Absolute Proof Jesus Christ is God

a reply to: mytquin

Hebrews 1:8:

RS reads: “Of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.’” (KJ, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, NAB have similar renderings.) However, NW reads: “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever.’” (AT, Mo, TC, By convey the same idea.)

Which rendering is harmonious with the context? The preceding verses say that God is speaking, not that he is being addressed; and the following verse uses the expression “God, thy God,” showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God. Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God. Rather, Psalm 45:6, in RS, reads “Your divine throne.” (NE says, “Your throne is like God’s throne.” JP [verse 7]: “Thy throne given of God.”) Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon Jehovah’s throne.” (1 Chron. 29:23, NW) In harmony with the fact that God is the “throne,” or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship, Daniel 7:13, 14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on him.

Hebrews 1:8, 9 quotes from Psalm 45:6, 7, concerning which the Bible scholar B. F. Westcott states: “The LXX. admits of two renderings: [ho the·osʹ] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (Thy throne, O God, . . . therefore, O God, Thy God . . . ) or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case (God is Thy throne, or Thy throne is God . . . ), and in apposition to [ho the·osʹ sou] in the second case (Therefore God, even Thy God . . . ). . . . It is scarcely possible that [’Elo·himʹ] in the original can be addressed to the king. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho the·osʹ] is a vocative in the LXX. Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.’”—The Epistle to the Hebrews (London, 1889), pp. 25, 26.

Source: Trinity: Reasoning

The 2nd video (or 2nd part) in my first comment in this thread also addresses Hebrews 1:8 shortly (as does the text above it indirectly). It's even in the screencapture of that video. The first part and the text above it has all the clues why Jesus is addressed the way he is in the bible (including Isaiah 9:6 where he is referred to as "Mighty God" for example, as well as John 1:1 and all other occurances where similar terminology is used to describe Jesus). Perhaps you missed that or it's likewise not getting through. What is mentioned in the text about the meaning and different applications the bible uses for the words that have been translated to "God" or "god(s)" explains all instances in the bible where Jesus is referred to as "a god" and "Mighty God" (see also definition nr. 8 or definition 4, which also applies to Jesus; first video).

And before anyone feels like going there...

Why does Hebrews 1:10-12 quote Psalm 102:25-27 and apply it to the Son, when the psalm says that it is addressed to God? Because the Son is the one through whom God performed the creative works there described by the psalmist. (See Colossians 1:15, 16; Proverbs 8:22, 27-30.) It should be observed in Hebrews 1:5b that a quotation is made from 2 Samuel 7:14 and applied to the Son of God. Although that text had its first application to Solomon, the later application of it to Jesus Christ does not mean that Solomon and Jesus are the same. Jesus is “greater than Solomon” and carries out a work foreshadowed by Solomon.—Luke 11:31.

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

You really are something else aren't you? Would you like my version of your little party book?

Mary and Joseph were a nice young couple. Mary's came from a very affluent family whereas Joseph was a common carpenter. After getting up the duff by Joseph and telling her father, he got irate and incredibly embarrassed that his daughter should basically shag around before wedlock!
So anyway, knowing that her belly would soon be on show for all to see, Mary's father thought up the best way to avoid bringing shame on the family..... It was God!!!
All the simple folk believed it, people treated the child differently and the Romans were having none of it!

I truly believe that Christianity stems from a father's embarrassment that his daughter was a hussy, a harlot and a whore!

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

I am not an atheist but I feel it's fair that I contribute here. Absolute proof Jesus Christ is god? I see none whatsoever. Zilch. I've seen no proof anywhere that Jesus even existed as the character portrayed in the bible. There may have been no historical Jesus at all. There is a lot of evidence suggesting this character did not exist. There are some great books out there by Acharya S such as Christ in Egypt, Did Moses Exist?, Who was Jesus?.. They are compelling books. I don't view the bible as proof of anything. I don't doubt there are some historical events covered in the bible that happened. I see no proof of the existence of the bible character Jesus.

Doesn't take an atheist to have no faith. Either there is proof it is, proof it isn't, or it's absolute is unknown. If it's not proven you can lean one way or the other, and that's called an opinion. Is there proof he didn't exist? No. Based on compelling evidence I strongly lean towards, at the very least, his bible character's non existence. That is my opinion.

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

I don't think this thread went how OP would have hoped. He seems to have disappeared since page 2.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I don't think this thread went how OP would have hoped. He seems to have disappeared since page 2.

Probably since he couldn't get a rise out of the membership since we've seen so many other boring threads like his before.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yep. I warned him in his welcome thread. Not surprised that this thread went down the way it did.

The intelligence level of the ATS community is higher than most forums, I am surprised how many have come out and said Jesus is not God. If your a Christian and you really do believe that, you have leveled up on understanding the real truth of the bible. And it's important too because.....

John 4:24

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

For those Christians that cling to that false dogma....
Romans 10:2

For I can testify that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not in line with the truth.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Yep. I warned him in his welcome thread. Not surprised that this thread went down the way it did.

The arrogance and the naiveté of the religiously indoctrinated.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

He didn't say anything about him "being the Word". So no, I asked the correct question & stated it exactly as I meant it. Also, your view is only one of Christianity's views on him. Some don't believe he is the Word at all and don't preach anything like that.

I don't believe you understand what I actually am saying. You are correct in that the OP said Jesus was God but what I have actually said is that, I as a a disciple of the Nazarene's, refute his belief that Jesus was God. It is not said or taught by any Apostle or true disciple of Jesus. Even though he/she claims or states a belief does not make it true. There are many people who claim Jesus was God or a god who are not Christian at all. What I am saying is that the terrestrial Jesus has never been The Most High Ell. and that the first congregation of the Jesus movement of James has never made that claim.

Jesus was never tried for claiming to be God and has never said that He was God. Anyone can believe they way they want but that does not make it so.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

An open forum is an open forum and being so gives me as much right to express my theology as it does yours. Your purpose was to deny the deity of Jesus and you well know it. You simply took a spin in doing so. You based your spin on the premise that claimed He was the Most High EL which totally wrong and not in the MSS of Christianity.

originally posted by: Mogzy1977

I truly believe that Christianity stems from a father's embarrassment that his daughter was a hussy, a harlot and a whore!

Regardless of christianity as a religion, regardless of the historic evidence of Jesuc Christ's existence or lack thereof, regardless of Mary's "immaculate conception" or lack thereof, you sir, are an absolute idiot.

To talk that way of any woman, not to mention the most revered woman in the history of mankind, speaks volumes of your poor moral fibre and education.

Pray to whatever metaphysical entity you believe in, or to chance if you are an atheist, that you never have a daughter, for the universe has ways to making us eat our words.

Shame on you.

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist
I can't see how you proved Jesus Christ to be the son of God. You listed articles of your FAITH and called it FACT. Calling something a fact doesn't make it so.

a reply to: RadioKnecht

No no no! I do not think like that of women, not in the slightest. That is how I imagined the story to be is all. Please do not put words into my mouth when you know nothing of me personally! My sister was 17 and gave birth to my niece and I have nothing but admiration for the way she single handedly raised the girl for almost ten years before marrying. That young girl is also my best friend.

No apology needed as the only idiot here is you for not really understanding my post. And your lack of understanding of said post and your personal attack says more about you than my post does about me.

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

Please provide some actual proof.
Using conjecture to support your claims will indubitably not corroborate your post.

Welcome to ATS

Out of all the Gods, Jesus has to be the most influential in history, hell they even made a certain point in time being as a post of sorts for recorded history.

However, I do believe that Jesus is really an amalgamation of various cultures and beleifs regardless of it cultural undertones. Some qauilties and even character istics that Jesus has are parallel to other cultures. Jesus is actually very rich when it comes to esoterics and lore.

He really might as well be the Gods of God's, because he based off all them. The popular ones anyways.

a reply to: Seede

I don't believe you understand what I actually am saying. You are correct in that the OP said Jesus was God but what I have actually said is that, I as a a disciple of the Nazarene's, refute his belief that Jesus was God. It is not said or taught by any Apostle or true disciple of Jesus. Even though he/she claims or states a belief does not make it true. There are many people who claim Jesus was God or a god who are not Christian at all. What I am saying is that the terrestrial Jesus has never been The Most High Ell. and that the first congregation of the Jesus movement of James has never made that claim.

Then you should've addressed that to the OP, not me. I'm not the one saying he is God. I asked the OP that if he believes the Prophet Jesus is God, then does that mean he did all of the other things that are attributed to God in the scriptures? You took that and ran with it.

An open forum is an open forum and being so gives me as much right to express my theology as it does yours. Your purpose was to deny the deity of Jesus and you well know it. You simply took a spin in doing so. You based your spin on the premise that claimed He was the Most High EL which totally wrong and not in the MSS of Christianity.

You definitely have the right to comment how you like, just as I do. But that doesn't change the fact that you took what I was saying and ran with it in a different direction from what both the OP and I were talking about. I personally don't believe in or even care about the argument that he may or may not be "The Word". But that's not what's being talked about in the OP, so apparently he/she doesn't care about that either.

And no, I didn't "base my spin on the premise that claimed He was the Most High EL". If anything, I "based my spin" on the original poster/OP claiming that Jesus is God. If Jesus is God as the OP claims, then who is the God who did all of the other things in the Scriptures? It's a simply question which the OP still hasn't answered yet. No offense, but you can't answer that for him/her, hence my responses.

So to summarize:
1. OP says "Jesus is God and here's proof"

2. I respond to OP by saying "If he's God then he did the other stuff attributed to God in the Scriptures?"

3. You responded to me by saying "No he's not, but what you should've asked is this, this, and that about the Word"

4. I look at you like "Huh? I asked exactly what I wanted to ask and it was a question for the OP. You're coming at me for not asking the OP a question about something that the OP didn't even mention?"

a reply to: StandingTallForChrist

This is only proof that you are either dim or dastardly. Only the dim would make such arrogant claims and believe them, and only the arrogant would make such dim remarks and find them clever.

a reply to: spacemanjupiter

You are wrong, look in the page before this one, I posted an excerpt of one of several historians, in this case a pagan Roman historian, that corroborates the fact that Jesus Christ did exist...

For crying out loud people, the motto of ATS is "[deny ignorance"... It is not "embrace ignorance"...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Are you referring Tacitus? Tacitus doesn't not prove that Jesus of Nazareth ever existed.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It wasn't political enough and it did not use the "Trump" word with enough frequency. Successful threads use the word "Trump" over and over again.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: spacemanjupiter

You are wrong, look in the page before this one, I posted an excerpt of one of several historians, in this case a pagan Roman historian, that corroborates the fact that Jesus Christ did exist...

For crying out loud people, the motto of ATS is "[deny ignorance"... It is not "embrace ignorance"...

According to the book Caesar's Massaih the Gospel was fabricated: "New Testament Gospels were written as wartime propaganda by scholars connected to the Roman imperial court of the Flavian emperors"

en.wikipedia.org...

I read the book. Atwill makes a very interesting argument where he "argues that Jesus Christ’s mission foreshadows the military campaign of Titus in Judea". The parallels are uncanny and kind of hard to deny.