Indiana commissioner cites Bible verse while voting to end lifesaving needle exchange program

a reply to: seasonal

It's a book of ideas and stories to think about and try and relate to how we live our lives. It's not a instruction manual that you find a breakdown like step one, step two....

They're stories that you can think about and gain insight from but within context or that event and your own life.

It was also written a long time ago and things change. Some things don't and those are the timeless and classic stories we've always told every generation. Some lessons always will apply.

But a lot of what's in that book is nothing more than the ruling men of the day saying stuff to suit them or the times. That can still be learned from too, as something not to do if nothing else. But the whole Religious Rule book thing is abused way too much now.

It's done by those who are trying to force something that doesn't and shouldn't be happening and they do it while using that book as both a sword and shield in the process. Which often includes the weight of the church and institutions of Religion along with it to make that push. Which is a large weight and power behind it.

a reply to: mOjOm

Agreed.

If someone is condemning another for their "sins" using odd and complicated verses, that usually means hot air is being blowed. I usually laugh and move on.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Tempter

And to a point I agree.

This is a purely a financial decision that I agree with because as a society we have agreed to patch these sick souls up after they get all sorts of illnesses from dirty needles. Clean needles save money.

Are you for not treating sick people that are drug addicts? If so that would be an even better financial savings, but the social costs could be more than we are willing to pay.

Frankly, I don't think it's worth it. There are two kinds of addicts: current and recovering. Those who have the will or power to see what they are doing to their family and friends and stop deserve treatment.

Those who see and do not care, can die.

I know both sides because Bobby is the later and I'm the former.

The ladder out of hell can only be ascended alone. I don't care what you tell me contrary unless you've done it.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: DanDanDat

You can call a service for that. You can have just about anything delivered to your house now.

And I guess that means these people can get their own clean needles?

a reply to: Tempter

Well then we disagree, and that is OK.

a reply to: neo96

It doesn't enable drug use, it enables safer drug use. Clean needles help prevent the spread of many infectious diseases. These diseases will often spread from drug users to non-users. For example, look at the explosion of Hep C infections. Those who use will use regardless of the availability of needles. If you're truly concerned about the amount of addiction please look to blame the CIA for importing all the heroin and to big pharma for pushing unnecessary amounts of pain meds on people. It's very easy to blame the victims of corrupt policies instead of blaming the ones that create the policies.

a reply to: DanDanDat

If they're available then yes they can.

But if they aren't available for them then they can't and there is the problem.

It's in everyone's best interest in this situation for those needles to be easily available to them versus the alternative which is the point.

The ideal situation would be that they wouldn't need them at all. Just like the ideal situation would be for you to be sober instead. But neither of those is possible at the moment.

However, safe places for you to get drunk and have access to what you need has been provided as well as other areas and services which make that behavior safer for everyone else too. The same would apply here.

You seem to not want to provide for others what you're already taken for granted yourself because you think only your situation matters and theirs doesn't. You also leave out those who don't participate at all but still must exist along side you.

The commissioner is an idiot no matter how you try to look at it.

I'd rather pay for clean needles out of my taxes for an addict than paying for a lifetime of treatment for Hep C or HIV, or a liver transplant when that addict gets infected from using dirty needles.

That dude sounds like of those that spout nonsense about how such things are a plague from god to get rid of the sinners and unbelievers.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Tempter

Well then we disagree, and that is OK.

It is okay we disagree. I'm just saying that when you think they need help and enough people do you come for my money via taxes and I think it's a waste.

It's throwing perfectly good money at perfectly crappy people.

Excuse my frankness, but I have learned to hate the person I was. It's the only way I can be sure he never returns.

a reply to: Tempter

I agree that they are not doing good and healthy things.

The only thing I am pointing out is that it is cheaper to give clean needles than cure horrendously expensive illnesses from dirty needles.
In other words let's get these addicts to death or rehab the cheapest possible way, and I believe avoiding dirty needle diseases is one way to save huge tax $$.

So do not take my pro needle give away as a tip of my cap to drug usage.

a reply to: Tempter

The problem is that you're only able to see it from your own perspective. Like DanDanDat you're not viewing this objectively from outside your own position. Which is even more strange for you being that you said "you don't like the person you were". So I'm assuming you had a heroin habit yourself at one time. Is that correct??

But like DanDanDat and his alcohol, the same goes for Heroin. Those two specifically because they are so similar in their addictions actually. But DanDanDat only sees his own perspective. He thinks Heroin addicts deserve nothing. No help in any way. Yet with his own addiction to alcohol and all the assistance he's already getting even would like more.

Neither alcohol or heroin needs to be had by anyone. But with alcohol we've made allowances for the overall good of everyone involved, even those who don't drink it. It's legally available with limitations. There are easy ways to obtain it and safe areas to enjoy it. It's regulated for safety, quality and even comes in a variety of sizes and flavors. You can get a keg or a bottle or a can even. Not with Heroin though.

So we've made on situation easy and safe for those who want to partake and it's for the good of everyone that way, even those who don't drink. We've compromised for everyone's benefit. We should do the same for Heroin as well. Do what is needed for everyone's best interest. Best for the addict as well as those who don't use. Limited availability, but safe and regulated quality and safety in where and how it's used for everyone's benefit.

But you can't limit your thinking to just yourself ya selfish bastards!! The world and society isn't just about you.

BTW, that last part is meant to be humorous. Don't take it personal anyone. Not exactly anyway.

originally posted by: neo96
Someone explain to me how enabling drug use is 'life saving'.

Please by all means.

GDI - it HALTS the spread of disease.

keep religion out of politics.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Tempter

The problem is that you're only able to see it from your own perspective. Like DanDanDat you're not viewing this objectively from outside your own position. Which is even more strange for you being that you said "you don't like the person you were". So I'm assuming you had a heroin habit yourself at one time. Is that correct??

But like DanDanDat and his alcohol, the same goes for Heroin. Those two specifically because they are so similar in their addictions actually. But DanDanDat only sees his own perspective. He thinks Heroin addicts deserve nothing. No help in any way. Yet with his own addiction to alcohol and all the assistance he's already getting even would like more.

Neither alcohol or heroin needs to be had by anyone. But with alcohol we've made allowances for the overall good of everyone involved, even those who don't drink it. It's legally available with limitations. There are easy ways to obtain it and safe areas to enjoy it. It's regulated for safety, quality and even comes in a variety of sizes and flavors. You can get a keg or a bottle or a can even. Not with Heroin though.

So we've made on situation easy and safe for those who want to partake and it's for the good of everyone that way, even those who don't drink. We've compromised for everyone's benefit. We should do the same for Heroin as well. Do what is needed for everyone's best interest. Best for the addict as well as those who don't use. Limited availability, but safe and regulated quality and safety in where and how it's used for everyone's benefit.

But you can't limit your thinking to just yourself ya selfish bastards!! The world and society isn't just about you.

I know how to step outside myself. It's a superpower of mine. Without it I wouldnt be alive today. I can do it at will with enough reason.

And I'm not talking disassociation. I'm talking full Astral projection. There are few people who can literally know what a 3rd perspective is to a personal issue more than me.

Expanding on that, my first reasoned OOB experience had to do with this very topic, in the act of consumption. As a 3rd entity, literally from my point of view, is how I gained control to turn my life around. And it happened because of this 3rd perspective. I hated what I saw. From my "spirit" or consciousness, floating above my body below, I saw what a disgusting thing this lifeless body was doing. I loathed returning to it.

Many people, as I've read extensively on the topic as I've practiced it, seem to have a very positive reaction to an OOB experience. Mine was revolting. I threw up, no doubt from the combination of drugs as well, for hours afterwards. It was the most uncomfortable, sickening and downright evil feeling I've ever had. Believe me when I tell you I was consumed by pestilence manifest. It was a demon. It was a lifeless demon body which I owned.

I'm thankful most will never know how bad it is to become a junkie. And I'm monumentally grateful you will never know what it feels like to see it truly. My experience, contrary to your perception, is beyond any understanding you could have on the topic. I'm a master junkie, in recovery. And I've seen the Devils soul.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: neo96
Someone explain to me how enabling drug use is 'life saving'.

Please by all means.

GDI - it HALTS the spread of disease.

But he doesn't think that involves him at all. He thinks those that are effected are only the addicts themselves. He also doesn't consider the costs of it later on, or simply believes we shouldn't help them then either. Basically that none of them deserve any kind of help at all most likely and that we should just let them rot and die.

Because if you're able to convince yourself that they deserve nothing at all, not even sympathy, then you can dismiss the other issues as well like the cost to society. Then ignoring the possibility that their disease might effect you is that much easier too.

originally posted by: neo96
Someone explain to me how enabling drug use is 'life saving'.

Please by all means.

Don't do that. It's OLD and weak.

You're better than this.

a reply to: Tempter

Ok fine. I'm glad that you found a powerful enough experience to push you away from that lifestyle too. Not everyone is so lucky to have such a thing happen to them however. Maybe you should start a program to teach addicts how to do it too. Might help them as well.

But the point here is that from an outside perspective of what is good for society. Clean needles is a better option over all. Even for you, before you had your OOBE and were using, it's better off for everyone if you at least did so with a clean needle. Ideally the best option is for you to not use at all, but until you can get there to at least use in a safe and clean way. Better for everyone that way. Better for you, me and society at large.

originally posted by: lordcomac
we have one of those programs in Portland Maine.

they steal my hard earned money via tax, then pay college kids to go around town handing out free needles and other drug paraphernalia, collecting the old tainted equipment to expensively dispose of it.

nice that they pick up the dirty needles, less nice that they steal my Monday to provide those needles, saving the druggies money so they can afford more drugs.

from what I've heard, half the kids being paid to distribute equipment are also selling the drugs. everyone could use a spare buck- but stop taking it out of my pocket.

I'm not a bible thumper- but you don't need to be one to see the stupidity of these programs.

Lies. You just feel better living in your utopia, away from the problems of the world. Admit it. You don't give a flying rats ass about people.

"DEY TERK MY HARD EARNED TARXES!!!"

You want safe roads? they steal your taxes. You want hospitals? they steal your taxes. People don't go out and get addicted on purpose, no one says "Gee, I feel like being addicted to a life debilitating drug, where I have to share needles, and my life will be cut short."

Oh you have no problem with people drinking 2 liters of whiskey, because they TAX that, right? maybe if people were able to buy legal vices, and be taxed in accord, you'd be OK with people having a safe route of administration. Nah, let the junkies get sick.

Dont beg for help when society crumbles around the likes of folk who consider money more important than lives.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: neo96
Someone explain to me how enabling drug use is 'life saving'.

Please by all means.

F--- drug use. If you want to use drugs, by all means use them, make your self happy. Why should the rest of society help you partake in your vice?

Im all out of wine at the moment, I'll be happy if you come give me some for free. It'll stop me from going out driving to the liquer store where I might crash my car in my current state. Win win for me and society.

Dumb comment and obviously ignorant poster of the year award goes to you.

Who is giving you free wine? Here, have a clean cup so when you get your dirty # street wine, you don't contract hep.

Dimwitted logic. But you don't even care.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: DanDanDat

The reason to give clean needles out is so the $10,000's of thousands of dollars the tax payers pay to medical interventions because of dirty needles can be avoided.

So either we pay a couple of bucks for clean needles or untold dollars for FREE treatment from dirty needles for drug addicts.

What one sounds better, and no there is not another choice.

Yup what's the social cost of drunk drivers... come being me wine.

Edited ... free wine

Thinks clean needles is being given free heroin.

Logic... you don't have any.