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Indiana commissioner cites Bible verse while voting to end lifesaving needle exchange program

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posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 11:15 AM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Southern Guardian

My guess is that intravenous drug users are probably exposing themselves to all the same diseases in other ways regardless of whether they're using clean needles.


Your guess would be wrong.




posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Sure, because we all know that people desperate enough to resort to intravenous drug use are capable of making intelligent and rational decisions! Ha!



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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According to California HIV isn't the death sentence it once was.

Know ingly exposing others to HIV will no longer be a felony in California

Modern medicine allows those with HIV to live longer lives and nearly eliminates the possibility of transmission, according to state Sen. Scott Wiener (D-San Francisco) and Assemblyman Todd Gloria (D-San Diego), authors of the bill.
The measure also applies to those who give blood without telling the blood bank that they are HIV-positive.

Personally I thought knowingly infecting someone with HIV should be a crime/valid public health concern but posters on a thread about the subject here at ATS felt otherwise. In that thread HIV was compared to syphilis, claims were made that lots of people infected with HIV never develop AIDS. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Charging those who knowingly spread HIV with a felony is considered antiquated/over the top and possibly a form of gay bashing. In California HIV isn't a felony level threat to life. So which is it, are needle exchanges really "lifesaving" or are they just feel good campaigns? If HIV is no longer a serious threat to life maybe needle exchanges are antiquated/over the top too. Seems a bit confusing depending on the agenda being pushed. Maybe private charities should fund the exchanges instead of taxpayers?

I knew a few junkies growing up in Gary, IN. No needle exchanges back then, getting a rig was hard so people reused/shared. Imo needle exchanges put too many needles out in circulation. If they were harder to come by, maybe needles wouldn't get thrown away willy-nilly.

Junkies can't be trusted to do the right thing ever. The only thing consistent about their behavior is it's consistently bad. Giving junkies bleach would work just as well, if they'd bother using it. When desperate they'll do anything, they'll share needles in a heartbeat then lie about it later or won't remember.

Junkies live extremely risky lifestyles if dirty needles doesn't infect them with god knows what, filthy living conditions/unsafe stoned sex/rape will. I wonder if there's an exchange that'll save them from lead poisoning when drug deals go bad? This thread reminds me how much I don't miss Gary.

edit on 10-21-2017 by Morningglory because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: Morningglory

For starters, that California bill is ridiculous. Maliciously infecting someone with any disease should be a felony.

That said, HIV treatment has come a long way, and you can live with it these days for 30+ years, you can even never develop AIDS if you catch it early and are dilligent in treatment. That doesn't tell the whole story though. Needles cost a penny each. 3 free needles a day for 50 years is $55. Treating HIV for even 1 year is $50,000 of which the government is picking up more than half the tab on average due to people being uninsured.

It's several orders of magnitude difference, and that savings goes directly to the tax payers.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
Someone explain to me how enabling drug use is 'life saving'.

Please by all means.



You are using an outdated "sin" model of judging this, which is traditional moralizing. It turns out that there are a lot of psycho-social elements to addiction. Moreover, when you are a policy maker the goal is not to moralize about everything but instead utilize evidence-based decisions that if not eliminating an issue moderate the risk to individuals and themselves. Further, the evidence shows that for many real addicts, it's not "willpower." This is why most courts and systems address it as a disease now not a moral issue. Do you want to actually reduce hard drug use or not? Because just saying "it's bad don't do it" is about as naive as it gets.

In this case, the evidence demonstrates that needle exchange programs reduce the spread of a number of infectious diseases such as HIV and Hepatitis C.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Southern Guardian

My guess is that intravenous drug users are probably exposing themselves to all the same diseases in other ways regardless of whether they're using clean needles.


Well we can all guess all kinds of things because it's really easy to just sit back and make assumptions about people and their situation rather than actually learn about what's going on. However those guesses are never correct so rather than just think whatever you want about people because it's easy, you should take the time to learn the truth of what's happening or not say anything at all.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

As Southern Guardian wrote,

I can't believe i agree with you.

Clean needles are not enabling anything. They are saving lives and future medical costs.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Aazadan

Sure, because we all know that people desperate enough to resort to intravenous drug use are capable of making intelligent and rational decisions! Ha!


You sure seem to want to act like you know a lot about this lives of Heroin users and their situation. But my guess is you don't know anything at all about them, the range of different people that might be an opiate addict, the kinds of lives they lead or anything else about them.



posted on Oct, 21 2017 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: neo96

It's this same line of thinking that leads people to believe that giving out free condoms increases the abortion rate.



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 03:18 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

What is so great about drug users? the needle exchange only promotes more drug use,this is getting rediculous,taxpayers on hook for an idiot that can't control himself,how about drug diversion



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 03:28 AM
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a reply to: Oldtimer2

You know it's almost as if you didn't bother reading anything posted in this thread at all.

But decided to post not only out of ignorance for what's been said here, but also the most simply and unimaginative comment possible that's been addressed over and over already.



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: neo96
Someone explain to me how enabling drug use is 'life saving'.

Please by all means.



GDI - it HALTS the spread of disease.


Anyone who goes to the areas..the needle exchanges..the drug areas...KNOWS that disease is running rampant and has had no noticeable change.

In fact people are dying FASTER.

It is nice to believe things are better with clean needles services but it really is not.

Meanwhile you are not allowed to give free marijuana in those same areas..only free crack meth and heroin.

These programs are provably a failure, go ask the people on the streets...nobody is doing better they just have access to more drugs.



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: DanDanDat

The reason to give clean needles out is so the $10,000's of thousands of dollars the tax payers pay to medical interventions because of dirty needles can be avoided.

So either we pay a couple of bucks for clean needles or untold dollars for FREE treatment from dirty needles for drug addicts.

What one sounds better, and no there is not another choice.



Yup what's the social cost of drunk drivers... come being me wine.

Edited ... free wine


Thinks clean needles is being given free heroin.

Logic... you don't have any.


In my area it is free heroin along with the needles.

And most of the others too.

Facts... you don't have any.



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: NthOther


You hate God


This commissioner from Indiana uses the Bible, a 2000 year old document, set back in ancient times, a religious document he worships upon, to make a legislative, government, decision over his residents. Many of whom are not necessarily christian or religious.

This doesn't disturb you, and anybody who disagrees hates God.


Why not get outraged at the bazillion other stupid things in the world like POLITICS.

Politics is worse than religion.

Keep politics out of our lives.



posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: Fools
well i don't think bible verse is appropriate here i too do not understand the neddle program. what we need to do is stop importation of ilegal opiates from asia and india. we had little trouble with them till we started war in afganistan opening up the trade routes to the poppy producers. if drug users can't get fix then no need for needles instead offer free rehab




posted on Oct, 22 2017 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: proteus33

You're looking at the situation from a totally different angle. You're looking to stop heroin use or the use of opiates in general which is what leads to heroin. That's a different goal all together from what clean needles are about, although they do go together to some degree.

Stopping heroin use is worth it's own discussion. For this discussion though one thing that needs to be clear is that ending it's use isn't even a realistic option to have. This is hardly just an issue of black market street heroin use anymore. We literally have a medical industry which prescribes opiates as part of it's practices. Which also btw is being pushed beyond all reasonable and ethical amounts making it even worse. But even if it was being done at reasonable levels the problem would still exist. So when you have a legit usage of it coming from something like the medical field, the idea that you can just end it is unrealistic. You have to come up with a better solution.

What clean needles is addressing isn't the Heroin problem but minimizing the negative effects to people as a result. It looks at the situation in an unbiased way with the intention of decreasing the problems, health and otherwise, to those who use and everyone else as well.

Dirty needles transmit disease to the users and people around them. Clean needles greatly minimize both getting a disease or propagating it to others. Nobody argues that using heroin is dangerous and ideally should stop. But until that is possible the idea is to not make matters worse by allowing dirty needles. The idea is to at least, at a minimum, not make matters worse from an already bad situation. Clean needles keep the user from making their situation worse, spreading anything to others who aren't using and reduce the medical expenses to everyone for treating them for those diseases should they happen.

That is what it's about. Helping people who might somehow be affected by this problem directly and indirectly, both physically and financially overall.

Does that make sense???



posted on Oct, 23 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

If these people can dig up enough money to spend an average of $150/day on their habit, why can't they afford to buy their own needles? Maybe people would feel better about it if the cost of distributing these needles wasn't passed on to the rest of us.



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