I'd Guess maybe 5 Percent of those who watch the NFL stand for the Anthem. The hypocrisy is HUGE

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: ColoradoJens

Do tell. Until last week it would have never occurred to me to stand in my living room for the national anthem.

Did it ever occur to you to kneel?

No, why would I?

Just like for 99% of everyone here.

I can't discount the percentage.

Glad you agree people have chosen to be upset for something they themselves don't do.

Were you gnashing with the thought, oh man, what if that camera on my TV is watching me and I'm not standing?

No. Do you?

No. But if the crazies who equate a silent protest during the anthem as treason keep it up, it ain't far off.

a reply to: ColoradoJens
We all stand (or sit or kneel) for our own reasons. In the OP you called it "selective outrage" when that was exactly the point of the kneeling through the anthem. Kaepernick could have kneeled during the commercial breaks if he didn't want the outrage. The disrespect was intentional and the 'outrage' the expected and desired result.

What do you suppose would have come from the protests if there was no 'outrage'?

In protest of the disrespect to veterans I have benched my entire fantasy football team and am boycotting the NFL until all of the players stand. I will never spend another dime on the NFL again until they respect our veterans.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MysticPearl

If they really cared about free speech, they would support our right to disagree with the football players taking the knee.

Who doesn't?

Do you not support our right to disagree with your disagreement?

I haven't tried to silence you nor to change your view with inane threads pointing out your hypocrisy.

... and I’ve done that to you?

Not that I'm aware of. But I don't read all your posts.

Sorry.

originally posted by: ColoradoJens

originally posted by: yadda333

originally posted by: ColoradoJens

originally posted by: yadda333

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
I'd say many of the players in the NFL are very equipped to have the discussion.

Most of the general population is not well equipped to have this discussion. Taking a few undergrad classes in race and gender studies, postcolonialism, etc does not mean you are well equipped.

And maybe that's the problem: A small amount of education and a whole lotta misapplication.

Well, I'd say growing up in extreme poverty as a black man gives them insight you or I may not have.

Interesting how you just put all of them in a nice, tidy little box. What gives you the right to assume that the black protesters grew up in poverty? And what about the other protesters?

Since when did humans lose their right to be an individual and have a unique, individual perspective?

This is the problem. There's not enough critical thinking going on.

Er, ok. You do realize that most nil players are black, right? You do realize that most of them grew up poor right?
So that gives them perspective. The best part, as said by several of the white players, is that an NFL locker room is WAY more inclusive than the outside world. They understand why they are protesting, and even if they don't agree with their stance they support them. Weird, right?

your missing the entire argument. its not about the protest and what it stands for, its the moment chosen to protest that is the problem. your going to offend a bunch of people who grew up believing in liberty freedom and the pursuit of happiness for "EVERYONE" which the flag and anthem represents when u spit in its face no matter what message u have. that part will offend people. i dont think ive heard one person make the argument that racism by the police is a good thing thus the protest is stupid. it has to do with holding that protest at that moment. choose any other time during the game, before or after and there would be no outrage over this

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: roadgravel
What about the Olympics? USA gold medal, anthem played.

Okay, so I'm middle-aged IT director who hasn't played any sports since high school except a couple pick up games of football. Oh and horseshoes and the occasional game of badminton with one of those cheap sets people put up, play with for a couple days until they've mangled/lost all the birdies and half the rackets have too many broken strings to play.

The question is: what could I start training to gold medal in? (okay, bronze)

How about the BME Pain Olympics?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Nyiah

Because the are in public with a large group of their fellow citizens.

But a packed sports bar is not a large group of their fellow citizens and thus no ritual warranted.

You folks make zero sense, it;s obvious flag & anthem etiquette necessity is HIGHLY subjective to you. You just won't admit it.

But it is etiquette. That’s the point, no matter what anyone thinks of the flag.

Would you take your shoes off at the Taj Mahal, even though you weren’t Muslim nor Indian?

It is selectively applied etiquette. If it's not necessary for a packed bar to display the etiquette, then you must concede it's not necessary elsewhere large groups of citizens have congregated. You are arguing that the etiquette is unconditional while giving solid examples that it is indeed conditional.
Make up your mind.

If others in the bar started standing and singing the national anthem, you’d be a buzz kill and not take part? What a buzz-kill.

You've avoided what I've pointed out quite well, kudos to the sidestepping attempt. You argue people must do so in a group setting, but bars don't count. If bars do not count, then why should anyone participate and why would anyone care if I did or didn't?

I also said it was etiquette and civic custom, something you’ve sidestepped.

But you said bars & the like don't count because:

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ColoradoJens

It’s about doing it with others. The national anthem, and standing for it, is the last customary gesture that binds all the people of the country together. It’s simple etiquette.

So why don't people do it together at bars and homes?

Because they are not where the anthem is being played.

By your own admission, they're not where it's being played, so etiquette and civic customs are completely conditional. Or, in plain English, optional.

I was trying to explain the etiquette and custom part, something I still don’t think you understand. When we’re at sporting event, the anthem is being played and people are taking their hats off, we join them in that custom out of respect. It is also a good time to reflect on the lives lost in order to defend the country, and to honor them.

Is it really?

Do you honestly believe that most people are taking a moment to reflect on the lives lost in defense of their country during the national anthem?

Sounds like you might be pouring it on a tad too thick here Les.

Mostly what happens is people stand up because that's what's expected and they might mouth the words, probably getting a few wrong, and wait patiently for it to be over so that they can sit down again.

There are of course exceptions, like say after 9/11 or on the eve or war. And to me, that's perhaps the saddest part of this whole thing. In most cases, standing for the singing of the national anthem is just a perfunctory thing. Not because people don't love their country but because compulsory displays of patriotism are unnatural as hell. But under different circumstances, those same people will actually choke up as patriotism wells in their bosoms and they feel a part of something larger than themselves, something great.

If anything, the national anthem is overplayed and its done as a sort of clumsy attempt at indoctrination and folks just go with it out of a need to... what's that buzzword for hipster right-wingers? Virtue signal?

I'm not doing it anymore. I won't submit to conservative correctness and participate in this virtue signalling charade. I'll participate when it's truly appropriate and I think I'm capable of determining when that is without it being part of a routine of cheapening banality.

a reply to: TheScale

If people are offended by someone's freedom of expression then I'd say they hold tradition to be more important than personal rights.

a reply to: 3daysgone

That video is fake af but hey, kudos for having a long history of consistently falling for bull# on the Internet.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Nyiah

Because the are in public with a large group of their fellow citizens.

But a packed sports bar is not a large group of their fellow citizens and thus no ritual warranted.

You folks make zero sense, it;s obvious flag & anthem etiquette necessity is HIGHLY subjective to you. You just won't admit it.

But it is etiquette. That’s the point, no matter what anyone thinks of the flag.

Would you take your shoes off at the Taj Mahal, even though you weren’t Muslim nor Indian?

It is selectively applied etiquette. If it's not necessary for a packed bar to display the etiquette, then you must concede it's not necessary elsewhere large groups of citizens have congregated. You are arguing that the etiquette is unconditional while giving solid examples that it is indeed conditional.
Make up your mind.

If others in the bar started standing and singing the national anthem, you’d be a buzz kill and not take part? What a buzz-kill.

You've avoided what I've pointed out quite well, kudos to the sidestepping attempt. You argue people must do so in a group setting, but bars don't count. If bars do not count, then why should anyone participate and why would anyone care if I did or didn't?

I also said it was etiquette and civic custom, something you’ve sidestepped.

But you said bars & the like don't count because:

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ColoradoJens

It’s about doing it with others. The national anthem, and standing for it, is the last customary gesture that binds all the people of the country together. It’s simple etiquette.

So why don't people do it together at bars and homes?

Because they are not where the anthem is being played.

By your own admission, they're not where it's being played, so etiquette and civic customs are completely conditional. Or, in plain English, optional.

I was trying to explain the etiquette and custom part, something I still don’t think you understand. When we’re at sporting event, the anthem is being played and people are taking their hats off, we join them in that custom out of respect. It is also a good time to reflect on the lives lost in order to defend the country, and to honor them.

Is it really?

Do you honestly believe that most people are taking a moment to reflect on the lives lost in defense of their country during the national anthem?

Sounds like you might be pouring it on a tad too thick here Les.

Mostly what happens is people stand up because that's what's expected and they might mouth the words, probably getting a few wrong, and wait patiently for it to be over so that they can sit down again.

There are of course exceptions, like say after 9/11 or on the eve or war. And to me, that's perhaps the saddest part of this whole thing. In most cases, standing for the singing of the national anthem is just a perfunctory thing. Not because people don't love their country but because compulsory displays of patriotism are unnatural as hell. But under different circumstances, those same people will actually choke up as patriotism wells in their bosoms and they feel a part of something larger than themselves, something great.

If anything, the national anthem is overplayed and its done as a sort of clumsy attempt at indoctrination and folks just go with it out of a need to... what's that buzzword for hipster right-wingers? Virtue signal?

I'm not doing it anymore. I won't submit to conservative correctness and participate in this virtue signalling charade. I'll participate when it's truly appropriate and I think I'm capable of determining when that is without it being part of routine of cheapening banality.

awe... so you want to sit on the sidelines and judge the actions of others hard work and then youll determine if you can salute that flag. you really think highly of yourself eh? why not try and fix the problems. get your hands dirty. then youll have something to be proud of when u look at that flag and remember the work u put in to uphold the values and ideals of this country

a reply to: theantediluvian

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: TheScale

If people are offended by someone's freedom of expression then I'd say they hold tradition to be more important than personal rights.

You've never been offended by what others believe or have said?

I have.

The KKK, BLM both have made me ashamed of being part of the same species.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MysticPearl

If they really cared about free speech, they would support our right to disagree with the football players taking the knee.

Who doesn't?

Do you not support our right to disagree with your disagreement?

I haven't tried to silence you nor to change your view with inane threads pointing out your hypocrisy.

... and I’ve done that to you?

Not that I'm aware of. But I don't read all your posts.

Sorry.

It’s okay.

originally posted by: ColoradoJens

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: ColoradoJens

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ColoradoJens

It’s about doing it with others. The national anthem, and standing for it, is the last customary gesture that binds all the people of the country together. It’s simple etiquette.

So why don't people do it together at bars and homes?

Because they are not where the anthem is being played.

The anthem is being played on TVs.
The point is the fake outrage. If people are so outraged about the players not standing then why are they not doing it at bars and homes? Isn't that being disrespectful to the flag?

No.

In the same way the players were not being disrespectful to the flag.

Is masturbating to the Flag being disrespectful? Some people probably do that, you know. I bet there are people who even masturbate with Old Glory wrapped around da pole.

Good lord. No need to project.

I permission needed? My God..What happened to "free speech" in this country?!

Go for it. Keep telling us what else may be happening with flags and naked people.

When I was a little tike, a "streaker" ran onto the field, wrapped in the U.S. Flag.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
A moment of silence. Please have some respect.

I fully respect her form of protest.

#freethenipple?

I'm on board if that's where she's going with it.

a reply to: ColoradoJens

I do, I was brought up to and still do it today. My father went through two wars and and while he would say he fought to defend freedoms he would not get too upset if he was the only one in the room to stand hat in hand.
Though I don't buy into all the BS being manufactured about all this mess. I personally think it's disrespectful but I wont go so far as to jump up and down about it. The country was founded on a set of freedoms including the ability to peacefully protest. The teams?, the league? They can say what these people will do as they are their employers and they are at work. If it bothers others enough they can make their voice heard with their wallets. But I have watched this the last several days mushroom into friends no longer speaking and even one fistfight. It's not good to see yet another trigger event cause more divide in the country that already is too divided. We already have way too much.

You are right though OP. if they are not standing themselves then they shouldn't get too bent others are not.

a reply to: TheScale

Sir! You offend me! It was my understanding that I could make America great simply by the act of purchasing Trump merch made in China.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: 3daysgone

That video is fake af but hey, kudos for having a long history of consistently falling for bull# on the Internet.

What video? I only heard about it. I don't know if it is real or not, so I didn't fall for it. You the one that asked the question, I was giving you something to shoot for.

a reply to: theantediluvian

It is a little dramatic, admittedly.

But while you may bond with others of like mind and words, some prefer to engage in others with like behaviour and conduct. I’ve grown to prefer the latter. Besides, I went through my anti-social phase when I was much younger.

originally posted by: ColoradoJens


Er, ok. You do realize that most nil players are black, right? You do realize that most of them grew up poor right?

Therefore you may stereotype and generalize at will. Fun!

You're way out of your element here.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

You know. The Statue of Liberty could use a friend. Just an idea.