Harvey Weinstein Has Me Thinking

originally posted by: VegHead
Excellent post, OP...

I think for so many of us, unwanted advances, harassment, and worse are such a common life experience that it is like white noise. You barely notice it except for when it reaches the most invasive or threatening level.

This is part of why some women might not come forward right away. It isn't until looking back, from a safe distance and maturity that comes with time, that you realize how wrongly you were treated. In the moment, it is just "life" ... just another guy aggressively trying to get into your pants.

Thanks for your post - this is probably the best internet discussion I've read on this subject.

Excellent response from you.

Perfectly put: it's like white noise! It truly is! It never felt all that unusual. That is the sad thing.

a reply to: MRuss

It sounds like a problem indeed, I too have been sexually harassed in my time but thankfully never sexually abused.
I've also been harassed and bullied in non sexual ways, could it be the case that some people a just nasty pieces of scum? From my experience the predators go after who they perceive to be the most vulnerable, the ones least likely to be able to be able to stick up for themselves. Such is the cowardly nature of predators and bullies.

Though I have read lots of "something needs to be done about this" but so far I haven't seen what exactly? Have I missed any solutions? Does anyone have any?

Is it an issue with society? Is it a genetic thing with some men? Or do the hardcore Muslims have it right and should women go around in full Burkas?

a reply to: angeldoll

I agree. But I've been watching some videos by Corey Feldman today. I mean, people in power will screw you when you don't do what they want.

Weinstein would call in his favors, his assistants, his cronies and ruin a person when he didn't get his own way.

originally posted by: MRuss
a reply to: kaylaluv


I'm wondering how you internalized all this beyond not trusting men. For me, I think, it's a self-esteem issue. I always had to prove myself to show there was more to me than being blonde.

Absolutely, the need to prove I was more than my looks was strong for me as well. I was always afraid of being some brainless twit whose main purpose was being a plaything for a male authority figure.

But at least you and I fought that "nothing but a sex object" mentality. Unfortunately, some women start out with low self esteem and fall prey to that mindset too easily. They give up on trying to prove themselves. And that's very sad. When your whole self-worth is based on the physical, and that part of you starts to fade with age (as it inevitably will), then what do you have left?

a reply to: kaylaluv


there's nothing sadder than a pretty girl who thinks her whole self-worth is tied up in her looks. even worse - parents who push it.

Every 98 seconds an American is sexually assaulted.
My job is part of our States victims services division, so I am involved on an up close and personal level. The only thing that keeps me going, is seeing the transformation of the victims from broken and hopeless, to hopeful and healing.

For those that like numbers, pics and links. The Rape Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN) website has some interest data. www.rainn.org...

Sexual Abuse Is a Widespread Problem
One in 9 girls and 1 in 53 boys under the age of 18 experience sexual abuse or assault at the hands of an adult.
www.rainn.org...

On average, there are 321,500 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the United States.

Native Americans Are at the Greatest Risk of Sexual Violence
On average, American Indians ages 12 and older experience 5,900 sexual assaults per year.
American Indians are twice as likely to experience a rape/sexual assault compared to all races.
41% of sexual assaults against American Indians are committed by a stranger; 34% by an acquaintance; and 25% by an intimate or family member.

www.rainn.org...

Another area were sexual abuse is expected and accepted.

Sexual Violence Affects Thousands of Prisoners Across the Country
An estimated 80,600 inmates each year experience sexual violence while in prison or jail.
60% of all sexual violence against inmates is perpetrated by jail or prison staff.
More than 50% of the sexual contact between inmate and staff member—all of which is illegal—is nonconsensual.

Sexual Violence in the Military Often Goes Unreported
18,900 military members experienced unwanted sexual contact in the fiscal year ending September, 2014.
4.3% of active duty women and 0.9% of active duty men experienced unwanted sexual contact in FY14.
Of the 18,900 survivors, 43% of females and 10% of males reported.

www.rainn.org...

a reply to: MRuss

I believe most every woman has gone through similiar events but really good looking women have some of the worst stories in terms of lifetime harassment.

Not necessarily. That is just another myth that they will try to sell you.

I have found in reality that women that are less attractive, obese, or with disabilities are more prone to sexual abuse then beautiful women. They are to consider themselves lucky that any man would have anything to do with them, and that no one will believe them, because they are so ugly or deformed that no man would want to have sex with them.

Statistics for sexual abuse against children with disabilities and adults with disabilities are very limited, because so many of them can't report or understand what is happening to them.

Being unattractive by society's standards makes most people a sitting duck.
www.child-abuse-effects.com...
www.rainn.org...

a reply to: surfer_soul

It seems like there's a lot of unawareness about the prevalence of sexual assaults, so right here is a good place to start!

I'll reaffirm what's being said over and again in this thread, which is this happens all the time. I'm neither young (well I'm 38 and a mom of two) nor blond, and have encountered plenty of Weinsteins in my lifetime as well, even as currently as 3 weeks ago where I was grabbed (sexually assaulted) at a concert (that--specifically at a concert-- has happened 3 times in my life). Doctors, bosses, strangers, students... the list goes on. I was initiated to the ways of entitled, sleezy men at 15-- I got my first job at a retirement home, and one of the residents groped me as I walked by.

I once clocked (punched in jaw) a creep who grabbed me, and have angrily and disgustedly confronted the others, but honestly when it happens it is quite shocking and it's hard to say how one will react.

My reaction to such assaults has varied greatly over the years, and has changed as I developed a better understanding of self and boundaries. I have closed off as well-- I no longer flash the beaming smile to men (even though I enjoy people and want to engage and be friendly), they get a tight-lipped smile and a nod but honestly it's not worth being sunny if more often than not men thinking I want to date them or more after a smile and a "hi."

One of my friends has been raped twice by strangers, the second time so severely that her child came as a miracle- docs told her she would be unable to bear kids.

Many many other friends and women I know have told me similar tales.

More have than have not been assaulted in some way. This is the world.

To men who really don't know what is appropriate and what is not, I would only say that if a woman is willing to spend a lot of time with you, that's a good sign, and that moving slowly is never a bad way to go.

To parents out there-- BE CAREFUL! Teach your kids how to protect themselves and dont' give them too much leeway either would be my best advice.

AboveBoard has a great point in saying that it seems to start very young, before a person could possibly understand what they are up against (a predator).

originally posted by: MRuss


But I basically lived a good part of my life dealing with unwanted attention or bad behavior from men.

Sorry you had to endure that. "Unwanted" is the operative word. When someone treats you like an object regardless of what you "want" or don't "want" that person is an emotional or often physical threat to your well being.

He has me thinking that those experiences weren't right and that perhaps in some way they've damaged some part of me that I haven't really ever come to terms with.

"Damaged" is not the right word.

I realize it has probably influenced my life in ways I'm not even aware of.

I think that is a better way to put it.

Here is the thing to ponder and remember. Few girls and women have the wits or strength you are blessed with, both then and now.

That means for every scenario where you avoided the worse case, many others your age with your appearance did not.

Strength can come from numbers. That means every time a girl or woman works up the courage to share their very uncomfortable or sometimes very tragic story, some girl or woman reads it and finds a little strength themselves or thinks to speak to their own daughter about what to do and the realities of the world.

Diagnostically 5% of the population is Sociopathic. Everyone is objects to them.
Those people are terrifyingly dangerous under the wrong conditions.

But more broadly we have a culture that..yes, it's cliché..that "Objectifies Women".
Mix that with some hormones and less than moral men and the world gets unpleasant or dangerous for girls and women.

For Harvey Weinstein, Women were objects, images, puppets for his plays that people paid him for.
And yes, Hollywood can be ground zero for that thinking. It sells.

a reply to: MRuss

I think this also common in the Science fields. I had a conversation one time to a professor about how many women were sexually harassed and some were actually forced to do sex acts just to advance their career.

I believe this one of the reasons why not many women choose Science as a career. The few women who did stayed did so because they won't take no crap from anyone.

Btw, sorry for the ordeal you went through.

a reply to: zosimov

Zos, I want to say I admire that you spoke up. I feel like more women should speak up because I noticed that many women were forced to keep quiet for fear of being shunned. This happened throughout history and even today.

And sorry for the horrible treatment you received by men.

I think alot of this types of actions only occur due to lack of proper influence from each opposing gender. Why are girls without a proper male role model, o so flirtatious, while the lack of female( sister or father) can lead to a much chauvinistic perception towards women?

I agree completely, woman, or people in general shouldn't have to put up with this. However, it get to certain point, an a problem I usually have with woman. Woman are reckless...period.

Sure, you may have the right to show some cleavage, but dont complain when SOMEONE stares. Sure, it right to walk down that dark street all by yourself, but expect the...expected.

The amount of stories I hear from my gf mouth, an how it could of been avoided, it gets to pitiful. Some of the stories have their happy endings tho, a bigger brother or father, finds out an well, it kind of explains the rest there.

I literally wouldn't feel guilty using a sledgehammer for solving some problems, so I can sleep better...an pay less taxes.


Family matters like what some say, that I'll never understand.

There are nice guys that give pretty women nice compliments left in the world for the right reasons and flirting is ok as long as it does not go to far.

The Weinstein thing is unacceptable in any situation. But in real life its not always like it is in Hollywood.

This is always a tough topic. From the guys perspective, its just some harmless flirting and a proposition or two. No big deal. You don't get anywhere if you don't ask. At work this may not be advisable. I guess that depends on the people involved. I had a very bad experience with that. I asked our young receptionist if she wanted to play powerball. The lottery was up to 300 million or so and we were collecting tickets around the office. Next thing I knew I was in the VP of Nuclear Engineering' office explaining why I was harassing the receptionist. It wasn't long after that she was in the shop foreman's office watching the Tanya Harding porno tape an cracking jokes about it. No complaint was filed about that incident. ???

I learned that work is not the place to meet girls. Although I was usually the one being chased but that is a different story.

To a guy, its a few minutes and some harmless flirting. We don't consider the fact that its a few minutes, right after the last few minutes, and the few before that. To US its a few minutes. To the woman being hit on its pretty much her whole day.

I experienced this from a unique perspective once. I was dating a woman who was by any measure one of the most beautiful women God ever put on this Earth. We never had a moments peace. I would be sitting at the bar in a club with my arm around her and a guy would try to force his way in between us to ask her to dance or something. I made sure my sidearm "accidentally" dug in to his ribs to get his attention. Heaven forbid she had to use the ladies room because it was like a conga line behind her. I still get ticked off thinking about it.

If I am going to approach a woman now (but I don't because I am happily married - hi honey), I start off by asking if she can take a compliment without being offended by the attention. Its her choice then. I find that works quite well.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Thanks my friend, and also thankfully there are true gentlemen (like you) in the world!

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: kaylaluv
there's nothing sadder than a pretty girl who thinks her whole self-worth is tied up in her looks. even worse - parents who push it.

I hear you, but I have to ask myself,

How about the girl that has been told her entire life that she is ugly and worthless? How about an ugly girl that is repeatedly raped and abused her whole life?

How about an ugly girl with nowhere to turn because no one will believe her, and her family tells her she is lucky that any man would even want to touch her.

How about an ugly girl that no one believed that gets pregnant, is kicked out of school, shunned by her community, and left homeless in the street?

I agree that it is awful that anyone would have their whole self-worth is tied up in how they look. And it is worse when parents exacerbate the problem. It is just that the beautiful ones are not the only ones that become victims.

That myth comes from the belief that sexual assault comes from a place of love and desire. Men that are sexual abusers are all about power and control. There is no beauty or humanity in sexual abuse. Maybe we should just take the sex part out of it. It is assault. Assault of the vilest nature.

a reply to: MRuss

Thanks for sharing.

Put the past behind you. And, in your mind, you already knew those experiences weren't right. You didn't need Weinstein to bring it to light.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Well said. It is a much misunderstood thing. Rape is not a sex act. it is an act of violence. Violence of a most vile nature.

Unsurprising, and being male but having close female friends all my life and an aware mom who grew up in the early 20th century, and being mildly observant with a smidgen of empathy, the behavior and culture of the "average" American guy repulses me... and the extent of female acquaintances who were molested and raped, even by close family, still breaks me ... and made me very hesitant to instigate anything remotely sexual, likely to a fault. Trauma does spread.

So, I cannot imagine the constant paranoia and pressure a "cute" (or totally normal, for that matter) woman experiences on a daily basis and can only despair about women in less "enlightened" societies.

It certainly is getting better ... at least it's getting talked about, anyway, but ...there's a looooooooooooong way to go.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
There are nice guys that give pretty women nice compliments left in the world for the right reasons and flirting is ok as long as it does not go to far.

Yea but, in this egotistical an superficial world where the dominant species came from monkeys who think they are aliens, nice guys finish last.