House Intelligence FISA memo released: What it says

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Using the dossier at all when it was only minimally corroborated is an absurd level of corruption.

So far, we know things such as Page was in russia is true, which was public knowledge.

Thats about it regarding page.

Seeing as how this was a known paid for oppo research by trumps opponents, the threshold for it being used as the lynchpin for a fisa warrant to spy on trumps team should have had to be very high; not a document in its infancy of being confirmed.

And what if the ' minimally corroborated ' part was the relevant part?

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: FamCore

Sure I would be happy to say why using the dossier for a fisa memo would be a huge deal.

Here is part of what I wrote on my thread in October.

If this dossier was used to obtain Fisa warrants, it is one of the most corrupt things that I have ever seen in this country.

People mentioned how all sides including Trumps pay groups for opposition research, and how sometimes that can lead to an investigation. I agree with this. But those investigations are at least known to the public. For example, the possible uranium one deal investigation. Everyone knows this is going to happen. Now imagine instead of this being made public, the info was given to trump who then got Fisa warrants, and surveyed his political opponents, without their knowledge. It would be an outrage.

Lets look at all the ways this is disgusting.

First, the dossier has disgusting allegations that have nothing to do with crimes (pee story), was written in a very amateur way, and has parts that can be proven false in a very short period of time (Cohen meeting in Prague). For this then to be used to survey a political opponents campaign for President is insane. The threshold for something like this has to be immensely high, or else every sitting president can utilize the intel community against their opponent.

Next is the fact that as incredibly bad as getting the secret warrants to survey his opponent would be, Obama then went out of his way to make sure this info was shared with as many intel people as possible, which all but assured leaks to the press. A situation like this involving a candidate for President is so serious that it should be kept as tight lipped as possible, but Obama did the opposite.

Obama also told European allies that Trump may have shady connections to the Kremlin, thereby jeopordizing relationships with these countries in the event that Trump won.

All of this is unique and the most authoritarian, election influencing action I have ever heard of.

The precedent has now been set for a sitting Presidents party to pay foreign agents to go to countries that we are rivals or enemies with, get any kind of poorly written or scandalous info from that countries agents about the other parties candidate, then without the other party knowing it, get Fisa warrants to investigate and survey them with the FBI, spread that info far and why and to make sure it gets leaked to the press, and even tell allies about it.

In effect, this makes the FBI a tool for the sitting party to act as its own opposition research team; a team that can violate your rights and arrest you. It is the most Orwellian thing imaginable, and should be rejected in the strongest possible terms, and all of those responsible need to be held accountable.

5. Then there is the matter of the FBI itself. They were going to pay Steele to continue this research, which is unbelievable. Not only was the material Steele gave them scandalous, written poorly, and easily proven wrong in some parts, but they then decide they want more.

Think about this, the FBI has to know given the fact that this info could literally dictate who wins the Presidency, and possibly prove Russia trying to subvert that election, they had to know this is one of the most serious and difficult cases they would deal with. So they hire a foreign agent who was paid for by one of the candidates teams to go to russia and use russian sources to get more dirt? That is outrageous.

But it doesn't stop there. Now the FBI is stonewalling congressional subpoenas to testify as to this situation, and most importantly as to rather the dossier was used to get warrants. Every single American should be livid over this. This reeks of the FBI being a political tool. Not to mention all of the leaks that were coming out of the FBI in the first place.

It seems as if the FBI is basically acting as its own entity that is not accountable to the people. We are talking about one of the most powerful agencies in the world, with the power to look into anyone life at a whim, possibly favoring one political party, and having no accountability to the people whatsoever. This is a nightmare.

Remember when Schumer said the intel community can get back at people that anger them?

And then is just one issue (though a large one) in a bunch of very questionable issues involving the FBI recently.

Do to all of those reasons, I believe that if (and thats a big if) this dossier was used to get fisa warrants, this is the biggest scandal I have ever seen, and the biggest threat to our system that I have ever seen.

People are worried about russia influencing our system (which they have every right to be) but that pales in comparison to how dangerous it would be to have a sitting party weaponize the FBI against political opponents.

Quoted in case people missed this post. Ty Very good post.

originally posted by: underwerks

How do you know some of the information in the dossier wasn't corroborated by the FBI?

And how do you know the dossier was the only thing used to get the FISA warrant? Serious questions.

It seems all this hangs on the dossier being entirely false and also the only piece of information used for the FISA warrant.

Is there any evidence of either of those, beyond this memo which has no evidence to back it up?

I've only read the memo once and fairly quickly, but IIRC, the memo suggests that info concerning Carter Page's trip to Moscow, which was included in the dossier, was used to apply for the FISA warrant, and the FBI used a Yahoo news story about Carter Page going to Moscow to corroborate that info.

However, it was Steele, himself, who shared that info with Yahoo for the story...so, obviously, it's not corroboration.

Like I said though...I just skimmed it pretty quickly, so if I am wrong about that, I hope someone will correct me.

originally posted by: Grambler
If it is true that the fisa warrant on page wouldnt have been approved without the dossier, it is the biggest political scandal of my lifetime.

I have been saying for months, that this would be Obama using paid for oppo research from his own party to spy on his opponent with the intel community, which is far more serious than something like watergate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not only that, Comey, McCabe, Rosenstein, Boente, Yates ALL knowingly withheld information from the FISA court when obtaining multiple warrants, including the fact that the DNC paid Steele $160k AND that he was on record saying he was 'desperate' for Trump not to be elected.

The DOJ and FBI obtained a warrant under false premise to spy on a political opponents campaign, working with a source that hated Trump and was paid for the Clinton campaign.

It doesn't get any dirtier than that.

A full investigation is now required, and most certainly via a special counsel as the DOJ and FBI cannot be trusted.

Honestly, I was hoping we were all magically wrong, and that the left was right about everything...

If this much corruption is shown in what was supposed to be the most democratic country in the world, what other countries can expect?

Damn, deep state is real

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soberbacchus

That carter page travelled to Russian when it was stated. Thats the only thing that has been found provable within the Dossier.

Meaning that what he did while there is, from a legal sense, made up.

Andrew McCabe admitted to the committee that the dossier was an essential component of the FISA warrant. That means that, whatever else they had, did not reach the level of probable cause, and they knew it. This is exactly equivalent to a cop planting drugs on a suspect because "You know he's guilty anyway."

originally posted by: Xcathdra

FusionGPS and Christopher Steele. They shopped it around to media outlets. It is why Grassley referred an 18 USC 1001 (lying to the FBI) charge against Steele to the DOJ. Steele told the FBI he had no media contact. Apparently, in his deposition taken in the United Kingdom to a British court at the US judge request, he admitted to providing the info to media outlets.

Thank you, this is why Grassley drafted a criminal referral for Steele then.

How convenient for him he is not a U.S. Citizen.

originally posted by: Grambler
If it is true that the fisa warrant on page wouldnt have been approved without the dossier, it is the biggest political scandal of my lifetime.

I have been saying for months, that this would be Obama using paid for oppo research from his own party to spy on his opponent with the intel community, which is far more serious than something like watergate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You were 100% spot on man.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Fisrt the Papadoplous being used to start the investigation is a scandal in its own right.

You mean that a periphery guy getting drunk, and saying what thousands of people had been saying, that russia may have had emails from hillary, is why the investigation was started? That is absurd.

As far as the dossier, if its true McCabe testified that there would have been no fisa warrant without the dossier, that is the nail in the coffin.

As far as page being out of trumps team when the warrant was issued, remember, they tried to get it earlier and were denied.

And even though page wasnt on the team, they could see everything he said about the campaign, and would have possibly still been talking with people in the campaign.

If the things outlined in the memo are true (which the biggest part of Mccabe testifying without the dossier there would have been no warrant would be easy to prove) then it is damning.

Couple things I want to point out.

This Fisa warrant was renewed 3 or 4 times.

Even if the FBI did not know the dossier was "salacious and unverified" - James Comey, when they initially applied for it, they definitely knew it was when they were renewing it the third and fourth times. Steele was fired from the FBI shortly after the initial filing meaning they already started to know he was unreliable as soon as late October.

Second - The Papadapolous supposed interaction was reported by a Hillary Clinton foundation donor, which is what kicked off the initial investigation - and likely also fed into this warrant. So it seems to me it is highly likely Hillary got all of this Russia stuff started in one way or another.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Using the dossier at all when it was only minimally corroborated is an absurd level of corruption.

Minimally appears to be an adjective provided by the GOP Staff.

But thank you for admitting that even the GOP generated Pro-Trump Op-Ed of a "Memo" explains the Dossier was "Corroborated" to some extent at the time of the warrant.

You were mistaken when you summarized the Memo claiming the Dossier was not corroborated.
According to the memo it was corroborated. We can debate how much when we get a full view of the intelligence.

So far, we know things such as Page was in russia is true, which was public knowledge.

Thats about it regarding page.

Nope. The Dossier claimed he met with Igor Sechin to discuss trading a stake in the Rosneft Oil Deal in trade for Trump lifting US Sanctions.

Carter Page said it was a complete fabrication at the time.

Under Congressional testimony (Transcripts public)
He has now admitted he met with Sechin's #2 while in Moscow, discussed the Rosneft deal and discussed US Sanctions, but he would not elaborate.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: Grambler
Link to the text of the memo.

www.axios.com...

Thanks for the link.

It's pretty much what I expected though I thought there would be more details. Didn't expect that it would confirm that the counterintelligence investigation was actually opened because of the Papadopoulos intel from Australia.

There's a whole lot of opinion. That the info from Steele (I'm seriously doubting they attached a copy of *the* dossier) about Page was "essential." The last paragraph is where they try to make a case for some political motivation in obtaining the FISA warrant but it's just a bad synopsis of the opinions about the Strzok text messages we've seen.

It does answer the question as to when the FISA warrant was obtained (October 21, 2016) and it's months later than I had expected.

This is an important detail.

An "essential" part of the allegations that have been, are being made and will be made is "...to spy on the Trump campaign."

Except Carter Page had resigned from the campaign a month earlier. September 26th: Trump Campaign Adviser Steps Down While Disputing Claims Of Russia Ties

So this is where it gets really bad for the FBI....Strzoks text about the insurance policy was in August....FISA was granted in October and McCabe signed for it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: DBCowboy

It better damn well change.

From the FEC investigating the DNC and that party.

To cleaning house at the FBI and DOJ.

How many leftists are saying, "Gee, the memo is right. We need to clean up our act and clean house!"

None.

Probably about the same number as righties looking at how badly the fisa program has failed for decades to protect unlawful warrants.


In other words it's doing its job. Pulling voters into their boxes.

This is about America right? Or no its about the Democrats?

Thus memo udermines a serious problem and that is the fisa courts themselves.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The same people would scream zeter and mordio if Turmp had done anything remotely like this. I think the 8 page criminal referral that is hopefully going to be released soon will shed more light on the cockroaches. The top brass of the FBI and DoJ conspired to remove a duly elected POTUS to help HRC. This is not a partisan issue. This goes against the constitution.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
All those talking heads on the news, saying the memo won't be released, or it will be redacted, just collectively did this...

Oh we all know better with Trump involved... There is zero security issues with this memo to actually have the need to redact names, and if Trump is willing to tweet as he does I don't think he cares about being a lifelong professional politician where he would fill the need to check his words and actions to ensure a lifetime in office.

I think we are in strange waters where we have a 3rd party now in office that is willing to do what no other "professional" politician in either party has been willing to do no matter how right it would be.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: DBCowboy

It better damn well change.

From the FEC investigating the DNC and that party.

To cleaning house at the FBI and DOJ.

How many leftists are saying, "Gee, the memo is right. We need to clean up our act and clean house!"

None.

Well, we do need to clean up our act and clean house... the problem is we don’t agree on who the villains are.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: soberbacchus

That carter page travelled to Russian when it was stated. Thats the only thing that has been found provable within the Dossier.

Meaning that what he did while there is, from a legal sense, made up.

He denied meeting with representatives of Rosneft or associates Igor Sechin or Discussing US Sanctions or a Stake in an Oil Deal.

All things the Dossier claimed.

All things that he has now admitted and is part of the official congressional transcript.

You post is false.

Actually, no it isn't. My post replied to your question about what WAS corroborated.

Excerpted from your post, which I replied to:

You say corroboration of the Dossier was in it's infancy.
You say also the dossier was minimally "Corroborated" at the time.
(Note I read both of the same things in the memo)

THEN you say "the dossier was not corroborated".

Which is it?

You have decided to move the goal posts so you can strut around the hen house acting like you have done something to be proud of. The reality: my post is accurate, and answered your question.

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: Grambler
If it is true that the fisa warrant on page wouldnt have been approved without the dossier, it is the biggest political scandal of my lifetime.

I have been saying for months, that this would be Obama using paid for oppo research from his own party to spy on his opponent with the intel community, which is far more serious than something like watergate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Does the memo say anything about Carter Page already being under. FISA warrant since 2014, prior to the Steele Dossier due to his involvement with known Russian spies? The FISA warrant was renewed since then, and the dossier was merely corroborating evidence that Carter still needed surveillance.

Here. The Washington Examiner from August 2017: Link

The warrant from page in 2014 was long since done.

In fact, the FBI attempted to get a fisa warrant on page in the summer of 2016, and in an almost unprecedented move, was denied by the court.

So the 2014 warrant is irrelevant.

It would be like me getting a warrant in 2014 to go into a drug dealers house, and then using that as an excuse to be improper about getting another warrant in 2016.

a reply to: AboveBoard

No. He’s been under surveillance since 2014.

Because it isn't true.

The FBI obtained a secret court order last summer to monitor the communications of an adviser to presidential candidate Donald Trump, part of an investigation into possible links between Russia and the campaign, law enforcement and other U.S. officials said.

DX

a reply to: Grambler

the question I have now, is can Trump be guilty of obstructing an investigation that should have never happened?

ETA: I am questioning the entire premise of the Muler investigation at this point.