White House 'officially putting Iran on notice' after missile launch

a reply to: CaDreamer

nope

My main concern with this is Russia. This will not help ease the tensions we already have with them. The liberals want war with Russia, the neo-cons want war with Russia, this could start it.

Trump has openly said he wants good relations with Russia so this should be interesting. Seems like a mess to me.

Iran is bad news... but Sauri Arabia is less secular than they are, and even more oppressive. (Especially toward women.) They're also the wellspring of Wahhabism.

Saudi Arabia is the linchpin of our petrodollar scheme and one of our largest arms sales recipients though so... can't rock that boat, evidently.

Renegotiating the Iran nuclear deal will be a non-starter with Iran... and I doubt we have much political and diplomatic will to come to agreement now anyway. And once the deal is scrapped, which it probably will be, they will restart enrichment. Israel, eventually, given enough time, will act to defend itself from what it calculates is an existential threat.

War with Iran is virtually a foregone conclusion, either by our hand, Israel's, or both. During this administration, or another.

I pray I'm wrong.

Peace.

a reply to: AceWombat04

Nah, I don't think a war w/Iran will happen. I was both heartbroken and furious in 2004 when Bush was reelected because I was sure he would attack Iran next. If it was going to happen, that would've been the most likely time.

I doubt Western citizens want to fight an even worse version of the Iraq War. Iran has more than twice as many citizens as Iraq, has completely different terrain, is 4 times bigger, and has infinitely better technology than Iraq did when we invaded them. People forget that Iraq had roughly 10 years of crippling sanctions on them before we invaded, which devastated every part of their economy. And we had no-fly zones over parts of Northern Iraq before the war was launched, which we clearly don't have over Iran.

I also don't think the nuclear deal with be scrapped or renegotiated. Remember, the nuclear deal isn't a deal solely between the US and Iran. Even if Trump pulled out of the deal, the deal would still be binding for the others, who I expect would simply ignore the US's decision.

originally posted by: Wookiep
My main concern with this is Russia. This will not help ease the tensions we already have with them. The liberals want war with Russia, the neo-cons want war with Russia, this could start it.

Trump has openly said he wants good relations with Russia so this should be interesting. Seems like a mess to me.

I think you're stereotyping too much. First, you're forgetting that a massive segment of American liberals are "bleeding heart", "anti-war", "tree hugging" pacifists. And second, you're seemingly forgetting that many people on the right have been criticized this election season for wanting to get too close to Russia.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

And on top of what you just pointed out, Obama also released 1.7 billion dollars to Iran recently, much of which was in CASH money, laundered through Swiss banks, loaded onto pallets, and flown to Iran and handed over to "who knows".

So, they have had some time to "build up" and develop.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I pray you're right. The fear for me, as always, is human nature and miscalculation, more so than any sort of plot or plan by anyone. We might decide not to go to war with Iran. But can we ensure Israel won't? Especially if we really do further inflame tensions in the region by moving our embassy to Jerusalem?

I'm trying to be optimistic... but I think the danger of armed conflict with Iran happening through emergent behavior and unpredictable miscalculation is actually higher now than before. We had dangerous and warmongering, but ultimately rational, actors in place then. I'm not sure that's the case any longer, necessarily. I think the conventional wisdom and logic and predictability of the international order is much less sound today even than then.

As I say, I pray I'm wrong. I'll be happy if I am.

Peace.

does the U.S. have a mutual defense agreement with Saudi Arabia? if not let them fight their own battles.

a reply to: queenofswords

Iran is no threat to us, though they're economic & political rivals with the GCC and Israel. So like always, Israel & the GCC will find a way to get us to take down their enemies for them.

It happened with Qaddafi, who went so far as to try to assassinate the former Saudi King Abdullah. And it happened with Saddam, who paid the families of Palestinians killed in conflict with Israel, attacked Israel during Desert Storm, and was going to invade Saudi Arabia after he invaded Kuwait. Of course, Israel had also blown up an Iraqi nuclear plant in 1981 (in "Operation Opera/Operation Babylon"), so it was definitely a mutual hatred.

Right now it's happening in Syria, a country that has gone to war with Israel several times, is a staunch ally of Iran, & is ruled by the same Ba'ath Party that Saddam led in Iraq. Syria also had a large chemical weapons stockpile which was their counter to Israel's nukes, but the Obama & Putin got Assad to give those up during this current civil war.

And if the hunch in this thread is correct, we'll be even more involved in the GCC's war with Yemen and will potentially open new hostilities with Iran. For those who don't know, Saudi Arabia tried and failed to conquer Yemen 2 years after Saudi Arabia was first formed in 1932. They've even backed factions in Yemen's civil wars since then. But since they can't seem to beat Yemen now, even with all of their top notch military technology purchases, they appear to be calling in the cavalry.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You know what I like most about Trump's immigration policy?


In his document it states he can add countries at anytime deemed necessary. Upon information passed to him from certain departments.

a reply to: AceWombat04

You could be right. Honestly, I'm also trying to convince myself that our countries won't do it. I can't allow myself to lose faith that people will finally pursue peace.

Boghammar speedboats vs A6-E loaded with Rockeye cluster bombs....bring it on!



The Iranian frigate Sahand burning stem to stern, attacked by aircraft of U.S. Navy Carrier Air Wing 11
Date 18 April 1988
Location Persian Gulf
Result United States victory

en.wikipedia.org...


On 18 April, the U.S. Navy attacked with several groups of surface warships, plus aircraft from the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, and her cruiser escort, USS Truxtun. The action began with coordinated strikes by two surface groups.
One Surface Action Group, or SAG, consisting of the destroyers USS Merrill (including embarked LAMPS MK I Helicopter Detachment HSL-35 Det 1) and USS Lynde McCormick, plus the amphibious transport dock USS Trenton and its embarked Marine Air-Ground Task Force (Contingency MAGTF 2-88 from Camp LeJeune, NC)[citation needed] and the LAMPS (Light Airborne MultiPurpose System) Helicopter Detachment (HSL-44 Det 5) from USS Samuel B. Roberts, was ordered to destroy the guns and other military facilities on the Sassan oil platform. At 8am, the SAG commander, who was also the commander of Destroyer Squadron 9, ordered Merrill to radio a warning to the occupants of the platform, telling them to abandon it. The SAG waited 20 minutes, then opened fire. The oil platform fired back with twin-barrelled 23mm ZU-23 guns. The SAG's guns eventually disabled some of the ZU-23s, and platform occupants radioed a request for a cease-fire. The SAG complied. After a tug carrying more personnel had cleared the area, the ships resumed exchanging fire with the remaining ZU-23s, and ultimately disabled them. Cobra helicopters completed the destruction of enemy resistance. The Marines boarded the platform, and recovered a single wounded survivor (who was transported to Bahrain), some small arms, and intelligence. The Marines planted explosives, left the platform, and detonated them. The SAG was then ordered to proceed north to the Rakhsh oil platform to destroy it.
As the SAG departed the Sassan oil field, two Iranian F-4s made an attack run, but broke off when Lynde McCormick locked its fire control radar on the aircraft. Halfway to the Rahksh oil platform, the attack was called off in an attempt to ease pressure on the Iranians and signal a desire for de-escalation.
The other group, which included guided missile cruiser USS Wainwright and frigates USS Simpson and USS Bagley , attacked the Sirri oil platform. Navy SEALs were assigned to capture, occupy and destroy the Sirri platform but due to heavy pre-assault damage from naval gunfire, it was determined that an assault was not required.
Iran responded by dispatching Boghammar speedboats to attack various targets in the Persian Gulf, including the American-flagged supply ship Willie Tide, the Panamanian-flagged oil rig Scan Bay and the British tanker York Marine. All of these vessels were damaged in different degrees. After the attacks, A-6E Intruder aircraft launched from CVN 65 were directed to the speedboats by an American frigate. The two aircraft, piloted by "Lizards" Lieutenant Commander James Engler and Lieutenant Paul Webb, dropped Rockeye cluster bombs on the speedboats, sinking one and damaging several others, which then fled to the Iranian-controlled island of Abu Musa.[5]
PrayingMantis.png
Action continued to escalate. Joshan, an Iranian Combattante II Kaman-class fast attack craft, challenged USS Wainwright and Surface Action Group Charlie. The commanding officer of Wainwright directed a final warning (of a series of warnings) stating that Joshan was to "stop your engines, abandon ship, I intend to sink you". Joshan responded by firing a Harpoon missile at them.[6] The missile was successfully lured away by chaff.[7] Simpson responded to the challenge by firing four Standard missiles, while Wainwright followed with one Standard missile.[8] All missiles hit and destroyed the Iranian ship's superstructure but did not immediately sink it, so Bagley fired a Harpoon of its own; the missile did not find the target. SAG Charlie closed on Joshan, with Simpson, then Bagley and Wainwright firing guns to sink the crippled Iranian ship.[6]
Two Iranian F-4 Phantom fighters were orbiting about 48 km away when Wainwright decided to drive them away. Wainwright fired two Extended Range Standard missiles, one of which detonated near an F-4, blowing off part of its wing and peppering the fuselage with shrapnel. The F-4s withdrew, and the Iranian pilot landed his damaged airplane at Bandar Abbas.[8]
Fighting continued when the Iranian frigate Sahand departed Bandar Abbas and challenged elements of an American surface group. The frigate was spotted by two Lizard A-6Es while they were flying surface combat air patrol for USS Joseph Strauss.

Iranian frigate Sahand burning from bow to stern on 18 April 1988 after being attacked.
Sahand fired missiles at the A-6Es, which replied with two Harpoon missiles and four laser-guided Skipper missiles. Joseph Strauss fired a Harpoon. Most, if not all of the shots scored hits, causing heavy damage and fires. Fires blazing on Sahand's decks eventually reached her munitions magazines, causing an explosion that sank the vessel.
Late in the day, the Iranian frigate Sabalan departed from its berth and fired a surface-to-air missile at several A-6Es from VA-95. The A-6Es then dropped a Mark 82 laser-guided bomb into Sabalan's stack, crippling the ship and leaving it burning. The Iranian frigate, stern partially submerged, was taken in tow by an Iranian tug, and was repaired and eventually returned to service. VA-95's aircraft, as ordered, did not continue the attack. The A-6 pilot who crippled Sabalan, LCDR James Engler, was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross by Admiral William J. Crowe, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for the actions against Sabalan and the Iranian gunboats.[9]
In retaliation for the attacks, Iran fired Silkworm missiles (suspected to be the HY-4 version) from land bases against SAG Delta in the Strait of Hormuz and against USS Gary in the northern central Persian Gulf, but all missed due to the evasive maneuvers and use of decoys by the ships. A missile was probably shot down by Gary's 76 mm (3.0 in) gun. The Pentagon and the Reagan Administration later denied that any Silkworm missile attacks took place probably since it was the only way to keep the situation from escalating further as they had promised before publicly that any such attacks would merit retaliation against targets on Iranian soil.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I dont understand this mindset on invasion.. Even those who defend Russia talk about how hard an invasion of Russia would be.

Why invade? Bombing is just as effective for short term military goals.

No one wants to invade Iran nor Russia. Neither offer anything that would make it worth it.

Iran has responded to U.S the threat by saying it hasn't broken any of its commitments and will continue to test its ballistic missiles , they also took a potshot at the "inexperienced" Trump administration by calling Trumps tweet an "empty threat"

Ali Akbar Velayati said

"This is not the first time that an inexperienced person has threatened Iran, Iran is the strongest power in the region and has a lot of political, economic and military power ... America should be careful about making empty threats to Iran.

Iran will continue to test its capabilities in ballistic missiles and Iran will not ask any country for permission in defending itself.
"
www.nbcnews.com...

Good for them.

originally posted by: BlueAjah
Iran fired on a ship, intending to take out a US ship.
Obama made a deal with these people, saying it would bring peace.
Now they can build nukes - because of Obama.

Once again, Trump was right.
The Iranians are not to be trusted.

Yet he trusts Saudi Arabia. And you're OK with this? The blind faith and relentless support for Trump is scary and dangerous. You absolutely should question your leadership. It makes you smart and holds them accountable.

originally posted by: Tardacus
does the U.S. have a mutual defense agreement with Saudi Arabia? if not let them fight their own battles.

I don't believe so. But both you and us make obscene amounts of money from selling them weapons.

Don't over complicate it. We let them get away with murder (literally) because they make us money. Simple.