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Gov. McAuliffee: You Are not Welcome

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posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Perfectenemy

"Denying rights to groups that historically have denied rights to others simply makes you a part of a group that is denying rights to others."
-DBCowboy



Hypothetical question:

Would you support the rights of a pedophile group who convened to promote their pedophilia and remake the country in their own image?

Or would what they want be so morally wrong you couldn't see yourself standing with them?

I'm just curious where you draw the line.


Someone already beat you to it, only they used ISIS instead of pedophiles as an example.


Free speech is often a burden. It's not easy.

In our society we punish actions, not thought.

If we start punishing thought, we'll be in far more trouble than what we're currently facing.

To answer your question, everyone has a right to free speech. We cannot be a society where we start punishing thought.

Ever.

So is that a yes?


Unfortunately yes. HOWEVER, that does mean that they will be closely watched by the FBI, law enforcement and several investigation units... It might lead to the largest mass arrest in history




posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 11:56 AM
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Mcauliffe's speech was quite different here than the one he made about the left wing nut that shot up the republican baseball practice not too long ago. That was in Alexandria, VA and was carried out by someone from outside of VA. He tried to push gun control after that. It's disgusting that he is trying to use both of these events to push a political agenda. I guess that Alexandria shooting doesn't count anymore or other left wing acts of terror across country.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: pthena



Heather Heyer, 32 year old resident of Charlottesville, VA

was killed in a vehicular homicide by James Alex Fields Jr from Ohio a couple of blocks away after the police had cleared the area in which confrontations were occurring.



And it was a horrible act indeed. But would he have been there at all, if antifa and BLM were not there at the protest site? There was alot of voilence that happened that morning before this idiot decided to do what he did (he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law). However, what happend did not happen in a bubble. The whole day was full of ugliness on both sides. The police should of block out the anti-protesters or at least just keep them away on the other side of town. The conflict could have been minimized if not avoided all together.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Now you're just being an ass.

Reading comprehension troubles?

Yes.

The answer is yes.

Even pedophiles have a right to free speech.




Not trying to be an ass, your response was cryptic.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Now you're just being an ass.

Reading comprehension troubles?

Yes.

The answer is yes.

Even pedophiles have a right to free speech.




Not trying to be an ass, your response was cryptic.


No it was not. You just wanted to prove a point and make DB look stupid in the process. Your agenda is pretty clear to me. I don't like people who resort to this kind of trickery but hey whatever floats your boat.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: Lucidparadox

I agree on a lot of your points. However, the current tactics of dealing with this neo-Nazi movement, IMHO, is wrong headed and will back fire in the short term. The current trend of just shouting these idiots down, and trying to disrupt their free speech rights, will encourage more people to join their cause. One of the main reasons that Trump was elected was that he gave voice to many of the fears that average white Americans have. (As an aside, I did not vote for either major party candidate). White America has been told for quite some time that we will not be the majority in the near future. On the internet, advertising, and mass media, we are bombarded with images, ideas, and even languages that are unfamiliar to us and from which we instinctively recoil. We have been told that our ideas on marriage, sexuality, personal responsibility, drug use, etc. are not only wrong-headed but the alternative has been forced down our throats without a choice on our parts.

No one can deny that drastic social changes have occurred over the last decade. History will judge which changes were good and which weren't. Drastic change causes fear in those not wishing for change and fear causes reactionary defensive measures.

IMHO, instead of trying to out-protest and shout down the Nazis, they should be engaged in debate. Only then will the true idiocy of their historically inaccurate and ineffective theories come to light.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: underwerks
And their hate for the left.

Understand that I fully blame minorities and liberals for what happened in Charlottesville. They were the catalyst.


That's like lighting a house on fire and blaming the flames for burning it down.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: pthena



Heather Heyer, 32 year old resident of Charlottesville, VA

was killed in a vehicular homicide by James Alex Fields Jr from Ohio a couple of blocks away after the police had cleared the area in which confrontations were occurring.



And it was a horrible act indeed. But would he have been there at all, if antifa and BLM were not there at the protest site? There was alot of voilence that happened that morning before this idiot decided to do what he did (he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law). However, what happend did not happen in a bubble. The whole day was full of ugliness on both sides. The police should of block out the anti-protesters or at least just keep them away on the other side of town. The conflict could have been minimized if not avoided all together.


The sad thing is i predicted this since the riot in Berkeley. It was just inevitable and from here on out it will get much worse now. I'm blaming all sides equally on this one. Nobody will own up to it of course. To quote DB "People are #ing stupid".



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: joemoe


If the police kept them far apart none of this would of happened.


Heather Heyer, 32 year old resident of Charlottesville, VA

was killed in a vehicular homicide by James Alex Fields Jr from Ohio a couple of blocks away after the police had cleared the area in which confrontations were occurring.



why does a person living in ohio care about what statue a park in charlottesville has in it anyways??
I can see why a native of the city might care and thus to have a right to speak out with their opinion... but why does a resident of ohio have the right to freedom of speech over what is a local issue anyways??

just wanted to repost the picture of the cost of your freedom of speech!



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: joemoe


But would he have been there at all

He would not have been there if he had stayed in Ohio.

His mother said that he went to an alt-right rally. He was there for the rally. He killed a local resident.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Now you're just being an ass.

Reading comprehension troubles?

Yes.

The answer is yes.

Even pedophiles have a right to free speech.




Not trying to be an ass, your response was cryptic.


No it was not. You just wanted to prove a point and make DB look stupid in the process. Your agenda is pretty clear to me. I don't like people who resort to this kind of trickery but hey whatever floats your boat.

Should I repeat my post above? This isn't the mud pit. I'm more than willing to have a conversation with you, as long as it's having a conversation that you care about.

But I don't think that's the case.




posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Now you're just being an ass.

Reading comprehension troubles?

Yes.

The answer is yes.

Even pedophiles have a right to free speech.




Not trying to be an ass, your response was cryptic.


No it was not. You just wanted to prove a point and make DB look stupid in the process. Your agenda is pretty clear to me. I don't like people who resort to this kind of trickery but hey whatever floats your boat.

Should I repeat my post above? This isn't the mud pit. I'm more than willing to have a conversation with you, as long as it's having a conversation that you care about.

But I don't think that's the case.



Oh come on at least own up to your actions. Your motives to force a yes out of DB were pretty obvious.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: TobyFlenderson


IMHO, instead of trying to out-protest and shout down the Nazis, they should be engaged in debate. Only then will the true idiocy of their historically inaccurate and ineffective theories come to light.


Blood and Soil


Blood and Soil (German: Blut und Boden) refers to a racist ideology that focuses on ethnicity based on two factors, descent blood (of a folk) and territory. It celebrates the relationship of a people to the land they occupy and cultivate, and it places a high value on the virtues of rural living.
...
The doctrine not only called for a "back to the land" approach and re-adoption of rural values; it held that German land was bound, perhaps mystically, to German blood.

The ideology of Blood and Soil is completely out of place in America. We are all immigrants here. No humans evolved to become homo sapiens here. Coyotes evolved into coyotes here, but not humans. There is no sacred bond between the land and any race or ethnicity of humans stronger than any other race or ethnicity. That is the reality.

edit on 13-8-2017 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: Perfectenemy




Now what? I think you simply misunderstood me and others by saying we support Nazi rallys. I and others support their right of free speech to hold the rally but not the cause in general.


Yes!

Ideologues and activists have a tendency to muddy up the waters by mixing false assumptions in with other stuff. For instance, if you are against illegal immigration, then the ideologue activist will falsely assume you are against immigrants. We see it all the time and hear it in the media. They hone in on one or two words in a phrase and suddenly you are anti-immigrant because your belief is that immigration needs to be legal and controlled.

It gets exasperating dealing with these kinds of people. Terry McAuliffe is one of those people. His rant on immigration yesterday was weird, didn't you think?

If you don't want to hear what those people who had a permit to assemble had to say, stay home, don't listen.

The violence started when the ideologue activists showed up with their attempt to stifle another's right to spout their stuff.

But that's what ideologue activists do...they "activate". And that is when the violence started.. They incited the riot and now the backlash will only get worse. Some people fight back when they feel their rights aren't being given the same consideration as others.

It is heartbreaking that someone died during all this mayhem. At least Charlottesville did not get burned and vandalized and trashed, windows shattered, and businesses looted.


edit on 13-8-2017 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:22 PM
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Peoples attitudes on ATS lately go way past just making it known that the law allows for Nazis to have a rally. You yourself used a famous anti-Nazi quote in support of Nazis, as if we are all in danger if Nazis are prevented from spreading their hate.


Maybe it's because we find it disturbing that so many are justifying the wholesale curtailing of free speech because they don't like that speech?

For one thing, you are simply assuming that allowing these people to hold their rally will equate to a sudden rash of it spreading like wildfire across the nation and becoming a common thing.


I'm not talking about banning any type of speech. It just seems to me a lot of people are making excuses for the current Nazism because of their political leanings. And their hate for the left.


Is this any different than when people make excuses for ANTIFA or BLM? So it's likely just you. Either we all have freedom or none of us does.

Honestly, if those groups have every right to protest then so do Nazis. If the Satanists have every right to create and hold after school clubs, then Nazis have every right to march in rallies. This should not be complicated. Until and unless they start a widespread campaign to threaten private property and persons, they are no more or less odious than any of those other groups I mentioned.

I've been very clear. I don't like them or their message, but if they aren't allowed to hold legal protests just because people don't like them or their message and for no other good reason, then we've already lost an important principle of our society.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Now you're just being an ass.

Reading comprehension troubles?

Yes.

The answer is yes.

Even pedophiles have a right to free speech.




Not trying to be an ass, your response was cryptic.


No it was not. You just wanted to prove a point and make DB look stupid in the process. Your agenda is pretty clear to me. I don't like people who resort to this kind of trickery but hey whatever floats your boat.

Should I repeat my post above? This isn't the mud pit. I'm more than willing to have a conversation with you, as long as it's having a conversation that you care about.

But I don't think that's the case.



Oh come on at least own up to your actions. Your motives to force a yes out of DB were pretty obvious.

I was honestly expecting a longer, thought out response from DB, but I see I've struck a nerve. You assume everyone else is being confrontational because that's how you're acting to everyone who thinks differently than you do.

I couldn't care less about your politics or silly partisan games. Some of us want to actually think and have conversations that open up new possibilities in ideas. Crazy, right?

Like I said, I'm more than willing to have a conversation with you, but you have to let go of that giant chip on your shoulder. When a person goes after the player and not the ball, that just means they know nothing of the game.

Keep the personal BS in the mud pit. Everywhere else here is for sharing ideas like adults.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: pthena

I don't argue that point at all. My difference is on the issue of how to deal with it. You can't outlaw an idea. That only drives it into the shadows where it can fester, unchecked. We need to allow it to have a voice so that it can hang itself by its own idiotic logic and reasoning.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

Do you think you should be able to talk about pot legalization in a state that doesn't have it legalized?



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Now you're just being an ass.

Reading comprehension troubles?

Yes.

The answer is yes.

Even pedophiles have a right to free speech.




Not trying to be an ass, your response was cryptic.


No it was not. You just wanted to prove a point and make DB look stupid in the process. Your agenda is pretty clear to me. I don't like people who resort to this kind of trickery but hey whatever floats your boat.

Should I repeat my post above? This isn't the mud pit. I'm more than willing to have a conversation with you, as long as it's having a conversation that you care about.

But I don't think that's the case.



Oh come on at least own up to your actions. Your motives to force a yes out of DB were pretty obvious.

I was honestly expecting a longer, thought out response from DB, but I see I've struck a nerve. You assume everyone else is being confrontational because that's how you're acting to everyone who thinks differently than you do.

I couldn't care less about your politics or silly partisan games. Some of us want to actually think and have conversations that open up new possibilities in ideas. Crazy, right?

Like I said, I'm more than willing to have a conversation with you, but you have to let go of that giant chip on your shoulder. When a person goes after the player and not the ball, that just means they know nothing of the game.

Keep the personal BS in the mud pit. Everywhere else here is for sharing ideas like adults.


Quit playing the victim. You accused ATS members of being Nazi sympathizers and i pointed out that you're wrong. You just twisted the whole narrative by making analogies who don't even make sense like the one with the pedophelia bull#. Again i presented you a more fitting question but you didn't reply to that post geez i wonder why.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:41 PM
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White supremacy is vile and disgusting. The people exercising their rights are cowardly morons hiding behind the constitution they wish to destroy.

The answer to them rather than take away the right of free speech is to keep saying how vile, disgusting, and cowardly these savage monsters are with our free speech. It's to protest them peacefully if they come to your town. Make up giant puppets showing hideous creatures and make fun of them with witty little park theater presentations.

They want you to react violently and take away free speech. This is their goal. Their goal is not to exercise their free speech it is to incite violence for their cause.

Don't be fooled into playing. Protest their vile ideas with thought and peace and they will disolve.

Throw bottles at them and watch them grow. Watch your free speech get cotrolled.




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