Did God Abandon Us?

originally posted by: Peeple
It does. "The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority. The supreme being."

That is not what I feel when I feel one with everything.

Who else would be interested in testing your personality?

Would a god that is not self aware be interested? I don't think so.

Which part of you feels a need for morals to begin with?

None

Do you believe you have a soul? Would you define that soul as being, or part of the being which is you?

I would not use the word soul. It, like god, have a meaning that doesn't fit with what I am talking about.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
What bothers me is the new atheist fundamentalist, as bad as the religious fundamentalist if not worse, many live in a moral vacuum.

Please take their battery's out

Moral vacuum makes your point moot.

Yet you need to interject on an invalid point to be noticed, what?

You can choose what you wish, act how you like, let me do the same without the preachy atheist apologetics or whatever religion you subscribe to

Their moral vacuum does not make my point moot, to you it may, welcome to your own view, dont tell me what i have to believe
You fundys are all the same, dictators demanding attention

If you take into account simply the way man has been told to behave and how to live life...
And than you look at our behaviours or how we live...

Well it becomes rather plain to see it is us who have abandoned God...

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Raggedyman

Well they're on their own journey. Some go through hell during life. I only have to live with myself and am not responsible for their choices.
What annoys me is this judgmental mindset tough. No clue what they're talking about but screaming louder than their own mind.

Cant blame them really, having to put up with crazed religious people for so long, pity they cant identify their actions mirror those they oppose
Anything, and I mean anything to justify our natural selves, me to sadly

a reply to: daskakik

Good luck on your journey then. Chasing your own tail you won't get far.
You're a walking, talking, thinking, feeling, dreaming pile of atoms, you're a miracle.
God is in you. God is everything.
Morals are natural laws of human interaction, so maybe my question was wrong, kind of like asking a planet which part of it feels the need for gravity. My fault.

Can't see the forest, because of all those trees, eh?
You won

originally posted by: Raggedyman
You can choose what you wish, act how you like, let me do the same without the preachy atheist apologetics or whatever religion you subscribe to

No atheist apologetics here. Sorry if you don't get what I mean.

Their moral vacuum does not make my point moot, to you it may, welcome to your own view, dont tell me what i have to believe
You fundys are all the same, dictators demanding attention

You didn't have to respond to my post. Wouldn't have mattered to me either way.

The point, just maybe you'll get it this time, is that someone with a moral vacuum acts however they want even if when they claim to be religious. They are not going to increase in number because some people can't find it in them to believe in god.

originally posted by: Peeple
Good luck on your journey then. Chasing your own tail you won't get far.

Why wish me luck and then imply that I'm doing it wrong?

You're a walking, talking, thinking, feeling, dreaming pile of atoms, you're a miracle.
God is in you. God is everything.

That may all be true but what you mean by god is not what the word "god" means or how others use it.

I actually don't agree with god is in you god is everything but I know that there is no way for me to explain it, that is why I am only discussing the semantics.

a reply to: daskakik

That's why it's not much fun, nit picking. You know exactly the symbol is not the meaning, for all I care you could call god pitru and your soul rumpft.
We are individuals. It's all the same, but different. That's fine.
You have an experience, you're on your way, I am on mine and in the end we're probably both slightly wrong.
I got nothing to learn from you and vice versa.

Nobody actually ever talked to god in person. So mine is just "as close as those symbols allow me to express it" ,as yours is.

originally posted by: Peeple
You know exactly the symbol is not the meaning, for all I care you could call god pitru and your soul rumpft.

It goes beyond that because the same label might be placed on different things.

You mentioned 7 heavens and what can be found there is not god but, anyone can call them god if they choose to and, I'm sure you care enough about people calling what is found there god since you brought it up.

Nobody actually ever talked to god in person. So mine is just "as close as those symbols allow me to express it" ,as yours is.

Yeah but your version isn't even a person. In one post you have him being unaware and in the other it's dropping pop quizzes.

Seems inconsistent.

a reply to: daskakik

No. A space- and timeless cloud of conscience which is the source of my and your soul is not dropping pop quizzes. More like the force in star wars, but (you guessed it) different.

Like I said imho the soul goes through various stages has to examine and learn about itself, that's the 7 heavens. And I also already said it's mostly about your subconscience which could be taken as if it was a third party or god acting.

Soooo *shrug*

Just found another pretty metaphor McKenna called it Imaginatrix. If you will the most scientific minds already proved the existence of god as they "travelled" to the "beginning of the universe" in their imagination. Ha!

originally posted by: Peeple
No. A space- and timeless cloud of conscience which is the source of my and your soul is not dropping pop quizzes. More like the force in star wars, but (you guessed it) different.

How else is it going to go about "testing your personality?"

Like I said imho the soul goes through various stages has to examine and learn about itself, that's the 7 heavens. And I also already said it's mostly about your subconscience which could be taken as if it was a third party or god acting.

Soooo *shrug*

I'm not talking about your opinion, I'm taking about everyone who might choose to call what is found in those 7 heavens "god". You thought it was important enough to mention that it is not god.

Also, if it is your subconscience, taken as if it was a third party or god acting then it's you and god is not a superior being because you can't be superior to you.

That brings us back to the 7 heavens and the gods there, if they are your subconscience, they are you as well, and if taken to be god acting, it's all the same so why did you bother posting that the things there are not god?

a reply to: daskakik

I edited.
The jedi knights don't get asked if they want to join the dark side they do so because of their actions and lack of emotional hygiene.

People find all kinds of weird things in their own minds and mostly it is their own surpressed urges and wishes and wounds.

I also already said god is everything and chance is god. There is no coincidence. Yet we individuals are just a tiny spot of everything=god=the imaginatrix.

a reply to: Peeple

I saw the edit. I don't even know why you think that proves anything.

The "you keep using that word" meme comes to mind.

What do the jedi nights have to do with you saying that god is interested in testing your personality after having said that it isn't even aware?

a reply to: daskakik

The force is not self aware but it is everywhere. Like that. Our imagination is images our soul is creating. The force is not good or bad, but I sure as hell would prefer to live in a jedi ruled universe than in one of the siths.
Think about it, if you don't get it than... I don't know play KOTOR?

God didn't abandon you.

A made up construct of abstract ideas can't abandon anyone.

The Catholic Church would say that if you're questioning God, it's just a test of your faith.

The rest of us say, why question what doesn't exist ?

originally posted by: Peeple
The force is not self aware but it is everywhere. Like that.

The force might be a good example of what you mean but it isn't a good example of "a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship".

Our imagination is images our soul is creating. The force is not good or bad, but I sure as hell would prefer to live in a jedi ruled universe as in one of the siths.

Seeing that Lucas was supposed to have drawn heavily from Carlos Castaneda's books and being that I was into them when I was younger, I do see the comparison but the warrior's path described there doesn't have a light and dark side. The energy that a worrier gathers is a personal thing and only aides him in getting past the giant eagle without being eaten. It does not bear upon the state of the universe.

He also downplays morality:

This is the reason why I have insisted from the day I found you that impeccability is all that counts. A warrior lives an impeccable life, and that seems to beckon the solution. Why? No one knows.
Impeccability ... is not morality. It only resembles morality. Impeccability is simply the best use of our energy level.

Think about it, if you don't get it than... I don't know play KOTOR?

I get it but when you are done playing KOTOR has the world changed significantly?

Here is what Castaneda said Don Juan had to say about god:

"Our enemy and at the same time our friend is the internal dialogue, our inventory.

Be a warrior; shut off your internal dialogue; make your inventory and then throw it away. The new seers make accurate inventories and then laugh at them.

Without the inventory the assemblage point becomes free." I've talked a great deal about one of the most sturdy aspects of our inventory: our idea of God. That aspect is like a powerful glue that binds the assemblage point to its original position. The old seers as well as the mystics of our world have one thing in common - they have been able to see the mold of man but not understand what it is. Mystics, throughout the centuries, have given us moving accounts of their experiences. But these accounts, however beautiful, are flawed by the gross and despairing mistake of believing the mold of man to be an omnipotent, omniscient creator... The new seers are the only ones who have the sobriety to see the mold of man and understand what it is. What they have come to realize is that the mold of man is not a creator, but the pattern of every human attribute we can think of and some we cannot even conceive.

The mold is our God because we are what it stamps us with and not because it has created us from nothing and made us in its image and likeness. In my opinion to fall on our knees in the presence of the mold of man reeks of arrogance and human self-centeredness. Anyone who sees the mold of man assumes that it is God. That mystical experience is a chance seeing, a one-shot affair that has no significance whatsoever because it is the result of a random movement of the assemblage point. The new seers are indeed the only ones who can pass a fair judgment on this matter, because they have ruled out chance seeings and are capable of seeing the mold of man as often as they please.

They have seen, therefore, that what we call God is a static prototype of humanness without any power. For the mold of man cannot under any circumstances help us by intervening on our behalf, or punish our wrongdoings, or reward us in any way. We are simply the products of its stamp...

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: daskakik

The force is not self aware but it is everywhere. Like that. Our imagination is images our soul is creating. The force is not good or bad, but I sure as hell would prefer to live in a jedi ruled universe than in one of the siths.
Think about it, if you don't get it than... I don't know play KOTOR?

Have you ever noticed that in the universe of Star Wars the objective has never been to eradicate the dark side but to achieve balance between the dark and the light? To a degree, the sith are just as necessary as the Jedi.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Have you ever noticed that in the universe of Star Wars the objective has never been to eradicate the dark side but to achieve balance between the dark and the light? To a degree, the sith are just as necessary as the Jedi.

Yeah, I never could figure out why the Jedi didn't get it. "We have this prophecy that one will come who will bring balance to the force."

And I'm like: "Look around you fools, the jedi and light side have the upper hand. Balance means more dark side, and you think embracing the one prophesied will be a good thing for the Jedi? Wake up you idiots!"

Of course they never listened to me, no matter how much I screamed at the screen. For it had been written. The script had to play out.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: TzarChasm

Have you ever noticed that in the universe of Star Wars the objective has never been to eradicate the dark side but to achieve balance between the dark and the light? To a degree, the sith are just as necessary as the Jedi.

Yeah, I never could figure out why the Jedi didn't get it. "We have this prophecy that one will come who will bring balance to the force."

And I'm like: "Look around you fools, the jedi and light side have the upper hand. Balance means more dark side, and you think embracing the one prophesied will be a good thing for the Jedi? Wake up you idiots!"

Of course they never listened to me, no matter how much I screamed at the screen. For it had been written. The script had to play out.

Darth Vader was the Star Wars version of professor Snape