The Conspiracy of the Religious Elite

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

if you want to know the doctrine of the father go read the bible and see what the context says it is. That simple.

It was the teaching of Jesus

Who called God there Father at that time?

Jews.

Hasn't changed.

My lord is Jesus my salvation is in his cross alone nothing else

His teaching was to prepare then for the kingdom on earth.

It is not relevant today and is sealed until he returns.

but you accuse me of only applying certain teachings and books and so on

But you deny 1/3rd of the NT because Paul wrote it.

so who is really apply only what they choose to follow? YOU

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Didn't he ask you to explain it without the use of Paul?

Its not a complicated answer honestly

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

if you want to know the doctrine of the father go read the bible and see what the context says it is. That simple.

It was the teaching of Jesus

Who called God there Father at that time?

Jews.

Hasn't changed.

My lord is Jesus my salvation is in his cross alone nothing else

His teaching was to prepare then for the kingdom on earth.

It is not relevant today and is sealed until he returns.

but you accuse me of only applying certain teachings and books and so on

But you deny 1/3rd of the NT because Paul wrote it.

so who is really apply only what they choose to follow? YOU

A good attitude. Others may wish to throw out portions of the Bible they don't like for whatever reason, and that is their right, and should be respected.

But you do good to believe all of God's word as it is found in the Bible, complete and infallible.

If the others disagree and want to argue the subject let them be.

You do well to believe.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: GailNot

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I am sorry but to have a discussion of the Bible with some one who does not believe the Bible in its entirety is futile and useless endeavor.

It is never useless. Jesus did say not to throw the pearls to the swine, in other words, don't give explanations of truth from God's word to those who don't want it.

But we cannot judge a person's heart. It is only God that can do that. Jesus when on earth did judge people, but he had the authority to do so, and could read their hearts.

We cannot. So to say it is futile to preach to someone that doesn't believe isn't correct. That is wrong.

What you need to do is put yourself in their mindset, and start on common ground. Then go from there. It may take time, sometimes years, maybe even decades, but a person who once had a hardened heart, or an unresponsive one, or an unbelieving one, can change. So as long as the end has not come and we are still alive, everyone has a chance, even the most resistant and stanch resistors of God's word.

Well, that is very gracious of you, Gailnot.
Though, I think somewhere you, Chester, and a myriad of others, have missed when I said I USED to believe the Bible as inerrant and inspired in it's entirety. I know scripture very, very, well. I was a Christian for 20 something years, filled with the Spirit, attending church at almost every opportunity, helping where needed, doing different ministries....I'm no newbie to Christianity. I walked away from it about 3 years ago. Now, the "Bible" will say I have a "heartened heart", or backslidden, (attach whatever label you want).
That's not it, at all. I reached a point as a Christian where things did NOT add up anymore....and a whole bunch of other things (synchronicities. I like to call them) started occurring. Too many things to write here, but yea, I SAW what I had ignored previously. Once you see something as false, you can't go back to believing it's true. Just doesn't happen. The more I dug into the history of the church, the history of Christianity, and on and on....the more I found disturbing.
Waking up to LIES is not having a hardened heart. It's just waking up. I still believe in doing for others, helping those in need, etc. I don't need a book to tell me to be those things. It's already inside me.

You can't have a discussion with me if I don't agree with you? I've asked you to show me the "doctrine of the Father", that you said Jesus spoke of (and don't use Paul's doctrine...just the words of Jesus). You haven't answered that question.
I get it ChesterJohn...you are loyal to Him, because (in your mind and heart) He has delivered you from bondage, blessed you with many things, etc. I get it. I was there at one time, too. Now, I'm here.

I really wasn't inferring any of this to you. In fact I didn't read all of the thread, and wasn't even aware of your discussion in here. So I really wasn't missing anything you said on purpose or directing anything to you. I apologize if you took what I said to the OP personally.

And I respect your understanding and everything you said. I never said I condoned the Churches. In fact the teachings of Christendom and its practices have stumbled many people away from God and the Bible. I am quite aware of this fact, and you have reason to react and behave as you do.

I don't know what Doctrine of the Father you are referring to that you want explained. I guess I will go back and take a look at your other post.

As far as Church history. It is quite bleak and full of badness and apostasy. BUT, if you really new scripture you knew that Jesus already foretold that it would be that way. So the opening of your eyes somewhat to what has happened has disheartened you, that does mean you never fully understood prophecy or Scripture.

a reply to: GailNot


Quite true, no one is judge, not any of us anyway!

As far as not needing the Bible to believe, I don't think that is true.

You learn about God, his name, and his son, and his name, and what they did for humankind in the Bible. Nowhere else. And you really can't have faith in something you don't know about. So yes, the Bible is necessary for faith in Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God. That is why scripture itself says:




(Romans 10:13-15) . . .For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”


edit on 17-8-2016 by GailNot because: (no reason given)


I still don't understand why anyone quotes Paul, to understand Jesus. Why not just quote Jesus?? If Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the light"...then why do you turn to a Pharisee (whom Jesus Himself warned us about) to learn about Jesus?? Paul never even met Jesus!
Do you think a person who's never read the Bible can't truly know God? I was a child and understood there was a God. I didn't need anyone to teach me that. I felt Him, spoke to Him, and knew He was there...even when there was no one to teach me. What about the millions of people who lived before the Bible was even written?? Do you think they had no concept of a Creator? Goodness gracious the indoctrination goes deep. I've had God answer prayer and show up for me BEFORE I even asked to know Jesus. What do you do with that??
Paul is the Savior of Christians. He really is. The church is built on Pauline doctrine. If you can't go on the gospels alone, then you are trying to understand Jesus through the "Paul filter"....it doesn't work. Not only that, but it's the exact thing that causes all the divisions you see in Christendom today. You can't have TWO masters. You have to choose one or the other.

Oh...and JEHOVAH is not the Father of Jesus.




















Matrixsurvivor

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posted on Aug, 17 2016 @ 06:40 PM

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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Erm...

why speak out against Paul, and quote him in the same reply?

a reply to: GailNot

A good attitude. Others may wish to throw out portions of the Bible they don't like for whatever reason, and that is their right, and should be respected.

I've thrown out Pauline doctrine...and I still love Jesus...yet I'm an apostate. LOL....that is so ridiculous. It's a BOOK...that ISN'T infallible, that has a false apostle, wolf in sheep's clothing, misogynistic jerk IN IT...and your "Lord and Savior" Jesus warned you of that...and because some political religious goobers decided Paul was the "main apostle", only cause PAUL said he was, you believe it!! What's even sadder is you can't get past your Messiah warning you of it, because it's IN THE BOOK.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: ChesterJohn

I could tell you outright but it is best you study an compare the versions and come to the conclusion yourself as I did. And then like me you will rejoice and never be misled again by the craftiness of men and their twisted self promoting doctrines.

Really? Saul/Paul was pretty dang crafty and had his own "twisted self promoting doctrine". The man couldn't stop using, "me, myself, I, I , I, MY GOSPEL" to save his life. He tied it all up with a pretty sounding spiritual jargon bow...but yea, he was quite full of himself. He also turned the good news Jesus came to bring into a blood sacrifice instead. Jesus knew he was going to be killed, by the same blood sacrifice cult that ran the temples (ie, the corrupt priesthood).
But Jesus never once said he was a "blood sacrifice". He taught compassion, mercy, love, and most of all...to love the Father. He said "if you've seen ME, you've seen the FATHER". Not, that he WAS the Father in the flesh....but, that the WORDS and DEEDS he did, were the Father's works through him. Sure was a 180 degree flip from the Yahweh in the OT.

So, in response to your comment of "studying and comparing" the versions....you can do that with the Bible alone and find inconsistencies, contradictions, and outright evil from Yahweh and Paul.

I guess this is the post you are referring to as the doctrine of the Father? I don't know. I see no problem in your statement that Jesus and Jehovah God are two separate people. And the false teaching in the Churches of Christendom that teach it are God-dishonoring doctrines and teachings of demons. Perhaps you were a part of these false teachings and came to understand that, and that is commendable. Good for you. Many who say they believe in God still do not understand God's word.

As far as your accusation that God changed from the Hebrew Scriptures to the Greek. I see no validity to the accusation and slander against him.

Nothing has changed his principles and morals are still the same today as they were yesterday.

In the "Old Testament" God stated of himself:

(Exodus 34:6, 7) . . .Jehovah was passing before him and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, 7 showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”

And he has proven true to that. He did not lie. The God of the Old Testament was a very merciful God, and full of compassion, and very slow to anger.

In fact he gave this assurance to the wayward house of Israel:

(Isaiah 1:18-20) “Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah. “Though your sins are like scarlet, They will be made as white as snow; Though they are as red as crimson cloth, They will become like wool. 19 If you show willingness and listen, You will eat the good things of the land. But if you refuse and rebel, You will be devoured by the sword, For the mouth of Jehovah has spoken it.”

There are many cases of his extreme patience and mercy in the Old Testament. For example when he sent Jonah the prophet to the pagan city of Nineveh full of bloodshed and violence. Telling them that if they did not repent of their badness in 40 days they would be destroyed.

And everyone in the city starting with the king listened and repented from their bad ways. Amazing as that sounds it happened. And guess what God did? he had mercy on them and did not destroy them.

In fact he when Jonah got mad that Jehovah didn't destroy Nineveh Jehovah, the patient, and merciful God taught Jonah a very valuable lesson we all can learn from:

(Jonah 4:9-11) . . .At that he said: “I have a right to be angry, so angry that I want to die.” 10 But Jehovah said: “You felt sorry for the bottle-gourd plant, which you did not work for, nor did you make it grow; it grew in one night and perished in one night. 11 Should I not also feel sorry for Ninʹe·veh the great city, in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong, as well as their many animals?”

Notice that Jehovah even took into account the fact that violence was such an intergral part of Ninevah, and they did not have teachers of about the truth of Jehovah God there, he said they didn't even know right from wrong. And he even considered the animals.

Today God can see the same badness everywhere. And he realizes that many people do not even know right from wrong. And he loves them just as he loved the Ninivites. And he has sent his witnesses to warn them of their coming destruction. He has not changed.

You see while Jehovah is indeed a very merciful and patient God and hates killing anyone, even wicked people. He has a limit. When that limit is passed he acts for justice's sake.

In the Old Testament he acted several times against people when they passed his limit. But he always sent his prophets to warn them to turn back from their bad ways.

Jehovah truly is a loving and merciful God. And the Old Testament is full of examples of it.

(Ezekiel 18:32) . . . “‘I do not take any pleasure in the death of anyone,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘So turn back and live.’”

If a person really has read the Bible and concludes that Jehovah was evil to get rid of evil, they themselves have the defect in them, is that not so?

(Deuteronomy 32:4, 5) . . .The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he. They are the ones who have acted corruptly. They are not his children, the defect is their own. They are a crooked and twisted generation!

And when people accuse Jehovah of being wrong and evil when they are the ones that are twisted in their minds, does not just not prove the more so how right Jehovah is? And do not think he does not see the erroneous way people perceive his goodness and twist it. He himself shows you:

(Ezekiel 18:25-28) . . . “‘But you will say: “The way of Jehovah is unjust.” Please listen, O house of Israel! Is it my way that is unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? “‘When someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong and dies because of it, he will die for his own wrongdoing. “‘And when someone wicked turns away from the wickedness that he has committed and begins to do what is just and righteous, he will preserve his own life. When he realizes and turns away from all the transgressions that he has committed, he will surely keep living. He will not die.


Even Jesus, whom you think teaches God was different from the God of the Old Testament told Israel was abandoned by God. And even though he loved them, and wanted to gather them together the way a hen does her chicks, that they were to be destroyed at God's decree:


(Matthew 23:37-39)  “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Erm...

why speak out against Paul, and quote him in the same reply?

Oh man...if I quoted him, then I must have wrote something wrong, lol What did I say that led you to believe that?
I loathe Paul. I really, really, do.

Akragon,

You may have read a post I made that included "Gailnot's" post, as well. I'm still learning how to use the board's functions...sometimes not too great.

a reply to: GailNot

Gailnot,
What do you do with a god that demands blood sacrifice? Is that kind, merciful, and loving?? Have you even read Leviticus?

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Erm...

why speak out against Paul, and quote him in the same reply?

Oh man...if I quoted him, then I must have wrote something wrong, lol What did I say that led you to believe that?
I loathe Paul. I really, really, do.

The reply just before my last one...

You know romans was Paul right?

a reply to: GailNot

Many who say they believe in God still do not understand God's word.

Oh...but, I do understand. More than you know. I just have come to a different conclusion than you. I've sat in many, many, churches...who discard Jesus' teaching (not doctrine) for Paul's doctrine. They also avoid the OT, unless it's a quaint Psalm to support Paul, or they might throw in a verse from the gospels...and then go right back to Paul. Like I said, the churches are BUILT on Pauline doctrine....and yes, I agree with you on this...it is the doctrine of demon(s). Or, an anti-Christ (if you want to use John's term).

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: GailNot

Gailnot,
What do you do with a god that demands blood sacrifice? Is that kind, merciful, and loving?? Have you even read Leviticus?

Yes. It was a very loving provision on God's part. You can learn who he really is, since you asked. If you do so in sincerity then listen.

God created man in perfection. Adam and Eve were perfect from the start. They lost that perfection by sinning. And they had offspring after they had sinned, and thus they passed on the defect of sin to all their progeny, of whom we belong as well.

So just as death came into the world thru sin, thru one man we all have received the consequence of it. Death.

Now in the Garden of Eden God made a way, before he even expelled the man and woman, to bring mankind back to perfection.

So you see God is a God of justice, there is no unrighteousness in him. And he does not lower his standards for anyone. But he also was not going to abandon the offspring of Adam. Thus he said in Genesis 3:15:

(Genesis 3:15) And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

The woman, God's celestial organization was to produce an offspring, known as the Messiah, or Christ that was to be "bruised in the heel." We know that was Jesus when he died on the torture stake for our sins.

So we know that the blood of a perfect person was needed to redeem mankind back from sin, as the first man Adam who sinned and spread sin to all of his offspring was perfect.

The Levitical arrangement of things was just a shadow or type of the reality. For in order to have a relationship with Jehovah one needed to be forgiven of their sins. And thus under that arrangement God kindly made a way for humankind, when he sinned to be forgiven those sins.

Even Able, in the very beginning understood he importance of the offspring of sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins. And he sacrificed the sheep of his herd.

The life of an animal in place of the human was acceptable to God. But did not prevent mankind from continued sin. Now Jesus' perfect life, shed for our sins is able to cover completely all sins, if you exercise faith in it. Just as when Moses raised the copper serpent in the wilderness, and all those who sinned and murmured against God and were bitten by the poisonous serpents had to look upon it and thus keep living.

Do not imagine that God has your moral standards of right and wrong. They are far far higher than yours. Just as he states:

(Isaiah 55:8, 9) . . .“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.  9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.

Everything Jehovah has done, including the ransom he provided has been out of love. And for all mankind's benefit. Even yours and mine. If you were to miss that, would that not be too bad?

It is just as Moses stated:

(Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) . . .I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land . . .

originally posted by: GailNot

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: GailNot

Gailnot,
What do you do with a god that demands blood sacrifice? Is that kind, merciful, and loving?? Have you even read Leviticus?

Yes. It was a very loving provision on God's part. You can learn who he really is, since you asked. If you do so in sincerity then listen.

God created man in perfection. Adam and Eve were perfect from the start. They lost that perfection by sinning. And they had offspring after they had sinned, and thus they passed on the defect of sin to all their progeny, of whom we belong as well.

So just as death came into the world thru sin, thru one man we all have received the consequence of it. Death.

Now in the Garden of Eden God made a way, before he even expelled the man and woman, to bring mankind back to perfection.

So you see God is a God of justice, there is no unrighteousness in him. And he does not lower his standards for anyone. But he also was not going to abandon the offspring of Adam. Thus he said in Genesis 3:15:

(Genesis 3:15) And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

The woman, God's celestial organization was to produce an offspring, known as the Messiah, or Christ that was to be "bruised in the heel." We know that was Jesus when he died on the torture stake for our sins.

So we know that the blood of a perfect person was needed to redeem mankind back from sin, as the first man Adam who sinned and spread sin to all of his offspring was perfect.

The Levitical arrangement of things was just a shadow or type of the reality. For in order to have a relationship with Jehovah one needed to be forgiven of their sins. And thus under that arrangement God kindly made a way for humankind, when he sinned to be forgiven those sins.

Even Able, in the very beginning understood he importance of the offspring of sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins. And he sacrificed the sheep of his herd.

The life of an animal in place of the human was acceptable to God. But did not prevent mankind from continued sin. Now Jesus' perfect life, shed for our sins is able to cover completely all sins, if you exercise faith in it. Just as when Moses raised the copper serpent in the wilderness, and all those who sinned and murmured against God and were bitten by the poisonous serpents had to look upon it and thus keep living.

Do not imagine that God has your moral standards of right and wrong. They are far far higher than yours. Just as he states:

(Isaiah 55:8, 9) . . .“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.  9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.

Everything Jehovah has done, including the ransom he provided has been out of love. And for all mankind's benefit. Even yours and mine. If you were to miss that, would that not be too bad?

It is just as Moses stated:

(Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) . . .I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land . . .

Really Gailnot? Then maybe you should try and put yourself in the place of that cow, goat, or baby Lamb....who were created by your "Jehonah", who did NOTHING wrong, yet were a substitute for your sin and mine... and that merciful, " righteous " Jehovah, commanded those innocent, beautiful, creatures to be terrified before their throats were slit....and you call a God that would command that, righteous,?? Or loving and kind?? Then, maybe you need to go look up the definition of "righteousness", and " love". Why not "mercy" while you're at it. JEHOVAH is none of those things. Jesus was. Your disconnect is astounding.
I don't eat animals. Do you? If you do, then why? Where is your "mercy" for them?

originally posted by: GailNot

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: GailNot

Gailnot,
What do you do with a god that demands blood sacrifice? Is that kind, merciful, and loving?? Have you even read Leviticus?

Yes. It was a very loving provision on God's part. You can learn who he really is, since you asked. If you do so in sincerity then listen.

God created man in perfection. Adam and Eve were perfect from the start. They lost that perfection by sinning. And they had offspring after they had sinned, and thus they passed on the defect of sin to all their progeny, of whom we belong as well.

So just as death came into the world thru sin, thru one man we all have received the consequence of it. Death.

Now in the Garden of Eden God made a way, before he even expelled the man and woman, to bring mankind back to perfection.

So you see God is a God of justice, there is no unrighteousness in him. And he does not lower his standards for anyone. But he also was not going to abandon the offspring of Adam. Thus he said in Genesis 3:15:

(Genesis 3:15) And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

The woman, God's celestial organization was to produce an offspring, known as the Messiah, or Christ that was to be "bruised in the heel." We know that was Jesus when he died on the torture stake for our sins.

So we know that the blood of a perfect person was needed to redeem mankind back from sin, as the first man Adam who sinned and spread sin to all of his offspring was perfect.

The Levitical arrangement of things was just a shadow or type of the reality. For in order to have a relationship with Jehovah one needed to be forgiven of their sins. And thus under that arrangement God kindly made a way for humankind, when he sinned to be forgiven those sins.

Even Able, in the very beginning understood he importance of the offspring of sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins. And he sacrificed the sheep of his herd.

The life of an animal in place of the human was acceptable to God. But did not prevent mankind from continued sin. Now Jesus' perfect life, shed for our sins is able to cover completely all sins, if you exercise faith in it. Just as when Moses raised the copper serpent in the wilderness, and all those who sinned and murmured against God and were bitten by the poisonous serpents had to look upon it and thus keep living.

Do not imagine that God has your moral standards of right and wrong. They are far far higher than yours. Just as he states:

(Isaiah 55:8, 9) . . .“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.  9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.

Everything Jehovah has done, including the ransom he provided has been out of love. And for all mankind's benefit. Even yours and mine. If you were to miss that, would that not be too bad?

It is just as Moses stated:

(Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) . . .I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land . . .

Really Gailnot? Then maybe you should try and put yourself in the place of that cow, goat, or baby Lamb....who were created by your "Jehovah", who did NOTHING wrong, yet were a substitute for your sin and mine... and that merciful, " righteous " Jehovah, commanded those innocent, beautiful, creatures to be terrified before their throats were slit....and you call a God that would command that, righteous,?? Or loving and kind?? Then, maybe you need to go look up the definition of "righteousness", and " love". Why not "mercy" while you're at it. JEHOVAH is none of those things. Jesus was. Your disconnect is astounding.
I don't eat animals. Do you? If you do, then why? Where is your "mercy" for them?

a reply to: GailNot

youtu.be...

There ya go. Jesus said /"the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these". That would be little children. Guess they have a bigger clue than most folks. Watch the video to the end...please.

a reply to: Akragon

Akragon,
I figured out the confusion. My answer to the post you were referring to, started right after the Roman's 10 vs. The Roman's 10 scripture was posted by Gailnot. I was replying to it.
Sorry! I'm still trying to learn how to post other's comments in quotation marks. Sometimes I screw it up, lol.
BELIEVE ME....I would never quote Paul in his defense.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Well its easy enough...

copy the piece you want to quote and then just type [.quote] piece you want to quote[./quote]

Without the periods in the quotes...

so you're a vegan eh?

that must suck...

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

originally posted by: GailNot

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: GailNot

Gailnot,
What do you do with a god that demands blood sacrifice? Is that kind, merciful, and loving?? Have you even read Leviticus?

Yes. It was a very loving provision on God's part. You can learn who he really is, since you asked. If you do so in sincerity then listen.

God created man in perfection. Adam and Eve were perfect from the start. They lost that perfection by sinning. And they had offspring after they had sinned, and thus they passed on the defect of sin to all their progeny, of whom we belong as well.

So just as death came into the world thru sin, thru one man we all have received the consequence of it. Death.

Now in the Garden of Eden God made a way, before he even expelled the man and woman, to bring mankind back to perfection.

So you see God is a God of justice, there is no unrighteousness in him. And he does not lower his standards for anyone. But he also was not going to abandon the offspring of Adam. Thus he said in Genesis 3:15:

(Genesis 3:15) And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”

The woman, God's celestial organization was to produce an offspring, known as the Messiah, or Christ that was to be "bruised in the heel." We know that was Jesus when he died on the torture stake for our sins.

So we know that the blood of a perfect person was needed to redeem mankind back from sin, as the first man Adam who sinned and spread sin to all of his offspring was perfect.

The Levitical arrangement of things was just a shadow or type of the reality. For in order to have a relationship with Jehovah one needed to be forgiven of their sins. And thus under that arrangement God kindly made a way for humankind, when he sinned to be forgiven those sins.

Even Able, in the very beginning understood he importance of the offspring of sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins. And he sacrificed the sheep of his herd.

The life of an animal in place of the human was acceptable to God. But did not prevent mankind from continued sin. Now Jesus' perfect life, shed for our sins is able to cover completely all sins, if you exercise faith in it. Just as when Moses raised the copper serpent in the wilderness, and all those who sinned and murmured against God and were bitten by the poisonous serpents had to look upon it and thus keep living.

Do not imagine that God has your moral standards of right and wrong. They are far far higher than yours. Just as he states:

(Isaiah 55:8, 9) . . .“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.  9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.

Everything Jehovah has done, including the ransom he provided has been out of love. And for all mankind's benefit. Even yours and mine. If you were to miss that, would that not be too bad?

It is just as Moses stated:

(Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) . . .I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land . . .

Really Gailnot? Then maybe you should try and put yourself in the place of that cow, goat, or baby Lamb....who were created by your "Jehovah", who did NOTHING wrong, yet were a substitute for your sin and mine... and that merciful, " righteous " Jehovah, commanded those innocent, beautiful, creatures to be terrified before their throats were slit....and you call a God that would command that, righteous,?? Or loving and kind?? Then, maybe you need to go look up the definition of "righteousness", and " love". Why not "mercy" while you're at it. JEHOVAH is none of those things. Jesus was. Your disconnect is astounding.
I don't eat animals. Do you? If you do, then why? Where is your "mercy" for them?

Jesus already did that for us. He was the innocent sheep lead to the slaughter.

And if you're talking about literal animals, and not the symbolic sheep, Jesus Christ, then it would be pointless. Animals don't have cognizant functions like humans. I think you're attributing to animals feelings and thoughts that don't exist in them. You are anthropomorphizing them.

I don't think about it either when I'm eating a steak at dinner. And I am pretty sure you don't when you eat bacon, and steak, and chicken either.

I do have and care for animals and was raised around a farm. And we treated the animals with respect and love and care. Even the ones we were going to kill to eat. But I have never had a guilty conscious for eating an animal. They sacrifice their lives for humans all over the world every day.

And that anoalogy is soooooooo......out of touch with reality I am being to wonder if you are not mentally ill.

Even the animals that were sacrificed at the alter in the Levitical law were eaten. The priest was given a portion and so was the one doing the sacrifice.

I am sure now you cannot bare to stand to eat meat anymore because of that, because it is wrong to eat meat to survive? Listen to yourself and grow up, please. I say this to make you reason on how absurd you are sounding.