Gay Genes, Religous implications ?

Originally posted by mwm1331
To whomever mentioned depression etc.
Psychology as far as I am concerned has turned into nothng more than a institutionalised excuse machine.
Depression, ADHD etc are nothng more than excuses for those who refuse to tke responsibilty for thier own emotional state.
Skin color jakko is the result of pigmentation.
Also jakko you should reread the diet-pills article. At no point in that article do the scientist who actually did the study ever advance it as proof that people are "born gay"
The simple fact is that there is a huge difference between a statistical correlaton and a casual effect.
nt no point do those who actually did the study even imply a casual effect.
Are you capable of understanding the difference?

The sad thing is many of you actually believe you have no control over what you feel.
Why you would be willing to abandon or dismiss your ability to control the only thing you have any control over, your own inner world, I dont know. Maybe the idea that you are in control of your own mind scares you.
However the simple fact is the one and only thing you will ever have total control over is you mind, emotons, thoughts feelings etc. in other words your inner world.
To the bisexual poster, I dont know why you touched yourself at 5 but the simple fact that you did leads me to believe that something in your life twisted your natural sexual development.
Yes the brain has chemicals which can act to regulate moods sleep etc. however wht you fail to take into account is that even though you may be unaware of it, you are in control of those chemicals and thier release.
The idea that people are born gay, and that there is nothng wrong with it makes people feel emlightned, and tolerant, the truth is though that it makes you feel that way becuse afterall if gays have no control over thier sexuality it makes it easer for you to shift blame for your own lack of control of yourself to biology.
Your not undiscliplined. you have ADHD.
Your not a sexually depraved equal opportunity slut, you are biologically bisexual.
Your not weak, you suffer from depression.
These are very comforting les to tell yourself because it excuses you from the hard work of taking control of yourself, it allows you to blame your genes, your environment, the medications your mother took when pregnant etc, anything but yourself.
Blame it on the rain baby.
Whatever you do dont put the blame on you

Before you try and attempt to debate me, figure out the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE. I now take you just as serious as I do every other fool on the internet, that types like they have brain damage. "Your soo dum, nurulugee aint reel n e wayz, your jus maykin xcuses".

I find it amusing that you attacked only the biological part of my post, and not the moral part, everyone seems to follow that same pattern. This part being the most weak part of that particular post, I could see the attraction. I shall adress your response though.

On the note of brain disorders just being excuses, I really hope no one has ever given you a degree in neurology. People with any officialy diagnosed brain disorders, show specific neurological patterns. Certain parts of their brain work harder than the others, making their brain chemicaly unbalanced. If you'RE a dreamer, you can not just say "oh I better grow up" and it be immediately changed. Speaking from a purely scientific stand point, your neurologcal patterns are mostly what makes you who you are. Yes you can think for yourself, but that has nothing to do with how your brain controls your emotions. Your emotional imbalances have NOTHING to do with your intellectual thought process, saying that these disorders are really people that wont take responsibility for their own actions is ignorance in the highest.

What you did there with the little play on labels thing, works for you as well.

You're not an intolerant ignorant facist, you're just a good Christian!

Also, I know it's hard for you to fathom and all, but me touching myself at 5 had no outside influence. Most of my friends started masturbating way before puberty even took place, and none of them had outside influence either. I know it scares you, because it skews your take on reality, and I feel very sorry for your luck.

[edit on 16/2/2005 by XRippaManX]

Wow, this is the thread for me. I am not going to trash any of you people. I will leave that to Ed.


First I willl assume that all of you...........believe in evolution. I do not until they can get past Newton's second law (which is an impossibility).

Question: If it is in fact genetic, then would not millions of years of evolution breed that gene out? So in the animal kingdom (possibly fruit trees) these homosexual animals must have swung both ways!

Now that is choice! Interpret 'choice" they way you want.

Originally posted by Reaganwasourgreatest
Wow, this is the thread for me. I am not going to trash any of you people. I will leave that to Ed.

Your learning fast LOL

Question: If it is in fact genetic, then would not millions of years of evolution breed that gene out?

Maybe a millions of years of evolution has bred that gene in?




[edit on 2/16/2005 by LadyV]

i do NOT hate homosexuals,nor do i dislike them,nor do i want to opress them. but i must...as a biological scientist of sorts(freelance) agree with the evolution theory. natural selection would have weeded out homsexuality because it DOES not promote surivival of genes. humans ARE becoming stronger,smarter,and living longer. and in my opinion that is due to natural selection. of course it is a fact that 2 persons of the same sex cannot produce offspring,so if homosexuality were biological....could it be that strong of a trait that it couldn't be weeded out...unless it is an actual disease(cause by bacteria,virus,birth defects)? however,let me say,i still don't believe that any human has the right to condemn or harrass another human for their sexual choices.

Breed that gene in? You are kidding right? My bio profs would have loved that one.

Why would a system that is supposedly becoming more complex every day, preprogram to self-destruct?

I do believe in natural selection.

So if I understand correctly, all these animal extinctions not caused by rightwing extremists, are because they are faeries? Great, now this Christian can blame those endanged species, endangered because they are gay. Make sense to me!

Originally posted by Reaganwasourgreatest
Breed that gene in? You are kidding right? My bio profs would have loved that one.

So, you don't think there is such a thing as a mutated gene?

faeries?

??????

Great, now this Christian can blame those endanged species, endangered because they are gay. Make sense to me!

I'm sorry but who are youtalking to? I'm Wiccan, not Christian! Don't be insulting!

of course there are mutated genes!!!!!!! where do u think downs syndrome and sickle cell anemia come from? MUTATED GENES!!!! it is such a sensitive subject(homosexuality). so let me share some personal info...i am a woman..with a man..and 2 kids..but i find the female form to be more beautiful and sexually inviting than the male. however,i know for a fact that i cannot be in a long term relationship with a woman and of course i find the male sex very inviting,so could homosexuality be a genetic disposition? maybe some people find the same sex FAR more inviting than that of the opposite. but point blank...OH WELL!!! why should 2 men or women be condemned for LOVING each other? how bizzare is that? condeming love is MORE bizzare than condeming sexuality...in my opinion of course.

Originally posted by Reaganwasourgreatest
First I willl assume that all of you...........believe in evolution. I do not until they can get past Newton's second law (which is an impossibility).

Perhaps you need a refresher on Newton's Laws. Newton's second law states something like the acceleration of an object is dependent upon two variables - the net force acting upon the object and the mass of the object. What does this have to do with evolution?

You may be thinking of the second law of thermodynamics, however living organisms defy the second law all the time. Evolution does NOT stand in opposition to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, nor to Newton's 2nd law. You're thinking of abiogenesis.

yes indeed your are rightabout the first part, I am talking about the 2nd law of thermo (must have been thinking about work again) and I have heard the closed system argument before

www.noble-minded.org...

(for all those who feel like you)

Their claim is that it is a closed system. Sun yadda yadda.....

Tell me this then, if complex amino acids formed into proteins and there into life, how is an amino acid solution more complex than a RNA/DNA molecule in same solution?

Please come up with an example and I will refrain from ever mentioning 2nd law again. The link is above but come up with one yourself in a solution of salt and water

The little test they did was using sterile water. Ok so mother earth stoped diffision from taking place for the moment life first created itself randomly.

Please enlighten me!

Originally posted by Reaganwasourgreatest
yes indeed your are rightabout the first part, I am talking about the 2nd law of thermo (must have been thinking about work again) and I have heard the closed system argument before

Please refer to ANY previous post of mine re: evolution for a perspective on my beliefs.

I would suggest this thread as a good starting place.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by mattison0922]

Originally posted by XRippaManX


Before you try and attempt to debate me, figure out the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE. I now take you just as serious as I do every other fool on the internet, that types like they have brain damage. "Your soo dum, nurulugee aint reel n e wayz, your jus maykin xcuses".

I find it amusing that you attacked only the biological part of my post, and not the moral part, everyone seems to follow that same pattern. This part being the most weak part of that particular post, I could see the attraction. I shall adress your response though.

On the note of brain disorders just being excuses, I really hope no one has ever given you a degree in neurology. People with any officialy diagnosed brain disorders, show specific neurological patterns. Certain parts of their brain work harder than the others, making their brain chemicaly unbalanced. If you'RE a dreamer, you can not just say "oh I better grow up" and it be immediately changed. Speaking from a purely scientific stand point, your neurologcal patterns are mostly what makes you who you are. Yes you can think for yourself, but that has nothing to do with how your brain controls your emotions. Your emotional imbalances have NOTHING to do with your intellectual thought process, saying that these disorders are really people that wont take responsibility for their own actions is ignorance in the highest.

What you did there with the little play on labels thing, works for you as well.

You're not an intolerant ignorant facist, you're just a good Christian!

Also, I know it's hard for you to fathom and all, but me touching myself at 5 had no outside influence. Most of my friends started masturbating way before puberty even took place, and none of them had outside influence either. I know it scares you, because it skews your take on reality, and I feel very sorry for your luck.

[edit on 16/2/2005 by XRippaManX]

Wow I gave bad grammar? So what: irrelevant, to' the" discussion. Whether my grammer and speeling is perfect or not is neither the topic nor does it in any way increase or decrease the validity of my points. Nice to see though that you admit that the biological "born gay" argument is weak.
Yes some diagnosed brain disorders do show specific nuerological patterns. However are those patterns the cause or the symptom?
Your neurological patterns may make you who you are but I am far more than the sum of my electrochemical makeup.
Emotional embalances have nothing to do with thought processes? really? Try this, think about the saddest day of your life, jhow do you feel? Now think about the greatest triumph you have ever had? Now how do you feel?
You see the emotions can be controlled and are self directed, I know this because I control my emotions, I dont allow them to control me. Again its a queston of whehter you have the strength to exercise your abillity to choose or whether you surrender that abillity to biology.
As to the moral part of your post I saw you accuse me and others of beng upset when a woman is in a dominat position in a relatonship? Sorry but your barking up the wrong tree.
The simple fact is there is no moral postion you can take in defense of immorality, I love you and all other humans as best I can, because of that love I will not stand silkently by while you are lied to and led down the road to damnation, you see its not the fact that you are gay bisexual, trisexual or whatever that is the problem its that you think its ok. Its very similar to being a drug addict, you can fix the problem ntill you admit there is a problem. But I will pray for you none the less, maybe one day you will realise the truth if not I hope god forgives you anyway.

mwm,
1. Your create your own dumb little theory about things you don't understand, and present them in the most ignorant way possible.

2. You ignore scientific researches, because it suits your ignorance better.

3. You fail to understand why your "if you don't like it go fck yourself" attitude is not christian

4. You fail to understand why judging others is not what God wants you to do.

5. You think Americans are the people of God without any basis for it.

6. You are not someone that can be debated with in general, you change your opinion a few times in a thread when it suits your mood, and "explain" your contradicting posts afterwards in a lacking way.

Uhh jakko I have not changed my position and I have more than dealt with your diet pills theory, the bottom line is you have to attack my character becuase your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on due to your own inabillity to comprehend what you read.
As for what is not a christan attitude that sure sounds like a judgement to me, but of course its ok for you to judge. You see I haven't jusged anyone I just tell them what god said.
You on the other hand are trying to use a 5.2% correlation between mothers who have lesbian children and have also taken a diet drug to prove that homosexuality is caused by biology.
When you learn the difference between a correlation and a casual relationship you talk about debating untill then your just another woolly minded fool who cant interpert data.

Haha, and again your typing capablities seem to have decreased once again.

Listen I am now replying to your stupidity in 2 threads, and it is kind of getting old. I'm at least relieved I am not the only ATSer who thinks you're beyond ignorant.

Ignored.

Yeah my typing sucks, thats why I have two persoannal assistants for business correspondence.
Now what does my typing have to do with this discussion?
Your'e getting desperate jakko, you know as well as I you have already admitted defeat on the other thread and are hoping to muddy the waters.

Its OK though you never had a chance and I do so admire those who fight losing battles knowing full well they can't win.

Originally posted by mwm1331

Originally posted by XRippaManX


Before you try and attempt to debate me, figure out the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE. I now take you just as serious as I do every other fool on the internet, that types like they have brain damage. "Your soo dum, nurulugee aint reel n e wayz, your jus maykin xcuses".

I find it amusing that you attacked only the biological part of my post, and not the moral part, everyone seems to follow that same pattern. This part being the most weak part of that particular post, I could see the attraction. I shall adress your response though.

On the note of brain disorders just being excuses, I really hope no one has ever given you a degree in neurology. People with any officialy diagnosed brain disorders, show specific neurological patterns. Certain parts of their brain work harder than the others, making their brain chemicaly unbalanced. If you'RE a dreamer, you can not just say "oh I better grow up" and it be immediately changed. Speaking from a purely scientific stand point, your neurologcal patterns are mostly what makes you who you are. Yes you can think for yourself, but that has nothing to do with how your brain controls your emotions. Your emotional imbalances have NOTHING to do with your intellectual thought process, saying that these disorders are really people that wont take responsibility for their own actions is ignorance in the highest.

What you did there with the little play on labels thing, works for you as well.

You're not an intolerant ignorant facist, you're just a good Christian!

Also, I know it's hard for you to fathom and all, but me touching myself at 5 had no outside influence. Most of my friends started masturbating way before puberty even took place, and none of them had outside influence either. I know it scares you, because it skews your take on reality, and I feel very sorry for your luck.

[edit on 16/2/2005 by XRippaManX]

Wow I gave bad grammar? So what: irrelevant, to' the" discussion. Whether my grammer and speeling is perfect or not is neither the topic nor does it in any way increase or decrease the validity of my points. Nice to see though that you admit that the biological "born gay" argument is weak.
Yes some diagnosed brain disorders do show specific nuerological patterns. However are those patterns the cause or the symptom?
Your neurological patterns may make you who you are but I am far more than the sum of my electrochemical makeup.
Emotional embalances have nothing to do with thought processes? really? Try this, think about the saddest day of your life, jhow do you feel? Now think about the greatest triumph you have ever had? Now how do you feel?
You see the emotions can be controlled and are self directed, I know this because I control my emotions, I dont allow them to control me. Again its a queston of whehter you have the strength to exercise your abillity to choose or whether you surrender that abillity to biology.
As to the moral part of your post I saw you accuse me and others of beng upset when a woman is in a dominat position in a relatonship? Sorry but your barking up the wrong tree.
The simple fact is there is no moral postion you can take in defense of immorality, I love you and all other humans as best I can, because of that love I will not stand silkently by while you are lied to and led down the road to damnation, you see its not the fact that you are gay bisexual, trisexual or whatever that is the problem its that you think its ok. Its very similar to being a drug addict, you can fix the problem ntill you admit there is a problem. But I will pray for you none the less, maybe one day you will realise the truth if not I hope god forgives you anyway.

You know, take your bible and stick it up your holy corridor. You in no way can ever argue about morality without mentioning the bible can you? With it's lies and deception, and by the way, you are going to sit and watch as I "damn" myself. I already took the liberty of defiling these so called "Holy scriptures" myself, just as I would every history book I was forced to read in school. It's nothing more than propaganda. "He who holds all the power gets to right the history", trying to argue with people like you is like trying to argue with the average 5 year old. Reality is beyond you, and you refuse to look at the world with any common ideals. The bible has nothing to do with the arguement I am making, I would like to see you oppose me in one moral beliefe without any words that are close to:

"Well the bible says.." "God says.." "God doesn't want.." "God hates.." "You will go to hell for.." "Your eternal damnation..." "God.."

You can't though can you? Your morals are based on a BOOK, a book. Not what a divine being told you while you were sitting at home, not what a divine being told you in your dreams, but what you read in a B-O-O-K. I got an IM on AOL lastnight, someone trying to save me because Christ is supposed to come back soon. Sorry I believe in Christ already, and even according to his so called words, he'll defend me til the end of time if I am not ashamed of him. I in fact make it very clear that I love Jesus, and respect him. When you can debate human morality, and not biblical morality, then I'll come back and debate with you.

The attempt of proving emotional process is in anyway similar to intellectual process that you made, was a nice little trick, but trust me it only works on your average high school student. Try thinking about the saddest moment in your life, then being happy about it instead, you can't can you? Therefore you can not change your emotional reaction to things like that, because your brain reacts the way the human brain was made to react to these kinds of moments. When someone see's a ghost their brain is going to tell them to do something that is a reaction of one of these: Panic, Fear, Suprise, Astonishment. When someone's loved one dies their brain will produce reactions relating to these emotional responses: Sadness, Sorrow, Depression, Grief. By you saying these have anything to do with people not taking responsibility, you are saying, that people at funerals balling their eyes out are just using this death and their grieving of death as an excuse to cry.

Me thinking of a bad memory, causes these emotional reactions, emotional reactions my brain assigned to these events. If you were in one of those troops in Vietnam and saw one of the vietenamese girls being raped, and couldn't do anything about it, if your brain is chemicaly balanced to the point where your emotions work right you will feel a sense of horror. Everytime you think of a terrorizing memory, you will feel horror, as you should. You can not control these emotions, period. It's just like falling in love with someone, you can not change these emotions, because that's why you are in love with them in the first place they make you feel good. This is why it takes people a long time to get over a broken heart, they have to let their brain do it's thing so it may quit making them grieve. Your sexual and emotional compartments of your brain are not what you think with, those parts of your brain control themselves. It's more of an ego/religious problem, when people wont accept that.

XRippaManX - I have a suspicious hunch that if you keep letting this angst slip out, you're going to run into the ban hammer....

No need for name calling - Just put your ideas across and let it be....Reserve you're bickering for U2Us.....

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
XRippaManX - I have a suspicious hunch that if you keep letting this angst slip out, you're going to run into the ban hammer....

No need for name calling - Just put your ideas across and let it be....Reserve you're bickering for U2Us.....

It really amazes me to see how far trolls are allowed to go in their attempt to piss people off so much that they resort to namecalling.

Can't we call someone who is a retard a retard?
Ignorant just doesn't seem to cover half of it for some individuals.

[edit on 17-2-2005 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
XRippaManX - I have a suspicious hunch that if you keep letting this angst slip out, you're going to run into the ban hammer....

No need for name calling - Just put your ideas across and let it be....Reserve you're bickering for U2Us.....

It really amazes me to see how far trolls are allowed to go in their attempt to piss people off so much that they resort to namecalling.

Can't we call someone who is a retard a retard?
Ignorant just doesn't seem to cover half of it for some individuals.

[edit on 17-2-2005 by Jakko]

Thanks Jakko, I never understood why I need to censor myself anyway, especially considering the board I am posting all of this on.

There's also a difference between me offending someone by calling them ignorant, a facist, incompotent, etc; and me calling them a "Stupid F$$$$NG F$$$$T". In which, I agree should not be tolerated. I'm not hate criming anyone, 'nor calling them a "retard" "f face" "son of a..", etc etc. I may end up offending the person with these words, but they're not qualified for labeling as flaming.

"Ignorant just doesn't seem to cover half of it for some individuals", exactly. Sometimes it goes way beyond that, it's not like I'm flaming anyone using the same unacceptable phrases above.

[edit on 17/2/2005 by XRippaManX]

Stop the name calling NOW