Alert: Bush-Bully Attacks on the Rise

as posted by WrydeOne
You are asking that the opinion be taken out of journalism?

No.
What I am indicating is that there is a difference between objective journalism and subjective journalism, as there is with reporting just the facts and an Op/Ed piece.




seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by MaskedAvatar
PS. Are you really paid to spread such, "relatively", as your response intimates?

Typical MaskedAvatar.

Are you also talking out your relative back-side, too?



seekerof

No, while my niece has one of the finer examples of one of those, it is spoken of an not out of, to finetune the answer to your valid question.

Thank you for clarifying that for me, along with your nieces concern.
So you do have a sense of humor? Good to see, if you do.




seekerof

Bush Bullies. Heh.
When it comes to Bush, the only real way to deal with a Right Wing nut Job is to confound them with facts. You see alot of them on here and the only response that they can seem to muster in rebutting the facts, is to make broad sweeping generalizations and rhetorical patriotism. You will rarely see a Bush Bully post links or cite sources or bother to research information that you provide them with. Drhoracid, and perhaps edsinger, as much as I disagree with them at times, at least makes an effort to base their statements on linked information. Most of them either depend entirely on repetitive or rhetorical bologna they pick up in the form of catch phrases. Some of them are so far gone as to think the US is in a state of perpetual righteousness, despite mountains of irrefutable evidence to they contrary. Those, my friends, are what i call Right Wing nut Jobs, and when they get out of line, send them to The Memory Hole or Somewhere they can get a decent Bush 101 course.
They just can't accept that people like Barry Seal ran around with Bush Sr. home phone number in back pocket, or that John Hinkley was a long time Bush Family friend. They can't open their eyes to the fact that even Bush's own family members have decried a former coc aine habbit, and it doesn't bother them in the least that Diebold and ESS and Sequoia own the democratic process. They don't understand why it might be interesting to us that Neil bush owned and operated the Security Company responsible for The World Trade Center until the exact date of 9-11. But it's stuff like that that they can only respond to with a "So What?", and that's when you know you got your licks in. I was always told the best cure for a bully is a good education, so let's give them one.

Seeker
Those are the standards, agreed.

Those standards of objectivity are not followed by the mainstream media. I don't know enough about the media of other countries to comment on them, but I know too DAMN much about the American media to believe that they are objective. I know, by weight of the facts, that no corporate news outlet follows the rigorous standards of objective journalism. Corporations will not publish all stories brought to them by investigative journalists, they will pick and choose, and take only those stories that do not harm their stock profile or business projects.
Say ABC and NBC were going to merge (I know it's a ridiculous example, but it's an easy one.) - Would either one run stories related to side profits, corporate fraud, executive benefits, layoffs, or similar that might cause investigation or investor dissatisfaction? Of course not, their track records prove this in every case. There should be laws against the Pentopoly in place, but there aren't and never will be. Similarly, if the news vendor owns or is owned by other smaller companies, the news vendor will seek to project the image of those companies onto the news in a positive way, while minimizing news stories that paint them in a bad light. It's profit driven, not objective.
Those private news sources that disseminate unbiased, even coverage of events in this country are few and far between. Even the so called free presses in this country mostly publish leftist propaganda. Asking for neutral news is like asking for a revolution. The standards have been eroded to the point they can no longer be relied upon. What is to be done about this? Surely you agree with me that there is a problem?

Originally posted by Seekerof

soficrow:

...What grinds me is when some people flame under cover of the "deny ignorance" banner.

Please feel free to name names at any time, k? Make sure that you positively have my name on that list.

Sure.

Here's how I see it since your giving it from your own perspective: you, as with others, are anti-Bush, anti-Iraq, etc.

No. I am pro-people. I also am very concerned about what's happening in the world right now - on many fronts. IMO - Bush is just a puppet - and I was just as critical of the last puppet, and will be with the next.

you post some material that is or has amounted to being so slanted, seriously biased, and either quite unfounded or being considered 'half-truths and 'half-facts'.

I have my own take on things. I am an individual, with my own mind. ...But NOTHING I post is "quite unfounded." I reference nearly everything up the wazoo - and waaayyy more than most anyone else here.

you are doing it under the guise of an objective ATSNN Reporter.

a - I write news articles and thread posts differently, allowing myself greater leeway on the latter. Perfectly fine IMO.

b - the notion of an 'objective' observer was debunked long ago. Now, it generally serves a fiction to promote government funded propaganda.

c - it's not a guise. I AM an atsnnn reporter until I get demoted.

Thats what grinds me, but alas soficrow, it seems that the new upcoming ATSNN operating system for submitting articles will change all that, therefore, my "grind" ceases to then exist when such takes place.

I predict that the Bush-Bully Brownshirt Brigade will attempt a coup and takeover, and institute chaos. It just came to me, kind of like a vision.

...whatever you or I or another presents as a topic is open to interpretation, criticism, and being hammered. If you can't stand any of the above, then refrain from creating topic threads entitled: Alert: Bush-Bully Attacks on the Rise.

I can defend myself perfectly well. MY point is that the board suffers, and so do other people. I see good kids and thoughtful participants run off the site - they either get attacked themselves, or see someone else attacked - and they shut up, give up and go away.

Again:

...What grinds me is when some people flame under cover of the "deny ignorance" banner. Flaming is not denying ignorance - it is ignorant, and it's abuse. I'm just calling it like it is.

A real critique makes you think, and helps you recognize that the world is a bigger, more interesting place. It gives you wings.

Go ahead and flame away - but if I catch you or anyone else justifying such behavior, and saying you are offering "criticism" or "denying ignorance" - hey, expect to get called on your bs.


.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Even the so called free presses in this country mostly publish leftist propaganda.

Can you elaborate by citing some examples, and the measure by which you judge "mostly" and "leftist propaganda"?

It would be interesting to dissect a couple of current issues of the ones that you cite here to see whether there is the imbalance you perceive.

Originally posted by soficrow
So true. Has the whole "my dad's tougher than your dad" ring to it.

My take on that statement - no matter who's in the Oval Office, some of us would still be bitchin and fault-findin...

Yep. I'm one.




Aren't we all, lol. A right as sacrosanct as dissin' your boss!

Sidenote, not particularly relevant, this thread just reminded me of it for some reason:

I remember once many years ago, way back in the 80's when the world was still innocent and pure, I was stopped in the street by a lady wanting me to participate in a survey about NZ politicians. I remember remarking that I "wouldn't waste a bullet on any of them" and had no intention of voting until they put someone up that was worth voting for. I remember that offended her at the time, so imagine if I had done that today. She would have only had to make one phone call and I probably would have been arrested and interrogated for days to see if I was going to try and re-enact Guy Foulkes (blow up parliament) or something similar. Times they are a changin...

Originally posted by Seekerof

Billybob, propaganda is utilized by all parties, is it not? If so, why are you addressing simply those "fascists"?
"Brownshirted" is relative to the person giving the opinion and those that agree, correct?
And to address your last mention above, being "sure" is also relative. You have any undeniable proof of such? If so, produce it. If you can't, your simply talking out you back-side, eh?

yes. propoganda is utilised by all parties. the physical manifestation of the philosophy of any given group of people is ruled by popular belief. competition for the 'head' or controlling interest is the stuff of kings and priests.

my thing with fascists, is, I DON"T LIKE THEM.

i think if i was a book that was burned by a brownshirt, or a book that was thrown into a fireplace during a lover's quarrel, i wouldn't care. if i was a person who was murdered for what is in my thought patterns, then, no, the only relativity would be between being alive and being dead.

if i'm talking out my backside, perhaps the scent will attract some well-needed attention to what i am ALWAYS trying to say: 'we are all one'.

There is a trend right now, towards polarization. People are 'encouraged' to join the left or the right. There are a whole lot of 'revolutionaries' all around the country who think they're helping by rooting for the democrats or the communists instead of the republicans, but they're not. They're playing a role designed for them, they're the bad guys designed to rally the other side. Partisanship is encouraged, and propaganda is supplied to both camps to work them into a fervor. The truth is concealed by both those groups, and the eventual result is a small percentage of the populace that knows both sides. That's the intent of course, to keep inteligence compartmentalized. There are anti-terrorist provisions in PA 2 that allow prosecutors to use evidence of NEWS GATHERING as cause when seeking a search warrant or surveilance order, even arrest and torture waivers. Anybody who seeks to put the puzzle pieces together will be prosecuted, incarcerated, perhaps 'legally' without trial, tortured, even tried by a tribunal and executed without ever seeing their family, their lawyer, a jury.

Meanwhile the other side's completely loyal no matter what (I suspect brainwashing), neither one of which knows what's going on, and they HATE each other for all the reasons in the world [conventiently supplied to them]. There are hundreds of 'underground' college papers in the US, fully three quarters of them are completely left leaning with irrelevant non-scandals on the front page, and interviews with pop stars in the back pages, along with half rate poetry and sports commentaries. The remaining are completely right leaning, with the kind of christian, all-american go-team go stuff you hear from O'Reilly and his putrid ilk. There are few-none in between. The same is true of the entire media for the most part, but the disparity between leftist and right leaning coverage has equalized in recent years, I'd say it's around 60% - 40% demo-leaning. There is a good deal of 'Republican' sentiment crossing the airwaves these days, except most of it isn't even Republican at all, it's called that, but really it's more PNAC. Real Republicans are almost afraid to speak up, but I find those who haven't attended rallies are more interested in other viewpoints. The desire of the government to reign in dissent, maintain a pristine image for its loyal followers, and behind the scenes they revive mandatory military service plans and fill draft boards. Something bad happens then we go to war with a bunch of nations one after the other or all at once. Bush is a war president, but notice there is a media silence regarding the anti-war movement? Even the 'democrats' are pro war these days because they've leaned right seeking votes and maintain support of the president instead of getting shouted down in the halls of government. That's a lot like what happens on ATS sometimes, I'd like to mention. There is an absolute truth hidden, but in order to find it, you have to slog through swamps, entire continents seemingly filled with incomplete information. It was expertly done, but a coup has been performed upon us. Happened like 30 years ago, LOL, and nobody really noticed cause they slipped it in REAL slow. LOL We're getting F$%&ed and we don't even realize it yet.

Probably 'we' never wake up again. There're a few, but they don't matter. What matters is most of the country is fast asleep, dreaming patriotic dreams. I think the battle for the future was lost already, and the battle for survival has begun. That's just my opinion.

Let's compare two papers, same story.

The lawyer convicted in NY for aiding terrorists.

www.latimes.com...

"NEW YORK — In a case with broad implications for civil liberties and America's war on terrorism, an outspoken civil rights lawyer and two colleagues were convicted Thursday of conspiring to smuggle information to an imprisoned Egyptian cleric, and of helping him communicate incendiary messages to terrorists around the world.
After 13 days of deliberations, a federal jury convicted lawyer Lynne F. Stewart on charges of giving material support to international terrorists and making false statements to the U.S. government. She faces as much as 20 years in prison."


www.indystar.com...

"NEW YORK -- A civil rights lawyer was convicted Thursday of smuggling messages of violence from one of her jailed clients -- a radical Egyptian sheik -- to his terrorist disciples on the outside.
The jury deliberated 13 days over the past month before convicting Lynne Stewart, 65, a firebrand activist known for representing radicals and revolutionaries in her 30 years on the New York legal scene.
The trial focused attention on the line between zealous advocacy and criminal behavior by a lawyer. Some defense lawyers saw the case as a government warning to attorneys to tread carefully in terrorism cases."

Tell me there isn't a stark difference in presentation, facts, the order in which issues are brought up, adjectives used, inferences drawn, sources quoted. These two articles are exemplary of most US media, and couldn't be more different from each other. I could go on and post more, but they're right out there for everyone to look out. Check out the MAIN sources, then work your way out to the fringe. The pattern is steadily maintained throughought all strata of the media, extremism is being encouraged during a purported war on extremism.

LOL try using a tier 3 search engine some time and see if there isn't a difference in the quality of links. These are from Google, the big dog of Tier 1, but just for fun try it sometime. There is a greater amount of diveristy, and less extremism. LOL

Look, whoever they are, their plan is brilliant, and well executed. I for one am sitting back and waiting to see what breaks with the dawn of each new day. I couldn't be more excited for the future, things have never been so interesting. What a terrible trap for the unexpecting, and what enormous entertainment for the informed. Or is it the other way around?

This thread is a bit far fetched. God forbid someone actually defend Bush - or even worse *GASP* - ask for proof of an accusation.

And then when the source is clearly dubious, how dare we question the source...I mean, It is on the internet right?

There are far more "Bush Bashers" who use the same 'bully' techniques this threads author described then there are "Bush Bullys". You can pretty much count the number of Bush supporters on this site with two hands, yet the majority of our nation voted for him? Something tells me that there are more Bush supporters chased away from this site then anyone else.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
This thread is a bit far fetched. God forbid someone actually defend Bush - or even worse *GASP* - ask for proof of an accusation.

And then when the source is clearly dubious, how dare we question the source...I mean, It is on the internet right?

There are far more "Bush Bashers" who use the same 'bully' techniques this threads author described then there are "Bush Bullys". You can pretty much count the number of Bush supporters on this site with two hands, yet the majority of our nation voted for him? Something tells me that there are more Bush supporters chased away from this site then anyone else.

Yes, it does seem that Pro-bush, heck, even defending anyone in this administration gets you flamed by mass "leftist agenda bullies". (LAB's) henceforth............So I will start a lab attack warning...........

Seems only fair.....................

This whole thread is confusing to me. We all have the right to voice our opinion which ever way it is, so what's the problem? Just because you don't like what the other side says, you start a whole thread about it?

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Yes, it does seem that Pro-bush, heck, even defending anyone in this administration gets you flamed by mass "leftist agenda bullies". (LAB's) henceforth............So I will start a lab attack warning...........

Seems only fair.....................

Remember not to confuse the everyday liberal leftist hobo with your most commonly known internet conspiracy theorist...

90% of us believe that the Bush administration contains enormous amounts of skeletons in it's closets. Quite possibly a few dresses too if you take into consideration Bush's frat days!