Harvey Weinstein Has Me Thinking

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
I used to be a psychological counsellor... the percentage of the population that has been abused/harrassed is staggering. I would estimate 70-80% of all people.

In Scandinavia people are more likely to report violations so the disparity between men and women is much smaller. In North America there is a myth that men are not molested/abused often, but that is untrue.

A big problem is the ego which protects the psyche at all costs... I see it endlessly in online dating. A man messages and gets no response; ego tells him that she must have missed it, rather than not being interested. No way she's not interested in me! And of course then comes the inability to handle rejection in the form of insults or threats. Society is so damaged... and to ATS this up a little, you'll notice all those cartoons with subliminal sexual programming also like their eye-in-the-pyramid crap





a reply to: kngfc
In my opinion the Hollywood industry is basically like a gigantic front company for a prostitution service. Wealthy old people need a way to control power over young attractive people... and so we have a system that prioritises them. Won't bend over for a film? We'll find someone who will.

Thanks for sharing g that.
I've had much of it myself.
Much older now, but I was for awhile a petite pretty blonde.

I was harrassed, followed, stalked, preyed upon much of my life.

The Cosby thing stirred up thoughts of a man who I now believe gave me a date rape drug. He was a cop. It was all the same as those women who spoke out, have some wine, relax. Next thing I'm half undressed wondering how I got in his bed. " you fell asleep so I carried you in here". He had insisted I go to his house on the way home from a dinner, insisted I drink the wine. Anyways, long story, but I got very angry and demanded he take me home or I'll call the cops. " I AM A COP". I was stuck in vancouver , two hours away from my town.

After that he kept stalking me, I was scared of him for years. I kept thinking he would track me down

There were other men who did things. Other cops, co-workers etc. A few pervy granddads of my friends.

I'm really not sure what effect it had on me. Must have though. I just end up not really trusting anyone's true motives, I think there's an ulterior motive all the time. I'm even a bit scared of two delivery drivers in town. One is always saying to me " don't take this the wrong way but you look very nice in that dress, you're very attractive". Well what else does it mean?! He's really creepy and not just from his comments.

One time my ex husband had an employee that just knocks on my door one day handing me a gift ... a t shirt with a creepy flirtatious quote on it, he claimed he had made for me, I thought it was weird and inappropriate. I told my husband not to bring him around, I feel like he's about to rape me. " oh don't be stupid, he's not like that" a few weeks later he says I think you were right about him, he just got chsrged with being a peeping tom on his neighbour lady, looking in her window or somethind.

I guess it has always made me think if a guy is being nice to me it's never because he thinks I am a nice person, or interesting person, but it's about my looks. At least now I'm old and not so attractive. As much as I might wish I had my youthful looks back, it was always a curse.
All I ever wanted was to be liked for who I am! Makes you feel unworthy.
This all started when I was about 10 yrs old.

This case caused a bad agument between my husband and I last night.

I ws horrified to hear he'd been listening to jokes and scoffing about it from french people all day.

In his mind (and apparently many here) it was ridiculous for these women to come forward now, when they had to be consenting at the time, perfectly willing to use their body to get fame and fortune earlier.

I grew up in LA, come from a Hollywood family, I've always been aware of the sleeziness that goes on there, and the very confusing and distressing mental conflicts people go though when faced with these situations.

It's part of why I ran away from my mothers attempts to get me in the business. A young woman gets enough sexual harrassment in the USA without even going near that cesspool. I couldn't handle more predators than I already faced daily.

He also did not believe me that it happens a lot to men too - he couldn't understand why, if this is happening against their will, didn't they fight back harder, go to the police immediately .... murder the man!

I ended up being rather disimissive and saying you can't understand if you've always lived in security (as opposed to freedom) and don't know what it is like to worry for your survival.

I think I also suffered some some internal struggles do to the sort of education we were fed back then - the necessity for girls to be "nice", the sexual taboos, the ideas about obeying powerful people (who, in our protestant based values must have gotten there through good ethical behavior and hard work) being role models .....this made it all very confusing.

Also, our argument led down to the confusion men have on reading women and whether or not they want sex. We ended up comparing french and american culture again, why french women are bitches and aggressive, why they don't hesitate to get in the face with hostility to men at even the slightest hint of attention.

They have no value on being nice, they also have no expectations that a man should learn to turn off his sexual drives on his own all the time - it is up to the individual woman to let him know clearly in the moment that they are not receptive (after all, some women do welcome it, so why should he turn it off all the time?)

I don't know, it is more complicated than that, like I said. Especially when it comes to men in position of power.
I knew a university professor that was convicted of sexual harrassment with a student, and yet I knew there WAS a lot of sexual activity going on between students and professors, in which the students seemed to be the initiators.
What everyone seemed to agree on eventually was that even so, it is for the one in power to use better judgement and refuse advances.

I kinda think we all need to also retain some sense of responsibility as well though - completely bowing down to and becoming overly influenced by people in positions of power shouldn't be encouraged.
But then, I embrace conspiracy theorism and hang out with distrustful rebels, so I would feel that.

But that spark of distrust and refusal to bend the knee might be part of what saved my ass through life.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: SprocketUK

Id take jail over not significantly changing the life of someone who hurt my kids like that, but then I am a normal bloke not some idiot.

Be careful with statements like that, and don't ever let your children hear you say that.

There have been many cases were children were being abused and they didn't speak up because they feared the actions of their father or family members. They feared losing their father or family by death or jail, more than they feared the abuse.

When you tell your child you would hurt or kill someone if they hurt them. They usually believe you, and would be every hesitant to tell you if they were being abused.

Oh I agree totally, only one of my kids looks at ATS though and he is 17 and able to understand what I was getting at.
Besides, jail? ha, 3 square meals a day your own telly ad free dental care

originally posted by: InTheLight
Hey women aren't that different from you men, we follow the same path, but with different rules.

True. Men can do science.

Thank you for a very educational read, apparently I am more sheltered than I realized. Although I'm now in my sixties, and married for forty years. I was raised to treat women with respect and to behave as a southern gentleman. I would have no problem stepping up to defend a ladies honor and have done so a few times in my life with out being jailed. Some people have no moral compass. Both men and women are capable of crossing the line. How you deal with it defines who you are.

I am not nave enough to belive women are the weaker sex. I have tried my dead level best to prepare my granddaughters for life. Both are black belts and both can shoot. I respect women and admire strong, decisive, role models.

I find the idea sex by force as well as the Hollywood experience revolting. I now understand a little more, why we are an armed society.

Perhaps my time has pasted.

originally posted by: Nickn3

Perhaps my time has pasted.

Hope not mate. boys need to see proper role models when they are growing up else they only get the bad examples

a reply to: silo13

Horrible stories from most of us and even many times our friends and families just shrugged-you're a girl so just accept it.

If you don't believe it continues to this day you just arn't listening.

The positive take is the small quiet voices are getting louder and with modern stronger more powerful women the voices are being heard.

So, please, to all women, speak out, cry loud, we will hear you.

a reply to: MRuss

All I can say is, Amen Sister. Thank you for sharing this.

It does change you. It made me wary and at times afraid. It messed with my sense of personal boundaries. A lot more than that too, of course, especially because it was always somehow expected that it was just going to be that way. No consequences for the ones who acted so disrespectfully.

Thanks again,
AB

ETA: I'm noticing something that with many here, as with myself, it started very young before we had ANY real ability to cope or understanding of what was happening. It started at 11 with me. This is part of the whole pattern.

Add another "sister" to the list here. I have never been raped or threatened with loss of job, but I have been harassed, groped, and been the child victim of grossly inappropriate behavior.

The first time was with an elderly "grandpa-type" next door neighbor. I was six. It just went on from there. Fifth grade science teacher flirting and telling me how pretty I was. College professor offering me a better grade if I went out with him. Male co-worker who constantly made sexual innuendos towards me no matter how many times I asked him to stop. Senior VP of the ad agency I worked for who was always trying to get me to have a "fling" with him. Too many other stories, unfortunately. Yes, it did have an effect on me. I started to look at men as guilty until proven innocent. Don't blame me for that attitude - blame all the guys who harassed me with uninvited advances.

Having said all that, I just want to make sure to point out that there ARE lots of good guys out there. My father was one. My mom told me the story once that she went with him to a business conference, and one of the women that worked with my dad came up to tell my mom what a great guy he was. She said he was always a gentleman who treated her and the other women in the office with respect and as equals. She said it was a breath of fresh air compared to some of the "sleaze ball" types she'd had to deal with in her career.

I realize we all know this, but I think my point in bringing it up, is that we know it's possible for people - male or female - to evolve past their base urges to be civilized adults who treat people with consideration and respect. There is NO excuse.

Great, great post OP! As a male I have seen it many times by friends, co-workers, etc. It almost like woman are supposed to just accept it. I have never done a cat call to a woman, I truly feel that it is demeaning. But I also feel the way I was raised has a lot to do with it. I grew up with a single mom and my dad was an asshole who had split custody. But I despise my dad to this day for the abuse he did to my mom physically and verbally. Even when she was not there he would verbally tell me how she is this and that. So for me, the respect for my mom and woman in general grew and this is why I feel I have better bonds with woman over men.

I also have been on the side of sexual harassment against myself by another male many years ago. I was just barely over 20 working a new job and an openly gay man would cat call me at every chance he had. I played it off but it was uncomfortable and thankfully I moved on shortly after. But I would never have thought to turn something like that in either.

Thanks for opening up and I hope this open talk helps heal!

i was molested by my parents best friends 14 year old son when i was six.

i had a manager of a restaurant follow me into the girls room all googley eyed when i was 17. scared me to death.. just awful.

i had a very inappropriate college professor. i was super shy and it was all a power trip for him.. disgusting.

being shy, all this made me really dislike attention from men.

a reply to: Ridhya

Wow! Gtreat reply.

I bet your percentages are right. A lot of the abused become abusers.

a reply to: knoxie

Ugh. I'm sorry you've had these kinds of experiences. I think we all just walked away from these things, thinking it was just part of life.

That's why I'm doing a lot of thinking this week---taking it out and looking at it all from a different perspective.

It doesn't make me angry really, not anymore. But it's kind of sad. All of our experiences shape us into the people we are today.

a reply to: HawkeyeNation

It was great to hear that you were raised with a respect for women. I think that's where it starts. At home.

And what's amazing me on this post is how many people have been through situations like this---men and women alike.

a reply to: kaylaluv


Great reply! It sounds like this kind of abuse was a steady part of your life as well.

The professor! Offering you a better grade. There seems to be nowhere that is safe---not college, not church, not work.

I'm wondering how you internalized all this beyond not trusting men. For me, I think, it's a self-esteem issue. I always had to prove myself to show there was more to me than being blonde.

a reply to: Nickn3

It's so refreshing to read your words! Thank you.

Respect for all people begins at home with family. It's what we need to learn as children.

Your granddaughters are lucky to have you in their lives.

I do want to add i'm lucky.. I have a wonderful father - I never once in my life heard him say anything deeming towards women, and he adores and respects my mom. wonderful brothers and husband, too.

Excellent post, OP...

I think for so many of us, unwanted advances, harassment, and worse are such a common life experience that it is like white noise. You barely notice it except for when it reaches the most invasive or threatening level.

This is part of why some women might not come forward right away. It isn't until looking back, from a safe distance and maturity that comes with time, that you realize how wrongly you were treated. In the moment, it is just "life" ... just another guy aggressively trying to get into your pants.

Thanks for your post - this is probably the best internet discussion I've read on this subject.

a reply to: violet

I am so blown away by what I'm reading in this thread. Totally not surprised though.

I believe most every woman has gone through similiar events but really good looking women have some of the worst stories in terms of lifetime harassment.

It's like their whole lives revolved around protecting themselves, or dealing with the consequences of their good looks, or feeling guilty or complicit, or confused.

You're right.

It's a curse in a lot of ways.