Proposal would label bullets sold in Illinois with serial numbers

In the fight against gun violence, Illinois already has some of the most restrictive laws in the U.S. and now they want to make them even tighter. Personally, I see this an another attack on the 2nd. Can't take the guns, so let's make the ammo so expensive, it's almost impossible for the average gun owner to buy it.

Ok, number 1, can you imagine what this could do to the price of ammo? Printing a serial number on each bullet ? I don't know if gun makers will go for this, simply because of that. Sales would plummet and most of us would just go out of state to buy. The amount of paper work alone, will drive many gun shop owners out of business, which I believe is one of their goals.

Which brings up my 2nd point. Gun owners could just cross the border to Indiana, Ky, Missouri, etc and come back with enough to last till the next trip. Many of us already buy ammo online and if this law passes, that number will jump, costing local gun shops more business and costing the state the taxes from those sales. [ I honestly don't believe they think these things out ]
Unless of course, part of the bill would make that illegal and it's honestly something I would not put past them. We already have to have a FOID card to buy guns and ammo, on top of the national background check and this is just one more onerous law against gun owners.
This, in my opinion, is useless. What about the millions of bullets already out there? When would this law start working? When all those millions of bullets have been fired and the stamped ammo starts filtering in. How many dead bodies is that?
What makes these lawmakers so sure the gang bangers are going to follow this law? Because they've so faithfully followed all the others?

Which brings up my 3rd point. Sigh...Why won't these do gooders get it through their head, that criminals don't get their guns and ammo at a dealer? Tracking the bullets to the source of the sale and then on to the the person who bought them, is not going to work. Guns are stolen, ammo is stolen or brought in from other states, so the ones doing the shooting are just going to side step this, like they have every other law.

Useless laws, that don't work and once again, who suffers for it? We the law abiding gun owner.
It's things like this, on top of taxes and other overly zealous laws, that have me seriously considering selling my house and moving back to my home state.

www.fox32chicago.com...

The CEO of AMMO Coding Systems, Matt Harrington, says his technology would allow ammo manufacturers to easily code the millions of bullets they sell every year. After recovering bullets at a shooting, police could enter those codes into a database, learn where the bullets were purchased, then visit the seller to obtain the name of the buyer.

Tuesday’s proposal did not go over well with some gun shop owners, who say massive amounts of paperwork would be required while serious solutions to crime are being ignored. “Don't go after these bullets and this bullet stamping thing that's ridiculous, go after the gang bangers, the people who are let out on the streets from parole,” said Fred Lutger of Freddie Bear Sports. Lutger, owner of a gun shop in Tinley Park, also says keeping track of every ammo purchaser would be an impossible task for gun shop owners. Twenty states are considering similar legislation, but Illinois would be the first to enact it.

Not sure the problem.

Doesnt breach the 2nd as one can still have access to guns.

You just cant randomly shoot people which last time I checked want not a US right.

a reply to: crazyewok

Maybe you didn't read the OP. It explains pretty clearly why it's a dumb idea.

I don't see anyone calling for serial numbers on every percocet or other prescription drug that kills far more people in the US every year than guns.

Since when did criminals worry about such things??.. Also how does illegal shipments become stamped after they leave the factor or come into the state???..

Oh they don't, back to the drawing board...


RA

a reply to: crazyewok

No, it doesn't. It just puts more and more and more restrictions on gun owners. I believe it's an indirect attack. We've discussed this in other threads. TPTB putting the price of ammo out of the range of the average buyer. I'm sure the anti gun crowd will see this as a heroic effort, but what good will it really do? Millions of unstamped rounds already out there and the shooters aren't going to be dumb enough to use the stamped rounds and even if they do find a round with a serial number, it'll be stolen.
So, higher ammo prices, more paper work for the manufacturers, more paper work for the gun shop owners, less ammo sales in state, less taxes taken in from those sales........
And the gang bangers keep dodging the law.

a reply to: crazyewok

Where would the serial number go, on the shell? So someone gets a shell-catcher and they're good to go... this proposal seems stupid for many reasons

& what happens when someone is able to illicitly obtain these bullets? The serial numbers are then useless, other than for investigatory purposes so the authorities could try to trace back who stole them in the first place.

a reply to: crazyewok

This doesn't solve anything except to cause further unemployment when gun shops go out of business and make it more of a stress, for people, infringing the ability of citizens to utilize the 2nd amendment legally.

Tracking the purchaser doesnt necessarily track a perpatrator since most all guns used in crimes like Chicago experiences are stolen as well as the ammo.

The problems you dont see are everywhere if you open your eyes and apply logic.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: crazyewok

Maybe you didn't read the OP. It explains pretty clearly why it's a dumb idea.

I don't see anyone calling for serial numbers on every percocet or other prescription drug that kills far more people in the US every year than guns.

Didnt say it was a great idea.

Just it doesnt breach the 2nd.

a reply to: DAVID64

I'm not seeing a link to actual verbiage of the proposal, so it seems at this point everything is just that--a proposal.

That said, if it only necessitates that all rounds sold in Illinois are numbered, you're not going to see a lot of gun shops go out of business, per se, but instead, you'll see them not selling ammunition anymore, which would suck for those in Illinois intelligent enough to own and practice shooting their firearms.

It's way too easy to purchase ammo online--one of my faves being sgammo dot com (no, I'm not affiliated with the site or company)--but if this legislation says that ammo cannot be sold to IL residents without being serialized, then that raises bigger concerns. Yes, some can go across state lines, and I'm sure that those gun shops near the border would love that, but then what if they consider this and make it illegal to own or transport non-serialized ammunition?

This is big-government tyranny, and opens up a can of worms that makes exercising a right nearly impossible for some people.

So, do they just stamp (or laser-engrave) each bullet, or do they do the casing as well? What if the two get mismatched in the factory, does that cause legal problems for the purchaser of said rounds? What if you want to sell your boxes of ammo because you transfer your firearm to someone else...is there now all kinds of paperwork in order for the sell to happen? What if you just accidentally mix up ammo with a buddy while firing at a range--are you now legally responsible for what that person does with those rounds?

I'll tell ya, registration of most things is just a way for a government to keep track of what people do with their things, and more importantly, to bring in revenue to the government. It should be absolutely no business of a state's government what I purchase with my own money--well, that is, if we lived in a free state. Yes, some registration helps the owner (vehicle registration really helps in proving ownership of stolen vehicles, for example, although I'd rather live with the hassle of proving ownership without having to register), but this is not going to protect the owner at all--in fact, it opens up a lot of cans of legal issues if said ammo is stolen or otherwise used by someone else for illegal activity other than the owner.

This is blatant heavy-handed government, plain and simple. Tiny numbers on bullets will not do a damn thing to curb gun crime in places like Chicago, where many of the already-illegal crimes are committed with guns illegally procured by the criminal. Ammunition will be easily found without serial numbers (they do live on a coast line of a very large lake border by other states and countries), and all this law will do, like the many other ridiculously restrictive laws placed on firearms and their components, is negatively affect law-abiding people to exercise their Constitutionally guaranteed right.

Illinois--Chicago in particular--is a pathetic example of how the 10th Amendment can go terribly awry. I despise that state (and its legislators and majority voters) with a passion.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Didnt say it was a great idea.

Just it doesnt breach the 2nd.

Laws don't have to breach anything to be considered unconstitutional--if the nature of the law makes it ridiculously onerous for an individual to practice a Constitutional right, said law can be deemed unconstitutional just for the very nature of the hurdles that it puts in place.

So, while you're technically right, the overall picture may still lead to lawsuits and the law being struck down if such ridiculous legislation gets passed in the first place.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I'm not seeing a link to actual verbiage of the proposal, so it seems at this point everything is just that--a proposal.

They haven't filed it yet, so yes, it's still a proposal. A very bad one for gun owners.
The only real winner in all this is Ammo Coding Systems, which will sell the equipment to the manufacturers and collect a royalty on each bullet. Billions of them.

a reply to: DAVID64
Seems like a great start on turning the whole state into Chicago.
More gun laws, yay!
They don't work?
More ammunition laws, YAY!

Yep- more restrictions, more money, less freedom.


Bullets used in crimes would just be stolen from homes of law abiding citizens, or brought in from out of state, or be hand reloaded/have their serial removed. (Have you checked the price of ammo online? Cheaper than in stores...)

Also, don't bullets deform when entering a body? With the number of bullets made per day, I'd think that this would make the serial number pretty long, and hard to read once used.

Nothing about this proposal will decrease violence or increase captured criminals- and it doesn't even begin to address the biggest point the anti-gunners cry about- mass shootings. A mass shooter won't care if the bullets are traceable back to them, they're doing it with the intention of being dead after.
If you want fewer people dead from firearms, start teaching firearm safety as a part of the public fool system. Fewer people would be terrified of the damn things that way, and more people would feel empowered to defend themselves.

Of course, that would turn into defending ourselves from tyranny, which is a completely different subject that we're not supposed to talk about since we've got so much freedom.

a reply to: butcherguy

Yeah, they can't be bothered to go after the real criminals, so they just make criminals of all of us. A fine or jail for having an unstamped round, but going after the gangs is too much trouble. It's these laws that look good on the surface [ at least to the anti gun crowd ] but actually do nothing to curb violence that just piss me off.
It's all just smoke and mirrors.

Why stop with bullets? We can put barcodes on every.... wait nvm.

a reply to: DAVID64

Yes, in New Jersey, you can go to jail for possessing a hollowpoint ammo if you are NOT on your way to a shooting range or in your home.
Hollowpoint ammo is safer to use in a defense situation than FMJ.

What is the purpose of a law like that? To endanger innocent people more?

It's an absolutely brilliant idea and one I would support.

However, for some of the reasons other posters have mentioned, it is impractical.

In an ideal world where all thefts were reported and it didn't raise the cost of ammunition, it would go a long way to stopping some people committing crime.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

In an ideal world

Yep.
Not the one that we live in.

a reply to: DAVID64

I hate this State and our ignorant politicians.

They refuse to enforce our current laws, so they want new ones. New laws that will only affect us law abiding folks. Meaning, everything stays the same.

It's a shame the BLM crowd refuses to address our problem. I went to one BLM rally to ask one question. That question was ignored and it showed me what their movement was all about. NOTHING...

originally posted by: lordcomac
Yep- more restrictions, more money, less freedom.

Less Freedom to do what?

Shoot people without getting caught?

Hell as been stated already it wont stop that anyway as there are ways to get round it.