Trump-BOYCOTT NFL teams whose players refuse to stand for the National Anthem

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Grambler

I've seen posters saying that those players should be forced to stand up for anthem.

By there employer or by the law?

By the way, I disagree with bith, but I have seen most people echoing trump, saying they should stand or be fired.

That is not a first amendment issue.

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MysticPearl

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

They are using the flag and anthem to protest against racism.

They are drawing attention.

It works.

Does it? I guess it works in the same way that calling all Muslims terrorists works in highlighting the threat of radical extremists.

It's working fabulously, UKTruth. There's been a sharp and obvious decline in racism and racists because of the kneeling, can't you see? By my count, racism is down 47% because of the kneeling. I say by the first week of Dec that racism will be abolished because of the kneeling.

Indeed. I'm sure antagonising people by disrespecting their country will do a bang-up job of reducing racism.

Exercising Constituional rights = disrespecting their country

Spot on in this case. No one is saying these players have no right to disrespect the country, are they?
They have every right - such is the magnificence of your constitution and system. It doesn't change the fact that is what they are doing, though.

see this is a common misconception. they do not have a right to protest while working for another company if that company deems the behavior as unbecoming, distasteful, unpatriotic, etc etc. its up to them to choose. the players have every right to protest in whatever way they want within the laws outside of their job, that is true. if the nfl wants to enforce a code of conduct, which btw they allready do, then they have every right to do it and if the players dont like it they can walk. many are not allowed to ride motorcycles, parachute, scuba dive, etc etc.

They have the right, even as an employee. No employer can take away that right. What they can do is fire them... free speech does not come without consequences.

see u dont seem to understand, while on the job, getting paid by the minute, then no they do not have the right to start protesting. when they get off work and they are on their own time then they can protest without worry of repercussions. again though the nfl also has a code of conduct and they could terminate your employment if u break that code of conduct. its not like anything is being forced or rights are being taken away. u agree to those terms when u sign the contract, if u dont like it u could protest it, but the company has the right to keep their rules the exact same aswell and not hire you

I get your point. However, a contract with an employer only means you face consequences for your actions. You still retain the right to protest if you want to and are prepared to face those consequences.

a reply to: Grambler

You could be right. I haven't seen anyone saying that they should be forced by law, at least here on ATS.

But yeah like you said people want them fired.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

He revels in adulation from his base. That's it.
He has no ideology and he cares nothing about his job. Only the power which he thinks it gives him. He is gradually learning the limits of that power.

Thanks for that opinion.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You may find that we agree on more things than we disagree on. Often times the route to arrive is the bone of contention as often times there is no one answer solution. Angering people is not the best way to advance a message. The anthem is a solemn moment much like a eulogy during a funeral, informing me I can save 15% with Geico during Grandma's funeral doesn't endear me to the message.

As for the message of racism, yes it exists. I have fought it. I have also spoken with the family of a man that did a similar thing during the Civil Right Era when racism was far more rampant. Don't dilute the message by stunts and making martyrs out of individuals that resisted arrest after committing crimes no matter if they were petty.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MysticPearl

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

They are using the flag and anthem to protest against racism.

They are drawing attention.

It works.

Does it? I guess it works in the same way that calling all Muslims terrorists works in highlighting the threat of radical extremists.

It's working fabulously, UKTruth. There's been a sharp and obvious decline in racism and racists because of the kneeling, can't you see? By my count, racism is down 47% because of the kneeling. I say by the first week of Dec that racism will be abolished because of the kneeling.

Indeed. I'm sure antagonising people by disrespecting their country will do a bang-up job of reducing racism.

Exercising Constituional rights = disrespecting their country

Spot on in this case. No one is saying these players have no right to disrespect the country, are they?
They have every right - such is the magnificence of your constitution and system. It doesn't change the fact that is what they are doing, though.

see this is a common misconception. they do not have a right to protest while working for another company if that company deems the behavior as unbecoming, distasteful, unpatriotic, etc etc. its up to them to choose. the players have every right to protest in whatever way they want within the laws outside of their job, that is true. if the nfl wants to enforce a code of conduct, which btw they allready do, then they have every right to do it and if the players dont like it they can walk. many are not allowed to ride motorcycles, parachute, scuba dive, etc etc.

They have the right, even as an employee. No employer can take away that right. What they can do is fire them... free speech does not come without consequences.

see u dont seem to understand, while on the job, getting paid by the minute, then no they do not have the right to start protesting. when they get off work and they are on their own time then they can protest without worry of repercussions. again though the nfl also has a code of conduct and they could terminate your employment if u break that code of conduct. its not like anything is being forced or rights are being taken away. u agree to those terms when u sign the contract, if u dont like it u could protest it, but the company has the right to keep their rules the exact same aswell and not hire you

I get your point. However, a contract with an employer only means you face consequences for your actions. You still retain the right to protest if you want to and are prepared to face those consequences.

so you realize by your logic your basically saying if your at work u dont need to provide the service u were hired to provide and instead u can protest anything and everything, doesnt matter what cause its your right to protest, and your employer will still have to pay u for your time at the job. you dont have the right to do whatever u want when youve been hired to provide a service. if your boss wants u to wear a clown suit and ride a tiny clown bike in circles and u agree to that job and dont provide the service they can fire u on the spot.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Was what Rosa Parks did a stunt?
Were the Vietnam war protests stunts?


Were they pointless? Fruitless?

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MysticPearl

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

They are using the flag and anthem to protest against racism.

They are drawing attention.

It works.

Does it? I guess it works in the same way that calling all Muslims terrorists works in highlighting the threat of radical extremists.

It's working fabulously, UKTruth. There's been a sharp and obvious decline in racism and racists because of the kneeling, can't you see? By my count, racism is down 47% because of the kneeling. I say by the first week of Dec that racism will be abolished because of the kneeling.

Indeed. I'm sure antagonising people by disrespecting their country will do a bang-up job of reducing racism.

Exercising Constituional rights = disrespecting their country

Spot on in this case. No one is saying these players have no right to disrespect the country, are they?
They have every right - such is the magnificence of your constitution and system. It doesn't change the fact that is what they are doing, though.

see this is a common misconception. they do not have a right to protest while working for another company if that company deems the behavior as unbecoming, distasteful, unpatriotic, etc etc. its up to them to choose. the players have every right to protest in whatever way they want within the laws outside of their job, that is true. if the nfl wants to enforce a code of conduct, which btw they allready do, then they have every right to do it and if the players dont like it they can walk. many are not allowed to ride motorcycles, parachute, scuba dive, etc etc.

They have the right, even as an employee. No employer can take away that right. What they can do is fire them... free speech does not come without consequences.

see u dont seem to understand, while on the job, getting paid by the minute, then no they do not have the right to start protesting. when they get off work and they are on their own time then they can protest without worry of repercussions. again though the nfl also has a code of conduct and they could terminate your employment if u break that code of conduct. its not like anything is being forced or rights are being taken away. u agree to those terms when u sign the contract, if u dont like it u could protest it, but the company has the right to keep their rules the exact same aswell and not hire you

I get your point. However, a contract with an employer only means you face consequences for your actions. You still retain the right to protest if you want to and are prepared to face those consequences.

so you realize by your logic your basically saying if your at work u dont need to provide the service u were hired to provide and instead u can protest anything and everything, doesnt matter what cause its your right to protest, and your employer will still have to pay u for your time at the job. you dont have the right to do whatever u want when youve been hired to provide a service. if your boss wants u to wear a clown suit and ride a tiny clown bike in circles and u agree to that job and dont provide the service they can fire u on the spot.

I understand that no matter what contract I sign with an employer I have the right to do what I want within the law. My employer may fire me. That would be their right under the terms of the contract I signed.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MysticPearl

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

They are using the flag and anthem to protest against racism.

They are drawing attention.

It works.

Does it? I guess it works in the same way that calling all Muslims terrorists works in highlighting the threat of radical extremists.

It's working fabulously, UKTruth. There's been a sharp and obvious decline in racism and racists because of the kneeling, can't you see? By my count, racism is down 47% because of the kneeling. I say by the first week of Dec that racism will be abolished because of the kneeling.

Indeed. I'm sure antagonising people by disrespecting their country will do a bang-up job of reducing racism.

Exercising Constituional rights = disrespecting their country

Spot on in this case. No one is saying these players have no right to disrespect the country, are they?
They have every right - such is the magnificence of your constitution and system. It doesn't change the fact that is what they are doing, though.

see this is a common misconception. they do not have a right to protest while working for another company if that company deems the behavior as unbecoming, distasteful, unpatriotic, etc etc. its up to them to choose. the players have every right to protest in whatever way they want within the laws outside of their job, that is true. if the nfl wants to enforce a code of conduct, which btw they allready do, then they have every right to do it and if the players dont like it they can walk. many are not allowed to ride motorcycles, parachute, scuba dive, etc etc.

They have the right, even as an employee. No employer can take away that right. What they can do is fire them... free speech does not come without consequences.

see u dont seem to understand, while on the job, getting paid by the minute, then no they do not have the right to start protesting. when they get off work and they are on their own time then they can protest without worry of repercussions. again though the nfl also has a code of conduct and they could terminate your employment if u break that code of conduct. its not like anything is being forced or rights are being taken away. u agree to those terms when u sign the contract, if u dont like it u could protest it, but the company has the right to keep their rules the exact same aswell and not hire you

I get your point. However, a contract with an employer only means you face consequences for your actions. You still retain the right to protest if you want to and are prepared to face those consequences.

so you realize by your logic your basically saying if your at work u dont need to provide the service u were hired to provide and instead u can protest anything and everything, doesnt matter what cause its your right to protest, and your employer will still have to pay u for your time at the job. you dont have the right to do whatever u want when youve been hired to provide a service. if your boss wants u to wear a clown suit and ride a tiny clown bike in circles and u agree to that job and dont provide the service they can fire u on the spot.

I understand that no matter what contract I sign with an employer I have the right to do what I want within the law. My employer may fire me. That would be their right under the terms of the contract I signed.

yes and your right is to protest "ON YOUR OWN TIME". not while on the clock and getting paid by the employer. when your on the clock the employer gets to dictate whatever they want within the law which can mean a plethora of things even the haircut you have

originally posted by: UKTruth
I get your point. However, a contract with an employer only means you face consequences for your actions. You still retain the right to protest if you want to and are prepared to face those consequences.

You know ultimately it's up to the employer, right? I mean, you're the British American laws expert telling all us Yanks how stuff works in the States, so I have to assume you do understand it's contingent on how the employer perceives a couple minutes of kneeling. (hint: I don't see any indication the NFL has any negative connotations over kneeling.) You seem to think they should start firing folks because you want them to, and are using the aspect of consequences to try to convince the rest of us.

Your knickers sure are way up there over an American sport league shrugging their shoulders on this one. Do you think anyone abroad would give a damn if any Cricket teams did this to protest UK laws?


Quick edit: Actually, apply this to Scale, not UKTruth. You & Scale have been gong back and forth so much that I lost track of who was arguing what. Sorry UK.

edit on 9/24/2017 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)

a reply to: TheScale

No. not all employers have rules like Walmart. These teams go to great lengths to recruit their players. It's highly competitive.
You think they are going to fire their talent because Donald Trump doesn't like their behavior? Pfft.

Anyway, much of his angst is because he knows they don't like him. His fragile ego can't take that.

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MysticPearl

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

They are using the flag and anthem to protest against racism.

They are drawing attention.

It works.

Does it? I guess it works in the same way that calling all Muslims terrorists works in highlighting the threat of radical extremists.

It's working fabulously, UKTruth. There's been a sharp and obvious decline in racism and racists because of the kneeling, can't you see? By my count, racism is down 47% because of the kneeling. I say by the first week of Dec that racism will be abolished because of the kneeling.

Indeed. I'm sure antagonising people by disrespecting their country will do a bang-up job of reducing racism.

Exercising Constituional rights = disrespecting their country

Spot on in this case. No one is saying these players have no right to disrespect the country, are they?
They have every right - such is the magnificence of your constitution and system. It doesn't change the fact that is what they are doing, though.

see this is a common misconception. they do not have a right to protest while working for another company if that company deems the behavior as unbecoming, distasteful, unpatriotic, etc etc. its up to them to choose. the players have every right to protest in whatever way they want within the laws outside of their job, that is true. if the nfl wants to enforce a code of conduct, which btw they allready do, then they have every right to do it and if the players dont like it they can walk. many are not allowed to ride motorcycles, parachute, scuba dive, etc etc.

They have the right, even as an employee. No employer can take away that right. What they can do is fire them... free speech does not come without consequences.

see u dont seem to understand, while on the job, getting paid by the minute, then no they do not have the right to start protesting. when they get off work and they are on their own time then they can protest without worry of repercussions. again though the nfl also has a code of conduct and they could terminate your employment if u break that code of conduct. its not like anything is being forced or rights are being taken away. u agree to those terms when u sign the contract, if u dont like it u could protest it, but the company has the right to keep their rules the exact same aswell and not hire you

I get your point. However, a contract with an employer only means you face consequences for your actions. You still retain the right to protest if you want to and are prepared to face those consequences.

so you realize by your logic your basically saying if your at work u dont need to provide the service u were hired to provide and instead u can protest anything and everything, doesnt matter what cause its your right to protest, and your employer will still have to pay u for your time at the job. you dont have the right to do whatever u want when youve been hired to provide a service. if your boss wants u to wear a clown suit and ride a tiny clown bike in circles and u agree to that job and dont provide the service they can fire u on the spot.

I understand that no matter what contract I sign with an employer I have the right to do what I want within the law. My employer may fire me. That would be their right under the terms of the contract I signed.

yes and your right is to protest "ON YOUR OWN TIME". not while on the clock and getting paid by the employer. when your own the clock the employer gets to dictate whatever they want within the law which can mean a plethora of things even the haircut you have

No, an employer has absolutely no right at all to stop me protesting whilst on the clock. They can fire me, but they can not stop me protesting.

a reply to: TheScale

Employees have no rights?
Wow.

originally posted by: amazing
Fake Outrage. This is America, we were founded on protest and revolution and pissing people off! That's what we do! We don't stand for that PC Crap and we have the freedom to do whatever the heck we want to do, whenever the heck we want to do it!

Trump seems like a communist dictator. "Protest me and you will be ruined" is in essence what hes' saying here.

Our Veterans fought for this right to protest. Doesn't he get this?

I think Trump handled the situation poorly -forget football- -stay off the twitter! He should have privately communicated with the owners and inquired about the situation-and not made it a public issue. That said Can you protest at your work your job? if the National Felony League morons want to protest they can do it on their own time after the game out side the stadium on the sidewalk. The ungrateful millionaires have been wronged and are now biting the hand that feeds them. There are thousands of players who would gladly take their place. The football owners better get a handle on their players soon- we don't need football.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: UKTruth
I get your point. However, a contract with an employer only means you face consequences for your actions. You still retain the right to protest if you want to and are prepared to face those consequences.

You know ultimately it's up to the employer, right? I mean, you're the British American laws expert telling all us Yanks how stuff works in the States, so I have to assume you do understand it's contingent on how the employer perceives a couple minutes of kneeling. (hint: I don't see any indication the NFL has any negative connotations over kneeling.) You seem to think they should start firing folks because you want them to, and are using the aspect of consequences to try to convince the rest of us.

Your knickers sure are way up there over an American sport league shrugging their shoulders on this one. Do you think anyone abroad would give a damn if any Cricket teams did this to protest UK laws?

No. It's not up to the employer whether I protest or not. That would be up to me.
Their option is to fire me.
Unless there is a new law that allows an employer to physically restrain me, tie me to my desk and make me work at gun point, I suspect I am closer to the actual law in your own country than you are .

a reply to: Phage

No, she stood up for herself.

A different question as not all protests were the same. But let's hit the big one...Kent State. There was some audio evidence that there may have been a first shot by a .38 special before the soldiers fired on the crowd. That shot was away from the soldiers position suggesting that they were fired upon or would have sounded that way to them.

a reply to: UKTruth

I got you & TheScale mixed up, the back and forth blurred together. I amended my post to reflect who that should have been directed at, sorry dude!

Edit: But if we are going to nitpick over the hows & whys of being fired over protesting, it's a legit thing, though. I can start a business and fire someone for being a neo-Nazi POS protesting openly, just the same as someone could fire me for the same. It does depend on the employer, and what they as a company want to be associated with by proxy.

a reply to: Nyiah

Ha OK - I thought it was a bit odd!
No problem.

a reply to: Ahabstar

No, she stood up for herself.

You think it was about her and her alone.

A different question as not all protests were the same. But let's hit the big one...Kent State.

Indeed they were not the same. I was present at more than one. Are you comparing what these players are doing to Kent State? What is your point with bringing that atrocity up?

You said this is nothing more than a stunt.

Don't dilute the message by stunts

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheScale
Employees have no rights? Like slaves?

wow talk about going straight to the deep end phage. maybe u keep missing "within the law." if your hired to provide a service as an employee and while on the clock u portray anything that your employer looks at in a negative way or as a detriment to the company then they have every right to put a stop to it within the law. on the flip side the employee has every right to up and walk away from the job albiet with some caveats on both sides depending on if their was a contract and what is within it. again though im not saying anything should be done outside the law on either side. if the nfl wants to tell their players to stand and if they dont there will be repercussions then thats their own prerogative. if the consumer of their product doesnt like that stance the free market will take care of it. if the players want to strike thats their prerogative. im for all sides having their rights not picking and choosing cause of the social environment at this second in history

edit: also as an employer i am in no way obligated to provide a platform for my employees to protest.