Well ... I Guess the Chinese Want Some Too

a reply to: Snarl

China hopes the International Community has forgotten where sides were drawn during the Korean War. President Trump surely knows. Nikki Haley surely knows.

The guy you say "surely knows" didn't know that Hezbollah was a part of the Lebanese government. He didn't know that Israel was in the middle east. Don't count on him to know anything.

In that same vein, nuking china? Are you kidding? First, China has over 3 BILLION citizens. You want to nuke that many people? Are you a sociopath? Secondly, China is the worlds biggest training partner...because...3 BILLION citizens. Third, just because a newspaper says they're going to be neutral doesn't mean they will be. Xi Jinping is a bit more shrewd and in typical Asian fashion he is holding his cards close and low to the table. We don't know what he will do, but you can be assured he doesn't want his border contaminated with the possible fallout of millions of NK refugees or nuclear ash.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

But our MIC and political elites won't allow that with North Korea because it would reduce their weapons sales to countries in close proximity to North Korea

What , you actually think the MIC,Corporations, and politicians would put money ahead the well being of people. Thats crazy talk . /sarcasm

The middle-east is the Tony Starks of the worlds playground where they get to play with their toys without having to worry about liability and make lots of money .

NK and Irans role is to launder money and sell weapons .

unfortunately the bottom line is their is more money to be made with fear and chaos than logic and peace.

We need to redo our structure of incentives when it comes to War,Healthcare, and just about every other industry.

Hi all.

I'm in a unique position. An expat living in Southern China having previously lived in Guam for 7 years.

A couple of things that may have been corrected by some in the thread but TL;DR whole thread

- China has a large army and can muster an army twice the size of the US population

Correct, BUT they have no way to project that power, no air force, no naval force to move the troops they have now. Not to mention they probably couldn't ramp up their military that quickly or arm and train them.

- China is beholden to the US economy.

Correct and I'd add that doing anything to endanger your largest market for goods is very stupid. If the US taxed or trade embargoed China within 120 days the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) which runs the government would collapse. Quite simply factories run on 30-60 day order and payment windows here. They also run on very thin profit margins. If their orders fall, payroll won't be made, owners vanish leaving workers unpaid and angry, workers in China riot far MORE often than is reported (censored), they will turn their ire on the government quickly and have done so in the past. The CCP values social stability above all else, they do not want this to happen. Before anyone says Africa or Europe could absorb the goods, think again those are infinitesimal compared to the US market and factories need cash far more quickly than this could be arranged or happen.

- Guam has THAAD systems deployed on island.

Correct, confirmed by friends who live there and are in the military and federal government.

- There aren't enough US forces to mount a pre-emptive strike or counterattack.

Incorrect, do you know where all of our nuclear submarines are? I thought not. Classified.

Some other facts I'd offer for the discussion.

- Guam has nuclear weapons stored on the island, readily known fact.
- Guam has hosted stealth fighters and bombers in the past, probably still has them now.
- China is also forcing a near conflict with India in Bhutan, this would be the first true test of their military since Korea.
- India is also a nuclear power...

a reply to: interupt42

We need to redo our structure of incentives when it comes to War,Healthcare, and just about every other industry

I agree. But how do we do that? Central banking, for-profit healthcare, and the MIC are simply too powerful. As long as there are citizens who are willing to work for them, they'll never run out of pawns and cannon fodder. And that doesn't even include the citizens who don't even get paid from them yet still preach & promote their narratives.

Yes, let's go full retard & provoke China into Hulksmash mode, what with their much larger standing army and all those explosive toys of theirs. United States of Parking Lot would be all but assured after China calls up their buddies' armies (AND air forces & navies) to retaliate.

OP didn't think jack s# through on this one. America is NOT untouchable, nor invincible. Ego is going to be what makes us just a chapter in history books.

Be careful what you wish for... you might just get it.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I agree. But how do we do that?

Stop the un productive cycle that BOTH individual democrats and republicans have been on for centuries. Instead of fighting with each other ,blaming each other, gloating when the other fails we need to work together.

We need to Tell the corporate owned DNC,GOP,MSM to F off with their distractions and concentration on BS issues that are pointless trying to solve with a group of individuals riddled with conflict of interest.

Neither republicans or democrats are getting what they want only politicians and lobbyist are getting what they want. We need to put our political ideology differences to the side temporarily and work together on the following issues.


1. Congregational term limits

2. campaign financing reform.

3. Lobbying reform

4. doing away with super-pacs

5. Revolving door between gov't and private sector

6. Transparency

Once we minimize the conflict of interest in Congress,MSM,GOP, and the DNC peoples heads wont be spinning from all the BS nor chasing their tails with BS.

We need the truth and even the unconvenient truth when trying understand a problem in order to solve it. Today neither the Left or the Right or even the MSM is telling the people the truth. Instead they are telling the people what needs to be told to get the people to fall in line so they can appease the lobbyist and get their drafted regulations passed.

Once we can see clearly we can begin to really address the problems . Those 6 things listed above are things both the right and left can agree with and work together on.

Its also common sense that a group of people with conflict of interest is not the best group to get advice and information from.

Yet neither the GOP,DNC,and MSM focus on those six topics.

Instead The GOP,DNC, and MSM keep the people chasing their tails and distracting them from the fact that the issue with healtcare,foreign matters,SS,Social issues, etc was created by them and benefiting the lobbyist as expected by a group of people with conflict of interest.

As long as that conflict of interest is not focused on by the MSM,GOP,DNC nothing will get fixed , period. We will continue to talk about the same issues for infinity as we have already been doing.

So we need individual republicans and democrats to join forces and FORCE the MSM,DNC, and GOP peacefully to only focus on those 6 items or other items that help minimize conflict of interest.

We need to fix conflict of interest before any other issue is even discussed eitherwise its fruitless.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

This is why North Korea needs to be stopped. The entire country is a concentration camp.

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Snarl

Trump should obliterate China?!

You do realize that, if we "obliterated" NK and China preemptively, there would be coalitions formed against us? You think we can take on the world?

There's that saying. If you encountered one asshole today, then you encountered an asshole. If everybody you encountered today was an asshole, then you are the asshole.

If we have the world against us, we are the assholes.

You speak the truth!

There a lot of assholes around starting with the one in the white house

originally posted by: Nyiah
Yes, let's go full retard & provoke China into Hulksmash mode, what with their much larger standing army and all those explosive toys of theirs. United States of Parking Lot would be all but assured after China calls up their buddies' armies (AND air forces & navies) to retaliate.

OP didn't think jack s# through on this one. America is NOT untouchable, nor invincible. Ego is going to be what makes us just a chapter in history books.

China has a big army, yes.

But how do they get here? What boats does China have?

China can nuke us, but again, that causes all the attendant problems of China basically frying their own economy. No one in the world will buy enough of China's stuff to make up the difference. And, of course, China will still have to deal with the return stroke of being nuked.

At this stage China should be given a clear choice - continued trade and commercial development with the US or their relationship with NK... but not both. China is taking the piss and riding roughshod over the US - as it has been doing for years when dealing with weaklings like Obama.

This is all about hegemony in East Asia. The US government took the bait and we're losing badly as a result. China is winning bigly so far.

This is all about getting South Korea and Japan to pivot towards looking to China for regional leadership. If those two countries look to China for leadership rather than the US, the whole region will fall in line as well.

China is making us look like a bunch of crazy white people who don't give a damn about Korean lives, Japanese lives, or Asian lives. Kim's antics work entirely in their favor and they are probably telling him what to do. The message to the region is that the US doesn't give a damn whether you live or whether you burn in nuclear fire or plain old artillery fire. The message is that you can't count on the US to value the lives of your people.

If a new Korean war starts, even if we win, we lose. The Koreans will never forgive us. The Japanese will never forgive us.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Nyiah
Yes, let's go full retard & provoke China into Hulksmash mode, what with their much larger standing army and all those explosive toys of theirs. United States of Parking Lot would be all but assured after China calls up their buddies' armies (AND air forces & navies) to retaliate.

OP didn't think jack s# through on this one. America is NOT untouchable, nor invincible. Ego is going to be what makes us just a chapter in history books.

China has a big army, yes.

But how do they get here? What boats does China have?

China can nuke us, but again, that causes all the attendant problems of China basically frying their own economy. No one in the world will buy enough of China's stuff to make up the difference. And, of course, China will still have to deal with the return stroke of being nuked.

China would not nuke the US - remember that any strike by them is a decision to end their civilisation. They may as well blow themselves up.

If the US strike NK there is not a thing that China can do about it.

a reply to: Snarl

As a real warhawk you make it sound like Nk, the US and China are the only players. Remember World Wars? Domino effects?

Allies and Axis powers? This doesn't just effect the three-this means all countries start lining u with their friends-it's all out war. Millions of human souls. This is not a game-this is real people-real lives. NK should have been taken care of in the 50s-have to live with our mistakes without exacerbating and responding to idiot rulers and their friends-do what needs to be done but smart.

We no longer need boots on the ground. We can survive this a lot smart than letting our military strategize for us anymore.

a reply to: 11andrew34

And if North Korea nukes someone?

What then?

a reply to: Nyiah

And China's buddies are who? Russia? They don't have the capability to project troops, enough ships or planes to attack the US and certainly not enough to cart China's troops to the US.

Their others buddies are who? NK? They have 3 frigates, 3. Their air force is primary composed of air-to-air fighters, not troop transports.

And I doubt China will do much of anything, I live here. They talk big but ultimately back down when someone bigger comes along. Been there, done that enough to know.

The war would be nuclear very quickly IF China/Russia become involved. Don't see it happening, self interest and all.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: 11andrew34

And if North Korea nukes someone?

What then?

They work for China, so they won't. Anyone who believes NK is as crazy as they act is a fool. China still tells them what to do; nothing has changed. China is winning bigly.

Remember, North Korea owes their entire existence to the Chinese military and the CIA. Chinese forces created North Korea after the US led UN coalition was practically all the way to the Chinese border. But the CIA made it all possible. The CIA betrayed the US military and the UN coalition forces. They lied that the Chinese were not massing for an invasion of Korea, and they were still lying that it wasn't going to happen when the Chinese had begun attacking. The takeaway is that the US does not always act in its own interests; it's a vulnerable thing and it has always been so.

This is all about China winning the long game. If they have North Korea nuke someone, all they do is set off WWIII and nobody wins. They want to be the Middle Kingdom, hegemon of East Asia.

If there is an actual new Korean war, the US loses even if it wins. If there is a confrontation, even if it doesn't come to war, we lose the confidence of East Asia. It has been that way for decades and decades.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Stop basing judgements of the US economic strength on universal healthcare. This country doesn't have universal healthcare for a number of reasons, none of which are economic weakness. Control, Kept Voter pandering, an overall spitefulless towards the idea by the majority of Americans, and the fact that there's more money to be made under non-universal systems all play a role there.

China doesn't even like NK. In fact, their population often mixes with SK and vice versa. The reason China semi supports NK is because they are a barrier between US backed SK. It s far more complicated than that, but back during the Korean war that was their primary motivation.


As far as the missiles they send up weekly we should use them as target practice as soon as they cross into international waters that will cause a little heat, but shouldn't create a all out war.