Well ... I Guess the Chinese Want Some Too

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: modified device

we have them ringed with THAAD,Patriots and can very likely hack their first gen guidance systems,so yes they get that move and when it fails.

Excellent point. But if we strike down their missiles it is an act of war none the less.

Not if they violate our airspace un invited with weapons. Japan has said it might strike at the missiles if they cross their airspace i think.

I am pretty sure if they violate our air space with missiles, it is an act of war, by them. So the premises is still relevant.

Haven't we flown bombers over them?

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Snarl
There's no doubt what is about to occur won't be remembered as war. There aren't going to be two armies meeting on the battlefield and spilling blood.

What's going to happen is going to be sudden. The North Korean Military's ability to threaten Seoul with conventional weapons shelling is going to disappear. The North Korean's ability to launch a ballistic missile ... gone. The amount of destruction this requires ... merely a footnote in the pages of history.

The fun part comes out of China's state run news agency: Global Times. They put China's strategy out as: If North Korea strikes first - We'll do nothing. But, if the US puts down the threat (like one would a rabid dog) - Then they'll retaliate against America.

Chinese paper says China should stay neutral if North Korea attacks first
"It needs to make clear its stance to all sides and make them understand that when their actions jeopardize China's interests, China will respond with a firm hand," said the paper, which does not represent government policy.

China hopes the International Community has forgotten where sides were drawn during the Korean War. President Trump surely knows. Nikki Haley surely knows.

The Chinese are the bad guys here and President Trump would do well to obliterate them along with the North Koreans. And I believe there's no other reason President Trump and his cabinet have waited this long. There's a legal war President Trump can Finish. If he does it right, not a single allied entity has to lose their life. If you're in China and you're reading this ... get out as fast as you can. Congress is in Recess and President Trump can do anything he damn well pleases where the Korean War is concerned.

Ain't no Iraq or Libya son...

I agree we don't want a war with China, but let's be real, the U.S. has basically been playing patty-cake in the middle east. Drone Operators couldn't even strike a target until they got clearance from D.C. Lawyers, that isn't war, it's politics. If the US military was actually allowed to be unleashed, things would have gone much differently in the ME, not to mention Vietnam. To paraphrase Reagan, we shouldn't send our troops into war unless we are prepared to do what is necessary to win. If we do what is necessary, NK would be defeated relatively quickly by the US and it's allies.

I'll agree with you there. We never went full mobilization in Vietnam or the ME.

But still, China would be a beast. It's got over a billion people, and a reasonably strong and large army. The country is also one of the bigger ones globally. It's just not as powerful or as technologically advanced. As I said, we'd ultimately win.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: 3daysgone

So we should obliterate a country with 25 million people and let the radioactive fallout kill countless millions more just in South Korea alone, all because we're in a glorified pissing contest? Oh and if another country that houses a good 6th of the world's entire population has a problem with it, we should kill them all too?

Yes, that's extremism.

Oh, less extreme than that.

When Lil' Kim shoots off his nuclear wad, we shoot it down and then both Lil' Kim and China accuse us of a "first strike" even if we provide proof Lil' Kim fired off actual nukes.

Then they can feel justified in doing whatever they want ... like shelling Seoul. Even if it's not nukes, they'll claim we struck first, even if that's not true.

Maybe NK, but China isn't that insane.. They really don't want a conflict. In reality, having lived in China, I can say it's a fairly traditional and conservative society even to this day.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
It was the North that invaded the South that started the Korean war. They did it because Truman moved our powerful fleet to protect the rightful Democratic government of China in exile on Taiwan. NK always has been and always will be a puppet of Communist China.

Why does Kim threaten Guam when he can easily threaten the West Coast, or anywhere in the mainland States, or even Hawaii or Alaska?

It is because Guam is the US Military's center of power in the pacific that China wants removed. China has negotiated its way into making island bases all over the place by putting a dime in the Kim jukebox over and over again. NK is just a tool in China's expansionist policy.

Trump is putting an end to it.

Can anyone imagine how fast Hillary would be vacating Guam after China's recent dime in the NK jukebox? China would be overfilling the Clinton Foundation coffers for her expedient departure.

You do understand Guam is an 1/8th the distance as the west coast? We have a few more ahemmm...defense satelites and such protecting this area? It's a forward command. That is why it's threatened by ancient weapons.

Yes and China does not want it there, which is what I said.
Kim just tested a bunch showing he can hit the mainland, now he switches to Guam. Obviously doing China's bidding. If he wanted to create maximum anxiety he would announce targeting a population center not Guam.

China probably thought they were creating a bargaining piece with these actions to counter Trump getting tough on trade. Without a Clinton to bribe in sight, they drag out their despot and order him to perform.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Kim tested what?

Uh no. He blasted some garbage in the ocean we tracked to get even better Intel.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Kim tested what?

Uh no. He blasted some garbage in the ocean we tracked to get even better Intel.

ICBM's, shot way up yonder into space where we calculated an achievable trajectory that they are now capable of.

Watch for when they sneak in real news tidbits in between the barrage of fake Russia crap.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Yeah I get it. I just think your over selling the capability of their toys vs defenses of even moderate nations.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Yeah I get it. I just think your over selling the capability of their toys vs defenses of even moderate nations.

Oh, Obama made sure we don't have adequate layers of missile defense. It was his part in caving in to China's various dimes in the NK jukebox.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Not over them. Over South Korea. And only after they have threatened.

a reply to: Abysha

What makes you think we don't already?

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Yeah I get it. I just think your over selling the capability of their toys vs defenses of even moderate nations.

Oh, Obama made sure we don't have adequate layers of missile defense. It was his part in caving in to China's various dimes in the NK jukebox.

Right.


Hmmm..maybe the stuff in the news isn't the actual defense system? Obama had a pacific forward military. He literally moved assets towards the Pacific from the ME.

a reply to: 3daysgone

Yeah war is hell. War is the worst thing that happens to this world.

Yet people here are casually throwing it around like it's an effin video game. That's why I keep saying that I have no intentions of stopping suicidal fools from committing suicide. I think the world would be a lot better off if all of the warmongers got together in a room and just fought it out among themselves. But there's no need to take everyone else down just because of their own arrogance, belligerence, stupidity, etc.

Knowing that will not stop it though.

Starting wars won't stop them either.

Would you just do nothing while North Korea bombs people with nukes?

Who are they bombing with nukes? Who have they ever bombed with nukes? Anyone who knows anything about the Korean situation knows what's really going on militarily. The metropolitan area of Seoul, South Korea has roughly half of South Korea's population. It's also located some 30 or so miles from the North Korean border. North Korea has thousands upon thousands of weapons aimed at Seoul and 10s of thousands of troops ready to try invading Seoul. The US military has at least one base in Seoul.

So even if we were to attack North Korea, there's no way we'd be able to prevent a massive bombardment of Seoul & possibly a massive invasion. And the nuclear fallout would be guaranteed to reach China and South Korea in the least. North Korea also shares a border with Russia. On top of that, the Korean people consider themselves one people with their families split among the borders. The resulting casualties would easily number in the millions and no one would "win".

If you would, what would you do when they came for you?

LOL How? The only people I worry about "coming for me" are police right here. North Koreans have never harassed me, called me racial slurs, vandalized my Dad's mosque, tried to take away my voting rights, etc. Your hypothetical won't have the desired effect because it's not even realistic. What, are there scary North Koreans under my bed now? lol

Edited to add that doing nothing sometimes is extreme also.

And up is down, down is up, love is hate, war is peace, and death is life. Anyone can twist words to try to make a point. But that doesn't change the fact that these fools calling for nuclear war are by far the true extremists.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Not over them. Over South Korea. And only after they have threatened.

Either way, you started by saying if they violate airspace its an act of war.


We've been at war with them since the fifties.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Very true.

originally posted by: modified device
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Trumps not stupid,if I,a lowly wage slave, see this for what it is then the Donald knows what this was,during a press conference this very evening he stated he had great respect for China,for the sanctions but he said it twice which means he knows. The Balls in Kims court,let's hope he makes a good shot and doesn't drop the ball and get his country burned down around him,it does seem that in Empires the third emperor is a frakin loon,Kim is showing shades of Caligula.

From what I recall, Lil Kims daddy and grandpa were loons too. I would not go as far to say that Trump is not stupid however it does seem that someone in his circle is pointing out how international relations work.

But this statement by China leads me to another thought. I read a short while ago that kiddie kim is due to visit Iran in a short while. It would not be the first time that an endangered ''leader''just happened to be out of the country when the military coop takes place. No proof, just speculation on possibilities.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Very true.

Thank you. It's not about me or you being wrong or right. It's about us understanding where we're at as a country based off of foreign policy past and present.

All of our enemies now are a manifestation of our projection of power post WWII. It's a hemorrhaging of American lives and tax dollars from our status of self proclaimed global police status.

If you're a Democrat, this is the worst use of corporate influence to sway government policy.

If you're a Republican this is blatant big government blowing tax payer dollars.

I ask everyone who reads this, what country post WWII has benefited or experienced more "freedom" through our intervention?

Who exactly has benefited from our foreign policy aside from the military industrial complex?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yet people here are casually throwing it around like it's an effin video game. That's why I keep saying that I have no intentions of stopping suicidal fools from committing suicide. I think the world would be a lot better off if all of the warmongers got together in a room and just fought it out among themselves. But there's no need to take everyone else down just because of their own arrogance, belligerence, stupidity, etc.

People are throwing it around because right now it is a very plausible scenario. I know it is a scenario that none of us like, but it still realistic and needs to be talked about whether we disagree with it or not. To put you head in the sand and act like nothing is happening is foolish to the extreme.

Who are they bombing with nukes? Who have they ever bombed with nukes? Anyone who knows anything about the Korean situation knows what's really going on militarily. The metropolitan area of Seoul, South Korea has roughly half of South Korea's population. It's also located some 30 or so miles from the North Korean border. North Korea has thousands upon thousands of weapons aimed at Seoul and 10s of thousands of troops ready to try invading Seoul. The US military has at least one base in Seoul. So even if we were to attack North Korea, there's no way we'd be able to prevent a massive bombardment of Seoul & possibly a massive invasion. And the nuclear fallout would be guaranteed to reach China and South Korea in the least. North Korea also shares a border with Russia. On top of that, the Korean people consider themselves one people with their families split among the borders. The resulting casualties would easily number in the millions and no one would "win".

They threatened to bomb Guam with nukes. Did you miss that part? Or is that just okay with you?

LOL How? The only people I worry about "coming for me" are police right here. North Koreans have never harassed me, called me racial slurs, vandalized my Dad's mosque, tried to take away my voting rights, etc. Your hypothetical won't have the desired effect because it's not even realistic. What, are there scary North Koreans under my bed now? lol

So to threaten the country you live in is not a threat to you? Really? Sounds like you would love to live in North Korea, where you would not be bullied about your religion. Oh wait, you would be killed for believing in that religion. Yeah that sounds much better than America.

And up is down, down is up, love is hate, war is peace, and death is life. Anyone can twist words to try to make a point. But that doesn't change the fact that these fools calling for nuclear war are by far the true extremists.

Yeah. Lil' Kim is definitely threatening nuclear war, but somehow it is America's fault for wanting to stop them. A very extreme point of view if I say so myself.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I ask everyone who reads this, what country post WWII has benefited or experienced more "freedom" through our intervention?

South Korea and South Vietnam come to mind. Israel also benefited from it. That is a good question that needs to be fully explored.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: CriticalStinker

I ask everyone who reads this, what country post WWII has benefited or experienced more "freedom" through our intervention?

South Korea and South Vietnam come to mind. Israel also benefited from it. That is a good question that needs to be fully explored.

South Korea I'll agree with. Vietnam fixed itself, as we didn't win the angle on that war we wanted to. It kind of failed on its own after and became an ally.

As for Israel, we can agree they as a nation benefited and are greatful. The follow up question is are they conducive to the region, and do they represent our sense of ideology (as citizens, not a government)?

They escaped ethnic cleansing only to project and perfect the act there of.