypnosis in Ed's case. Before my first meeting with him, Ed had recalled a great deal about his teenage abduction. But his conscious memory before the regression tended to simplify the experience and, more significantly, to gloss the narrative in ways that were more syntonic with the self-image and desires of a young adolescent than what he recalled painfully during the hypnosis session would be. Many embarrassing details relating to powerlessness and loss of control were not available to him except under hypnosis. In particular, the happy outcome of pleasurable sexual intercourse with the cooperative, sexually active, female alien gave way to the forced, quite humiliating, taking of a sperm sample as the being watched approvingly. This second scenario, which is obviously more disturbing, is far more typical of male abduction experiences and, therefore more believable.

All this suggests that, at least in Ed's case, the information recalled painstakingly under hypnosis is more reliable than the consciously recalled story, which seems to have been unconsciously adjusted to be compatible with Ed's wishes and self-esteem.

Abduction, page 67

The chapter about Jerry is even more disturbing... the things this girl went through due to her abduction experiences is shocking and shows a lack of empathy on part of the abductors. Although they often portray themselves as loving and caring beings, we must remember they also have the ability to make us feel emotions of love on demand and so any such feelings should be treated as highly suspect and a possible attempt to conceal the true nature of themselves and their activites. On page 121 the abductors outright admit where they are from:

In the months prior to our first hypnosis session on August 11, 1992, Jerry continued to have abduction experiences, including one episode just three weeks before, in which she consciously recalled seeing a UFO close-up and being taken by humanoid beings---whose attitude she felt was loving and benevolent---into the ship. There she saw shelves with instruments and vials, was seated on a chair or table, and had a complex dialog with aliens she felt were "beyond what we would think is intelligent or even genius." One of them explained that they came from so "far into the future" that she would not be able to comprehend.

~ Abduction, page 120-121

Again Mack seems to glance right over this remarkable statement from his patient, although I can understand why. If any of this is true then they'd damn well better have a really good explanation for screwing with people in our time and violating their rights in every conceivable way. I would really like to hear from anyone who has had an abduction experience so I can get your thoughts on this theory, whether you agree or disagree I'm still interested in your opinion.

I will continue updating this thread as I work through this book and find anything else of interest...

What if they came from the past?

originally posted by: AdKiller
What if they came from the past?

I guess that could be possible, assuming some highly advanced civilization existed in the past, but it seems much less likely. Also it wouldn't really explain why they care so much about our planet. However traveling into the future is something we know is possible but we don't know if traveling into the past is possible, so there could be something to your suggestion.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I have had a similar experience one of my theories it has to do with strings-not the ones you tie your shoes with, but the theory, which proposes that there are at least ten different dimensions.

I posted a thread about how I saw a man on a bicycle disappear at an intersection, sure it seems nuts but then I discovered reddit and found the 'glitch in the matrix' subreddit and found similar stories of cars or people disappearing at an intersection. I am crazy but my eyes don't play tricks and I think string theory (or the more refined M theory) could play a part. If Schroedingers cat didn't make your head explode then think of the idea of ten dimensions and that just might be able to explain ghosts, UFO's or time slips.

The biggest problem is we cannot detect strings, they are too small to detect with our current technology, but perhaps within our lifetime (I'm flipping a coin here) we might find an indirect method to find strings like we do with exoplanets.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Well as I said in my other thread on this topic, if time travel to the past is possible then that implies the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is probably the correct one because it avoids the paradoxes associated with time traveling into the past. If the many worlds interpretation is correct, then an infinite number of other times lines could exist.

It's amazing how far mankind has technologically advanced since the Wright brothers first successful airplane flight in 1903. In 115 years, we've developed nuclear weaponry and power plants, AI technology and landed a robotic rover on Mars. Consider what technology mankind will develop in the next 500 years, since the pace of technological progress speeds up exponentially over time. One can only imagine what technology an alien race possesses who are 10's, or even 100's of thousands of years more advanced than the human race. It's not unfeasable to assume that they "may" have developed the technology to create artificial worm holes, used to travel throughout the universe.

I have mixed feelings on the subject of abductions. I can't think of a rational explanation for aliens to travel to earth just to abduct it's inhabitants. More and more information is coming out on lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis hallucinations. I think this is probably what's causing the spike in abduction accounts. If you think about it, early alien abduction stories started to surface with the sci-fi movement in full swing. In the mid 50's, the space race had begun with Yuri Gagarin's landmark achievement of becoming the first human in space. We also had sci-fi comics and movies depicting "alien" invasions, thanks in part to Orson Well's “War of the Worlds” radio drama and the Roswell incident. The Antonio Vilas Boas case (1957) and the Hill abduction (1961) were the first cases of UFO abduction to earn widespread attention. Scientists believe that cultural influences from that time period, may have triggered hallucinogenic lucid dreams in people, which continue to this day.

Alien abductees are not crazy, delusional, nor insane. They're the victims of cultural influence (the way horror movies infect your nightmares) combined with a common sleep disorder called sleep paralysis.

Sometimes, on the verge of sleep or when you are stirring from a slumber, you can mentally awaken and become aware of the REM atonia before it wears off. It's a slight disconnect between brain and body - and while not dangerous, the results can be extremely disturbing if you don't understand what's happening.

If you wake up in the night and are unable to move, what happens? Most people tend to panic. The harder they try to move their arms and legs, the more obvious it becomes that something is blocking their will to move.

Fueled by the bizarre circumstances of waking up paralyzed, your half-asleep mind may try to make sense of the experience by creating nightmarish hallucinations to "explain" what's happening. Like dreams, these explanations are drawn from our unconscious beliefs about reality - including religious and cultural interpretations.

As our science and literature developed over the ages, so did our cultural beliefs. In the Western world, we're not so much enslaved by the idea of sexual demons as we are extra terrestrials and pan-dimensional beings. It doesn't take a giant leap of the imagination to go from incubus attacks to alien ones.

If you enter a dream from a half-awake, half-asleep alien abduction experience, it will likely follow the thread of being taken aboard a spaceship. You may go on to dream vividly about floating out your bedroom window, aboard a ship, and being prodded and probed - just as science fiction has taught us to expect. As with lucid dreaming, the course of this semi-conscious dream is largely directed by your expectations.

www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com...

So, why do aliens come to earth? I believe some are observers, who may be concerned about our destructive nature. Others believe that world governments may already be in contact with certain alien races. Then there are those, like Stephen Hawking, who believes that it's risky to make 1st contact, for fear of a malevolent alien race finding us. It's cool to speculate how many different "higher" life forms could exist in our universe. It puzzles me why some people believe that humans are the only spacefaring aliens our Universe has ever known.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

Read the John E. Mack book I mentioned here, then read The Threat by David Jacobs, then come back and tell me you still think it's all just their imagination. Jacobs discusses in great detail risk of memory confabulation and goes to great lengths to show why abduction accounts stand apart from other types of false memories. Also if you read all the accounts in both these books you will see there is a level of consistency in their stories which goes way beyond coincidence.

I believe some are observers, who may be concerned about our destructive nature.

That does not explain why they seem to have an obsession with the state of our planet, it's more than just a concerned 3rd party.

It puzzles me why some people believe that humans are the only spacefaring aliens our Universe has ever known.

See this thread I wrote a few years ago: Why searching for alien signals is a waste of time. Space is mind mindbogglingly massive and there's virtually zero chance another species has yet detected our presence in the galaxy because our radio signals have only covered an extremely small fraction of the galaxy and the signals deteriorate very quickly. As I said in the other thread, it has taken me many years to move towards the idea that UFO's are actually man-made machines and not extraterrestrial, all the evidence has slowly led me in that direction even though I would much rather believe aliens are visiting us.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: gortex

"It's estimated there could be around 30.000 stars within 200 light years of us , that's an awful lot of potentially habitable planets and moons out there that may harbor radio transmitting life."

30,000 is a very small number from my perspective, especially when you cut out all the star systems which cannot support life. And just because a planet can support life does not mean it will. First you need a reproducing organism to assemble itself by pure chance, then you need favorable conditions which last billions of years to allow evolution to produce complex intelligent life forms like ourselves. I agree we wont really know until we look properly, but it just seems to me the chances of other intelligent life existing so close to our own solar system is extremely slim.

www.bluelight.org... 14376-Ketamine-has-LITERALLY-let-me-time-travel-but-now-I-m-stuck-here www.reddit.com... www.bluelight.org...

so they have the ability to travel in time, develop advance propulsion systems, and technology beyond our imagination; yet the one thing these 'aliens' cant seem to master is reproduction...

lest i remind you, us lowly humans are already cloning biological life, and modifying dna and even successfully used 3 different parties to help conceive... and this is all before we even know how many species actually exist on earth or have a cure for the common cold...
and somehow super advanced aliens can't tackle reproduction... and why dont they go back in a time when humans would worship them as gods upon landing on earth

a reply to: odzeandennz

so they have the ability to travel in time, develop advance propulsion systems, and technology beyond our imagination;

The propulsion mechanism is also the time manipulation mechanism, as I said a warp drive manipulates space-time. And it's not a way out fantastical thing, not too long ago NASA even released their own design for such a drive which has a much higher energy efficiency than all previous designs, you've probably seen it.

yet the one thing these 'aliens' cant seem to master is reproduction...

Considering that a large fraction of abductees report seeing rooms full of fetuses being artificially incubated, I'd say they have a fairly advanced understanding of genetics... why they require our sperm and eggs I could not tell you, but it doesn't necessarily imply they are unable to reproduce by themselves.

and why dont they go back in a time when humans would worship them as gods upon landing on earth

How do you know they haven't, I recall lots of stories of beings descending from the sky and being treated as gods. Also if other times lines do exist there could be many where they invaded, some future humans may still plan to invade us, that was a subject I discussed briefly in the other thread.

Impossible Physics: Meet NASA’s Design for a Warp Drive Ship

NASA Reveals Latest Warp-Drive Ship Designs

NASA’s ‘warp drive’ engine works and it could take humans to Mars in weeks

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

im not going to question NASA and new means of propulsion.
what doesn't add up is your theory on abduction. i just cant accept it at all. but that's just my stance on the topic.

why would aliens with the ability to travel in time dont just go back 3000 years, when there were no electronics or internet or military, or nukes, and abduct and experiment to their hearts (or whatever) content.

Very interesting thread,will be returning to it often to read.I am an abductee,and my youngest daughter actually recalls excruciating pain while confined to a chair,while a long needle was inserted into her abdomen.With her they used a very cheap trick to keep her calm and comfort her during the procedure,in the form of a screen image.The whole "from the future" scenario is very interesting to me.

a reply to: odzeandennz

Two things have nearly completely discredited the entire field:

1) the Intelligence communities using "UFOs" as cover since
1946, and being caught doing so.

2) The whole abduction/rape/anal probing thing, which seems
more hypnagogic/psychological than anything else.

It makes having a credible post on UFO's / "abductions" very
difficult to pull off.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I have woken up with the very real injuries,needlemarks,bruises with needlemarks, i had an arm give me much pain and trouble not just on the morning of waking after the procedure i recall but for more than a year afterwards.Sprained muscles too.Milabs? Maybe.If Milabs they have some really cool funky lil drones delivering the dosages to be injected.

originally posted by: Raxoxane
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I have woken up with the very real injuries,needlemarks,bruises with needlemarks, i had an arm give me much pain and trouble not just on the morning of waking after the procedure i recall but for more than a year afterwards.Sprained muscles too.Milabs? Maybe.If Milabs they have some really cool funky lil drones delivering the dosages to be injected.

We know each other.

yes, there are military abductions ("Millabs").

yes, there are psychomatic effects for some very suggestible people.
for example, you can cause welts to appear with hypnosis.

yes, theoretically, the "phenomenon" could do this if it wanted to.

You might well be in the 5% of "real-ish" "abductions".

But no aliens are involved.. not in the classic sense.

We have discussed this at length.

Kev

a reply to: airowineSailorcat

What does ketamine have to do with the premise of this thread? I'm sure druggies are aware that whatever # they put into their bodies cause the weird trips.Is that not horse tranks btw? There are some of us who have a history since childhood of abduction experiences,without being junked up to facilitate said experiences.Strange post in context to the premise of this thread.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yes we know each other. I''m saying that Somethings or someones have been abducting me since childhood,my daughter too have been subject to some of it.I remember some of our discussions,was it in the first metacafe thread? Thing is,you are very sure,you have it all figured out in your mind,and i have not,so i still look at many options,possibilities.Not meant in a snarky way,Kev,but my life has been for the most part effed up and traumatised like a trainwreck because of these incursions.I survived,i am happy now,and strong.But i will never stop looking for answers,and so i look into,or consider many possibilities.

I am slowly being won over by the multiverse theory. Different worlds interlaced with one another. If this were the case time travel need not be a vehicle for them to interact with us. It would also answer the paradox of time travel, as to travel back and interact (Abductions etc.) would alter the future if there was only one timeline.
But with different worlds inhabiting the same space, therefore the same timeline, travelling from world A to world B and interacting with them would not alter world A timeline.
This would also explain why they are worried that if we destroy our world it might impact their world.
This would also explain sudden disappearances as it might only be a thin veil between worlds. Now the thing to discover (if a multiverse is real) is how to manipulate the "veil". Then faster than light travel, travelling vast distances, alien spacecraft need not be in the loop.

a reply to: Raxoxane

timetravel and ... meeting with aliens briefly pronuced. you might not able to read. and ....