Trump Threatens Coverage Of Millions If Democrats Won’t Negotiate On ACA Repeal

a reply to: allsee4eye

I agree that it's here to stay. So if the government/taxpayers don't help foot the bill of the poor that's going to be a lot of out of work people dying due to lack of healthcare.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ketsuko

Because they tried to reach across the aisle. Remember that the ACA is essentially nationwide Romneycare. If the Republicans couldn't get healthcare right in Massachusetts why should we now trust them to get it right on a national scale?

You'll note none of them thought it was a good idea on a national scale. Hence why none of them voted for the mess in the first place; it was passed along strict party lines. No bipartisanship involved.

Part of the point of a federalist system is that states are free to do things like Romneycare and stare in horror as it turns into a disaster without hurting the other 49. By then, it could be seen that Romneycare was a mess and that there was no good rationale to make it national, but the Dems did it anyway.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: allsee4eye

I agree that it's here to stay. So if the government/taxpayers don't help foot the bill of the poor that's going to be a lot of out of work people dying due to lack of healthcare.

I missed all those corpses prior to Obamacare and somehow lived through my years without any insurance.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

If the Dems wanted a good bill, why didn't they get it right the first time?

Oh, look at all the compromises and reversals Trump's been making in the last few days.

a reply to: ketsuko

I jumped a little but I thought the connections were pretty obvious. The user I replied to said the government shouldn't help with healthcare at all. The rise in automation is going to lead to a lot of out of work people. The people in service/manufacturing/etc jobs can barely afford healthcare as is with subsidies.

So if those people aren't making money they won't exactly be able to pay for health insurance. Which means there will be a lot of people dying due to lack of healthcare.

a reply to: ketsuko

Remember that the ACA spent a lot of time in committee. That means it was worked on by both Republicans and Democrats. If the Republicans had a better idea why didn't they propose it?

a reply to: ketsuko

The government was effectively subsidizing healthcare then as well. If someone couldn't afford their hospital bill then it was either up to the hospital or the taxpayer to eat the cost.

Among other things this led to hospital closures and astronomically long ER wait times. Not to mention the fact that since they didn't have insurance the poor would only go to the hospital when a problem was extremely serious leading to the hospital/taxpayer eating extremely high bills.

Trump Threatens Coverage Of Millions If Democrats Won’t Negotiate On ACA Repeal

How far will the pendulum swing in 18 if Trump even tries. Even the GOP won't go for this BS, with good reason.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
America isn't a socialist country. Want free health care? Russia is that way.

en.wikipedia.org...

What would you call a system where people pool their money and take care of people who need help?

Our system is consumer socialism. We (consumers) send huge $$$ to an insurance co, they dish it out to those who need it.

In a socialized county taxes are taken, then the govt. dishes out $$$ to those who need it.

The difference is there is a corp or a govt dishing out the $$$$.

In the US govt medical is (supposedly) more efficient than the private sector.

This just highlights Trump's political inexperience.

If he wants to repeal Obamacare, he should go about it the same way it was passed: he needs to lie is a** off. Tell people if they like their current insurance plan, they can keep it. Tell people that repealing Obamacare will save the average American household thousands of dollars. Tell them they can go back to the doctor they lost under Obamacare. Tell people that the US Government will save trillions over so many years.

Obamacare was sold based on a pack of lies, it can be repealed the same way.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: rickymouse
We do need to replace Obamacare, it is too expensive, but they need to work together to do that. I actually thought Obamacare might work but it was a mess from the beginning and it got worse.

The Dems wanted to work on it, fixing it.

The Reps refused.

Yeah, but they really did not want to start fixing it till after Trump got elected. If they would have got rid of the problems as they were showing up, yes, Obama care would have been better. I am actually more towards giving everyone basic socialized medicine, then they can buy whatever extra coverage they want. The government has to take a stance on controling high costs and punishing doctors that are abusing medicine for profit and start investigating the side effects of medicines that cause extra medicines to be needed then lower quality of life severely. Lots of medicines we use here are not allowed in other countries.

More money is spent on finding new meds than in researching reasons we are getting sick and in testing if FDA approved food additives are safe.

a reply to: Xcalibur254
You (and many other seemingly anti-Trump ranters) always seem to mistake giving back power to the states as being anti-poor or anti-working class.

Why are you so afraid of the states regaining power that never should have been usurped by the federal government? The 10th Amendment is a part of the Bill of Rights for a reason--it was to keep the federal government from growing too large and taking control over every aspect of our lives.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

It's pretty cut and dry--they should just be repealing the damn PPACA and leaving it at that. All that legislation did was shift around stats and put insurance companies out of business and take away people's doctors and make the cost of insurance increase dramatically.

The government shouldn't be in the business of subsidizing everyone's health insurance costs. I would rather see my costs increase because the government is out of the health-insurance business than because of piss-poor legislation that has had a negative net effect on most people in the United States, whether it be higher costs, losing their doctors, less plan options, being "taxed" if they don't purchase health insurance (which is still illegal, I don't care how the judicial branch rewrote the law...which is not allowed), losing choice in health-insurance companies, etc.

The list could go on and on...

originally posted by: underwerks
So Trump wants to play with people's lives just to give himself a win.
That says a lot.

And the ACA in general wasn't playing with peoples lives?
Come on now... Don't be blinded by your identity politics. The left and the right have been playing with peoples lives for decades. In fact if you look at it across the board the left has been far more involved in social engineering projects than the right. Yet poverty and hunger are still huge epidemics.

Way to go left!

You all are certainly doing a bang up job building a liberal utopia where violence and poverty don't exist and everyone gets free healthcare no matter how unhealthy of a lifestyle they live...

Its ok, the republicans had the chance to prove to america that they are true patriots, but no cant even have that, so they will keep blaming the left while the middle class gets destroyed.

Enjoy your 4 to 8 years of the replicants doing nothing, that's all they seem to know to do.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
And what do you think is going to happen when the entire working class can't afford healthcare?

Oh that's right, all those jobs will be done by robots within the next 10 years.

No--that's what's starting to happen now, because companies can't afford to subsidize their employees' health insurance anymore. Same reason why full-time employment is dropping, too, because of the mandates in the PPACA. Also, health insurance in becoming unaffordable--or, at least, a financial burden--for a large portion of the working class.

Maybe then the neocons will get their wish and all the poor will die. All in the name of Christ of course.

Ad Hominem attacks--a sure sign of a piss-poor ability to factually back up one's claims. It's a classic tell...

I see ZERO authority granted in the Constitution that would allow the Federal government to meddle in healthcare. That's why the typical leftist boondoggle of Obamacare had to be passed (and was subsequently upheld) as a tax -- something Congress is constitutionally empowered to do.

Under the 10th Amendment, states are free to establish any healthcare system they chose, but there is absolutely no authority granted the Federal government to do so.

That being said, we have Obamacare. It has ALWAYS been my personal preference to allow it to completely collapse. This is 100% a Democrat/liberal-caused disaster and Nature should be allowed to take Her course to remind everyone how leftist policies always end up.

If Obamacare is simply allowed to implode -- as every expert on Earth says it surely will, that's 100% on the liberals. Not one Republican voted for it. But as is always the case with liberals, they create a mess and then expect the Republicans to come in and clean it up.

I am well aware that when Obamacare collapses (assuming the all-too-kindhearted Republicans don't fix or replace it), millions of subsidized low-income recipients will lose their healthcare. My guess is that about 90% of these folks vote liberal. This will be a good lesson for them!

I disagree with President Trump on this issue. Again, the Constitution grants no authority to the Federal government to get into the healthcare business, nor is there any right established for the individual to be provided healthcare by the Fed's.

Obamacare was just another end-around attempt at wealth-confiscation by the Left. Well, it worked. 8 years of a lousy economy, 95 million eligible workers out of the labor force, and after all that, we're still stuck with a collapsing liberal redistribution scam. All that cost this nation trillions of dollars and harmed millions in the process.

I don't know how ANYONE can blame the Republicans for any of this. This is 100% the fault of the least-experienced, least-prepared, and least-qualified "president" in US history using a tiny numerical majority to pass a law that very few wanted.

Anyone who studies the framing of the Constitution even a little knows that the Framers' primary concern was to limit the size and reach of the Federal government. They wanted to prevent Federal incursion into the lives of individuals, not enable it.

That's why this is a 10th Amendment issue. Let the states compete for the best system. Let the Federal government provide block grants and basic oversight. Let the free markets work. I have no problem with a national sales tax of some kind distributed equally, based upon population, to the states to pay for it all.

Again, I think the best thing for this country long term is to abruptly stop the entitlements chuck wagon too many have been riding for too long, let Obamacare collapse, let Medicaid pick up the slack in the interim for those currently being subsidized, and then let the states handle it as they see fit.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: allsee4eye

I agree that it's here to stay. So if the government/taxpayers don't help foot the bill of the poor that's going to be a lot of out of work people dying due to lack of healthcare.

What are you ignoring medicaid/medicare that account for over 120 million Americans?

Both created specifically for the poor.

Neither one work, and are a far cry from what private healthcare can provide.

We are footing the bill for the poor.

Taxing the rich doesn't work.

Pulling treasuries out of thin air doesn't work.

Borrowing trillions from foreign countries doesn't work.

Print more fiat currency doesn't work.

Creating NEW taxes like the medicare capital gains surtax doesn't work.

Raising taxes on a minority doesn't work.

Because the revenue stolen doesn't cover the monies spent.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ketsuko

Remember that the ACA spent a lot of time in committee. That means it was worked on by both Republicans and Democrats. If the Republicans had a better idea why didn't they propose it?

You must have been willfully not paying attention to the entire process. The Republicans were ignored and shut out of the bill. Obama said it best, "I won." And that was that.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

If the Dems wanted a good bill, why didn't they get it right the first time?

Because they wouldn't allow us to see what was in it first. Obama's special interests came first and said #### the average American.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
The AHCA was a giant middle finger to the poor. The proposed changes to education primarily benefit the rich. Hell, many of the program and agencies he wants to gut/cut are primarily used by the lower class.

If Trump and the GOP keep up this anti-working class stance they have seemingly adopted they're going to be hurting when 2018/20 comes around.

Uh, the ACA was a double middle finger to the American middle class, who were the ones who voted for Trump in the first place. I think you're being a bit too loosey-goosey with your assessment that the AHCA somehow harms Trump's base, because it doesn't.