London attacker was British born and known to MI5

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Try Karratha.

Come visit me some time and I'll show you around the shopping centre.

That is if you can handle the heat..?

a reply to: Phage

" known to the police " - means practucally nothing :

in most instances it just eans that the scroat has been convicted or investigated for a " similar " offence

" of interest to the security services " however.............

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: Phage

" known to the police " - means practucally nothing :

in most instances it just eans that the scroat has been convicted or investigated for a " similar " offence

" of interest to the security services " however.............

He was known to the police because he was a petty criminal with a string of convictions, mostly for violent conduct ...

a reply to: gortex

Really? So immigration did not bring Islam to these shores?

Personally I believe these attacks are self defeating if we only rise above it.

There are scum Muslim Schools out there and lots of them, we are clever enough to publicize them anonymously which will force any Muslim who wants to practice in peace, close them down.

If they don't, they too will be publicized until someone makes a difference.

If we keep our heads, but up the pressure, this can be closed out. If we lose our heads, it won't end well for many people.

They are digging their own hole, let them dig.

a reply to: pavil

Well, with the Japanese situation, the feeling seems to be that the Japanese did an awful lot of disgusting things to China and other places over which they held sway, for quite some time. I think its fair to say that although there is no one in Japan who is glad the bombs dropped, there are people in Japan who would be happy to tell you that the dropping of those bombs made the people aware of the effects of their own nations actions, on others.

The Japanese did absolutely barbaric things to the Chinese during the war they conducted against them, including torture, experimentation on live subjects that echoed Nazi experimentation of the same era, not to mention using weapons of mass destruction themselves, against the Chinese. They infected huge areas with anthrax, spread plague carrying fleas around, used chemical weapons and sent in men in hazard suits to record the effects, standing over the agonised, twitching victims of this chemical and that biological weapon, as they died, noting the effects down on clip boards. This is besides the pure brutality with which many Chinese were treated at the hands of Japanese troops on the ground. Babies bayoneted, pregnant women opened up with trenching tools, people staked out at the outer perimeter of their property or their village. Dark ages mentality.

I think the Japanese treat the destruction of their cities by both nuclear and mundane US weapons, as a kind of awful karma, something that happened to them because they allowed something awful to happen to others.

As for the DRC, such is the violence visited upon entire districts of that country with regularity, by its own people no less, that the people there are concerned far more with immediate survival, than they are notions of revenge in the main. You are talking about a nation which has not had a peaceful handover of power from one group or individual, to another, since 1960. The people of the DRC do not have the spare time and resources to consider revenge in anything other than an opportunistic fashion.

And heres another thing, and this is important....

The simple fact of the matter is, that current terrorism is spawned not from the actions of the West one hundred or more years ago, but instead from what is happening NOW, bombs that Britain and America dropped in RECENT times, what nations do to the populations of other nations with guns and munitions WE sold them and are still selling NOW! This is not a matter therefore of some psychotic obsession with events that happened eighty years before most of those fighting were even born. The situations are not comparable in the least!

a reply to: TrueBrit

My analogies stand... Both examples were far worse than anything launched on Middle Eastern Muslim Countries. Your attempt to say "well they had it coming or they have always been like that" fall flat to me. Most terrorists we see aren't even from the countries afflicted by US or UK actions. Your giving excuses to jihadis for their actions, when the House of Saud and it nihilist Wahabbi School of Islam has been allowed to be exported all over the world, radicalizing fools everywhere. We need to cut the source of all of that. Saudi Arabia is the fountainhead, it needs to change or face destruction. The Wahabbi School of Islam is not compatible with anyone else, even other Muslims. That the world allowed it to flourish is the defining stain of our age.

a reply to: pavil

You obviously did not read my post.

I never said that Japan deserved it. I said that they have come to feel that they did. No one deserves nuking. No one, no matter what they have done.

Secondly, I did NOT say that DRC has "always been like it". I said that since 1960, the people there have been too busy staying alive, surviving various peoples attempts at ethnic cleansing, coups, wars, and God alone knows how many different gangs and psychotic militias, to even THINK about what happened in their country decades and decades and DECADES ago.

There IS a difference, because Belgium is not committing genocide in the region NOW, and has not done for many, many years. There IS a difference, because America is not bombing Japan into the ground NOW. Britain and America as well as other international partners however, ARE destroying the Middle East's stability, using proxy armies, bombing raids, drone strikes and the like, they ARE killing stupid numbers of civilians, they are and they have been, without significant stoppage time, for quite a long time now. That makes the threat they pose to the region current, not purely historical, and therefore an ENTIRELY different kettle of fish. It is highly disingenuous to state otherwise, since no rational process could lead a person to believe otherwise, which suggests that your argument is rather more based on the need to have an argument, rather than your belief that your position is legitimate.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You are not getting my point. My examples by your definitions, should have caused terror attacks by the Japanese and Congolese in the decades after against the US and Belgium. Your explanations of "but instead from what is happening NOW, bombs that Britain and America dropped in RECENT times" should have meant those countries I described should have done the same kinds of terror attacks we see perpetuated by jihadis in the years following the destruction of Japan and Congo. It's a facet of Middle Eastern thought that is the least common denominator of all of these, not the violence. No where else in the world do you see such behavior for the most part. Where else or what other religion praises suicide attacks as some of the holiest of actions. Something has gone very wrong with the direction of Islam and it's headed for a path of death and destruction. Islam is in the midst of it's defining moment in the modern world. It will either choose the jihaddi path or seek to become part of the peaceful world community. It's at a crossroads. Hopefully it chooses well. In the meantime, I'd rather not export more Wahabbists to my country.

a reply to: pavil

For a start, the Congolese had resistance forces in country for quite some time before gaining their independence. They were busy people. They had both passive and active resistance methods at their disposal, so its not as if they just laid down and took it. In fact, right after the nation had gained technical independence from Belgium, but was still policed by a great many Europeans, those European elements faced serious violence, up to and including murder.

And as for the Japanese, the Japanese were not innocent victims of some dastardly plot to eviscerate their culture and enslave their population. In fact, it was quite the reverse. They enslaved Chinese, Korean, and other populations during their expansion in the pacific region, and during their war with the Chinese, millions upon millions of Chinese civilians were killed, either as a direct result of the conflict, or from famine resulting from it. Further to that, a few million Chinese soldiers were said to have perished. Couple that with the numbers who died in the extensive forced labour program, and the WAY some of these various people died, and you can understand why, when they were shown that their leader was not all powerful, that their nationalist tendencies were in fact a disease, rather than a cure, why they became humble and willing to take up peace.

And it must also be said that the Japanese people had a great deal of respect for their Emperor, ingrained in their culture so it was. Loyalty to the Emperor was supposed to be absolute, and while that did not stop a small number of military figures trying to prevent his surrender speech from being broadcast, in the main, once it had been broadcast (and its message had been understood by the people) they simply complied, largely speaking. The only reason for that, the only reason for a nation absolutely awash with capable warriors and loyal subjects to down their weapons and agree to peace, was that loyalty to the Emperor. Such was that loyalty, that on the day of the announcement, and indeed for some time after, a great many Japanese stayed at home, rather than go about their normal business, so that they could contemplate and meditate on the implications of the announcement.

Simply put, they had discipline and loyalty to their Emperor to stay their hand.

Now, pacifism is pretty much written into their constitutional documents, to prevent them dishonouring themselves by erecting a fascist military state ever again.

But, if that peace had not been declared, or if the Emperor had been killed with no one to replace him never having confirmed the surrender, then it is most certainly the case that the Japanese would have fought to the last living one of them, and been driven to extinction entirely. The idea that they would have fought till the last man, had there been no surrender, is proven by the fact that holdouts, Japanese forces cut off from communications and forgotten on islands and in jungles, have been found as recently as 1974. At the time they were located, many of these holdouts refused to accept that the war was over, so much so that one of them died in a shootout with Philippine police during his attempted capture. Most of those who have been found, refused to believe the surrender was real, unless their commanding officers were bought before them to confirm it.

If the US had tried to occupy Japan in the absence of instruction from the Emperor, that the people of Japan surrender, given the behaviour of the holdouts who have been discovered, it is reasonable to assume that the US personnel there would have had a MUCH harder time, a much, much harder time of occupying the place. As it is, the Japanese accepted pacifism in the near total fashion they did, largely out of respect for the Emperor.

However, that peace was able to exist because once surrender was called, military actions against the Japanese by the Allied forces, CEASED. They were no longer happening. There was occupation, but bombs were not dropping, orphans were not being made by US action in the region anymore. But right at this moment, there ARE bombs dropping all over the Middle East, which kill more innocent civilians than they ever do legitimate targets, and are laughingly called precision strikes. While that continues, there is no reason to expect any peace to exist, any downward trend in terror attacks or recruitment. None what so ever.

Put another way, if someone did to me, to my country, what the West has done to the Middle East, I would seek their deaths till the last of my days, and everyone and everything that ever got in my way would be rendered into many, quivering pieces. I do not expect that this sentiment is rare amongst humankind.

a reply to: Phage

Well that's the point isn't it , unless they commit a crime and become the suspect for something they are just members of the public free to go about their daily business as was the case in this attack.

originally posted by: Chadwickus

The point is, shutting down the borders would have done jack all in stopping this, and future attacks.

Where do you think radical Islam comes from? Do you think it is born in British schools? Your logic suggests if the borders were shut down last week then that would have zero affect on this, and I agree, but if the borders were controlled a decade ago then maybe this guy would not have grown up being a radical.

originally posted by: TrueBrit


Put another way, if someone did to me, to my country, what the West has done to the Middle East, I would seek their deaths till the last of my days, and everyone and everything that ever got in my way would be rendered into many, quivering pieces. I do not expect that this sentiment is rare amongst humankind.

Great post, and I agree, but you are missing one key point here. They do 10 times what the west has done to them to each other. Radical Islam is not some ideology of them against the West it is whatever sect against everyone else. During the Iraq war the vast majority of deaths were Muslim on Muslim, in very brutal ways. The Sunnis and Shi'as have been killing each other for what a millennium or two...hehe

One of the most surprising details is his age, 52 years old!
He also had a wife and children.

He was known to the police and MI5 because he had a string of convictions for violent crimes (stabbing someone in the head!) and weapons offences. He was jailed twice and apparently radicalised behind bars. He then moved to Saudi Arabia for a while then came back to set up his own teaching firm in Birmingham.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Why does everything always lead to Saudi Arabia and why don't anyone do anything about it?
Do they have us by the balls somehow?

originally posted by: gortex
Theresa May has just confirmed that the perpetrator of yesterdays cowardly attack was British born and had been previously known to security services , once again a Brit has attacked Britain and the attack was not , as some would like to think , related to immigration.
...

No, but it is related to radical Islam. I see that you did not include the fact that the attack was perpetrated in the name of Islam itself.

Islam needs a reform, otherwise we are going to continue seeing more and more of these attacks on innocents. There was no prophet after Mohammed who told Muslims not to follow the old "radical" ways. Instead these days it is a personal choice. It is a personal choice for Muslims to follow the old radical ways that Mohammed himself followed. Or it is a choice to completely ignore the radical ways. However, radicals continuously target children, and susceptible Muslims, and bombard them with every evil deed that Mohammed did as a way to turn even moderate Muslims into radicals. Unless a serious reform is done to Islam in which the old radical ways that Mohammed partook in is disavowed and most imam denounce those old radical ways, or we will continue to see an increase in these horrendous, and cowardly acts attacking innocents.

originally posted by: 83Liberty
One of the most surprising details is his age, 52 years old!
He also had a wife and children.

He was known to the police and MI5 because he had a string of convictions for violent crimes (stabbing someone in the head!) and weapons offences. He was jailed twice and apparently radicalised behind bars. He then moved to Saudi Arabia for a while then came back to set up his own teaching firm in Birmingham.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Why does everything always lead to Saudi Arabia and why don't anyone do anything about it?
Do they have us by the balls somehow?

Unsure on the US but the UK sells them approx 750bn in military hardware per year. Hence they get a free pass. And they avoid Donnie's travel ban. It's all a complete joke.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Who's relying on the interwebs? I live in W.A. and yes we do have shopping "malls"

a reply to: Chadwickus

hahaha...Perth is getting milder summers every year...why would I come to Karratha? The least you could do is admit that we do have shopping malls in W.A.

How can anyone say this isn't an immigration issue? How did this man come to be born in the UK?

Until radical Islam is eradicated from within Islam, it is guaranteeing more death to it's citizens for Western countries to allow them in. If we are OK with that, then by all means, let them in. I thought government was meant to protect it's citizens, clearly I was wrong.

a reply to: TruMcCarthy

How did this man come to be born in the UK?

When a Mommy and a Daddy love each other very much...

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

My bad i had you all wrong.

You dont really say " im off to the mall" do you ?