Indiana commissioner cites Bible verse while voting to end lifesaving needle exchange program

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: DanDanDat

No, that would be giving them Heroin. That's not what's happening. We're giving them clean needles. Which would be like giving drunks a ride home from the bar.

Ok come pick me up and take me to the store I'll buy it my self.

So you're complaining that your friends/family never drive you to the store to buy wine, when you've been drinking?

Says more about your friends and family.

originally posted by: NthOther
I stopped reading when I saw Raw Story in bold.

Knew right away it was a vitriolic anti-religion hit piece.

Yawn. You hate God and everyone who believes in Him. We get it. We really do.

Move on with your life.

I do, that's not a hidden statement.

GOD can bite me.

originally posted by: Tempter
Heroine users can rot for all I care. My best friend died of a her ion overdose three years ago.

So.... Your so called best friend can rot?

Nice.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

Im #

Fixed your quote.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
keep religion out of politics.

NO!!!! It helps save my taxes from being spent on useless filth.

I read it on page 1.

originally posted by: neo96
Someone explain to me how enabling drug use is 'life saving'.

Please by all means.

Addicts who shoot up are at tremendous risk of contracting HIV and Hep C, and other bloodborne pathogens via dirty needles. Syringes are not easy to obtain. Pharmacies reserve the right to refuse the sale of them at their discretion without a prescription, and in some areas a prescription is required by law.

These people are addicts. They are in an altered mental state. They want a fix, they will use a dirty needle...it is physically painful for them when they need a fix. They'll do anything to stop that.

They also reuse their needles. Bacteria, skin flora, dead skin cells, dried onto a used needle and then reintroduced into the bloodstream is an enormous portal for infection. Direct contamination into the bloodstream can be fatal within a matter of days without medical treatment. If they're passed out in a stupor, by the time they realize something is wrong with them, it's often too late.

These people are not going to take measures to make sure they're tested for infectious diseases every six months. They'll infect other people through needle sharing or sex, or other means.

If they have access to clean, sterile packaged syringes, they will be less likely to use other people's rigs or reuse their own dirty needles. It reduces the risk of spreading pathogens that can kill people.

You can't stop these people from using. Even if they want to quit, it's a process. It's not just a habit, like nail biting or overeating. It's a chemical addiction and if they've gotten to the point of shooting up, there is a very real and serious threat of death if they don't get their next dose, from withdrawal symptoms.

Ever seen a junkie sitting against a wall shaking like they're about to have a seizure? I have. People step right over them like they're a piece of trash lying on the sidewalk. If they're bad enough into withdrawal, they'll die. And no one will notice.

So the idea is to give them access to clean supplies. It can save their lives and the lives of everyone within their immediate contact. It can further save potential lives of people who are at risk of being victims of robbery for medical supplies, like pharmacy staff or medical personnel. They lock up the meds and syringes in hospital emergency rooms for a very good reason.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Tempter

Ok fine. I'm glad that you found a powerful enough experience to push you away from that lifestyle too. Not everyone is so lucky to have such a thing happen to them however. Maybe you should start a program to teach addicts how to do it too. Might help them as well.

But the point here is that from an outside perspective of what is good for society. Clean needles is a better option over all. Even for you, before you had your OOBE and were using, it's better off for everyone if you at least did so with a clean needle. Ideally the best option is for you to not use at all, but until you can get there to at least use in a safe and clean way. Better for everyone that way. Better for you, me and society at large.

I'm glad you think the worst experience of my life is what's best for me.

You think I wanted to come back to this body? I'm only in it right now because I chased that demon away to a corner. He's he still here. The whole time...

This is torture.

I was better off dead. All junkies are.

Those who can be saved aren't living with a demon.

There's no saving.

I know how this ends and where I'm going.

I'm just here for the ride.

a reply to: NthOther

You hate God

This commissioner from Indiana uses the Bible, a 2000 year old document, set back in ancient times, a religious document he worships upon, to make a legislative, government, decision over his residents. Many of whom are not necessarily christian or religious.

This doesn't disturb you, and anybody who disagrees hates God.

a reply to: Subrosabelow

I'd rather pay for clean needles out of my taxes for an addict than paying for a lifetime of treatment for Hep C or HIV, or a liver transplant when that addict gets infected from using dirty needles.

Yes. But many can't seem to comprehend this. Because this guy is religious, likely conservative, they'll defend him regardless. They argue about their tax payer money being used, meanwhile, you get rid of programmes like this, and the medical system will be filled up by people like this, costing the tax payer money in the end regardless.

But logic out the door, you're attacking conservatives so you must be wrong.

a reply to: Tempter

You're not making much sense here. I thought your OOBE got you out of using Heroin. I'm not suggesting it's a good experience, but like you said, the experience you were in of being an addict wasn't good either. That the OOBE was so powerful it made you stop. Am I right so far?? That's what I thought you said.

Now you're saying you were better off dead. Well which is it, should you be a dead junky or a living recovering addict???

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Tempter

You're not making much sense here. I thought your OOBE got you out of using Heroin. I'm not suggesting it's a good experience, but like you said, the experience you were in of being an addict wasn't good either. That the OOBE was so powerful it made you stop. Am I right so far?? That's what I thought you said.

Now you're saying you were better off dead. Well which is it, should you be a dead junky or a living recovering addict???

I'm thankful to be alive.

I'm stuck with a demon I can't lose.

And I fear it will bring me down in the end.

Just the fact that a portion of the heroin problem we have is directly linked to pain management treatment from the medical industry should mean that we have a responsibility to provide care for people who are addicted.

I mean we have an industry which prescribes this medication to people knowing that the side effect is an addiction to that mediation. Then the cut off that medication and provide zero help in what to do with that addiction problem.

That's just insane. We don't prescribe alcohol and yet provide all kinds of access to it and even systems to provide partaking in it's usage and even programs for when people get addicted to it.

But here's something actually pushed on people legally and no care for them when they're addicted later on even though we know that might happen as a result.

a reply to: Tempter

Sure, but you're better now than you were then. That's what the OOBE you had helped you realize. That's good news. If you still need help, which is totally understandable, you should get it too. You have at least made that first hard step though which is a good thing.

As for this topic, all we're saying is that for those who haven't even gotten to where you're at and are still stuck in an even worse situation, the least we can do as a society is not make it any worse by allowing them to use dirty needles which may get them sick or someone else sick. It's better that way for everyone.

Even better would be to have some real systems in place that would help them get clean and back to living life normally. But until then we should at a minimum help them and other stay safe and free from disease as much as possible. It's a win win with clean needles.

originally posted by: mOjOm
Just the fact that a portion of the heroin problem we have is directly linked to pain management treatment from the medical industry should mean that we have a responsibility to provide care for people who are addicted.

I mean we have an industry which prescribes this medication to people knowing that the side effect is an addiction to that mediation. Then the cut off that medication and provide zero help in what to do with that addiction problem.

That's just insane. We don't prescribe alcohol and yet provide all kinds of access to it and even systems to provide partaking in it's usage and even programs for when people get addicted to it.

But here's something actually pushed on people legally and no care for them when they're addicted later on even though we know that might happen as a result.

I can agree with this.

*Because you catch them at the early stages of addiction.

I have thought a little more about this. The people that oppose needle exchange have this propaganda visual about junkies. I have lost 3 very dear and intelligent pals in my life to narcs/opioids.

They were tremendously socially functional right up to the very end. Very few people knew of their struggles. Because it was embarrassing. And the killer to it was regardless of what most people think, you actually can do a very productive 8 hours of work and NO ONE will notice. And you can do so for years and years.

Its similar to alcoholism, but easier, because no one can smell your breath and even more convincing, if anything you become a more pleasant and pliable employee. Now of course not everyone can fake it to the end, where you start nodding off all over the place, but there are many that can. I'd even guess to say that maybe 5 % of people around you at work are in some stage of opioid addiction. You may not believe that, but no big deal. Jesus will save them in jail right?

Anyway, its such a common issue that punitive assessments are not reasonable.

using religion to stop a program aimed at helping individuals

That's the entire premise of the Republican party. Anyone who ever votes for a Republican is voting for screwing over people.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

My guess is that intravenous drug users are probably exposing themselves to all the same diseases in other ways regardless of whether they're using clean needles.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

More specifically, these programs significantly cut down on the spread of disease, which in turn leads to reduced health care costs across the board as people are on average healthier.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
I get it. You have your pet projects. It makes your feel better providing these people the means to partake in their vice in a safe manner. On the other hand you don't approve of my vice and you don't want to enable it. At least be honest about it.

I mean, we could always get serious about combating drunk driving and force all cars in the US to have those blower things to start the car. Why only force installation of them after someone has been found guilty multiple times? People would probably consider that a personal invasion of privacy though.

A needle exchange program is much less intrusive, and has been shown to pay for itself by reducing other costs to society.

There's literally no reason not to do it. It creates jobs, it reduces expenses, it increases the general quality of life and health, and it keeps cities cleaner.

originally posted by: Pyle
Damn it, this is one of the reasons we had an HIV outbreak because Pence wouldnt sign off on a state program. Now this county is stopping because the bible says so?!

In Georgia the other day a lawmaker said that HIV happens because people aren't devout enough to God, and that they could get well by praying enough. They also said we need to round up all HIV+ people and quarantine them... that lawmaker, the wife of Tom Price, the head of HHS (until recently).