Well ... I Guess the Chinese Want Some Too

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: CriticalStinker

I ask everyone who reads this, what country post WWII has benefited or experienced more "freedom" through our intervention?

South Korea and South Vietnam come to mind. Israel also benefited from it. That is a good question that needs to be fully explored.

South Korea I'll agree with. Vietnam fixed itself, as we didn't win the angle on that war we wanted to. It kind of failed on its own after and became an ally.

As for Israel, we can agree they as a nation benefited and are greatful. The follow up question is are they conducive to the region, and do they represent our sense of ideology (as citizens, not a government)?

They escaped ethnic cleansing only to project and perfect the act there of.

I think that is where different cultures interacting is not entirely conducive anywhere in the world. People don't get along with people who don't want to get along.

a reply to: 3daysgone

Fair statement. But if that's what you believe, than we cannot project our will on other cultures. And that goes back to my previous point, our enemies are a manifestation of our current and past foreign policies.

While you may agree with the scope and angle, they're influencing our current situation.

I think China may have overplayed their hand here. First of all, they are really strong arming the US as their terms effectively deny the right to use a pre-emptive strike.

Don't think other nation's diplomats don't see that.

The US might have a legitimate concern with China now, militarily, and publicly that concern could be well heard from other allies of the US.


I think China was stupid to say it this way.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: 3daysgone

Fair statement. But if that's what you believe, than we cannot project our will on other cultures. And that goes back to my previous point, our enemies are a manifestation of our current and past foreign policies.

While you may agree with the scope and angle, they're influencing our current situation.

I agree with that 100%. Threatening to nuke a U.S. military base would easily influence our train of thought.

originally posted by: 3daysgone

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: 3daysgone

Fair statement. But if that's what you believe, than we cannot project our will on other cultures. And that goes back to my previous point, our enemies are a manifestation of our current and past foreign policies.

While you may agree with the scope and angle, they're influencing our current situation.

I agree with that 100%. Threatening to nuke a U.S. military base would easily influence our train of thought.

A response to a response doesn't mean you're not the aggressor.

I think we agreed on something but you're trying to paint the picture we are a unwarranted victim here.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't treat any threat seriously and respond accordingly. However, I think we should be introspective and evaluate how suddenly all of our enemies are a result of failed policies in the past.

Let's be honest with ourselves, a true patriot doesn't Rah Rah Rah all the time. A true patriot asks how we can improve our house and our neighbors.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I agree with that also, but North Korea has given us a deadline with their threat. I am not saying that striking first is the best solution, but I do think it requires a great deal of risk assessment of this situation, which i am sure the military is doing as we speak.

a reply to: 3daysgone

We could be creative, drones in the area with strike capability on the missile sites.

Their whole program is vulnerable, designated launch sites with liquid fuel they have to prepare before launch.

This situation is being addressed by the media and public as a formidable adversary. The very nature of that implication negates any nation pride or sense of our capabilities.

This is an unstable third world country we're talking about.

We can't act fearful as if this is some Russian equivalent from the cold war Era. Fear is what gets this nation into trouble with out military.

The OP is overreacting to china imo. They have a fairly reasonable position on this, though it doesnt make it easy for us.

If anything, they leaned slightly in favor of the US. If Kim launches missiles towards Guam, they will look the other way while we "retalliate".

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Kim threatened to blow up Austin a few years ago. Thats pretty aggro.

originally posted by: pirhanna
The OP is overreacting to china imo. They have a fairly reasonable position on this, though it doesnt make it easy for us.

If anything, they leaned slightly in favor of the US. If Kim launches missiles towards Guam, they will look the other way while we "retalliate".

We're not a liberal democracy if we cannot emphasize with other countries geopolitical views.

China absolutely has an angle here, acting like they're unjustified is undercutting our stance.

originally posted by: pirhanna
a reply to: CriticalStinker

Kim threatened to blow up Austin a few years ago. Thats pretty aggro.

Good point, America has been operating on a stance of isolationism, and we're truly victims.

We've only had good intentions and defended ourselves....

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Isn't the Chinese media frequently caught making empty claims on behalf of the government?

China does not have a real media as it is so tightly controlled and censored. Chinese media (like Russia's) is just an extension of government.

There's a lot of brinkmanship going on here. The main thing China needs to do is control their puppet, but we know they lost control some time ago. If North Korea carry out their threat to fire stuff at Guam then they may need to suffer the consequences. That said, I don't think the US is about to flatten North Korea.

a reply to: paraphi

China does not have a real media as it is so tightly controlled and censored. Chinese media (like Russia's) is just an extension of government.

As opposed to what?

MSM in the US is comparable to China and Russia.

I'm sure you bitch like we all do with how watered down news is. Don't be so quick go hate the game if everyone is willing to play by the same rules.

a reply to: Snarl


I am just going to put my two cents in here. What makes any of you think this will stay limited to just the US and N Korea? Once missiles start flying around, you may see a bunch of conflicts erupt. Between China and India, for example (the past couple days the rhetoric has heated up between them). Russia might decide that the US is distracted enough to make a move on NATO. The Iranians might decide to hit Israel, or vice versa. A country could sucker punch the US and blame it on N Korea. The big danger is not simply a war between the US an N Korea, its whether or not that will start a chain reaction that could escalate into something global. Everyone thinks we will just lob some missiles over and destroy Kim and its over, that may not be at all what happens. We are living in the most dangerous situation ever. The US hindered by war with probable damage on its own soil,will change the whole global power structure at a time when several states are flexing projection of power aggressively. That's a real unknown quantity and we have no idea how it will play out, IMHO not well. Hopefully reason will prevail over insanity and ego dueling.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Laughing at the millions of dead who had no say in their goverments decision is distasteful to say in the least. Don't mistake Americans would be on that list, though I fail to see where you empathy (if any) starts or ends.

Truly sad, the lack of empathy towards the suffering of millions.

lol obliterate China.

Gotta love American bravado. The friggin Chinese have enough people that they could build a human bridge to America while the others walk over it and take over your country in a week.

They could also just start calling in your debt.

You're dealing with people who plan decades in advance, your best hope is a tubby impulsive retard with no self control and small hands. Good luck with that.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
MSM in the US is comparable to China and Russia.

Travel broadens the mind. You need to travel. The censorship and control in China is not comparable to MSN. Not even close.

a reply to: TruMcCarthy

Russia has thousands of nukes, NK maybe 10,

Well you must know more than the Intell Community...LOL

www.bbc.com...

Has North Korea got the bomb?
Technically yes - North Korea has conducted several tests with nuclear bombs. However, in order to launch a nuclear attack on its neighbours, it needs to be able to make a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on to a missile. While North Korea claims it has successfully "miniaturised" nuclear warheads, international experts have long cast doubt on these claims. Yet according to information leaked to the Washington Post in August 2017, US intelligence officials now do believe North Korea is capable of miniaturisation.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

From the link of the OPS

The widely read state-run Global Times, published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily, wrote in an editorial that Beijing is not able to persuade either Washington or Pyongyang to back down.

"It needs to make clear its stance to all sides and make them understand that when their actions jeopardize China's interests, China will respond with a firm hand,"said the paper, which does not represent government policy.

The above is a bit ambiguous, but I take that to mean that China as you have suggested doesn't want Beijing to disappear

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
MSM in the US is comparable to China and Russia.

Travel broadens the mind. You need to travel. The censorship and control in China is not comparable to MSN. Not even close.

Thank you for your advice. I'm flattered you think I don't understand other cultures.

Every country has their own propaganda. If we're debating on ATS, I think it's a given that we're all duped for the end game...