Aziz Ansari responds to sexual assault allegation: 'I was surprised and concerned'

a reply to: fiverx313

You read a story and even in that story it's pretty questionable.

It's funny people used to be a little more particular about going to someone's house on a first date but hey it can't be about judgement I guess.

Personally I hope my daughters know when a guy asks them back to their place on a first date it's a pretty stupid move.

Even in movies when someone asks "do you want to come up for drinks" what that means. But hey Maybe that's old fashioned.

Like a groupie going on the tour bus for instance.

a reply to: Annee

I hope so..this is exactly the kind of thing to disredit the massive abuses there actually are.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: fiverx313

You read a story and even in that story it's pretty questionable.

It's funny people used to be a little more particular about going to someone's house on a first date but hey it can't be about judgement I guess.

Personally I hope my daughters know when a guy asks them back to their place on a first date it's a pretty stupid move.

Even in movies when someone asks "do you want to come up for drinks" what that means. But hey Maybe that's old fashioned.

Like a groupie going on the tour bus for instance.

maybe it's harder to understand if you're a man, but sometimes you can think you might like to make out with someone and maybe have sex, and then they immediately are pushing past everything you're comfortable with, too fast, and making you feel weird. when you're already partly naked in someone's house and they're pushing and pushing at you, it can feel dangerous to boldy contradict them. i hope your daughters will be aware of this kind of thing but i don't think you have that wisdom or experience to share with them, unfortunately.

there's an argument to be made for getting to know someone better first, but it's not purely a 'ooh that was bad judgment' either. this story sounds like a very creepy situation with a guy who's gotten it in his head that he's about to get his dick wet and can't get his mind on any other track despite a LOT of clear signals that he should take it down a #ing notch. men are responsible for their behavior, too.

this line of argument that men will try to get what they want so women need to do X, Y, and Z reminds me a lot of the attitude that companies aren't obligated to pay an ethical living wage if they can legally get away with not doing so. the system is not immutable. men are not free from responsibility just because they get erections. and i am really disappointed in aziz.

a reply to: fiverx313


And I call B.S. to all that..

He is a celebrity first off..

Second it's your choice to ignore the signs or get caught up in his celebrity or charm.

And make better choices.

As a "stupid" man I have never once offered to have a woman by herself come to my home on a first date.

If you find yourself in the situation where you have now led the guy on that it's heavy make out time and you don't speak out you should own your mistake. However it makes you feel. It certainly ly isn't grounds for a formal letter after the fact.

What's next women who get on rock and rap tour busses?

How about people who regret tattoos can they now blame tattoo artists..

This muddies the water for the women abused at work every damn day and the women getting drugged on campuses every day.

Hollywood has changed the whole sexual landscape in one quick stroke of the social norm paint brush. If you look at Weinstein the man is most likely in total shock. No matter how you see his actions they were actions that he did for decades with all of Hollywood having zero problems with. For every woman that had issues with him there was a 100 willing to do anything, you know Hollywood...right? They didn't joke about the casting couch for nothing, and comedians didn't joke about old Harvey chasing everyone around, as they all laughed.

Now in their best performance they give a "oh the horrors" act with an Oscar just waiting. All bubby buddy with Weinstein and now all trying to get on the #andmetoo band wagon, I'm sure the guys feel left out...

So what do we have now? We have a new social norm that saying NO is not enough, we all once thought NO meant NO and after that point it was inappropriate up to illegal if one was to continue. Today we have a case where YES could have been said/acted on, but looking back in retrospect it is now seen as a NO. In the case of Ansari the woman said she went back to his Appt and didn't really want sex with him so they just had quick oral sex....is that a YES or a NO, it seems it is a NO because now she says she really didn't want to do it back then. So she went on another date with him' and back at his room again' and HE TRIED AGAIN!!! Why didn't he know the blowjob the first time was already a NO!

These are career ending accusations, with nothing more than the statement and you are done. They even had to come up with a different term for this maybe a YES, but in reality it is now a NO looking back. We refer to it as "sexual misconduct". Not necessary illegal, but now immoral...I guess.

Just remember men as we move forward, NO still means NO, but a blowjob can mean NO too years later that costs you your career, so I would at least get it in writing prior to any form of touching, courting, dating etc that some word, like a safety word should be agreed a pond to by both parties since now NO can mean anything that a person wants it to be. I suggest a good safety word is "Armageddon"...It has worked well for others in the past.

originally posted by: fiverx313


well, i read her story. it sounded pretty clear to me that she was trying to dial things down and he kept trying to dial them back up.

Well I read her story too on the site that ran the exclusive, and I agree with you, she definitely tried to do just that, and he definitely tried to dial them back up. I completely agree.

However - and this is what complicates the picture a bit - according to herself, after she started giving of non-verbal cues to dial things down, she performed oral on him.

Twice.

Both times after giving of non-verbal cues to dial things down and, importantly, neither time does she indicate (to the reader) that it was in anyway coerced. The first time "he asked for her to do it so she did" and the second time "he pointed and motioned for her to do it so she did."


That of course entitles him to NOTHING, let's be clear about that, but I *can* see how non-verbal cues to dial things down can be interpreted very differently than intended, when followed by what I honestly think most people - both men and women - would see as a non-verbal cue to continue.


So yeah, it is pretty clear to us reading her story, that she tried to dial things down, but (to me at least) it is less clear to what extent we can expect it to be clear for him.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Come on, once a wummun finds out it's all boggle eyed internet politics talking points he wont have a cat in hell's chance anyway .

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: fiverx313


well, i read her story. it sounded pretty clear to me that she was trying to dial things down and he kept trying to dial them back up.

Well I read her story too on the site that ran the exclusive, and I agree with you, she definitely tried to do just that, and he definitely tried to dial them back up. I completely agree.

However - and this is what complicates the picture a bit - according to herself, after she started giving of non-verbal cues to dial things down, she performed oral on him.

Twice.

You know a good way to dial it all to a stop is to say "I'm sorry, I'm leaving" and then leave... then do not have a second date.... BTW I did a lot of dating in my younger years and I would say that finding a woman willing to give a blowjob on the first date would have been rather rare.... just saying...lol

Honestly, I think all women should just carry guns in their purse, and allow the gun to say no if they are feeling pressured. Unable to muster the words? Just pull out your pistol, and it will be quite clear, "not tonight".

I am in good confidence that will end any ambiguity or confusion on the matter. Or just grab your taser whatever. Woman have purses, I don't see why more of you ladies don't carry some kind of weapon in there. Naked force solves more conflicts in history than dialogue.

originally posted by: luthier
Even in movies when someone asks "do you want to come up for drinks" what that means. But hey Maybe that's old fashioned.

These days in the movies they say, "You wanna get out of here?"

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
Honestly, I think all women should just carry guns in their purse, and allow the gun to say no if they are feeling pressured. Unable to muster the words? Just pull out your pistol, and it will be quite clear, "not tonight".

Problem is that if you pull a gun you better be ready to use it, or it will be taken away from you and used on you. Even ordinary folks don't care to have guns pulled on them, and will likely react badly to it.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Right which usually meant let's do it or no I have to work, wash my hair etc...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: fiverx313


well, i read her story. it sounded pretty clear to me that she was trying to dial things down and he kept trying to dial them back up.

Well I read her story too on the site that ran the exclusive, and I agree with you, she definitely tried to do just that, and he definitely tried to dial them back up. I completely agree.

However - and this is what complicates the picture a bit - according to herself, after she started giving of non-verbal cues to dial things down, she performed oral on him.

Twice.

You know a good way to dial it all to a stop is to say "I'm sorry, I'm leaving" and then leave... then do not have a second date.... BTW I did a lot of dating in my younger years and I would say that finding a woman willing to give a blowjob on the first date would have been rather rare.... just saying...lol

I don't think I've ever been on a first date where something didn't happen.

Maybe I'm young?

a reply to: luthier
I would give you a heaven full of stars for that post if possible.

As a "stupid" man you seem to have grasped the situation pretty well. Perhaps that makes me a "stupid" woman.

Seems that any little thing to divide us is the focus. I absolutely abhor this narrative that claims that women can't simply say "NO" and walk away. Fear of losing one's job? Do you really want to work for an abuser? Seriously? Maybe the arrested development of children would explain this...I only know that by the time I was sixteen and in the work place I had enough sense to walk out the door when my boss started his harassment crap. I went straight to his boss because I had sense enough to know that his behavior was way out of line. But that was back in the days of "I am woman, hear me roar!" Apparently today's version of feminism teaches how to be a victim rather than empowerment. Victim-hood is easier and gets more press.

a reply to: luthier
Double post removed.

a reply to: Blue Shift
well if the situation is sincere and the "alleged aggressor in power" lunges, pull the trigger. IIR, people do not shed tears for rapists. If no means no, shoot them when they do not listen/ I don't like having guns pulled on me either, which is why I do not force myself on to people.

Aziz would have put his hands up, turned around and said "woah hey hey, ok my bad. lets call it a night ok??"

I don't understand why she performed oral sex on him multiple times if she didn't want to?

It's not like his penis flew into her mouth and began to wriggle around all by itself. He pointed to it and she gobbled it up.

The guy should never have invited her to his apartment in the first place, and most definitely SHOULD HAVE LET HER CHOOSE THE COLOR OF THE WINE!

a reply to: seattlerat
I think a fair trade would simply be the ying yang. This way both parties are enjoying oral contact. Maybe he just could not get her to climax, and it pissed her off because she had great expectations. I firmly believe this to be the case honestly.

If she would have seen stars, this would have never been a story.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
If she would have seen stars, this would have never been a story.

Also if he had not been famous, successful and I assume well-off.

It's funny how leftist give him a pass for being a rapist. If he was a white guy his life would be over by now.