Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: ctj83

I remember it being posted on here that he was planning on giving away his research, I didn't realise that he had followed through so quickly...and then to change his mind and want it all back. Hmmm? My experience tells me that this is more a symptom of his age than indicative of anything more than a change of heart. Or possibly in his new venture he was reminded of something that he previously dismissed so he hadn't made a digital record and now he gets that it is more significant? That happens to me all the time which is why I never throw away my notebooks.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Vallee appears to have quietly pivoted on a number of beliefs he's held for decades, or he has found a way to integrate seemingly incongruent theories in a master framework.

One thing that disturbed me, and I've been unable to verify is that Vallee claimed he had been to see Billy Meier and concluded that there is no way he could fake some of his photos.

Then you look at the illustration Lazar did of the sports model and it is almost identical to some of Billy's alleged craft.

Finally, Vallee claims (backed up by LMH and others) that he was offered a live interview with an alien in the mid to late eighties. The two military men who approached him with this offer were Billy Believers.

One point of clarity. A while back, I mentioned Anglo Catholic. This does not mean a British Catholic. It is it's own church.

I think we should take a look at how BAASS was organised. It also looks like it was rapidly dissolved in Sept 2011 except for a few 'key' personnel.

There is a list of some BAASS Personnel and the roles fulfilled.

A number of those named there will be familiar to many. One of the roles did involve a Senior Data Analyst.

Senior Data Analyst

Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies
Date employed Mar 2009 - May 2010
Employment Duration 1yr 4mos
Locations Las Vegas
Database developer, tableau evaluation & reports.

It looks like that role only lasted for 16 months.

Also (again after circling back in the thread) by Sept 2011

Bigelow Aerospace, which is developing inflatable space habitats for commercial use, laid off some 40 of its 90 employees Sept. 29, a company official confirmed....

Source : space.com

So I think it is safe to say that a lot of those lay-offs were probably due to the BAASS contract ending.

However the "Program Manager" was still there until mid 2013

Company name Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies.
Dates Employed Dec 2007 - Jun 2013
Employment Duration 5 yrs 7 mos
Location Las Vegas, Nevada

* Program lead - novel and emerging space technologies targeting operational employment in 2040

* Directed and managed a team of 40 scientists, engineers, analysts, and researchers

* Business Development - initiated, developed, and directed critical collaborative contracts

* Tasked with international marketing of Bigelow Aerospace private space station

* Technical expert in advanced aerospace concepts and aerodynamics.

The number of personnel managed exactly matches the report lay-offs in 2011? Coincidence?

Something also impacted on Bigelow's operations in 2015 when further lay-offs occurred.

“In December of 2015, we analyzed the amount of staff that we employed throughout all of our departments at Bigelow Aerospace, and discovered that numerous departments were overstaffed,” Bigelow said ...

The company did not disclose how many people were laid off. Industry sources estimated that between 30 and 50 people lost their jobs, and that the company had more than 150 employees at the time of the layoffs...

“For sixteen years, Bigelow Aerospace has functioned nearly exclusively as a research and development company,” he said. “Starting in 2016, our intent is to behave in more of a financially responsible manner seeking to generate revenues as well as maintaining financial practicality on operating expenses.”

Source : spacenews.com

The above appears to be due to a change in operations and also suggests Bigelow is distancing himself from certain aspects of "research". It also coincides with his decision to sell up 'the ranch" and the emergence of TTSA.

I think most of the above signals that the Pentagon spokesperson was being accurate when they said the AATIP/BAASS project only lasted 2 years.

“After a while the consensus was we really couldn’t find anything of substance.They produced reams of paperwork. After all of that there was really nothing there that we could find. It all pretty much dissolved from that reason alone—and the interest level was losing steam. We only did it a couple years....”

Source : Politico

The Solicitation for the Contract states

The term of the contract is from Date of Award through September 30, 2009. The contract will have four one-year options, for the period of September 29, 2008 through September 30, 2013

My guess is that from 2009 - mid 2011 was when the project was fully active. After that some winding down activities occurred. With only one or two senior personnel left to wrap things up. As we know Zondo has claimed the AATIP project continued without funding until he left the Pentagon in 2017 and may even still operate to this day. But BAASS had not been involved for a a good five years at least. So what was he doing for all this time and why did he change his mind and leave in 2017? That is of course if he really did leave. He may well have taken "Deferred Retirement" but could also be employed as a "company" contractor for all we know.

It also seems, on the surface anyway, that Bigelow is no longer actively funding what were once his 'pet' projects.

a reply to: mirageman

“After a while the consensus was we really couldn’t find anything of substance.They produced reams of paperwork. After all of that there was really nothing there that we could find. It all pretty much dissolved from that reason alone—and the interest level was losing steam. We only did it a couple years....Source: www.politico.com...”

A billionaire-obsessive with the topic funds a large team of world-class minds and comes to this conclusion; however this gets little news coverage at all really, while every hubcap on a string gets vast coverage.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The biggest thing missing from ufology is honesty....

If there was honesty in ufology, I suspect ufology wouldn't exist...

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think that the statement is a little misleading without the context Colm gave it. The problem they found was that they could not conduct any sort of scientific process against the phenomena. Which in the words of the Collins Elite is a preternatural sentient Phenomena. Or in Colonel Alexander's excellent summation a Precognitive Sentient Phenomena.

My guess is that you can't apply science to the phenomena, because it is not a natural rules based system. It's a little like trying to analyse a game of battleships using the scientific method whilst being unaware of the players. It's not a natural system, but it still obeys rules.

My point being, that the Phenomenology problem, whatever it is, is not a fundamental science problem. It's an 'intelligence' problem. In that, during the Cold War, scientific studies could only give answers to some potential problems. For instance, a new class of submarine and its capabilities. Science could only work on a subset of problems.

The real challenge was gathering useful intelligence data because you are playing against other minds.

a reply to: ctj83

Nice post.

Ultimately, we are playing against other people's unconscious minds.

I've been wondering for what? 5 or 10 years now? if you completely unhook the 'phenomenon' from the biological units creating it (human bodies), would it all just fade away? Does it have an independent existence from us?

We need to ask that question.

If every last christian in the world stopped believing in demons would they be gone? I think so. If every last Hindu stopped believing in Asura and Rakshasas would they go away? I imagine. If every last UFO believer stopped believing in UFOs would they go away? I think so.. other than in the sense of simple misidentifiations.

Now.. is it possible that some of these "group fields with tendrils into many humans" might someday break away and be fully independent? It's possible.. maybe it's already happened.. but humans created them in the first place.

Might this have happened billions of years ago with some other species in the Universe, and they now plague us too? That's possible, but it's better to stay focused on a human explanation first.. then if we completely understand that, then we can play 'bug hunt'.

My opinion anyway.

you can't apply science to the phenomena

Of course you can't. It only exists in your head.

I am getting more and more the impression that this "phenomenon" nonsense is a psychological experiment, to see how many people will fall for the idea and how far it will evolve in their minds.

The response here on ATS seem to be pretty good. But I guess that is to be expected.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The biggest thing missing from ufology is honesty....

If there was honesty in ufology, I suspect ufology wouldn't exist...

Indeed.

The main things missing from UFOlogy are indeed honesty---and of course UFOs.

Transient phenomena don't rise to the level of a 'UFO'; they are just sufficient to generate UFO reports, then they stop existing.

a reply to: moebius

The experiences I have had I'm pretty certain weren't in my head..but I cannot be 100% certain because I don't have a belief system to apply an answer to whatever the phenomenon is. I'm a normal bloke too, not a crazy lala person..which ironically makes it harder to apply logic and a scientific approach... It would be easier if I was as mad as a Box of frogs lol. But I agree, science can only take us so far... Or the science hasn't matured enough yet to explain it.

This is not an attack/reaction to your post Moebius..these kind of discussions are very good and needed.

a reply to: moebius

I'm with Pigsy on this one.

It would probably be better for our human civilization as a whole, if we just stopped this UFO madness, the religion madness, the spiritual madness... and if we all became rational, kind and helpful to our fellow humans and built something real that was sustainable and wonderful. In fact---if the abrahamic faiths would stop.. I'd happily stop UFOlogy. It's all the same thing.

Now all that said.. I cannot deny some of the phenomenon that have personally affected me.

But if ALL, and I mean ALL the ufotainers and frauds were to give up their nonsense, I'd happily cease my worthwhile research too.. just on the off chance that my worthwhile research was inadvertently feeding the mania.

This is the very reason I wrote the "Are UFOlogists Useful Idiots" thread.

So keep developing your observation! It's a valid thing to wonder.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Whatever humans do has its importance. Granted, some things are folly but underneath they have meaning.

Also, nature abhors a vacuum, in other words, without those things something else would take their place.

As they say be careful what you wish for

a reply to: mirageman

Sorry MM, your post got lost in some of the noise. There are some very good points there...

Some of the ex NIDS/BASS employees also went to work for Lockheed apparently too... I've their names, but would be a little rude to post people's identities etc..not my place, but it's out there if you look.

The Lockheed connections are interesting though....considering the TTSA connections

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hey Kev, have you ever suffered from autoimmune diseases or chronic inflammation?

I ask as part of my Missing411 crossover research.

a reply to: moebius

I’m not sure anyone on here buys “it”.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Whatever humans do has its importance. Granted, some things are folly but underneath they have meaning.

Also, nature abhors a vacuum, in other words, without those things something else would take their place.

As they say be careful what you wish for

I really like this response. It's true.. even 'evil' has its place... stupidity has it's place. If the abrahamic delusions/deceptions went away, they could easily be replaced by something worse.

I have to say in defense of the abrahamic faiths, that as vile and evil as they are.. they have mellowed over the years... at one time what I said about christiantiy say, would have gotten me immediate death; now it's more likely that islam will kill me than christianity... it's a newer religion.. it hasn't had time to mellow as much yet.

It's also good to point out something I think you believe deeply.. that 'right' and 'wrong' don't matter.. the definitions are endlessly changing.. everyone should be allowed the space to experience life and to work through their 'wrongness'.. you and I and everyone else, has spent our entire lives being 'wrong'.. everyone is entitled to the same space to undergo a journey of self-discovery.

the only caveat for that, is some belief systems are so vile and toxic to all life on Earth, that the people following them would benefit from being counseled about just how hate-filled and destructive their way is.. how indoctrinating their children in hate before they have a chance to experience free will is utterly vile. Of course these people also have the right to counsel me how 'destructive my way is' too, and I wouldn't deny them that right for anything.

a reply to: ctj83

Nope.

No rectal itching either.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

My conspiracy bone activating…TELLS ME:
Bigelow was given the 22 million as a payoff for high jacking Mufon for the government.

a reply to: pigsy2400

As did your post get lost amongst the noise when you said

....That why I mentioned the modifications to the buildings, maybe highly secure areas to store servers and the database.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Although I suspect that given the short lifespan of BAASS that new servers were probably not required. Even 7-8 years ago data could be easily been stored remotely in government approved facilities on already secured servers.

It isn't hard to track some of the names of these ex-BAASS employees. But I'd prefer not to name people either unless there is proof beyond reasonable doubt that they are linked to TTSA.

We shouldn't forget this post either.. But it's difficult to focus attention on any particular thing in threads like this. Although at least it's a vegetable free zone so far

a reply to: Willtell

MUFON appears to have been compromised for sure. That probably goes back a long time. They even allowed Zondo to speak at their last symposium.

But we only need to go back decades to see that Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, the first Director of the CIA, was a NICAP board member from 1957 until 1962.

New century, same old tactics it seems.