Gov. McAuliffee: You Are not Welcome

a reply to: Perfectenemy

I watched bits and pieces of the torch rally and they don't even knew how to do the proper Nazi salute. I was reminded why i never took the Alt-Right seriously in the first place. You really think they are real Nazis?

I'm not worried about their proper Nazi salutes! It's their Nazi ideals, rhetoric and methods that I abhor.

a reply to: angeldoll

To be fair I have never seen these morons until recently at any political events. I think some of the immigration and America first type rhetoric has them believing they somehow hold the conservative beliefs, and the party may have been willing to play with a little fire to try and get any edge in the elections.

I don't think most republicans are OK in any way with nazis. For instance Ben Sasse has been tweeting since the first incident.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: eNumbra

Where do you think their permits came from?

So you agree their rights weren't violated?

a reply to: Vorian

The Governor was the actually man that caused the problems. He and his people bused in Antifa and BLM, knowing very well it would stir and chaos and violence, and then he comes out and pretends he is the hero. lol It's so easy to manipulate leftists.

a reply to: amfirst1

Goes both ways. Look at the idiots in sheets.

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: Vorian

The Governor was the actually man that caused the problems. He and his people bused in Antifa and BLM, knowing very well it would stir and chaos and violence, and then he comes out and pretends he is the hero. lol It's so easy to manipulate leftists.

I had not seen that. Can you provide a source for that claim?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: angeldoll

To be fair I have never seen these morons until recently at any political events. I think some of the immigration and America first type rhetoric has them believing they somehow hold the conservative beliefs, and the party may have been willing to play with a little fire to try and get any edge in the elections.

I don't think most republicans are OK in any way with nazis. For instance Ben Sasse has been tweeting since the first incident.

Let's hope. But what we are seeing here on this site, is not so such much admonishment, but blaming it on "the others".
That's dangerous, further divisiveness, delusional, and building up yet more hatred and hostility, and there is always a crazy who wants to "take matters into his own hands".

I find it very troublesome.

a reply to: amfirst1

The Governor was the actually man that caused the problems. He and his people bused in Antifa and BLM........

Do you have a source for your assertion?

here's a video of the violence at the torch rally...



although the video says that the supremacists attacked the counter protesters, there is no way to tell in the video.
but, it's a fallacy to think that there was no violence during the torch rally.

also, while the supremacists are griping that the police were only protecting the counter protesters, the counter protesters are griping that the police were only protecting the supremacists...

this quiet little city had just been flooded with people who came just to upset that peace.
white supremacists, nazis, antifada, god only knows who else... some carrying guns, shields, flaming torches, and other objects that could be used to injure other human beings...
THEY CAME TO RUMBLE. all over a statue sitting in a city owned park!

I have to ask, what business is it to a guy living in ohio what kind of statue a small park in virginia has in it?? a park that he very well may have never had visited if it wasn't for this rally?
the thing I will say about the governor of virginia and what he said is they he should have made a point of telling them all to go home!

but, unless I am missing something, charlottesville wanted this rally moved to another locations because they were concerned about the logistics of it being in that park., but of course, ACLU had to step in and well, freedom of speech outweighed the city's ability to ensure that they were able to protect everyone..
so don't go blaming our governor, or the city, or the police, the state police, or the national guard..
and, don't blame the people of charlottesville..who had every right to demonstrate and speak out over this issue..
blame the hundreds of people who took it upon themselves to flock into their city armed and ready to rumble, just to stick their nose into an issue that had no effect on their lives!!

originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: angeldoll

To be fair I have never seen these morons until recently at any political events. I think some of the immigration and America first type rhetoric has them believing they somehow hold the conservative beliefs, and the party may have been willing to play with a little fire to try and get any edge in the elections.

I don't think most republicans are OK in any way with nazis. For instance Ben Sasse has been tweeting since the first incident.

Let's hope. But what we are seeing here on this site, is not so such much admonishment, but blaming it on "the others".
That's dangerous, further divisiveness, delusional, and building up yet more hatred and hostility, and there is always a crazy who wants to "take matters into his own hands".

I find it very troublesome.

Ats does not reflect reality.

a reply to: RomeByFire

Like i said you just spout nonsense that has nothing to do with allowing free speech. I'm sure you will not attack me in the future when i point out any attacks from the tolerant Left either. BLM and Antifa are already competing over the title of getting people killed because they simply don't like what they stand for. Yeah nothing wrong with that i'm sure. Cops getting killed because BLM fueled the hate for them. Who cares. Confederate flag home owners getting killed by black people just because of the flag. Who cares. White people getting killed in South Africa and getting their property seized. Who cares. Yeah the Alt-Right and people with torches are the real problem in america. Wow the Left really was itching for an enemy to fight. So i guess preaching unity,tolerance and peace was just bull# then? Gotcha.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
Forget it. I'm out of here.

So you came into the thread to boast about how awesome and intelligent you are, and now you're off?

Uhm, well, okay.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: amfirst1

The Governor was the actually man that caused the problems. He and his people bused in Antifa and BLM........

Do you have a source for your assertion?

Yes. Source please for this allegation.

Otherwise you're spreading pro-Nazi propaganda.

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: RomeByFire

Like i said you just spout nonsense that has nothing to do with allowing free speech. I'm sure you will not attack me in the future when i point out any attacks from the tolerant Left either. BLM and Antifa are already competing over the title of getting people killed because they simply don't like what they stand for. Yeah nothing wrong with that i'm sure. Cops getting killed because BLM fueled the hate for them. Who cares. Confederate flag home owners getting killed by black people just because of the flag. Who cares. White people getting killed in South Africa and getting their property seized. Who cares. Yeah the Alt-Right and people with torches are the real problem in america. Wow the Left really was itching for an enemy to fight. So i guess preaching unity,tolerance and peace was just bull# then? Gotcha.

Don't forget, yesterday was George Soros birthday!!!

This guy nails the psyop down fairly well.



ALL of these politicians are doing nothing more than posturing. The world is a stage and we are their puppets.

Jesus the amount of people who do not understand free speech is frightening...

As DB mentioned, they had every right to assemble, and the moment they or a counter protester broke the law, the police and national guard if needed should have swept in and arrested everyone involved with a crime.

This was handled badly by the authorities, and is being handled even worse by the people trying to paint folks that support free speech as nazi sympathizers is nuts.

I have no use for Neo-nazis, or their supporters but they have every right to assemble as any other american does.

a reply to: luthier

The problem goes deeper than that though. Groups of people are not simply homogenous blobs all thinking and wanting the exact same things or motivated by the same goals, they are made up of individuals, all with different experiences, thoughts and motivations.

What happens every time something like this occurs is that everyone gets lumped into two groups, all assigned the same motivation and, by proxy, the same ideals.
This is an incredibly damaging and unhelpful position to take, but one that plays out the same way every time and is reflected here in the same old comments and arguments from both sides: everyone who attended the rally was 'a Nazi' everyone who counter protested was an (anti) fascist, destroying free speech.

Instead, both groups were comprised of individuals, all with different life experiences, thoughts and ideals.

Maybe the guy with the flamethrower was a raging black supremacist and maybe the guy getting flamed (literally) went to the protest because he genuinely believed that taking down the statue was akin to what ISIS have been doing destroying historical monuments in the middle east?
Now, whether or not he is wrong in drawing that comparison is open to debate, however, seeing as he would be entitled to that point of view, protesting on this basis could be seen as an honourable thing to do could it not? And the guy with the flamer, we can all agree, is a violent, racist criminal who has no place in society.

Equally, perhaps the guy with the flamer was there to protest against the racist element that were present at the rally. Perhaps he had been attacked earlier by stick wielding maniacs and had improvised the flamer not to harm anyone but to deter people from getting close enough to attack him again. One could say that a) his intentions were honourable and b) he gets full marks for ingenuity in fashioning a weapon that would keep attackers beyond arms length.
The other guy then is a violent, racist criminal who has no place in society.

The issue here remains the inability of all sides to think as critically, and with as much passion, about their own ideas as they do about others', and the inability to respect other peoples right to their own ideas, and to counter with well constructed and coherent arguments.

The problem is: that each individual's perception of the world is 100% right from where they are standing. Everyone's opinion is equally valid, despite how unpalatable it may be.

Nothing can be achieved by blindly maintaining your position and simply repeating how right you are.

Things can only change once we try to understand the ideas of others and to see things from their point of view. Then we can learn to understand what is driving their opinions and construct decent arguments to try and persuade them to perhaps move a little.

And, I believe, "to move a LITTLE" is the key here.

We need to stop trying to force everyone to accept wholesale, the ideas, attitudes and opinions of one particular group or philosophy and instead strive to find a balance. A balance where all people are able to live, speak and think freely but where each person, in exercising their freedom, does not restrict the rights of others to the same.

a reply to: Irishhaf

It's funny.

When I supported BLM's right to free speech, I was anti-white.

When I support Nazi's right to free speech, I'm a white supremacist.


I wish people would make up their minds, it's causing hell on my wardrobe budget.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Irishhaf

It's funny.

When I supported BLM's right to free speech, I was anti-white.

When I support Nazi's right to free speech, I'm a white supremacist.


I wish people would make up their minds, it's causing hell on my wardrobe budget.

Maybe you and i should be marked with a symbol. Oh wait.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ketsuko

It paves the way for the thought police.

Exactly,

First they came for the white supremacists, and because I'm not one, I said nothing ...

Then they came for ...

We've seen this play out before.

Martin Niemöller would be rolling in his grave knowing you're using his famous quote to defend Nazis.

First they came ..." is a poem written by German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis' rise to power

Hmmm. Who he wrote the poem about sounds like a lot of people right here on ATS recently, trying to intellectualize support for these Nazis..

a reply to: Indrasweb

Not sure what it goes deeper than that means. I though is was clear from my writing I pretty much agree with everything you write here.

My problem is both sides are loving blaming each other because they have been manipulated to believe a political ideology is worth ignoring an opposing idea and making broadly generalized statements.