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this gender subject is not interesting.

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posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:09 AM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

Yes they do. if you have male chromosomes, you are gonna have a unit.


No. That's just not true, there are many instances where people are born without a penis. Having XY Chromosomes does not guaranty will have a Penis or Testicles.
No Unit

Swyer syndrome is a rare disorder characterized by the failure of the sex glands (i.e., testicles or ovaries) to develop. Swyer syndrome is classified as a disorder of sex development (DSD), which encompasses any disorder in which chromosomal, gonadal or anatomic sex development is abnormal. Girls with Swyer syndrome have an XY chromosomal makeup (as boys normally do) instead of an XX chromosomal makeup (as girls normally do).



originally posted by: SaturnFX
Depends on how you view the term gender. there are 2 genders, and I accept sexual dysphoria..aka, wired wrong in the brain compared to the body. Its very rare but not unheard of. Many of the transexuals are this, but not all..not even most (as of today who are trendtrans people)

To be fair, you seem confused also though

I use Google Dictionary. I don't interpret the word myself.

gen·der
ˈjendər/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
"traditional concepts of gender"



originally posted by: SaturnFX
No, its a observed set of behaviors most typically associated with biological differences

This is why the Definition I JUST sourced THREE times says

typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones



originally posted by: SaturnFX
No, they cant. they can be masculine, but we are a sexually dymorphic species..you are male or female based on chromosomes.

No.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Now, there is the new psychological stuff..you can be a woman or man but not necessarily born that way, but going down to the more science behind it...no matter what you do to your genitals, or if you like football or dolls, you are still just the gender you were born into.
No. You are the Sex you were born into.

typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones


originally posted by: SaturnFX
Its difficult when you are trying to discuss both the science and the sociological. There needs to be a new word to seperate what you are discussing...like trying to discuss "the jews"..are you speaking of the people or the religion type thing.

Pure ignorance. Care to enlighten me what the difference of Sex and Gender is?


originally posted by: SaturnFX
Yes it does. It doesn't mean you will be masculine, and you may choose to transition into a woman (social female), but you will always be a man.

No it doesn't. Social constructs BASED on the biological functions do. Hunting, gathering, these all biological male aspects that form the socio-equivalent to societies interpretation of males. What does "Women and Children" getting off a boat that is sinking first have to do with being physically male? Nothing. It's a social construct of place in society. Can someone who is weak and small and nerdy be considered "Not a Man"? Yes, in the vernacular sense that Gender is specifying how men ACT, and not what men ARE.


originally posted by: SaturnFX
like XYP XXA? variety? no..there are only 2 normal makeups. XX and XY..sometimes there are extra bits attached, hermaphrodites are a rare things also, but overall the sweeping vast majority to the tune of what, 98% or so is the norm xx or xy.
There is much more just Hermaphrodites. X0, XXA, XYP, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX, XYY, XYYY, XXXXY, XXXYY, XXYYY are probably not even all of the possible combinations, and this isn't considering MANY conditions where people with NORMAL chromosomes can be born with deformity and no/wrong genitalia.


originally posted by: SaturnFX
Its not a meme from the right. its a scientific understanding of our animalistic species in regards to chromosomes.
There are plenty of transsexual right wingers also (Bruce Jenner, Blaire White to name 2 very public ones).
You cant just dismiss a debate calling it some political thing you also dismiss simply because you are sold on some absolute bullocks being vomited out of gender studies liberal arts course professors who spend their entire days trying to "rip down the patriarchy and gender norms". Sorry..that degree is worthless and the arguments they put forward is absurdly illogical.

I'm not politically reflecting anything. The Scientific community of all people likes clarity, that is why there are two words, Sex and Gender. You are politically attacking "Gender" because it does not reflect your acceptable definition of "Sex".


originally posted by: SaturnFX
strawman to otherise and villianize anyone who would give a counterpoint. lost argument.

I have first hand experience of people treating me like crap and then some of the same ignorant people hitting on me when I was only marginally better looking. What evidence do you have that isn't a strawman? There are comments in this very thread that lean towards acceptance based on physical appearance.


originally posted by: SaturnFX
Gender is not a social construct. If it was, then whats the point of transitioning and spending all the money to appear different? its all just a construct..your argument can only then be reduced down to any trans who wants to change their physical appearance (aka: actually trans) over a social construct must be suffering some mental disorder..after all, ripping apart your body because of a social construct is madness.

Gender is a social construct. Many Trans people that feel anxiety are releaved when being accepted as opposite gender norms, with nothing other than that changing at all. Ones that are not accepted on the other hand often expose themselves to self harm.


edit on 7-12-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:12 AM
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a reply to: reldra

You get a lot of hate for standing up against prejudice and ignorant stigma.

For fighting the "minorities" fight.

People might call you a crazy leftie but I call you awesome, considerate

You go girl



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:25 AM
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-
edit on 7-12-2016 by breakingbs because: nm..



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:29 AM
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a reply to: imjack

Well you can run circles being intentionally obtuse, I won't go as far as to say everyone is born with certain genitals or chromosomes but you either have eggs or sperm it's simple as that.

And in non-asexual organisms females have eggs.
edit on 7-12-2016 by omniEther because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:29 AM
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originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: SaturnFX

Yes they do. if you have male chromosomes, you are gonna have a unit.


No. That's just not true, there are many instances where people are born without a penis. Having XY Chromosomes does not guaranty will have a Penis or Testicles.
No Unit

That is an extremely rare birth defect, not some genetic difference.
its like saying being born human doesn't mean you will have arms...then showing some rare cases of people born without arms.
unfortunate,but not part of the discussion here.



I use Google Dictionary. I don't interpret the word myself.

gen·der
ˈjendər/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
"traditional concepts of gender"


I prefer websters dictionary verses googles:


the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

One sex..Oxford dictionary purposefully adopts "progressive" definitions over traditional definitions. they even have "social justice warriors" in it as someone who promotes progressive views..which is not what a sjw is.
never use oxford dictionary for any political nuanced definition as you will get a partisan definition.
Websters has it accurate, and yes, there is some leeway in it, but it is based on sex..not absent of sex.


I have first hand experience of people treating me like crap and then some of the same ignorant people hitting on me when I was only marginally better looking. What evidence do you have that isn't a strawman? There are comments in this very thread that lean towards acceptance based on physical appearance.

I cut out a bunch of stuff because it depended heavily on your oxford dictionary/google dictionary nonsense definition, so went to this point where it picks back up.
I have had 1st hand experience of Puerto Ricans murdering my brother. 4 of them
Does that mean then that puerto ricans are savage murderers? no.
You had first hand experience of some gigantic a-holes judging you based on looks.
But
If you are saying they hit on you when you were good looking...welcome to humanity luv. we all gotta play that game
You aren't special here.
You are generalizing and pushing that generalizing onto a political spectrum in order to shut down the argument simply because it is different than your views. That, my friend, is the definition of bigotry. (feel free to check that definition via google mind you. bigotry is universal)


Gender is a social construct. Many Trans people that feel anxiety are releaved when being accepted as opposite gender norms,

Yes, acceptance is fine, but if they were worried about acceptance, then they would conform to the gender they were born into to begin with and simply be accepted into that construct.
But they dont
they transition
hense the word Trans
and so they do this regardless of acceptance..usually in opposition to the acceptance simply because their mental/neurological push exceeds the construct and acceptance they are afforded in their normal unaltered body.
That to me isn't a construct, that is a biological norm (or abnormality) they are dealing with...not some society construct.

The definition really screwed you up here. If you take a moment and really consider the oxford definition, you will realize how absurd it makes it, and how it actually diminishes what trans people are dealing with.
If its all a construct, then trans people are simply wrecking their body for a construct...you cant get past this point.

Use websters.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:32 AM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

Care to enlighten me what the difference of Sex and Gender is?

The ignorance of your viewpoint is thrashed by that question.


There needs to be a new word to seperate what you are discussing...


Having two words that 'mean the exact same thing' to you isn't enough?

The distinction between sex and gender is purposeful, and you're only attacking the fact it isn't a SINGLE word.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:42 AM
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originally posted by: imjack
a reply to: SaturnFX

Care to enlighten me what the difference of Sex and Gender is?

The ignorance of your viewpoint is thrashed by that question.


There needs to be a new word to seperate what you are discussing...


Having two words that 'mean the exact same thing' to you isn't enough?

The distinction between sex and gender is purposeful, and you're only attacking the fact it isn't a SINGLE word.


sex is the chromosomes you were born with..X or Y type stuff.
gender is the studied norms that are attributed to the sex overall.
as the defintion states



Gender:
the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

This is a bit "Fluid" of course, typically being the key phrase there. fashion is in no way gendered..that is a society construct.
What I was saying about needs to be a new word is discussing the stuff attached to gender that isn't actually based on sex but instead based on the construct...gender construct, genstruct, who knows.

Its just there are 3 terms here, Sex as just the science, gender as the observation, and the 3rd thing that the progressives are constantly harping on that is attached to gender that most have issue adopting into the term gender.

Thanks for calling me ignorant. in psychological circles, they call that reflection.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:43 AM
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originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: imjack

Well you can run circles being intentionally obtuse, I won't go as far as to say everyone is born with certain genitals or chromosomes but you either have eggs or sperm it's simple as that.

And in non-asexual organisms females have eggs.


I'm not intentionally being obtuse, I'm avoiding such obviously false blanket statements to confide in a narrative.

Not everyone is born fertile. Male infertility can literally be passed down genetically.

Females can be born with defomites that prevent eggs.

Sorry I'm not purposfully being narrow so he can 'understand' me. As far as I know, there aren't 3 types of reproductive organs, just the 2. This doesn't change what Gender means, this doesn't change what Chromosomes mean and it doesn't change what Sex means, but I will point out using them 'interchangeably' is a moronic method to language. He would rather quote different dictionaries than understand the distinguishing difference. And when he does acknowledge there is a difference, he will backtrack on it's meaning(Seems he posted.), even though that wasn't even the original thought.
edit on 7-12-2016 by imjack because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: breakingbs
a reply to: RAY1990

Dude no one cares that it isn't new. Why also do you people act like you are educating people when you talk about Greece or your dog? Greeks were not a bunch of hippies. Nor were they strict masculinists. This line of argument doesn't interest me...



Why start a thread about a topic you clearly don't wish to discuss then?

Am I supposed to participate in a thread with nothing but opinion, substantiated or not?

You people?

You haven't got the foggiest, you don't know me.

Anyways, it's how threads work around here. Points are made and debate flows around said points.

You made the thread, if you're not liking the direction steer it another way. Or post in the rant forum, simple.
edit on 7-12-2016 by RAY1990 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:48 AM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Annee
Another anti-Trans thread - - - complaining about Trans threads.

Bringing the ignorance with it too.


Ignorance on many sides here, but it is through debate and discussion when things are learned (sometimes anyhow)

it can wear you down trying.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:48 AM
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a reply to: RAY1990

No. You're not just telling me how "things work around here." Sorry. You're trying to feed me with leftie talking points and acting like I should have respect.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:51 AM
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originally posted by: imjack

originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: imjack

Well you can run circles being intentionally obtuse, I won't go as far as to say everyone is born with certain genitals or chromosomes but you either have eggs or sperm it's simple as that.

And in non-asexual organisms females have eggs.


I'm not intentionally being obtuse, I'm avoiding such obviously false blanket statements to confide in a narrative.

Not everyone is born fertile. Male infertility can literally be passed down genetically.

Females can be born with defomites that prevent eggs.

Sorry I'm not purposfully being narrow so he can 'understand' me. As far as I know, there aren't 3 types of reproductive organs, just the 2. This doesn't change what Gender means, this doesn't change what Chromosomes mean and it doesn't change what Sex means, but I will point out using them 'interchangeably' is a moronic method to language. He would rather quote different dictionaries than understand the distinguishing difference. And when he does acknowledge there is a difference, he will backtrack on it's meaning(Seems he posted.), even though that wasn't even the original thought.


Well A healthy human should be born with the ability to reproduce. Are you suggesting that all trans people have a deformities or are unhealthy?
edit on 7-12-2016 by omniEther because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:53 AM
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originally posted by: breakingbs
a reply to: RAY1990

No. You're not just telling me how "things work around here." Sorry. You're trying to feed me with leftie talking points and acting like I should have respect.


I think with discussion, the idea of "righty" and "lefty" may diminish into simply discussions about parts of the human condition.
If you decide certain subjects are of a political stance you oppose and therefore by that merit alone aren't worth discussing, you are being at the very least, intellectually lazy...and the whole concept of this site is to deny ignorance..to explore things and entertain ideas without having to subscribe to them.

Know how to debate all sides without sounding like a strawman and you will perhaps feel enlightened. Yeah, we all have our opinions, but that certainly doesn't mean they shouldn't be challenged. If they aren't being challenged, opinions become biases and prejudices.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:54 AM
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a reply to: breakingbs

Here's an idea. Why not come back when you've learned how to speak in coherent sentences and have actually experienced something worth talking about.

Because what you've provided so far as a topic is basically total sh*t.

Sorry, but I don't know how else to say it.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:56 AM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

I'm not interested in "feeling enlightened." I feel fine. And I am not sure how I sounded like a straw man. People knew what I meant.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 01:57 AM
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originally posted by: omniEther
a reply to: imjack

Well A healthy human should be born with the ability to reproduce. Are you suggesting that all trans people have a deformities or are unhealthy?


A healthy person is someone who is in good condition. Having to reproduce is not a way to associate that. I'll just retort, are vasectomies unhealthy?

Do you think the Army considers someone in good condition, but infertile, 'an unhealthy candidate'?

It triggers me what you said even got a star.

Have a nice conversation.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm



My sentences are coherent. What is this bull about this one type of insult. Do you have no balls? Why not just come out and say you think I'm ignorant because that's what this really is. It's not about all this bull that my sentence structure is out of order and poppycock. And you can't ban me for a difference of opinion. Ok???



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 02:01 AM
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a reply to: reldra

So is gender dysphoria a physical disorder in your opinion then?



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 02:02 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Besides, you people (excuse the brevity) never tell anyone where to go, it's just go. If you could give me an example that is not 4chan because the only thing I ever hear is this lazy insult about 4chan, that'd be great.



posted on Dec, 7 2016 @ 02:03 AM
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a reply to: breakingbs

In my original post I did no such thing, deny ignorance man.

I learn plenty from the right and left, then again my fingers are not in my ears nor my head up my arse.

The communists putting fluoride in your water or something? Because you're coming at me with the same "anti brainwashing" rhetoric, don't worry I'm not trying to impurify your precious bodily fluids.



Its OK, its no consequence to me that your mind is made up.



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