When the FBI gets too big for its britches...

I think there are still good people in the agencies and government it's just that the top brass was corrupted. There are something like 6,000 members of the CFR spread throughout the federal government, and they occupy the highest levels like GS 17 and above.

Those are who need to be cleared out, empower the regular employees, encourage them and let them know that the people still think they can do a good job.

These are the crooked folks here: swprs.files.wordpress.com...

$0.02

a reply to: diggindirt
Do you not believe in the Rule of Law, and the Constitution of the USA? Are you ready to throw away what our founding fathers have given to their descendants the very idea of what has been a good system of government within document that we all look to and guides the governance of the country?

Do you not think that a person or group or even a department is entitled to to be innocent until proven guilty?

Now you have Trey Gowdy, who is an experienced prosecuting attorney, I would say gave bad advice to Nunes and the President. Any lawyer would tell you, the last thing that a prosecuting attorney would want is to have any investigation released before the court case. The moment it does, good luck getting a conviction, cause now it can be argued that the jury has been biased against the defendant. And Trey Gowdy did work on this memo.
Now here is what I would want to know, why did he not open hearings into the misconduct of the DOJ and the FBI? He is the head of the oversite committee, this is the one committee that can call a department into congress and hold them accountable for their actions. Why didn’t he?

You mention Hillary Clinton, but here is the sad fact about that. It is due to an over zealous politicians, seeking to do a political witch hunt, in an effort to damage her that has failed to get anything that can convict her on anything. Make no mistake, I know the woman has skeletons in her closet, and that she is no angle or saint. But if after all of the investigations, if after all of the years of being looked, at, investigated and lied about don't you think that anything would have been found? Or would you have a person convicted merely on hearsay and no evidence what so ever, bypassing that Innocent until proven guilty? Perhaps if they stop starting rumor, and lying about what is found, and tampering with evidence, the truth can finally be seen. But any good attorney will tell you, that if the Prosecutor tampers with the evidence, the case goes foul and the person walks free. And that is what has happened with Hillary, every time they get close to anything, someone on the side going after her, makes that very mistake, they tamper or lie and thus destroy their own case, and the woman, walks free.

Remember Trey Gowdy, the man who ran the Benghazi hearing. He is an experience prosecutor, who knows all of the rules, but he tampered with the evidence, and even admitted that there was nothing that anyone could have done or gotten there to help as fast as was needed. His very handling of that investigation, showed, why Hillary, for any crimes, will never be prosecuted. And what is far worse, is that they hold her to a higher standard, while doing the exact same thing. And when it is brought up about them doing the same thing, then they cry foul. You cannot have it both ways, nor can one turn around and prosecute one person for one crime and give a free pass to the other person.


But back to the point at hand, this memo. It was done by very few, all Republican party, giving no new information, most of it is known, and accusing the FBI and the DOJ of something serious. And since it was Trump who nominated and got into office 2 new people, why were they not brought in and then told of these allegations? Sessions and Wrey should have the courtesy of such, and to allow to start the process of cleaning up the mess and the investigation. This is not to clean up a mess, it is for politics and the public stage. If it was to clean up a mess, then why are there no hearings going on right now? The republicans have control over the Congress, why can’t they start hearings right now to get answers?


By the way, I am an independent, I vote who I think will do the best job in congress, trusting no politicians ever, cause they all have an agenda that is not always the best for the country.

originally posted by: Nickn3
Too many secrets and too much BS, I am so tired of the Bull Sh!t. I want the facts for the people and let the people decide the truth. The US government has been out of control for years. If Trump's guilty he should hang, if Hillary is guilty she should hang, if Jim Comey is guilty he should hang, ect, ect, ect.

It's' time to choose the lamp posts and get out the real ropes.

Or as I wrote in another thread:

Pass out cigarettes and blindfolds

That sentiment may be (mostly) in jest, but I don't take this treason lightly. Although I'm perfectly inclined to see this move through the appropriate lawful channels. The only condition is that it must proceed through those channels. There is no "free pass" on this. It is either handled, or the very notion of justice in this country will become a provable farce. And when a system loses legitimacy.. well, clearly that is a major Earth-shattering scenario we'll have to look at if & when it happens.

You SAME people were praising the FBI when Comey sent his letter to Congress about Hilary's emails...

Yall FORGOT about this moment?



Yeah.

a reply to: sdcigarpig
I state my position as succinctly as is possible for me. I have no control over what enters your head upon reading those words. i have no idea where you get such wild ideas (well, I do have an idea but...) concerning my love of liberty and justice for all.

We are all well-acquainted with these Democrat talking points provided to you by msm. Post at will but don't expect much response.

My greatest hope would be that Trump's draining of the swamp would totally destroy both political parties by exposing the conspiracies against the very people who pay their salaries. I'd really like to see about five or six parties arise from the ashes of these revelations.

Michelle says we have hope....that's my hope. I hope that there are enough honest people left in DC to make a clean sweep. I don't know if that's a false hope or not but I do know that on the local level those sorts of revelations can cause an entire county government to be changed---at the polls. No mudslinging, just the showing the documents to the voters and letting them make up their minds. I also know that it takes a heap of work to gather that kind of documentation and figure out the angles, two years in the case of which I speak. So I'm patient, perfectly willing to see these investigations proceed. How many bushels of poison fruit will these investigations turn up?

originally posted by: Wildbob77
I guess the real question is who is policing the Police.

At this point, too often, they pretty much police themselves, from the smallest city police department to the FBI.

Where is the over site when a warrant is requested? If a police agency requests a warrant and either omits information or otherwise is less then fully truthful in obtaining a warrant what happens not only to the person(s) that this warrant is issued against but also what happens to the police involved in obtaining the warrant?

In theory, any charges against a person based on a warrant obtained with false evidence would be dismissed -- if known, of course. The only recourse for someone who had been wrongly accused in such a way would be a civil lawsuit. The person wrongly charged would have no recourse to have the offending officers arrested. I believe that a criminal case could be made by the proper authorities, but I doubt that happens very often.

This of course flies in the face of all those law enforcement people who play by the rules but it seems to me there has to be independent over site of these types of issues as well as punishment when a warrant is obtained under shady circumstances

Generally speaking, we need much greater oversight and accountability over all law enforcement. For all kinds of poor policing -- even criminal "policing." Unfortunately, this is a battle that continues...

What I've learned from researching these things is that by far and large, the vast majority of LEOs are good LEOs -- conscientious and honest and with a servant's heart. They truly want to help and serve their fellow man. The problems we see are pretty much confined to a relatively few officers in a relatively few departments. And in those departments, the rot starts at the top. The cops on the streets get away with what they do because the brass at the top lets it happen.

Much like with this FBI crap. These guys were at the very top, and policing themselves, and refusing any effort by congress to investigate -- much less provide oversight.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: Boadicea

I do want to give the people more power to hold elected officials accountable. However, I also want them to VOTE. And to limit the term that the elected person remains in office.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Nothing hard to understand about that... but this is the first you've addressed my many comments about giving people more power. Hard to "understand" what I don't know, eh?

I never believe any politician when they speak, they never tell the whole truth. If they did, the other guy would be elected in a landslide. And all politicians lie and will say anything to sway the public to their side. And knowing that is the first thing that all people show know and understand. And once they do, it makes it far easier to decide and put a person into office for one term and then replace them.

Right. We cannot trust anyone to do what they say they will do. Period.

Hence, why we need much more than simply the power of the vote and term limits.

Proof the highest levels of Gov are undermining the public, lying to the populace and abusing their authority....UNDOUBTEDLY

And not ONE protest sign.


What does that tell you about the state of the country?

The powers that be know this, they know they dont have to worry.

Were too busy putting giant vaginas on our heads to worry about actual abuses and the destruction of our republic.

a reply to: SkeptiSchism

I think there are still good people in the agencies and government it's just that the top brass was corrupted.

Yup! That sums it up very nicely. The rot starts at the top.

I'm pretty sure that the rank and file employees -- especially LEOs at all levels/departments -- are doing their best. And I'm sure they see the rot even more clearly than we do. I'm sure they've been hoping and praying and waiting for someone to do something about it all!!!

For the rank and file FBI agents doing their job and doing it damn well, who have to deal with this corruption every day, I'll bet this is a happy day to see some accountability begin to happen.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Boadicea

But it does seem especially egregious when it's the hired guns that are too big for their britches.

Then NRA should challenge the FBI to a duel.

when youre done with your partisan bullcrap, let us know so we can all stand together for an actual cause.

This affects everyone regardless of political leaning.

get off your political bent.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
You SAME people were praising the FBI when Comey sent his letter to Congress about Hilary's emails...

Um... I have never praised Comey for anything ever. And I really didn't pay attention to who did praise him, and I have absolutely no idea if anyone who has commented was one of those persons.

So I'm not sure what you're even talking about. Well, actually, I have a pretty good idea. I'm pretty sure you're just lashing out and trying to find a moral relative to sooth your own angst.

Yall FORGOT about this moment?

Nope. Didn't forget.

Sometimes companies and agencies get too big and feel untouchable in whatever they do. That's not a bad thing. But getting to a point where you think you can get away with what you like with criminal activity is when you need to be brought down a peg or two.
Whether it be a leak or an investigaion, it weeds out the bad apples and only leaves those who want to do things right. For a short time. It's an endless circle of curruption that will always be there no matter how many Memo's and leeks get released.

There are some good people who work in some very high up jobs and do it very well. For every good honest worker, there is always one who will do anything to get it done.

a reply to: SailorJerry


Your points are well taken... VERY well taken... and I don't disagree. But as your example illustrates quite nicely, protests are now a joke -- and no doubt by design. "Protests" are big business now and are quickly hijacked by monied interests which of course takes it to an extreme where most reasonable people don't want to go. Which I think is much of the purpose.

And while protests are often used to bring attention to a matter, since everyone is well aware of these problems, any protest would have to have a specific demand or end goal. We can't just protest for an investigation. We've got a jillion of those and they're not getting results. But we cannot just demand that anyone and everyone accused be locked up and throw away the key. We have to respect the legal and judicial process or we're just as bad as the criminals we're trying to bring to justice.

I would love to see a national strike. Everyone refuse to do anything -- no working, no traveling, no shopping, no nothing. Start with one day... if we don't see progress, next time it's two days... if we still don't see progress, then we it's three days.

But we have a long long way to go before the people are united enough for that to happen.

So, yeah, I guess we're back to "Your points are well taken..."

originally posted by: rhynouk
Sometimes companies and agencies get too big and feel untouchable in whatever they do. That's not a bad thing. But getting to a point where you think you can get away with what you like with criminal activity is when you need to be brought down a peg or two.

Agreed. But they're right -- crony capitalism has resulted in rules and regulations and even laws that give corporations and politicians a free pass for what you and I would rot in jail for. They don't just think they can get away with it, they KNOW they can.

Congress critters in particular quite often exempt themselves from the laws they pass for the rest of us... like insider trading. Nothing good or right or fair about that!

Whether it be a leak or an investigaion, it weeds out the bad apples and only leaves those who want to do things right. For a short time. It's an endless circle of curruption that will always be there no matter how many Memo's and leeks get released.

It is an endless cycle, and one we must constantly guard against with appropriate laws/enforcement/consequences. While it's all fine and well to point out the bad behavior, we don't seem to do anything about it -- and too often, no remedies are offered. Or completely unacceptable "solutions" are offered. So those inequities and injustices are simply used to rile the people up into a whiny bitchfest that makes people feel good, even if nothing changes.

a reply to: SailorJerry

Public protests are paid events. Its all about advertising to gain critical mass and bussing in people to steer the group.

Protesting happens on social media in 2018. And theres quite a lot going on right now

a reply to: Boadicea

And how do you propose to give people more power in this Republic of the USA? Have us vote on each and every law that is proposed? Good luck with that one, cause as I stated close to half of the eligible voting population does not get out and vote.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: Boadicea

And how do you propose to give people more power in this Republic of the USA? Have us vote on each and every law that is proposed? Good luck with that one, cause as I stated close to half of the eligible voting population does not get out and vote.

Hmmm... why such attitude if you think empowering the people is a good thing? Why such attitude if you think the people can and should do better?

I've already suggested a couple things in this thread. First, a return to the Citizen's Grand Jury, allowing the people to investigate government officials, including the power to subpoena witnesses and records and documents, and to charge government officials where appropriate and proper. I also suggested that we stop letting Congress exempt themselves and corporate interests from the laws they pass for the rest of us.

We re-educate the people on the rights, privileges and responsibilities of being a citizen -- especially a free citizen with the power of the vote. We use the citizen ballot propositions where possible to increase the power of citizens. We start a "Contract With Congress Critters" that makes clear demands for reforms by Congress, and demand their promise to get it passed... much like Newt Gingrich's "Contract for America" back in the '80s.

These are just a few ideas I've had. I'd love to hear more suggestions -- I'm open to better ideas. What would you suggest?

a reply to: Boadicea

I have made several suggestions, and that 1) People have to get involved in the civic process. It does no good to empower people with political power, if half or more are just going to sit back at home and let others do the work. When close to 1/2 the eligible voting population does not vote, that is the first and primary problem right there. All of this other stuff is secondary, if people are not willing to get involved in the civic process. They have to vote. Means that they have to think, and make decisions, and look things up. You want more power to the people that is the primary thing. A citizens grand jury, is fine, but if half the population is not willing to get involved, would it really matter?

2) I have heard it time and time again, it is time to put term limits on congress and all elected offices.

3) Make all elected positions have to write down why they voted for a bill, show their reasoning in writing, open for any and all to read and look at. The Judges, have to write down their reasons for why they ruled, so perhaps if congressmen were required, it would clear up much.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

1) People have to get involved in the civic process. It does no good to empower people with political power, if half or more are just going to sit back at home and let others do the work.

I believe Ghnadi and Rev. King would find disagreement with this statement. It is a defeatist attitude.

You will never have more than 10-15% of the general population who will work toward any worthy cause, political or civic. If 500 people sign up to help with one thing or another, don't expect more than 50 of them to show up and actually do something. Solving problems is hard work, most are not willing to put forth that much time and effort as long as someone else is willing to do it.

See, people who do get out there and do their best to solve the problems know what is possible. They don't sit back and blame all our problems on the fact that a large number of people aren't involving themselves.

My how the right has changed their tune.

A year ago...

Black Americans make the claim law enforcement is corrupt.

The right: You're a disgrace, respect law enforcement

Now...

Rich White Americans make the claim law enforcement is corrupt

The right: You're right, down with law enforcement.